bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I am mad, but im still pretty.
Today I finally caved and got the wedding attire that I really wanted... then I spent more zen getting a dye pack.. worth it yes? but im still a little sad inside.
Today I finally caved and got the wedding attire that I really wanted... then I spent more zen getting a dye pack.. worth it yes? but im still a little sad inside.
Looks good though bro.
But the face mask? can't it be a tiara or something? please devs.
Wow, Tier 3 Mounts went from $40 to $35. I know this game is a business, but there's no way I'd pay $35 for a mount in a video game. The costume prices are almost as bad, ending up at $8 to $20. And that doesn't include dyes.
Pixel crack would have to be cheap for me to buy at all. Reasonably priced services such as storage and character slots, I'd probably buy (emphasis on reasonably priced).
As a way to thank your customers who have already spent thousands and thousands of dollars / euros / etc on zen, you're going to thank them for their purchases by saying "Hey, everyone ELSE is going to get a discount now, not you." How does this show that you value your customers?
I've spent thousands and thousands of zen on these items already, but I get no rebate? As an open beta player I've tested and bug reported and lost AD and zen to items that were bugged and helped you to fix it. But now, after everything that I've put in, you're going to discount the items I've already purchased? Does this seem backwards to you? Or is it supposed to be a big EFF you to the players that have helped make this game what it is already?
Who do you think you are? You definitely arent working for PWE or Cryptic so expecting things given to you is just ridiculous. You agreed to play under their rules, you agreed to test bugs and make reports. They obviously need money but instead of supporting the game youre here for you are just sapping this nasty ****ing toxin everywhere and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the forums for everyone else.
You people just get on here to complain about EVERYTHING. Just STFU and leave, literally NO ONE will be sad you left.
0
forumz24Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Today I finally caved and got the wedding attire that I really wanted... then I spent more zen getting a dye pack.. worth it yes? but im still a little sad inside.
Not bad, I prefer my custom dye job a bit better I think ;D
I bought Zen for the 1st time today and then saw this news. Yay me. Thanks, awesome. Would be nice if bank/bag space were dropped too. Still insane prices on mounts though, never going to buy one of those.
I actually agree, I bought some of those things recently, and since it's open beta feel it would be fair to be given the Zen that is being dropped in return.
This - just bought the Howler - I could use the 500 ZEN elsewhere that you are now dropping the price... screw the sale, that is how things go, but permanent price drops should affect everyone - SPECIALLY the loyal customers that have already put a lot of money into your game...
Wow, Tier 3 Mounts went from $40 to $35. I know this game is a business, but there's no way I'd pay $35 for a mount in a video game. The costume prices are almost as bad, ending up at $8 to $20. And that doesn't include dyes.
Pixel crack would have to be cheap for me to buy at all. Reasonably priced services such as storage and character slots, I'd probably buy (emphasis on reasonably priced).
You'll get what you want. Everyone will get what they want, if they're patient.
It's never been a question of prices being too high for most players, that is obviously the case. But people with money will spend it, and they will be even more likely to spend it if it means having something that no one else can have - thus the hilarious number of $200 spiders running around everywhere.
Once all the money players have dropped their cash, prices will start to reflect what MOST people are willing to pay for things, they'll drop and drop and drop. They won't keep mounts at $40, because mostly everyone who is willing to pay $40 for a mount has already bought one. Eventually the price will be very agreeable - if the number crunchers feel they can sell 10,000 premium mounts for $10 as opposed to 4000 premium mounts for $20 or 1,500 premium mounts for $30, then $10 will be the price.
What some people forget is that every single item in this game costs Cryptic exactly $0.00 to produce, so the price can be, and will be...anything they want it to be. And what it will be is whatever brings in the most revenue - low, player-friendly prices.
0
inxane2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
What some people forget is that every single item in this game costs Cryptic exactly $0.00 to produce...
Just a small nitpick with this point (the rest of your post I can't/won't argue with); I know what you meant when you typed this, you were thinking of physical materials used for production, of which digital bits obviously aren't comprised.
You weren't thinking about staff and man hours, middleware and third party design tools, license fees, and overhead bills. Digital bytes and bits come with a cost. AAA video game development is a larger, more expensive industry than the movie business. Everything in the game costs something to produce.
_
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
Well, to nitpick back at you a bit, what you are talking about are development costs. I'm talking about production costs. The game is already developed. The mounts, the bags, the dyes, all the accessories are already coded, and in the game. Obviously Cryptic wants to make as much money off of them as possible. So they came on strong with some crazy prices and hit all the deep pockets. And lets' be honest, if someone can afford to spend $200 for a Founder's Package, more power to 'em, I doubt it's taking any food off of anyone's table, and since I like this game I am certainly in favor of Cryptic making a profit off of it.
Now though, post-development, the PRODUCTION cost of these items is 0. It costs them nothing to put the item in your inventory, or to not put the item in your inventory. Soon enough, they'll sell their digital wares at whatever price point proves optimal for bringing in the most revenue from the most customers. Which should be pretty low.
This is a really great start, and I'm thrilled that prices have been lowered, but I still don't think $20 for a fashion item is worth it. Especially if neverwinter creators plan on releasing more. I'd spend $20 on 3-4 fashion items, never a single item unless it was really special and had glowing fairy's and fireflies following me.
I can understand why you want that partial refund, but life is going to be easier and you'll be much happier if you put on your adult pants and understand the Terms of Service you agreed to by accessing their website and downloading their game.
It's remarks like this that should be taken and held up to a mirror.
This is ideally a place of rational discourse and you don't know the ages of people to whom you are talking. Adult pants, indeed.
When getting to this point of your post, anything after may as well have been apple sauce spewing from burbling lips, regardless of validity of any points. Keep things polite, and let's all remember, we're not here to attack each others' opinions. We were asked by the Game Company for our opinions, not to slaughter one anothers' opinions.
The only cogent points here are the consumer feedback so that the *company* can either choose to take those points into consideration or not. It doesn't matter what one consumer thinks of another consumer, really. Ideally we can all play the game completely ignorant of how much or little someone spent on this free to play game, and when they did or did not buy their zen, whether they took advantage of a 15% bonus sale or not.
The bottom line is if they want to act on the feedback in a way which is conducive to maintaining a *long term* relationship with an *ardent* fan base, that's their business. Or not.
It's not the players' mass prerogative to jump down everyone else's throat for giving feedback.
Oh wait, this is the internet. You can't bear to let someone express that opinion without declaring that yours has superiority. Sorry. I'll go back to playing the game now.
The point is, MMO games need a constant stream of revenue in order to continue operating, just like any other business. If we toned down our outrageous sense of entitlement and didn't rush to the forums any time we felt we deserved something because some aspect of the game or payment model didn't cater exclusively to us, it might be a small step in the right direction.
The point is, tick off the people paying your constant stream of revenue and you won't have that constant stream of revenue anymore.
Biting the hand that feeds you is never a good policy, regardless of what legal blather is referenced. Make your paying customers happy and they'll keep on paying happily. Make 'em cranky, and they might just say 'I'm done paying for this' and ride the FTP coattails from then on, if they even keep playing at all.
If it'll make your customers feel more satisfied with their purchases to give them some kind of perk, maybe it'd be a good idea? Whether it's a bit of zen as a thanks, or some keys or whatever. SOMETHING to make a customer feel happier than they are now, is a potential to gain a repeat customer.
0
ghestapwMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The point is, tick off the people paying your constant stream of revenue and you won't have that constant stream of revenue anymore.
So, I'm the first commenter on the thread, the complainer, and I've seen posts that equally hail my post and revile it. But I have noticed one thing:
(very generally) The people who tend to support my pov, that there should be some sort of consideration given to those of us who have spent zen all tend to be the types who have spent money. Those who do not support my pov have mostly been free users, or at least not guardian / founders. Again there are exceptions so please don't jump down my throat about this.
I won't sit here and say how much Zen or how much USD I've spent on the game because I don't think it matters. If I've spent $6 on a single respec, or $500 on mounts, clothing, and dyes, it doesn't matter (the truth is somewhere in between those two numbers). But one thing that's overwhelmingly the case is the people who feel that this move is a bit of a slap in the face are the people who HAVE spent money, who HAVE supported you.
The point is pretty clear to me. Make some sort of peace offering and pacify the people who have proven to be paying customers, or don't and pacify those who 'might' pay money in the future.
Again, I like the idea that Huskarr said as a solution:
give those poor fellas a "discountday survivor" title. Done
It shows your paying members you're at least giving them some sort of consideration, at no cost. Though I'd rather see something like "beta tester" or "Beta Zen user" or something a little less silly sounding. But that's just nitpicking.
Rhev@ghestapw - Co-GL <iTyrant> - ityrantguild.com - Beholder server
Try out my first foundry mission - The Missing Youth - NW-DGX79EG65
I won't sit here and say how much Zen or how much USD I've spent on the game because I don't think it matters. If I've spent $6 on a single respec, or $500 on mounts, clothing, and dyes, it doesn't matter (the truth is somewhere in between those two numbers). But one thing that's overwhelmingly the case is the people who feel that this move is a bit of a slap in the face are the people who HAVE spent money, who HAVE supported you.
Mmhm.
Anyway, I haven't paid a single dime in any MMO, nor do I intend to. I'm not saying the following because of that, mind you. If I thought you were right, I'd say it outright. The thing is, the more money you paid was essentially for getting the stuff you got at the time you got them. If I bought Zen for 500AD a piece, and then the price dropped to 320AD, can I demand a refund?
The aforementioned title could be fun though.
Anyway, to close this up, as for the people who have paid supporting your cause, well, of course they would. The paying members are the ones that can benefit should any consideration be given to your post. It doesn't make you right or wrong, it's obvious that the people who can benefit by what you're offering will support you.
I love it. Now that you've fleeced your loyal, early adopter fanbase you reduce the prices for everyone else. I don't suppose you're willing to give rewards for your loyal customers, similar to Nintendo's ambassador program?
I haven't actually spent any money on the zen store so it's not just that I'm angry about personally being treated this way but it seems like a very underhanded thing to do and I feel sorry for those that have supported NW so far.
They should really refund us the difference in the discounted price of Zen items because it would be so unfair for us after the prices are fixed. True that after they go live, more people around the globe will be playing NeverWinter but they will also lose those players who have been with them, supporting them since day 1. They should really come up with a very very good solution for us the pre-live players. Hope you guys are listening to what we have to say again and not just a hoax...
Anyway, to close this up, as for the people who have paid supporting your cause, well, of course they would. The paying members are the ones that can benefit should any consideration be given to your post. It doesn't make you right or wrong, it's obvious that the people who can benefit by what you're offering will support you.
You (and others) are missing one of the key points here. It's not about caveat emptor, it's not about market price fluctuations, and it's not about the fact that the gaming company took the feedback garnered during beta and acted upon it by reducing the prices.
It's *only* about the fact that it is *cheaper* to *retain* a current loyal customer than it is to *acquire* a new customer. Period.
All this back and forth about 'you got what you paid for' or 'of course people spent money will agree with you' is missing the basics of long term customer management.
Why do you think all these other games are having events this weekend? A friend of mine and I were talking about them tonight over dinner and I pointed out that oh yeah, NW is going into their pre-launch week and going "live" in a week (closing beta). I had to spell it out, of course other games are doing "things." Events. Sending out those emails to my inbox to say "hey come play me, I'm free now too and here's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for free if you do." Far luckier for them to grab me up and re-acquire me as a pre-existing customer of their MMO than me to start playing NW.
Smart companies listen to user feedback to the extent they can afford to do so. They will do or have done a cost analysis of the number of customers they will lose or the amount of zen purchases they will lose or the length of time it will take for people to cool down IF they do not do something to "thank" the early adopters now that prices are being adjusted. If the cost analysis says that they can afford to lose the customers or revenue then they won't do the act.
It's not about right or wrong or nice or terms of service or anything. It's about bottom lines. And once again, I'll say, everyone tossing opinions back at the OP and anyone who supported them is essentially missing the point. The fact that *you* don't think someone is entitled to something for previous zen purchases is utterly irrelevant, unless you are in upper management at the company producing the game.
0
ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
The complaints in this thread are utterly ridiculous.
I wonder if Cryptic found a cure foe cancer, would there be a thread full of complaints that it doesn't cure AIDS too? Lol.
Comments
I am mad, but im still pretty.
Today I finally caved and got the wedding attire that I really wanted... then I spent more zen getting a dye pack.. worth it yes? but im still a little sad inside.
But the face mask? can't it be a tiara or something? please devs.
WARDS. I wanted WARDS discounted. lol.
Pixel crack would have to be cheap for me to buy at all. Reasonably priced services such as storage and character slots, I'd probably buy (emphasis on reasonably priced).
Hey guys.... you're charging too much.
Who do you think you are? You definitely arent working for PWE or Cryptic so expecting things given to you is just ridiculous. You agreed to play under their rules, you agreed to test bugs and make reports. They obviously need money but instead of supporting the game youre here for you are just sapping this nasty ****ing toxin everywhere and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the forums for everyone else.
You people just get on here to complain about EVERYTHING. Just STFU and leave, literally NO ONE will be sad you left.
Not bad, I prefer my custom dye job a bit better I think ;D
This - just bought the Howler - I could use the 500 ZEN elsewhere that you are now dropping the price... screw the sale, that is how things go, but permanent price drops should affect everyone - SPECIALLY the loyal customers that have already put a lot of money into your game...
You'll get what you want. Everyone will get what they want, if they're patient.
It's never been a question of prices being too high for most players, that is obviously the case. But people with money will spend it, and they will be even more likely to spend it if it means having something that no one else can have - thus the hilarious number of $200 spiders running around everywhere.
Once all the money players have dropped their cash, prices will start to reflect what MOST people are willing to pay for things, they'll drop and drop and drop. They won't keep mounts at $40, because mostly everyone who is willing to pay $40 for a mount has already bought one. Eventually the price will be very agreeable - if the number crunchers feel they can sell 10,000 premium mounts for $10 as opposed to 4000 premium mounts for $20 or 1,500 premium mounts for $30, then $10 will be the price.
What some people forget is that every single item in this game costs Cryptic exactly $0.00 to produce, so the price can be, and will be...anything they want it to be. And what it will be is whatever brings in the most revenue - low, player-friendly prices.
Elf Control Wizard - Dragon
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
Just a small nitpick with this point (the rest of your post I can't/won't argue with); I know what you meant when you typed this, you were thinking of physical materials used for production, of which digital bits obviously aren't comprised.
You weren't thinking about staff and man hours, middleware and third party design tools, license fees, and overhead bills. Digital bytes and bits come with a cost. AAA video game development is a larger, more expensive industry than the movie business. Everything in the game costs something to produce.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
Well, to nitpick back at you a bit, what you are talking about are development costs. I'm talking about production costs. The game is already developed. The mounts, the bags, the dyes, all the accessories are already coded, and in the game. Obviously Cryptic wants to make as much money off of them as possible. So they came on strong with some crazy prices and hit all the deep pockets. And lets' be honest, if someone can afford to spend $200 for a Founder's Package, more power to 'em, I doubt it's taking any food off of anyone's table, and since I like this game I am certainly in favor of Cryptic making a profit off of it.
Now though, post-development, the PRODUCTION cost of these items is 0. It costs them nothing to put the item in your inventory, or to not put the item in your inventory. Soon enough, they'll sell their digital wares at whatever price point proves optimal for bringing in the most revenue from the most customers. Which should be pretty low.
Ah OK, makes sense (I'm sure you can tell where the misunderstanding was).
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
It's remarks like this that should be taken and held up to a mirror.
This is ideally a place of rational discourse and you don't know the ages of people to whom you are talking. Adult pants, indeed.
When getting to this point of your post, anything after may as well have been apple sauce spewing from burbling lips, regardless of validity of any points. Keep things polite, and let's all remember, we're not here to attack each others' opinions. We were asked by the Game Company for our opinions, not to slaughter one anothers' opinions.
The only cogent points here are the consumer feedback so that the *company* can either choose to take those points into consideration or not. It doesn't matter what one consumer thinks of another consumer, really. Ideally we can all play the game completely ignorant of how much or little someone spent on this free to play game, and when they did or did not buy their zen, whether they took advantage of a 15% bonus sale or not.
The bottom line is if they want to act on the feedback in a way which is conducive to maintaining a *long term* relationship with an *ardent* fan base, that's their business. Or not.
It's not the players' mass prerogative to jump down everyone else's throat for giving feedback.
Oh wait, this is the internet. You can't bear to let someone express that opinion without declaring that yours has superiority. Sorry. I'll go back to playing the game now.
The point is, tick off the people paying your constant stream of revenue and you won't have that constant stream of revenue anymore.
Biting the hand that feeds you is never a good policy, regardless of what legal blather is referenced. Make your paying customers happy and they'll keep on paying happily. Make 'em cranky, and they might just say 'I'm done paying for this' and ride the FTP coattails from then on, if they even keep playing at all.
If it'll make your customers feel more satisfied with their purchases to give them some kind of perk, maybe it'd be a good idea? Whether it's a bit of zen as a thanks, or some keys or whatever. SOMETHING to make a customer feel happier than they are now, is a potential to gain a repeat customer.
So, I'm the first commenter on the thread, the complainer, and I've seen posts that equally hail my post and revile it. But I have noticed one thing:
(very generally) The people who tend to support my pov, that there should be some sort of consideration given to those of us who have spent zen all tend to be the types who have spent money. Those who do not support my pov have mostly been free users, or at least not guardian / founders. Again there are exceptions so please don't jump down my throat about this.
I won't sit here and say how much Zen or how much USD I've spent on the game because I don't think it matters. If I've spent $6 on a single respec, or $500 on mounts, clothing, and dyes, it doesn't matter (the truth is somewhere in between those two numbers). But one thing that's overwhelmingly the case is the people who feel that this move is a bit of a slap in the face are the people who HAVE spent money, who HAVE supported you.
The point is pretty clear to me. Make some sort of peace offering and pacify the people who have proven to be paying customers, or don't and pacify those who 'might' pay money in the future.
Again, I like the idea that Huskarr said as a solution:
It shows your paying members you're at least giving them some sort of consideration, at no cost. Though I'd rather see something like "beta tester" or "Beta Zen user" or something a little less silly sounding. But that's just nitpicking.
Try out my first foundry mission - The Missing Youth - NW-DGX79EG65
Anyway, I haven't paid a single dime in any MMO, nor do I intend to. I'm not saying the following because of that, mind you. If I thought you were right, I'd say it outright. The thing is, the more money you paid was essentially for getting the stuff you got at the time you got them. If I bought Zen for 500AD a piece, and then the price dropped to 320AD, can I demand a refund?
The aforementioned title could be fun though.
Anyway, to close this up, as for the people who have paid supporting your cause, well, of course they would. The paying members are the ones that can benefit should any consideration be given to your post. It doesn't make you right or wrong, it's obvious that the people who can benefit by what you're offering will support you.
Please reduce Coalescent Ward's zen cost also. Make it 600 zen and you will have a lot more buyers.
I haven't actually spent any money on the zen store so it's not just that I'm angry about personally being treated this way but it seems like a very underhanded thing to do and I feel sorry for those that have supported NW so far.
You (and others) are missing one of the key points here. It's not about caveat emptor, it's not about market price fluctuations, and it's not about the fact that the gaming company took the feedback garnered during beta and acted upon it by reducing the prices.
It's *only* about the fact that it is *cheaper* to *retain* a current loyal customer than it is to *acquire* a new customer. Period.
All this back and forth about 'you got what you paid for' or 'of course people spent money will agree with you' is missing the basics of long term customer management.
Why do you think all these other games are having events this weekend? A friend of mine and I were talking about them tonight over dinner and I pointed out that oh yeah, NW is going into their pre-launch week and going "live" in a week (closing beta). I had to spell it out, of course other games are doing "things." Events. Sending out those emails to my inbox to say "hey come play me, I'm free now too and here's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for free if you do." Far luckier for them to grab me up and re-acquire me as a pre-existing customer of their MMO than me to start playing NW.
Smart companies listen to user feedback to the extent they can afford to do so. They will do or have done a cost analysis of the number of customers they will lose or the amount of zen purchases they will lose or the length of time it will take for people to cool down IF they do not do something to "thank" the early adopters now that prices are being adjusted. If the cost analysis says that they can afford to lose the customers or revenue then they won't do the act.
It's not about right or wrong or nice or terms of service or anything. It's about bottom lines. And once again, I'll say, everyone tossing opinions back at the OP and anyone who supported them is essentially missing the point. The fact that *you* don't think someone is entitled to something for previous zen purchases is utterly irrelevant, unless you are in upper management at the company producing the game.
I wonder if Cryptic found a cure foe cancer, would there be a thread full of complaints that it doesn't cure AIDS too? Lol.