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Race changes and why they're needed

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  • johnfelljohnfell Banned Users Posts: 408 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    elessym wrote: »
    Blizzard also has ten times the developers and QA that Cryptic does. And you don't know how long it took them to do, either, they could have been working on it for years....

    They have more developers, and the change have more consequences in WoW - and they handled it very well, works great, and added longevity to the game.
    Neverwinter have less developers, but the ripples of the Feature would in turn also be less.
    Since we, and Im just guessing here, dont work for either Cryptic or Blizzard, I won't presume to know how little/much work it would take - all Im saying is that it is, in fact, doable, generally leads to profits and longevity.
    And countless people here would very much like it implemented in Neverwinter, for as countless reasons.

    This is what Im saying and nothing more.
  • vold316vold316 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    johnfell wrote: »
    They have more developers, and the change have more consequences in WoW - and they handled it very well, works great, and added longevity to the game.
    Neverwinter have less developers, but the ripples of the Feature would in turn also be less.
    Since we, and Im just guessing here, dont work for either Cryptic or Blizzard, I won't presume to know how little/much work it would take - all Im saying is that it is, in fact, doable, generally leads to profits and longevity.
    And countless people here would very much like it implemented in Neverwinter, for as countless reasons.

    This is what Im saying and nothing more.

    And there are countless people here that would NOT like it to be implemented, for countless reasons.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "The harder the game, the better."
  • ghostninjahghostninjah Member Posts: 58
    edited June 2013
    A lot of people think a lot of MMO features would be good to add.

    Bottom line is you're still dealing with D&D. There's a lot of D&D missing in the game because it's an MMO.
    I'm not willing to give up much more without a fight.
    This game should have more D&D brought into it, not taken out of it. That's where that argument flounders.


    And while it's easy to claim it doesn't effect people, it does. Claiming it doesn't effect other people is the same excuse the rotten exploiters use to justify cheating.

    Whether or not the game allows certain features I consider blasphemous to the D&D IP effects me viscerally. It may not effect you but it effects me, and to argue that would be akin to dictating my emotions or opinions which is, quite blatantly, only discernible by me. ;)

    you want to know what really effects people in this game? Bots and boss skipping, this game has so many exploits and no one seems to care. They would rather just start exploiting them self and join the cool crowd which is 99% of dnd players.
  • johnfelljohnfell Banned Users Posts: 408 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    vold316 wrote: »
    And there are countless people here that would NOT like it to be implemented, for countless reasons.

    Mirrored reply, next? (There have been a bunch of debates and arguments on the forum in atleast two long threads about this, and the Nay-sayers are always of less numbers, with fewer and less solid arguments.)

    And there are people who dont like nerfs, yet still they are for the good of the game. Or buffs. Your point, without real arguments behind it: moot.

    Dont know if you just jumped into this thread, without reading all of the pages, but if you haven't I recommend it. Saves time in situations like these. :)
  • amphibienamphibien Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    One of the worst things about WoW in the later years was people flip flopping races depending on the Flavor of the Month. Far too ridiculous and silly for a game.
  • johnfelljohnfell Banned Users Posts: 408 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    amphibien wrote: »
    One of the worst things about WoW in the later years was people flip flopping races depending on the Flavor of the Month. Far too ridiculous and silly for a game.

    Really, some people bored with their toons/quests/zones perhaps wanted to have more fun again and switch sides, and liked it there, or not and went back again.... This is "one of the worst things about WoW in the later years"....? Dear lord you must either be on a crusade against this specifically, or be blind to a bunch of bad things about WoW. :P
    Was it really so traumatic for you, so bad? :P
    Why did you even care....?
  • vold316vold316 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    johnfell wrote: »
    Mirrored reply, next? (There have been a bunch of debates and arguments on the forum in atleast two long threads about this, and the Nay-sayers are always of less numbers, with fewer and less solid arguments.)

    And there are people who dont like nerfs, yet still they are for the good of the game. Or buffs. Your point, without real arguments behind it: moot.

    Dont know if you just jumped into this thread, without reading all of the pages, but if you haven't I recommend it. Saves time in situations like these. :)

    I would agree with this in some situations: E.G: If someone creates a halfling guardian fighter and wants to change him to half-orc or another race that suits better the role of a guardian fighter; but with a condition, he would have to modifiy other aspects of his character to fit the new race in Lore and RP and reroll the initial attributes.

    What I would not like to happen is that a half-orc guardian figther, could change permanently his appearance to look like a halfling, without a modification of the initial attributes and lore/rp behind the character.

    Also, if you would have read all the pages of this thread you'd have seen that I have already posted on it (post #124). ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "The harder the game, the better."
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'd love to switch out my wood elf's bonuses for that of the tiefling. I think wood elve's were majorly screwed in their stat bonuses. Take the tiefling, +5% damage and -5% damage taken, and what does the wood elf get in exchange a measly 1% critical chance. I don't want to be a tiefling though, I want to be a wood elf with wood elf bonus stats that don't outright suck as how I look in the game is very important to me. It should be noted that elves in D and D had as a major advantage infervision (absent here), and I forget what else they had but in actual D&D elf stats were totally awesome (in this game they are incredibly terrible).
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The 10% racial resistance to slow effects for the wood elves is a joke. Not only is it a low chance, but it should be for all control effects as well as their damage (slow, lol... that's useless) and wood elves should be good at spotting and avoiding players that are in stealth mode and invisible.
  • kristingravekristingrave Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I would want a racial change, and if enough suggest it PWE would put it in, because in the end PWE as a publisher only care about game profit. That and Cryptic is starting to fall into that line on thought as well. This ended up being more of a MMO then a D&D game. Since I know almost everyone in my guild didn't bother reading the quests/listening to NPCs etc. so when a large majority of the population treats this as just another MMO title. Might as well add in more of the normal MMO items into the cash shop. Or given a Patric analogy from Spongebob.
    "We take all these RPers and drag them all into one server where they can have no racial changes. Then we move everyone else to other servers where people don't give a **** about it. "

    I'm still baffled they didn't have a RP server on here, most latest MMOs have at least one server dedicated to that BS.
    GasMaskSmall-1.png
    Lift me up..
    Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
    Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
  • vaelosvaelos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    • Another player rerolling their race and/or ability score does not affect your "roleplaying" experience
    • The option for race/ability score rerolls being available does not affect your "roleplaying" experience, and you don't have to use them
    • Leveling from 1-60, gearing out a character, making zen purchases for items BOUND to that character all have nothing to do with roleplaying
    • If someone wants to change their race/name/ability score at level 60 and start a new "roleplay" then that should be an option available to them, as a roleplayer, without having to reinvest the time and currency it takes to accomplish the above
    • It is not easy to determine the outcome of the stat descriptions upon rolling ability scores or how racials will play out to your advantage in the long run just from reading the descriptions in character creation. There is information outright missing from the ability score tooltips in character creation. You are only punishing early adopters. I know some players who feel outright screwed over by what they chose, because they were just starting the game. Problems like this contribute to players quitting.
    • Take a poll, I think you'll find the majority will support having these options available to them


    And I don't really have any characters I want to reroll race/as on right now. But it should be an option, even if you want to charge MORE zen for it at least it would be there, but it would be nice as part of the respec token.
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If players are going to be made to feel like a game is D and D based then the stuff we read should give us choices to choose from that impact our characters and how we play as the game progresses. What you choose should matter. So far the only game online that made me feel like I was really playing D and D was D and D Online, the problem with that game was there were few people playing it and the graphics were horrible (my character needed a chiropractor or something). I like it when a thief feels like a thief, when I have to worry about opening locks, finding secret doors and passages, falling into spiked pits if I don't spot them... that sort of stuff makes a game feel more like D and D. In this game I don't bother reading lore or anything, and the text is so small I don't even want to try to read it, plus it doesn't at all affect game play (no choices, no consequences, no clues as to what I can go searching for). All of the equipment is generic, there are no unique items in this game and you can purchase the best of everything in the trading post so you don't have to spend hour after hour farming for the rarest drops that make you feel all special and happy once you have. Leveling is so fast in this game that you don't care about your under level 60 equipment as you out grow all of it in hours. There are also no puzzles or riddles to solve, no feeling of adventure. PvP is kind of fun, but more arenas are needed and classes and races need to be balanced out. To balance them you need a ranking board and a ranking system, and then off of how the characters and races play you strengthen the ones that aren't keeping up with the others until there is no real difference between what classes and races win. A game without ranking boards will never be very PvP balanced.
  • johnfelljohnfell Banned Users Posts: 408 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    vaelos wrote: »
    • Another player rerolling their race and/or ability score does not affect your "roleplaying" experience
    • The option for race/ability score rerolls being available does not affect your "roleplaying" experience, and you don't have to use them
    • Leveling from 1-60, gearing out a character, making zen purchases for items BOUND to that character all have nothing to do with roleplaying
    • If someone wants to change their race/name/ability score at level 60 and start a new "roleplay" then that should be an option available to them, as a roleplayer, without having to reinvest the time and currency it takes to accomplish the above
    • It is not easy to determine the outcome of the stat descriptions upon rolling ability scores or how racials will play out to your advantage in the long run just from reading the descriptions in character creation. There is information outright missing from the ability score tooltips in character creation. You are only punishing early adopters. I know some players who feel outright screwed over by what they chose, because they were just starting the game. Problems like this contribute to players quitting.
    • Take a poll, I think you'll find the majority will support having these options available to them


    And I don't really have any characters I want to reroll race/as on right now. But it should be an option, even if you want to charge MORE zen for it at least it would be there, but it would be nice as part of the respec token.

    This is such a perfect post I wish I could sticky it on the forums.
  • bel1eveeebel1eveee Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I agree.
    Race change is needed.
    I'd pay even 5000 zen if needed.
  • vrtesseractvrtesseract Member Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    IMHO race/class changing is a RP TOOL not a immersion breaker. it is completely up to the rper to prevent it from breaking immersion. I see wood elves playing drow and tieflings playing dragon born, lots of races playing as changling/deva/assimar Halflings trying to be gnomes or small humans. I also see CW playing as varios magic and psionic types, clerics and fighters playing as paladins.

    Right now the game is very very low on races and classes when the race/class you want comes out is it more immersion breaking to reroll your tiefling control wizard as a dragon born warlock ad explain why he/she has to start from scratch again. or just swap over and come up with a nice rp plotline on how your wizard slowly fell to the dark side and made a pact with dragons for power. Yeah its a stretch but I've seen far worse in D&D cannon.

    id also love to see the ability to alter religion. people so change faiths now and again. and sometimes people make the chars thinking sunite sounds cool then suddenly realizes people think they are a prostitute.... or they grab Tymora and realize hmm I got a kinda woodsy character I should have picked sylvanas. not all of rp can be perfectly decided on character creation unless your just remaking old characters.

    Any customization in this game is going to HELP rp not hurt it. even if its not YOUR type of rp. as people have said most of these changes wont even affect your RP you may not even meet these people in rp until after they swapped. even genderswaps can be played off as a cursed item. and all customization surcharges will help the NWO bottom line which means lower prices all around.
  • vaelosvaelos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Race changes and initial ability score roll changes: still needed
  • ghostninjahghostninjah Member Posts: 58
    edited June 2013
    vaelos wrote: »
    • another player rerolling their race and/or ability score does not affect your "roleplaying" experience
    • the option for race/ability score rerolls being available does not affect your "roleplaying" experience, and you don't have to use them
    • leveling from 1-60, gearing out a character, making zen purchases for items bound to that character all have nothing to do with roleplaying
    • if someone wants to change their race/name/ability score at level 60 and start a new "roleplay" then that should be an option available to them, as a roleplayer, without having to reinvest the time and currency it takes to accomplish the above
    • it is not easy to determine the outcome of the stat descriptions upon rolling ability scores or how racials will play out to your advantage in the long run just from reading the descriptions in character creation. There is information outright missing from the ability score tooltips in character creation. You are only punishing early adopters. I know some players who feel outright screwed over by what they chose, because they were just starting the game. Problems like this contribute to players quitting.
    • take a poll, i think you'll find the majority will support having these options available to them


    and i don't really have any characters i want to reroll race/as on right now. But it should be an option, even if you want to charge more zen for it at least it would be there, but it would be nice as part of the respec token.

    yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
  • spelljammer420spelljammer420 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    gunbahaha wrote: »
    I don't like how you off handedly roleplayers with this offensive quote. Allowing people to race change would ruin my immersion and most likely kill the game entirely.

    Bringing up money is also confusing - I think Perfect World are more concerned with building the perfect Dungeons and Dragon MMO than their profits.


    I would just like to point out, that changing race is something accomplished in pen and paper dnd. Usually as some kind of curse or potential gender change also. I would really love cursed items to be implemented especially with a race/gender change.
  • ghostninjahghostninjah Member Posts: 58
    edited June 2013
    This is bs i can get a sex change in real life and a virtual world doesn't even offer it :mad:
  • johnfelljohnfell Banned Users Posts: 408 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    This is bs i can get a sex change in real life and a virtual world doesn't even offer it :mad:

    Be careful lest you gravely offend the rabid, no reason RP-fanbois that get incredibly butt hurt because of your disrespectful race change (that has no effect on them whatsoever) wich clearly completely ruins their immersion and would surely destroy the entire Neverwinter game.
  • elsiedeeelsiedee Member Posts: 0
    edited June 2013
    I've played DnD since I was 5 and don't think having a race change would be ruining immersion.

    If anybody tries to bring in lore, there is a spell in 3rd edition called reincarnate where you move the soul to a different body, thus changing the souls attributes, gender and race to that of the new body, maintaining their own class and skills (Although they suffer negative levels from it in DnD, but restoration can fix that).

    Thus immersion and/or RP objections are unfound.
  • johnfelljohnfell Banned Users Posts: 408 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    elsiedee wrote: »
    I've played DnD since I was 5 and don't think having a race change would be ruining immersion.

    If anybody tries to bring in lore, there is a spell in 3rd edition called reincarnate where you move the soul to a different body, thus changing the souls attributes, gender and race to that of the new body, maintaining their own class and skills (Although they suffer negative levels from it in DnD, but restoration can fix that).

    Thus immersion and/or RP objections are unfound.

    Comepletely true, has been said time and time again in this thread, and glad you joined in - the more voices we get for this, hopefully the unreasonable nay-sayers go quiet and the Devs listen.
  • syllvvsyllvv Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    +1 to race change.
  • maisaanmaisaan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 166
    edited June 2013
    Can someone please explain to me why rpg players wouldn't like it if I could change my race?
  • johnfelljohnfell Banned Users Posts: 408 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    maisaan wrote: »
    Can someone please explain to me why rpg players wouldn't like it if I could change my race?

    I can't explain it in a way that makes any sense to a rational person, but if you go through these pages you'll find a treasure of absurd rants from them. :P
  • elessymelessym Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    maisaan wrote: »
    Can someone please explain to me why rpg players wouldn't like it if I could change my race?

    Because min-max has been an absurd trend in MMORPGs since forever.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • osiabunnyosiabunny Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    sockmunkey wrote: »
    This is how you keep the RP crowd happy. It is not a race change...Its a polymorph spell :D

    It is not roleplayer's fault they don't offer this, Polymorph, the gender change magic item from the TSR D&D and more are all in the lore and would be a good in character excuse for this race change and gender changes.
  • hkiewahkiewa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 379 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    osiabunny wrote: »
    It is not roleplayer's fault they don't offer this, Polymorph, the gender change magic item from the TSR D&D and more are all in the lore and would be a good in character excuse for this race change and gender changes.

    The problem is that race changes without resetting the level to 1 deprive PW of offering "cost free" content
  • vorticanvortican Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    elessym wrote: »
    because min-max has been an absurd trend in mmorpgs since forever.

    my strengths is 2 pts higher than yers so i am bettar
  • revmalrevmal Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Spellplague had that effect on beings and objects, changing form and race (at least one human is refered to as having changed to an elf during the spellplague event), so it would be cannon in the realms to allow race changes and reroll stats.
This discussion has been closed.