The entire purpose of this thread was to highlight that there is ONE enchant that FAR exceeds the others.
Armor enchants have NEVER been so critical to a build. Look at some of the others and you will see, none of them are "mandatory" for PVP.
Also to someones point about "burst" this, to me, seems ignorant since even just an overload slot - nearly any one you pick - will have some sort of DoT attached to it, or even if you use like GPF or a myriad of enchants within SECONDS a person is max stacks. The "stacking" is just a fallacy to hide behind because in PVP its up near 100% of the time.
GWFs have a feat that does the same thing but its 1% stacks 15 times, that too is up near 100% of the time just from random Dots. Heck even an opponent attacking YOU who gets hit with feythistle will build stacks... So thats just silly to basically say "L2P"
And to the person saying "just buy it" I HAVE it lol. I have a Trans Neg. When the mod first hit I was thankful for it because without it, GWFs would be worthless - nearly like last module.
But now with ARP Resist, the ability to have this extra 30% DR near 100% of the time is MASSIVE and considering Arp Res will increase everyone tanky levels ALOT, combined with how this enchant out performs others by ALOT, it really needs to get toned back....
I could settle for it making opponants instead deal less damage rather than added DR, in reality, NO enchant has 100% uptime and I think that is really where the issue stems from. The only 1 that does is Elven. ALL the others have a CD on their effect and SO DID THIS until this module.
It just got over buffed and before it was worthless BECAUSE it had too long of a downtime. I think it was up only 15 seconds every minute or something.
Well now they went the other way, with near 100% uptime. So do something in the middle.
50% uptime. FULL buff @ 30% DR for X seconds with X seconds CD. Now its balanced. Now it DOES require you to "burst them" when the buff is off.
Heck I would even be in favor of giving the buff a LONGER CD, but working like HA and it buffs your TEAM. This way it wouldn't be beneficial to have EVERYONE using Negation.
Ayroux, nowhere in my reply did I say "Learn to play", I gave a option of how Negation can be defeated and being that you have Rouges in the game where their damage actually ignores a lot of DR in PvP, they do sometimes successfully burst people down with daggers and lashing. Now is this how it's suppose to work, I don't know since Rogues have been a face roll class since the last 3-4 mods.
Negation is here, there is nothing we can do about it until the developers actually figure out where they want these over powered enchants to go in PvP. I for one think that they should put level requirements on these as a player should not see an enchant in gear until 70 (just my opinion.).
But yeah, I agree a lot of these enchats need to be rebalanced.
I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.
Also, while I agree that negation may need some changes, I'm also noticing some positive effects associated with it.
At least, when it involves fights with most of the people having Neg as their enchantments, the average TTK(time-to-kill) factor is greatly increased. Wins or losses in both individual combatants, multiple combatants, and team level do happen, but quite a bit slower than what we've had so far and this brings out more time for players to "try and do something" before kill/death happens.
As long as someone builds a balanced character for PvP, and has negation, the insta-oneshot, twoshot deaths don't seem to happen much anymore. At least, not withstanding certain ridiculously broken powers such as Divine Judgement before the fix, and TR SE. This actually seems to have improved the QOL for a lot of classes, whichm prior to use of negation, were simply too frail.
...
Other armor enchants should be brought up to Negation standards IMO.
Buff the other armor enchantments, even if we have negation enchantments "adjusted" (basically nerfed) like you want the rest armor enchantments would still pale comparing to an usefulness of weapon enchantments. Leave negation alone, buff BARKSHIELD, frostburn, fireburst, bloodtheft, thunderhead and briartwine. And, in the name of the nine gates, please, make buff them so they won't multiproc/pierce through tenacity/DR thanks
Soulforged and Elven Battle seem ok to me to be honest, there are some builds that would shine with it and do just OK against anyone with negation.
oh look, that TR has negation now too lol
I have both. You must be tank DC or may be also pally with amazing tanking and healing capabilities to make a 75s cooldown resurrection at 10k+ hp the same as a TNegation in PvP.
I have gsoul+lathander+legendary blood raven on my gwf and it's light years behind negation free DR on separate layer.
Cause, simple reason, the enemy will be way tankier and when you SF you lose all damage buffs, get healing depression and the enemy is fully buffed and will take you down few seconds ago.
May be if i can get to 20% LS chance with Plifedrinker in place of Pplaguefire it will work better but still, less than a gwf with tnegation and vorpal or terror.
I'm trying this setup and all i can say so far is that negation beats SF+lathander hands down. Negation+lostamauth even more.
Elven battle too is imho better on tank DC. On gwf you already have lots of cc resist/immunity. You need damage mitigation or more surviability and negation is way better than both SF and bark in pvp.
I tend to agree with this; Negation has so far made the QOL for some classes much better in PvP. They could fix things and keep that benefit by toning down the effect of Negation while increasing the DR (only) derived from Tenacity by 10%. That would retain the survivability benefits of Negation, help a lot more people have a better time, and balance out the enchantments.
Makes sense. Transfer some of the DR (that had positive effects) to tenacity, so basically proliferating effects of Negation enchantment to everyone that takes the time and effort to acquire PvP gear for PvP purposes.
Or they could add a component that increases survivability to all armor enchantments, similar to how nearly all weapon enchantments have a component that adds weapon damage in some form. Though that would impact PvE more, I doubt anyone would mind a little more survivability there.
Why not both? I think it'd be interesting if they did both so that:
■ tenacity adds around 10~15% more DR to the current levels
■ Negation functions the same, but increase at max 15% more DR for PHYSICAL DAMAGE only
■ other types of enchants all receive their own distinct 'perks and quirks'
I don't know, I believe that if you see something wrong in any ingame item and think it's overpowered, don't use it. I don't use the lostmauth set, yes I lose like 30% DPS overall, but I don't think using it is right. Same goes to Negation or any other item. Be an example to others and refuse to use it (much like feytouched before the fix), broken things will eventually get fixed.
Yeah, like "certain" TR from "certain" PvP Guild... not using double Weapon enchant weapons on main and off hand because he is an exponent of "fair play", like almost his whole guild... :rolleyes:
I normally dont respond to troll posts. But 1) That SS was taken in ToB not in a real game 2) When we found out he was doing it we immediately stopped it 3) Dont know if people just freak out or actually TEST things anymore but doing that is actually a LOSS of Damage because of the stats/ set bonus and most of all weapon damage.
I tend to agree with this; Negation has so far made the QOL for some classes much better in PvP. They could fix things and keep that benefit by toning down the effect of Negation while increasing the DR (only) derived from Tenacity by 10%. That would retain the survivability benefits of Negation, help a lot more people have a better time, and balance out the enchantments.
Or they could add a component that increases survivability to all armor enchantments, similar to how nearly all weapon enchantments have a component that adds weapon damage in some form. Though that would impact PvE more, I doubt anyone would mind a little more survivability there.
I do agree. I actually think they should REMOVE Tenacity as a stat, provide the FULL benefits as a BASE to your character and then look at dropping the effectiveness of negation down.
I dont like just a pure nerf I would like to see an uptime/downtime like all enchants have
Idk, negation seems to ok to me as long as my opponent isn't running t.negation + t.feytouched. That may make anyone pretty much...mad.
Try this one on for size, person running trans negation + Trans Feytouched, with a buddy running trans Holy avenger and a Trans negation. Not only will it make you/them mad, but I guarantee the group on the receiving end of those enchants won't que for PvP , after getting experiencing them.
I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.
Can anyone confirm that the 30% DR from a full Trans Negation 10stack CANNOT be mitigated with ArP?
This was stated but did someone actually test high enough resist ignore to know this 30%DR cannot be reduced?
Well, i wanted to try it with Terror + Plaguefire to use as Armor debuff on test vs my main char... but my stomach could not handle it at all. Also, you should check better and closer your guildmates... because due "some" (notice quotes) of them, all you are being stained... and not exactly due "double weapon enchantment"...
Yup and unfortunately we get responses like this one....
When the REALITY is that I have not exploited at all, I have even told the DEVs/Akro and now Strum to feel free to pry into my account history, my AD earned, transactions etc. What you will find is that I spent literally thousands in the first ~6-8 months of the game and a few hundred since then, I also used to farm alot of PVE as well, and it wasnt until really ~ mod 2 that I stopped because it was a moot point.
I didnt even know about the resonator issue until after it was on youtube.
So you can keep slandering me for zero reason other than my association with the guild. With ANY guild in NW there are players who you dont necessarily get along with, or dislike or have a "Bad rep" if you will, but that is EVERY guild. If you want to hold yourself above being associated with anyone who has violated TOS in some way shape or form then you will forever remain guildless... Even the self-proclaimed "high and mighty" Svet himself has violated the TOS... So I wouldnt trust him as a source at ALL.
Or we can just acknowledge this is the game we play and support threads and posts that are constructive about the game and hopefully move it in the right direction.
Can anyone confirm that the 30% DR from a full Trans Negation 10stack CANNOT be mitigated with ArP?
This was stated but did someone actually test high enough resist ignore to know this 30%DR cannot be reduced?
It can be mitigated. I made a mistake in my post, and updated it an hour or so ago.
i think the big problem a lot of us see is it seems like TRs and CWs get the all the good mistakes and the rest of us get the hose. if all of us could use double weapon enchants i don't think we'd care that TRs could. and to be honest a lot of us probably wouldn't use double just because as you said it may actually decrease the effectiveness of our particular build. but its the appearance of favoritism that gets most of us up in arms.
Yeah I agree. When I first saw that I flipped out and asked around to figure out who it was and why the heck they were doing it. After talking to players about it, I guess it was tested on the PTR and found to be a decrease in overall damage.
Now I didnt test myself, however DID make sure to get the message across that wasnt cool. We even made a joke about the new mount as well "So now before premades we will have to specify, "no GF bug, no double TR enchant, and no 140% Chicken mounts""
I hope they NEVER allow double weapon enchants as that would just increase the cost divide. I think they have created too much of a monster with gear.
Initially gear was somewhat simple. You had just your gear - which could be bought from the AH or farmed via dungeons. Then they had enchants - which you had to farm and was a pain.
It was simple to play, Alts were easy to make and gear up to a resonable level and the gear difference between a BIS character and a DECENT geared player (like rank 7s + greater) was not HUGE.
however NOW we have 4x Artifacts. 4x Artifact equipment and 5 sets of boons. And its not just that, the IMPACT of those things are MASSIVE. I mean just looking at the % of players damage that comes from Fire Wheel? Or how about LOL set? How about the damage boost from a "Fallen Dragon" set compared to the Arti Weapons?
It completely RUINS the "alt" experience. So if it were up to me, I would remove ALL artifacts (but 1) and ONLY allow you to keep 1 active artifact.
All arti-equipment would be gone (outdated) BECAUSE..... Id make a lvl 70 CN dungeon with NEW CN weapons that were BIS above Arti-equip. Then have Rings/Belt/Neck drop from that CN like was pre-mod 1 that are ATLEAST on par with arti-equip.
Then I would REMOVE the "double" requirement on all enchants - meaning its just RP + Gmops to level them up (maybe increase the # of GMOPS) to make it MUCH easier to atleast get "rank 10s"
And NOW you have a game thats more reasonable cost wise.
Not even sure how I got ranting on this subject but it just frustrates me...
I tested Negation 30%DR - its NOT mitigatable with ArP.
I had 130% Resist ignore from ArP.
Test subject had 80% ArPResist, 10%DR, and 30%DR from Negation = 120%.
My ArP should have wiped both, but it only wiped the 10% DR from defense.
Negation 30%DR is unaffected by ArP - not matter how high.
I tested Negation 30%DR - its NOT mitigatable with ArP.
I had 130% Resist ignore from ArP.
Test subject had 80% ArPResist, 10%DR, and 30%DR from Negation = 120%.
My ArP should have wiped both, but it only wiped the 10% DR from defense.
Negation 30%DR is unaffected by ArP - not matter how high.
My apologies, you're right. I just tested again. Apparently I didn't figure out 59.8 - 29.8 = 30. Sorry, I'll update my post.
I've been playing after the patch, but still I have to question if its such a bad thing, because now, I clearly see even weaker, less skilled people surviving longer than they used to in prior mods, where they'd be basically treated like 1~2 shot material every time. It gives a lot of the frail classes time and opportunity to at least fire off something before death, and I know I sound crazy, but the quality of the combat has -- IMO -- gone up.
I know the questions are usually stacked up against the situation where stuff like DCs, OPs, GFs show up on the same area, especially in Domination matches where player numbers are very few... and I know when two teams like this meet its basically an hour-long match with an eternal stalemate.
...at this very moment, I'd like to again, propose a direction of the "fix" to the situation in the manner of increasing the power and intensity of DEBUFFS as a combat tool, and giving these tools to the classes that are deemed weaker than the rest.
When you think about it, and when you have knowledge about games prior to NW which these developers has made, its pretty evident that the debuffs in NW are generally a lot weaker than those seen in past games like CoH/CoV.
In those past games, debuffs were every bit as powerful as buffs, to an extent that when somebody stacks certain buffs to seem like OP, another precisely built counter-build can stack debuffs on it to suppress the effects down to a zero-sum situation. When somebody stacks his resistances up to 90% to become unkillable, another dedicated debuff-build could neuter it down by -90% and basically make it zero.
This is not so in NW. While there are all sorts of buffs to your character, the debuffs in the game are relatively much fewer, and very weak. For example, in terms of damage you have ways to bring up damage by twice or thrice its base figure, and yet the damage-debuff effects on powers are weak, and takes inhuman amounts of effort to make it work. There are a lot of ways to bring up defense, DR, deflect, etc.. but debuffs to these powers are also very limited. In general, NW has strong buffs, but very weak debuffs.
Bring up the intensity of the debuffs in existance, as well as increase the variety you can choose from, ranging from stuff like stamina debuffs, LS debuffs, heal/tempHP debuffs, etc etc.. I think this would be the right way to go.
CW + Negation +shield + Tenacity + Feytouch = 10x tankier than a GF... and my damage just took a masssssssssive drop. Oh well... back to saving up enough AD so I can swap every single enchant out and pray they fix this horrible DR. Matches last forever.. pally's are the overpowered thing on the planet lol. A pally, DC, and TR or Pally and 2 Tr's = just say GG and move on or you'll be there for like 2-3 hours.
thanks GMC, this update is making me focus a lot more on school and less on this game at least lol
So CW's with Tenacity + Negation are like 70-80% DR 100%, feytouch drops me down 18-20%... they have shield too... yup. GG Guardian Fighters. Lets go protector and be the flower girl at the Paladins wedding
GG Cryptic. Negation + Tenacity is like.... idk... 70-80% reduction in damage... If you don't have a wheel or piercing damage.. you hit like a total pillow
GG Cryptic. Negation + Tenacity is like.... idk... 70-80% reduction in damage... If you don't have a wheel or piercing damage.. you hit like a total pillow
Yeah and imagine playing an HR. You deal negative damage.
so massive burst damage and crits got toned down, some classes got very tanky,right, so its everlasting fights on node
having a paladin and a healer on one node just means go somewhere else and try to bind them with one other class, they can´t even kill a fly together
as mirrorball posted, I think its an improvement for most player since onshooting and twohitting is not that easy any more
sure TR´s will overperform as they did most time by ignoring defence, but even SE doesn´t crit that high since last patch
only thing that should get a fix is T-Negation, Wheel and lostmauth set and some bigger problems will be solved
Comments
Ayroux, nowhere in my reply did I say "Learn to play", I gave a option of how Negation can be defeated and being that you have Rouges in the game where their damage actually ignores a lot of DR in PvP, they do sometimes successfully burst people down with daggers and lashing. Now is this how it's suppose to work, I don't know since Rogues have been a face roll class since the last 3-4 mods.
Negation is here, there is nothing we can do about it until the developers actually figure out where they want these over powered enchants to go in PvP. I for one think that they should put level requirements on these as a player should not see an enchant in gear until 70 (just my opinion.).
But yeah, I agree a lot of these enchats need to be rebalanced.
-Kymos
At least, when it involves fights with most of the people having Neg as their enchantments, the average TTK(time-to-kill) factor is greatly increased. Wins or losses in both individual combatants, multiple combatants, and team level do happen, but quite a bit slower than what we've had so far and this brings out more time for players to "try and do something" before kill/death happens.
As long as someone builds a balanced character for PvP, and has negation, the insta-oneshot, twoshot deaths don't seem to happen much anymore. At least, not withstanding certain ridiculously broken powers such as Divine Judgement before the fix, and TR SE. This actually seems to have improved the QOL for a lot of classes, whichm prior to use of negation, were simply too frail.
...
Other armor enchants should be brought up to Negation standards IMO.
I have both. You must be tank DC or may be also pally with amazing tanking and healing capabilities to make a 75s cooldown resurrection at 10k+ hp the same as a TNegation in PvP.
I have gsoul+lathander+legendary blood raven on my gwf and it's light years behind negation free DR on separate layer.
Cause, simple reason, the enemy will be way tankier and when you SF you lose all damage buffs, get healing depression and the enemy is fully buffed and will take you down few seconds ago.
May be if i can get to 20% LS chance with Plifedrinker in place of Pplaguefire it will work better but still, less than a gwf with tnegation and vorpal or terror.
I'm trying this setup and all i can say so far is that negation beats SF+lathander hands down. Negation+lostamauth even more.
Elven battle too is imho better on tank DC. On gwf you already have lots of cc resist/immunity. You need damage mitigation or more surviability and negation is way better than both SF and bark in pvp.
Makes sense. Transfer some of the DR (that had positive effects) to tenacity, so basically proliferating effects of Negation enchantment to everyone that takes the time and effort to acquire PvP gear for PvP purposes.
Why not both? I think it'd be interesting if they did both so that:
■ tenacity adds around 10~15% more DR to the current levels
■ Negation functions the same, but increase at max 15% more DR for PHYSICAL DAMAGE only
■ other types of enchants all receive their own distinct 'perks and quirks'
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
I normally dont respond to troll posts. But 1) That SS was taken in ToB not in a real game 2) When we found out he was doing it we immediately stopped it 3) Dont know if people just freak out or actually TEST things anymore but doing that is actually a LOSS of Damage because of the stats/ set bonus and most of all weapon damage.
So..... Yeah.....
I do agree. I actually think they should REMOVE Tenacity as a stat, provide the FULL benefits as a BASE to your character and then look at dropping the effectiveness of negation down.
I dont like just a pure nerf I would like to see an uptime/downtime like all enchants have
Try this one on for size, person running trans negation + Trans Feytouched, with a buddy running trans Holy avenger and a Trans negation. Not only will it make you/them mad, but I guarantee the group on the receiving end of those enchants won't que for PvP , after getting experiencing them.
-Kymos
This was stated but did someone actually test high enough resist ignore to know this 30%DR cannot be reduced?
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Yup and unfortunately we get responses like this one....
When the REALITY is that I have not exploited at all, I have even told the DEVs/Akro and now Strum to feel free to pry into my account history, my AD earned, transactions etc. What you will find is that I spent literally thousands in the first ~6-8 months of the game and a few hundred since then, I also used to farm alot of PVE as well, and it wasnt until really ~ mod 2 that I stopped because it was a moot point.
I didnt even know about the resonator issue until after it was on youtube.
So you can keep slandering me for zero reason other than my association with the guild. With ANY guild in NW there are players who you dont necessarily get along with, or dislike or have a "Bad rep" if you will, but that is EVERY guild. If you want to hold yourself above being associated with anyone who has violated TOS in some way shape or form then you will forever remain guildless... Even the self-proclaimed "high and mighty" Svet himself has violated the TOS... So I wouldnt trust him as a source at ALL.
Or we can just acknowledge this is the game we play and support threads and posts that are constructive about the game and hopefully move it in the right direction.
It can be mitigated. I made a mistake in my post, and updated it an hour or so ago.
Yeah I agree. When I first saw that I flipped out and asked around to figure out who it was and why the heck they were doing it. After talking to players about it, I guess it was tested on the PTR and found to be a decrease in overall damage.
Now I didnt test myself, however DID make sure to get the message across that wasnt cool. We even made a joke about the new mount as well "So now before premades we will have to specify, "no GF bug, no double TR enchant, and no 140% Chicken mounts""
I hope they NEVER allow double weapon enchants as that would just increase the cost divide. I think they have created too much of a monster with gear.
Initially gear was somewhat simple. You had just your gear - which could be bought from the AH or farmed via dungeons. Then they had enchants - which you had to farm and was a pain.
It was simple to play, Alts were easy to make and gear up to a resonable level and the gear difference between a BIS character and a DECENT geared player (like rank 7s + greater) was not HUGE.
however NOW we have 4x Artifacts. 4x Artifact equipment and 5 sets of boons. And its not just that, the IMPACT of those things are MASSIVE. I mean just looking at the % of players damage that comes from Fire Wheel? Or how about LOL set? How about the damage boost from a "Fallen Dragon" set compared to the Arti Weapons?
It completely RUINS the "alt" experience. So if it were up to me, I would remove ALL artifacts (but 1) and ONLY allow you to keep 1 active artifact.
All arti-equipment would be gone (outdated) BECAUSE..... Id make a lvl 70 CN dungeon with NEW CN weapons that were BIS above Arti-equip. Then have Rings/Belt/Neck drop from that CN like was pre-mod 1 that are ATLEAST on par with arti-equip.
Then I would REMOVE the "double" requirement on all enchants - meaning its just RP + Gmops to level them up (maybe increase the # of GMOPS) to make it MUCH easier to atleast get "rank 10s"
And NOW you have a game thats more reasonable cost wise.
Not even sure how I got ranting on this subject but it just frustrates me...
I had 130% Resist ignore from ArP.
Test subject had 80% ArPResist, 10%DR, and 30%DR from Negation = 120%.
My ArP should have wiped both, but it only wiped the 10% DR from defense.
Negation 30%DR is unaffected by ArP - not matter how high.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
My apologies, you're right. I just tested again. Apparently I didn't figure out 59.8 - 29.8 = 30. Sorry, I'll update my post.
I know the questions are usually stacked up against the situation where stuff like DCs, OPs, GFs show up on the same area, especially in Domination matches where player numbers are very few... and I know when two teams like this meet its basically an hour-long match with an eternal stalemate.
...at this very moment, I'd like to again, propose a direction of the "fix" to the situation in the manner of increasing the power and intensity of DEBUFFS as a combat tool, and giving these tools to the classes that are deemed weaker than the rest.
When you think about it, and when you have knowledge about games prior to NW which these developers has made, its pretty evident that the debuffs in NW are generally a lot weaker than those seen in past games like CoH/CoV.
In those past games, debuffs were every bit as powerful as buffs, to an extent that when somebody stacks certain buffs to seem like OP, another precisely built counter-build can stack debuffs on it to suppress the effects down to a zero-sum situation. When somebody stacks his resistances up to 90% to become unkillable, another dedicated debuff-build could neuter it down by -90% and basically make it zero.
This is not so in NW. While there are all sorts of buffs to your character, the debuffs in the game are relatively much fewer, and very weak. For example, in terms of damage you have ways to bring up damage by twice or thrice its base figure, and yet the damage-debuff effects on powers are weak, and takes inhuman amounts of effort to make it work. There are a lot of ways to bring up defense, DR, deflect, etc.. but debuffs to these powers are also very limited. In general, NW has strong buffs, but very weak debuffs.
Bring up the intensity of the debuffs in existance, as well as increase the variety you can choose from, ranging from stuff like stamina debuffs, LS debuffs, heal/tempHP debuffs, etc etc.. I think this would be the right way to go.
thanks GMC, this update is making me focus a lot more on school and less on this game at least lol
So CW's with Tenacity + Negation are like 70-80% DR 100%, feytouch drops me down 18-20%... they have shield too... yup. GG Guardian Fighters. Lets go protector and be the flower girl at the Paladins wedding
Yeah and imagine playing an HR. You deal negative damage.
having a paladin and a healer on one node just means go somewhere else and try to bind them with one other class, they can´t even kill a fly together
as mirrorball posted, I think its an improvement for most player since onshooting and twohitting is not that easy any more
sure TR´s will overperform as they did most time by ignoring defence, but even SE doesn´t crit that high since last patch
only thing that should get a fix is T-Negation, Wheel and lostmauth set and some bigger problems will be solved