Ignorance in Dungeons

jewt · May 2015

Hello, my name is Jewt and I am a max level Guardian Fighter. I have been noticing some ignorance in dungeons. For example, as a GF, I am the tank. I go first then everyone else follows. Recently, a rogue rushed into a group of mobs and a boss and ends up wiping the entire group and I was kicked for making a comment. I come from a World of Warcraft backround, so i think i know what i am talking about, or maybe i am doing it all wrong. In my opinion, there should be an in-game lesson taught on the roles of each class and the general rules of dungeons. As a tank, it is frustrating seeing other classes rush into battle and I have to clean up there scraps. If you have anything to say to me or about the subject, please do, and thank you.

theroniest87 · May 2015

Honestly I think rogues should go first cause they can daze an entire mob for like 10 seconds but expressing an opinion is not a reason to get kicked! Actually there aren't too many reasons to get kicked lol I think the GF comes after the dazing effect ends to attract the remaining mob but its just what I think!

bluedood · May 2015

It all depends on the group and your tact in whatever statement you made. I play a CW and consistently will run and and do a first strike to get the party started, even with a tank player who jumps in to grab aggro. From the little time I have played NW, it seems to me the TRs like playing at a super fast pace and you either keep up and play at that same pace or try and get ahead of them once the mobs are almost dead. They make an excellent addition to the team.

FWIW, having a WoW background does not make you an MMO expert. I played CoH for 8 years and freely admit understanding of MMOs, but not expertise. It's very easy to get tunnel vision over the holy trinity and not try other formats.

I try to run dungeons each day, message me on live @oox SNAP xoo and see if we can team up.

gmanbigo · May 2015

Just like WoW, this is The Barrens....everywhere! Like the old Vanilla days Barrens. The chat is horrible and now you will have to play when the kiddies are in school. Never a weekend!

alisi1 · May 2015

The problem is that you're playing mod 5 where tanks were not needed, so bad players get bailed out a lot and that allows a culture of crappy group playing. Throw in the fact that most people will automatically agree to a vote kick and you have the perfect recipe for a bad time.

dionchi · May 2015

There are different play styles, some of them more easily adapted to; The people who run through encounters just to get them done and griping about the people who want to pick up loot and explore (time permitting).

And some of them more annoying than others; The people who grab everything in sight for themselves, whether or not it is for their character class leaving nothing for other party members.

But being kicked out of a party, unless that person is completely non functional (*by this I mean disconnected or otherwise not participating in any way and not as buffed or powerful as you think they should be) is just insane in my opinion. Of course everyone wants the encounter to go as quickly and successfully as possible, but not everyone has the same ability to acquire gear nor is everyone the same experience level and who has ever heard of abandoning a warm functioning body in the middle of a battle anyway?

Every little bit helps and if nothing else the less adapt player can be taught or at least fodder diverting a portion of opponents attention.

However with the random queue system Neverwinter uses it's a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot who eventually winds up in a party unless the party is formed prior to initiating the queue, which I think is what the dev's are trying to encourage.

But have some patience with those of us who are more uninitiated than others, the only way to gain experience is to participate and receive feedback.

My opinion ~

jewt · May 2015

bluedood wrote: »

It all depends on the group and your tact in whatever statement you made. I play a CW and consistently will run and and do a first strike to get the party started, even with a tank player who jumps in to grab aggro. From the little time I have played NW, it seems to me the TRs like playing at a super fast pace and you either keep up and play at that same pace or try and get ahead of them once the mobs are almost dead. They make an excellent addition to the team.

FWIW, having a WoW background does not make you an MMO expert. I played CoH for 8 years and freely admit understanding of MMOs, but not expertise. It's very easy to get tunnel vision over the holy trinity and not try other formats.

I try to run dungeons each day, message me on live @oox SNAP xoo and see if we can team up.

Although playing WoW for three years does not make me an expert, no, you know what, it does. I have grinded dungeons in that game for hours on end and all successful runs consisted of this. Tank runs first, followed by DPS once he gets agro, then the healer heals. Its a recipe for extreme success. And you might be mad that i directly compare the two games, but honestly, Neverwinter is WoW on console.

thefabricant · May 2015

jewt wrote: »

Although playing WoW for three years does not make me an expert, no, you know what, it does. I have grinded dungeons in that game for hours on end and all successful runs consisted of this. Tank runs first, followed by DPS once he gets agro, then the healer heals. Its a recipe for extreme success. And you might be mad that i directly compare the two games, but honestly, Neverwinter is WoW on console.

From module 2-5, FYI, NWO is really easy. Until module 6, there is no reason to wait for a tank because a single reasonably geared character can run any team based content, with the exception of MC and VT solo. With an above average geared character, you can literally run from one door in a dungeon to another solo and then clear all the adds and with a super well geared scourge warlock, you can hypothetically kill the last boss in MC and VT solo as well. Yes, in a badly geared group, teamwork is necessary but tbh, in module 4 and 5 the only time groups I ran with worked together is when we were trying to race for speed records in dungeons, for instance, I managed to full clear castle never in 15 minutes with a group. Otherwise, there is no need at all. I am not saying working together is a bad thing, in fact, on the PC version in mod 6 it is essential, but it is hardly necessary in mod 4/5 where anyone can solo the endgame dungeons (Yes, even a gf, if over geared)

I too played both WoW and NWO and they are in no way comparable, in WoW, combat consists of sitting around and watching cooldowns where as in Neverwinter it involves a lot of movement, dodging, kiting etc.

phaseadept · May 2015

To be fair, having WoW raiding experience will be very valuable. Learning the coordinated way to play a dungeon will prevent the epic heartache that's going to arrive when content requires a tank and healer.

People are getting into bad habits, and if the guy wants to share some knowledge let's not knock him for it.

Played WoW, LOTRO, SWG, etc. . . Over a decade on mmo experience. . . But that only matters if people listen.

We are still missing useful tools like which mobs random Agro, threat generation, and actual dps. . . It's good to see experience joining this game.

&#55357;&#56836; there 20 toon + content coming. We should get coordinated

jewt · May 2015

phaseadept wrote: »

To be fair, having WoW raiding experience will be very valuable. Learning the coordinated way to play a dungeon will prevent the epic heartache that's going to arrive when content requires a tank and healer.

People are getting into bad habits, and if the guy wants to share some knowledge let's not knock him for it.

Played WoW, LOTRO, SWG, etc. . . Over a decade on mmo experience. . . But that only matters if people listen.

We are still missing useful tools like which mobs random Agro, threat generation, and actual dps. . . It's good to see experience joining this game.

�� there 20 toon + content coming. We should get coordinated

its great to see someone thinking along the lines of myself, and i 100% agree with you.

jewt · May 2015

thefabricant wrote: »

From module 2-5, FYI, NWO is really easy. Until module 6, there is no reason to wait for a tank because a single reasonably geared character can run any team based content, with the exception of MC and VT solo. With an above average geared character, you can literally run from one door in a dungeon to another solo and then clear all the adds and with a super well geared scourge warlock, you can hypothetically kill the last boss in MC and VT solo as well. Yes, in a badly geared group, teamwork is necessary but tbh, in module 4 and 5 the only time groups I ran with worked together is when we were trying to race for speed records in dungeons, for instance, I managed to full clear castle never in 15 minutes with a group. Otherwise, there is no need at all. I am not saying working together is a bad thing, in fact, on the PC version in mod 6 it is essential, but it is hardly necessary in mod 4/5 where anyone can solo the endgame dungeons (Yes, even a gf, if over geared)

I too played both WoW and NWO and they are in no way comparable, in WoW, combat consists of sitting around and watching cooldowns where as in Neverwinter it involves a lot of movement, dodging, kiting etc.

Having people rush ahead and dying in no way helps the group progress. Its just frustrating seeing how common this trend is and frightens me for the future of this game. And on WoW and NWO being similar, its set in the same fantasy world, the classes are near mirror images, and the gear tiers are nearly the same. I could go on but i dont want to waste any more of my time.

generaldiomedes · June 2015

Get Lunging Strike, you will always be first.

dxlt2 · June 2015

Off topic but WoW and Neverwinter is not set in the same world.
DnD and Blizzards universes are very very different

darkestxshadow · June 2015

you want to talk ingorance in dungeons? ok, ill bite.

Ignorance is when your playing as a hr trapper, you wipe out 95 percent of the mobs in a t2 instance with a gs of under 12k, because you actualy know how to play your class, you get to the boss and bam, your booted for the reason of " not pulling your weight". i had a friend in that instance, who then proceeded to tell me that after it was finished, i topped the dps charts.

ingnorance is judging a player based on gs, as opposed to the skill level of said player. ive seen people with 15k gearscore that cant play their hr as well as i can, yet i get kicked because my gs is less, even though the 15k gs hr has died at least twice compared to my 0.

Its all the COD kids and their holier than thou mentality thats causing ignorance, its also ruining the game.

strictlyevil · June 2015

Don't worry there's hope on the horizon. Black Ops 3 is right around the corner as well as a few other holiday releases. Hopefully it will pull the majority of them away from this game.

Got to be the only time I've ever been happy that a majority of players would actually quit playing an MMO lol.

boscawen · June 2015

darkestxshadow wrote: »

you want to talk ingorance in dungeons? ok, ill bite.

Ignorance is when your playing as a hr trapper, you wipe out 95 percent of the mobs in a t2 instance with a gs of under 12k, because you actualy know how to play your class, you get to the boss and bam, your booted for the reason of " not pulling your weight". i had a friend in that instance, who then proceeded to tell me that after it was finished, i topped the dps charts.

ingnorance is judging a player based on gs, as opposed to the skill level of said player. ive seen people with 15k gearscore that cant play their hr as well as i can, yet i get kicked because my gs is less, even though the 15k gs hr has died at least twice compared to my 0.

Its all the COD kids and their holier than thou mentality thats causing ignorance, its also ruining the game.

I could not agree with you more on this post. I'm also a trapper and 98% of the time were the dominating the DPS chart by beating rogues by millions of points. Jealousy, maybe. Loot kicked, most likely. Ignorant players, definitely.

scalvox · June 2015

jewt wrote: »

Hello, my name is Jewt and I am a max level Guardian Fighter. I have been noticing some ignorance in dungeons. For example, as a GF, I am the tank. I go first then everyone else follows. Recently, a rogue rushed into a group of mobs and a boss and ends up wiping the entire group and I was kicked for making a comment. I come from a World of Warcraft backround, so i think i know what i am talking about, or maybe i am doing it all wrong. In my opinion, there should be an in-game lesson taught on the roles of each class and the general rules of dungeons. As a tank, it is frustrating seeing other classes rush into battle and I have to clean up there scraps. If you have anything to say to me or about the subject, please do, and thank you.

Add Me (Scalvox is my gamertag) if u wanna play in relax.
We are all Italian but someone of us can speak well in english.

Cya.

wanderingkyng · June 2015

darkestxshadow wrote: »

you want to talk ingorance in dungeons? ok, ill bite.

Ignorance is when your playing as a hr trapper, you wipe out 95 percent of the mobs in a t2 instance with a gs of under 12k, because you actualy know how to play your class, you get to the boss and bam, your booted for the reason of " not pulling your weight". i had a friend in that instance, who then proceeded to tell me that after it was finished, i topped the dps charts.

ingnorance is judging a player based on gs, as opposed to the skill level of said player. ive seen people with 15k gearscore that cant play their hr as well as i can, yet i get kicked because my gs is less, even though the 15k gs hr has died at least twice compared to my 0.

Its all the COD kids and their holier than thou mentality thats causing ignorance, its also ruining the game.

I feel you man! Run with me anytime GT: Wandering Kyng - I never kick without giving someone a chance to screw up first (unless they're another Cleric - #clerichate). Sometimes it IS hard to tell who is and who isn't pulling their weight when the problem is a general lack of DPS. It's too bad there is no way to check the Scoreboard part-way through a dungeon. What a useful tool that would be! Am I right? I doubt they would have kicked you if they could have checked the Scoreboard and seen you were topping DPS chart.

waffennacht · June 2015

If all the enemies die quickly why would you care how? As a trapper we can destroy mobs before you even get there, why would we wanna wait for you to do the same slower?
Looks to me success is the only thing that matters, i dont care if ur tank wants to go first, i wanna get it done before i get kicked lol

strictlyevil · June 2015

waffennacht wrote: »

If all the enemies die quickly why would you care how? As a trapper we can destroy mobs before you even get there, why would we wanna wait for you to do the same slower?
Looks to me success is the only thing that matters, i dont care if ur tank wants to go first, i wanna get it done before i get kicked lol

That scenario is only true if you're clearly over geared but that's not the point.

At some point these new console players who have no expertise in how traditional mmo's work are going to get a rude awakening in mod 6 when what you just described goes from being a viable option to a suicide run.

I'd rather take a run a few minutes slower and let the party gather experience on how their class SHOULD be played rather than have the guy who already has it figured out do all the work instead. All we're going to end up with is a bunch of noobs running around not knowing what to do when mod 6 hits because they never had to learn.

Go roll your trapper on PC and let me see you do what you described there. You'd be killed before you could begin your rotation.

wanderingkyng · June 2015

waffennacht wrote: »

If all the enemies die quickly why would you care how? As a trapper we can destroy mobs before you even get there, why would we wanna wait for you to do the same slower?
Looks to me success is the only thing that matters, i dont care if ur tank wants to go first, i wanna get it done before i get kicked lol

You have a good point. I think the OP mentioned playing a tank in WoW where the etiquette is a little different. In this game there are some classes that have CC but they can't use it without also pulling the other enemies so I often see DPS pulling ahead of a tank. I think it's just something traditional MMORPG tanks need to adjust to. I will make a point of saying that SOME DPS create a whole lot of chaos by running in ahead of a tank which usually causes a wipe. Rule of thumb for me is don't pull it if you can't handle it without help.

waffennacht · June 2015

strictlyevil wrote: »

That scenario is only true if you're clearly over geared but that's not the point.

At some point these new console players who have no expertise in how traditional mmo's work are going to get a rude awakening in mod 6 when what you just described goes from being a viable option to a suicide run.

I'd rather take a run a few minutes slower and let the party gather experience on how their class SHOULD be played rather than have the guy who already has it figured out do all the work instead. All we're going to end up with is a bunch of noobs running around not knowing what to do when mod 6 hits because they never had to learn.

Go roll your trapper on PC and let me see you do what you described there. You'd be killed before you could begin your rotation.

Several things. First i sadly dont own a pc

second, i dont expect any mod 6 on xbox any time soon. But moot points, i see what you are saying, but im still curious why change?
I mean if the whole point of failing is to learn, they'll learn more from trying and learning by failing then just following orders.
I am flattered you implied i know what im doing lol. Honestly my question was more serious, im trying to learn so i can do everything to avoid getting kicked.
I mean not enough damage and you get kicked, too far back kick, too far ahead kick, too close to cleric kick.
Im trying to figure exactly what will prevent my Trapper from getting kicked. I really need that 800 gs increase

zizoom · June 2015

waffennacht wrote: »

Several things. First i sadly dont own a pc second, i dont expect any mod 6 on xbox any time soon. But moot points, i see what you are saying, but im still curious why change?
I mean if the whole point of failing is to learn, they'll learn more from trying and learning by failing then just following orders.
I am flattered you implied i know what im doing lol. Honestly my question was more serious, im trying to learn so i can do everything to avoid getting kicked.
I mean not enough damage and you get kicked, too far back kick, too far ahead kick, too close to cleric kick.
Im trying to figure exactly what will prevent my Trapper from getting kicked. I really need that 800 gs increase

Play with 2 friends, never kicked !

But to get back to the initial topic, the only things that can compare wow to this game is part of the background and some classes, but the gameplay is very different. There is no trinity in this game and for most of the high end content you can make dungeons without a Clerci or without a Tank. We did Spellplague Caverns yesterday with 4 people and no Cleric, I was the tank but I played offensive most of the time (only defensive at the end boss) and we one shot the final boss with no death at all during the fight.

What I mean is that DPS > team play. As long as your fights are shorts most of the game is easy. Most of the mobs don't hit hard
(only bosses do), have poor life and are scripted. So as long as you know them, you can avoid almost everything and loose few health. As a tank I felt useless till the boss fights where I had an important role, but I'm sur it could have been done without me ...

Well hope Mod6 will introduce the "trinity" back in this MMO

wanderingkyng · June 2015

waffennacht wrote: »

too close to cleric kick.

Nobody is going to kick you for this... us cleric's definitely want you as close to us, or the other DPS, as possible.

gmanbigo · June 2015

Remember attunements? There has to be a way to weed out the weak. Summer is hear and every nose picking prepubescent child is playing now.

goetzymama · June 2015

Ohh, the old gamer veterans are coming out! I started gaming in the early 90s (when I transitioned from table top to computers). I started with telnet MUDS, played Everquest, played EQOA (playstation mmo back in 2002 and 2003). Then spent years on WoW. I've played just about every type of class possible.

The good Mmos incorporate the need for team strategy and dynamics. NW isn't quite there yet, but there are some good practices to follow. First, tanks (I'm a 60 GF, GWF and CW in NW) take the damage and live long enough to allow the dps to kill the mobs. The healer keeps the tank alive and lives through the hits he/she takes. Now, a tank doesn't necessarily have to be a GF and the healer doesn't necessarily have to be a DC. Yes, some classes have alternate builds and gear that suffice for them to take the "traditional" spot and do well enough to move through the dungeon.

Personally, I do find it annoying when folks dart past me and pull... when we have not decided to do pulls. A fast way to move through creatures is for someone to be the puller (I like clerics, but that's just me) and they do a proximity pull so that there is little threat to overcome by the tank. When the group is close to down, the bait runs off again and replenishes the supply. Other times, the mobs are too fast or hit too hard for that to be a good strategy. Sometimes the defense of the group and the dps output just annihilates the crowd and you really don't have to worry about any strategy... and sometimes, you have to go in hard and the tank has to establish a good threat control.

This is something that I think will be new for the DPS players. Many of them are focused on scoreboard and they want to unload as much damage as fast as possible... but they need to realize, tanks have to continuously provide agro to keep the mobs. At some point, if they are behaving the fool, they can easily pull off the tank and go down faster than butter in h e double hockey sticks.

They aren't used to the hold back and maintain output until the tank says 'let her rip'.

It doesn't matter all that much right now, but with the new content coming out. It might shake up some of the dynamics new players have fallen into the habit of....

** Disclosure: I am not an expert in anything. I am very opinionated. Everything above is just hot air and may or may not be accurate, fair, reasonable or true. Haters go take the hate elsewhere

littlevale · June 2015

darkestxshadow wrote: »

Its all the COD kids and their holier than thou mentality thats causing ignorance, its also ruining the game.

This.

soonergm · June 2015

Unfortunately, I don't think the communication is good enough right now in this game for real teamwork right now.

davidagaldo · June 2015

Of all the games I have experienced, I can only account for two games where players communicated. Can't express enough how it matters. Yeah, sure, its PvEs, but what better place to work on strategy and apply team work for when it matters. COD has good peeps, most lobbies I've been in communicated but often times peeps 'lone-wolf' instead of playing organized.

soonergm · June 2015

I've actually seen people get kicked in this game for talking lol

Ignorance in Dungeons

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