So you're saying that changing racial flags on quests would somehow corrupt the character (the character data I'm assuming)? You realize that its incredibly likely its a simple flag on the quest data that allows it to show up when a race is flagged. Your character data simply carries that flag. Quest completion is likely also just a simple 'completed, not completed' flag that has no bearing on your character data at all post completion. I don't understand how a worry that cryptic's character db tables would somehow meltdown. We're not crossing the streams here. We're not dividing by 0. We're not triggering a nullpointerexception. It's race. An afterthought as far as the data is concerned beyond your character model and setting your beginning ability scores.
You wouldn't believe the weird HAMSTER that happens. Just a few weeks ago I had a database blow up because months ago someone changed a collation. Everything was fine until one day replication munged some whitespace and bam, packet size exceeded, thanks for coming.
Moral of the story: trivial changes aren't.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
You wouldn't believe the weird HAMSTER that happens. Just a few weeks ago I had a database blow up because months ago someone changed a collation. Everything was fine until one day replication munged some whitespace and bam, packet size exceeded, thanks for coming.
Moral of the story: trivial changes aren't.
And yet, I just can't accept coding ineptitude as a reason not to add a feature. No more classes or races, adding it might blow up the db. Wait, what?
While we clearly have different philosophies on where we derive our enjoyment from MMOs, it's moot to compare the two. While I can appreciate your philosophy of character finality I just wish you didn't impose it on my philosophy of player choice. Especially since you would be oblivious to any choices made by players.
Please, I am no more imposing my game play philosophy on you than you are imposing yours on me. This is a debate regarding differing game play preferences. As a matter of fact, my game play preference is currently the de facto game play mechanic in the game. In that regard, it would be you who is imposing by attempting to change it.
Regarding your last sentence, I've already explained why I would not be oblivious to choices made by other players. The fact that you insist I would, despite the fact that I've already explained otherwise, confirms the fact that it is you who is guilty of doing to me, exactly that which you are accusing me of doing to you.
And yet, I just can't accept coding ineptitude as a reason not to add a feature. No more classes or races, adding it might blow up the db. Wait, what?
Yeah, you don't understand. I kinda figured.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
I see a couple of ways this could be carried out:
1. You buy a token in the Z-store which allows you to partake in the rebirth trial.
2. The rebirth trial comes in 2 varieties - a solo version and a team version.
3. The solo version has you journey to one of the main zones to talk to a representative of the race you want to become. They set you off on an instanced mission where you have to accomplish some task. Upon completing it, you are given the option of changing to that race. Of course, a mandatory appearance change is involved in this, and the token gets consumed as well,.
4. The team version would basically be you and your team going into some sort of chaos realm. Completing the event allows you to change your race, (if you have a token, which gets consumed in the process). Others w/o the token could also queue, but they don't get the option to change their race. You can RP this as there being side effects to entering the chaos realm.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
But I hate all this reset button stuff to begin with. Magic erasers are horrible and I'm an old school player who advocates for everything short of permament death.
Oh boy, now that's a subject I've been wanting to address! Death in Neverwinter.
You see, I hate death in a game. Death is permanent and dying in Neverwinter or any MMO for that matter is treated like you're changing your shorts; something that happens frequently and the only thought given to the action is so trivial that it's not worth mentioning.
That's not death, that's a defeat and a poorly explained one at that (how did I survive?). If we're going to play with death, death should be respected. I am of the mind if you die and you're going to be resurrected by your party, awesome, that's what playing with a party is for: Keeping you from being plant food. However if they don't resurrect you or you solo and no one is willing to save you, you should be dead if being defeated and not resurrected is what you want to call that result.
And since it is at the moment that way, then please explain how I came back from Kelemvor's Scales? Hrmm? If we die, the penalty for death should be cheating death by being placed under a geis (A quest they must complete) to do something that allows them to live or better yet, put them in a instanced area where they look for a way to escape death and return to life after which they resume where they are.
Yep, I'm a HAMSTER, but I like having a resurrection being explained. Also it puts some value in those self-res scrolls in the zen market since there will always be those who want to skip a penalty or resume what they were doing ASAP.
Otherwise change it to defeated and just put up a message saying a random group of adventurers found you bleeding in a corner and have graciously taken you back to the resident cleric for healing. Because it's just not death.
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daervonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
There are several reasons why a race change would be undesirable, both technical and not, such as:
1) As others have said, there may be complications in the database for characters who have completed racial quests, or other racial-specific aspects of the game.
2) Role-playing elements and immersion.
On the other hand, people should, indeed have the ability to customize their character as they see fit -- up to, and including, race and gender change.
Personally I can see one solution, at least with regards to the race change, that would be easy enough to implement, database-wise, and should satisfy role-player concerns as well...
Make the Race Reset Token actually reset your character to level 1 with regards to everything except inventory, bank, mounts, companions and tradeskills. That way the database is wiped clean, and you don't have to worry about cross-over quests or anything of the sort. At the same time, for role-players or whatever else, it's pretty much the same as if the character was completely deleted and then re-made as the new race. And, for the person actually doing the race-change it means that whatever money, AD, or hours spent farming gear for their character has not been lost.
It's pretty quick to get to 60 in this game as it is, so spending another couple of days as a "penalty" to the race-change should not be a huge issue -- and they get to see the racial quests as well. And once they do get to 60, they can just put on their old gear and be good to go.
It's pretty quick to get to 60 in this game as it is, so spending another couple of days as a "penalty" to the race-change should not be a huge issue -- and they get to see the racial quests as well. And once they do get to 60, they can just put on their old gear and be good to go.
They would end up charging money for this feature, so I can't see any way a penalty should be tacked onto it. If it was something you just did with astral or gold, yeah I could totally see your point of view. When some people would use cash to get the zen to get the reset, just can't get behind that. The only thing I would see as reasonable would be 'this character cannot change races again for X days'.
They will do this feature eventually, it's practically a given. Too many people want it and are willing to pay for it, and eventually they will give in for the greater profit. WoW said for a long time they would resist racial changes as they liked some choices sticking with your character forever...until they realized they could charge 25 bucks and millions would buy it.
Personally, I don't care what people do with their characters as long as it's within legal means, so if Joe Halfling wants to become Joe Halforc...cool, enjoy the new life!
It's ridiculous that half-orcs are more appealing choice for rogues than halflings. It spits completely in the face of the lore!
It is the +2 to DEX that is an issue.
Personally I'd think that of all the racial choices (apart from maybe Dwarfs) Half-Orcs are the one's that should be least likely to have +2DEX. I would have thought that +2 STR and +2CON would seem more reasonable......
Please, I am no more imposing my game play philosophy on you than you are imposing yours on me. This is a debate regarding differing game play preferences. As a matter of fact, my game play preference is currently the de facto game play mechanic in the game. In that regard, it would be you who is imposing by attempting to change it.
Regarding your last sentence, I've already explained why I would not be oblivious to choices made by other players. The fact that you insist I would, despite the fact that I've already explained otherwise, confirms thenfact that it is you who is guilty of doing to me, exactly that which you are accusing me of doing to you.
If you've explained how you wouldn't be oblivious, feel free to restate your reason (as ive been asking in multiple posts), because after rereading your long tired analogies I am unable to discern how you would know if somebody in your group has changed to human from halfelf a month prior. Because you wouldn't, and nothing you've said has been contrary.
And 'de facto' in an mmo is limited, since de facto for neverwinter would mean no factions, no pve raid, no legendary items, no joint foundry projects, and (until next patch) no grey need button for non-matching classes on items. The current state means little.
Lol, I am a software developer by profession, and I state again, coding ineptitude is a poor reason for not adding a feature other products have implemented succesfully.
There are several reasons why a race change would be undesirable, both technical and not, such as:
1) As others have said, there may be complications in the database for characters who have completed racial quests, or other racial-specific aspects of the game.
2) Role-playing elements and immersion.
On the other hand, people should, indeed have the ability to customize their character as they see fit -- up to, and including, race and gender change.
Personally I can see one solution, at least with regards to the race change, that would be easy enough to implement, database-wise, and should satisfy role-player concerns as well...
Make the Race Reset Token actually reset your character to level 1 with regards to everything except inventory, bank, mounts, companions and tradeskills. That way the database is wiped clean, and you don't have to worry about cross-over quests or anything of the sort. At the same time, for role-players or whatever else, it's pretty much the same as if the character was completely deleted and then re-made as the new race. And, for the person actually doing the race-change it means that whatever money, AD, or hours spent farming gear for their character has not been lost.
It's pretty quick to get to 60 in this game as it is, so spending another couple of days as a "penalty" to the race-change should not be a huge issue -- and they get to see the racial quests as well. And once they do get to 60, they can just put on their old gear and be good to go.
Except its also likely that our characters don't haul around the completion information fir each quest we do (and I contest more likely in fact). Its most likely just a series of simple flags that discern available or not, and complete or not. We don't load up our entire quest history every time the character is accessed (at least I would hope not, that's a really dumb business practice).
because after rereading your long tired analogies .
You have re-read yet are unable to understand? If I were you, I would not be so quick to admit that you have "re-read" yet do not understand. Doing so does not reflect well on your reading comprehension skills. I do, however, respect your request for a restatement. I am afraid that I must deny your request, however, because those posts explaining your request are still up and available for you to peruse at your own leisure. They are written in English and require no deciphering expertise. I will, however, give you a brief one paragraph briefing that may help with any attention deficits that creep in while reading "long tired analogies." Here it goes ... ready for it? ...
In MMO's, decision making should be meaningful and have consequences. The ability to "buy" game ending "cheats" that have the ability to wipe away any mistakes you may have made through your 1-60 leveling journey, cheapens the game experience and renders any critical decision making via the 1-60 leveling process totally irrelevant.
I've no doubt this means nothing to you. But there it is, in a nutshell.
You have re-read yet are unable to understand? If I were you, I would not be so quick to admit that you have "re-read" yet do not understand. Doing so does not reflect well on your reading comprehension skills. I do, however, respect your request for a restatement. I am afraid though that I must deny your request because the posts explaining your request are still up and available for you to peruse at your leisure. They are written in English and require no deciphering expertise. I will, however, give you a brief one sentence clue that may help you with any attention deficits that creep in while reading "long tired analogies." Here it goes ... ready for it? ...
... it cheapens the game experience and renders any critical decision making via the 1-60 leveling process totally irrelevant.
I've no doubt that this means nothing to you. But there it is, in a nutshell.
That doesn't provide how you would know somebody participated in a race change, that is just how you view the process. So, tell me, how would you not be oblivious to a person participating in one. Would they be a gigantic, all green version of themselves. Surely you imagine some marker to denote that person as cheapening your experience.
Your character finality remains unchanged. And as far as you knew, everybody else finality would be intact aswell.
And what decisions! This game is linear! There are no faction choices or defining class features via race!. The only impact on your 1-60 is negligible ability score stats and an extra kill quest in a random zone.
That doesn't provide how you would know somebody participated in a race change, that is just how you view the process. So, tell me, how would you not be oblivious to a person participating in one. Would they be a gigantic, all green version of themselves. Surely you imagine some marker to denote that person as cheapening your experience.
Your character finality remains unchanged. And as far as you knew, everybody else finality would be intact aswell.
And what decisions! This game is linear! There are no faction choices or defining class features via race!. The only impact on your 1-60 is negligible ability score stats and an extra kill quest in a random zone.
You seem unable to grasp the point. I'll try to explain it from a different point of view.
We meet at end game in a PvP or PvE setting. I am consistently defeating you, or performing better you. You are frustrated. So you inspect me and discover that I am geared to the hilt with the best epic purple everything in the game. You do not know that i "bought" an end game level 60 character fully geared with the best armor, weapons, fastest mount, etc., in the game?
Mind you, the fact I bought my end game doesn't provide how you would know that I participated in "buying" my end game everything. You may think so, but that is just how you view the process. So, tell me, how would you not be oblivious to a person having done so. Surely, you must be imagining some marker to denote that person as cheapening your experience.
Your character finality remains unchanged. And as far as you knew, everybody else finality would be intact aswell.
Would this cheapen your game experience?
Sometimes looking at the person in the mirror, answers all of your questions.
You seem unable to grasp the point. I'll try to explain it from a different point of view.
We meet at end game in a PvP setting. I am consistently defeating you. You are frustrated. So you inspect me and discover that I am geared to the hilt with the best epic purple everything in the game. You do not know that i "bought" a level 60 character fully geared with the best armor, weapons, fastest mount, etc., in the game?
Does that matter to you?
Mind you, the fact I bought my end game doesn't provide how you would know that I participated in "buying" my end game everything. You may think so, but that is just how you view the process. So, tell me, how would you not be oblivious to a person having done so. Surely, you must be imagining some marker to denote that person as cheapening your experience.
Your character finality remains unchanged. And as far as you knew, everybody else finality would be intact aswell.
Sometimes looking at the person in the mirror, answers all of your questions.
Side stepping that you can currently buy full sets of purples in game currently, that is a straw man. Race choice has a minute effect on character performance, and is largely cosmetic in nature. Comparing it to a competitive setting is a poor comparison.
Its true my character finality is unchanged, but In your analogy are you contending that gear is a feature of finality instead of development? Its an irrelevant analogy, gear is not final. Their race (the finality being contended) in that pvp comparison would not tip the balance of power. They would just look better doing it to some peoples tastes.
Edit:and it's not that I'm not grasping the point, I just can't accept why race is on a pedestal of 'critical choices' when features that actually shape your characters role/performance/playstyle are given retraining tokens.
Not a good one if you don't understand the possible unintended consequences of changing something that was assumed would never be changed.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Side stepping that you can currently buy full sets of purples in game currently, that is a straw man. Race choice has a minute effect on character performance, and is largely cosmetic in nature. Comparing it to a competitive setting is a poor comparison.
Its true my character finality is unchanged, but In your analogy are you contending that gear is a feature of finality instead of development? Its an irrelevant analogy, gear is not final. Their race (the finality being contended) in that pvp comparison would not tip the balance of power. They would just look better doing it to some people tastes.
It IS the same. Yes, I've exaggerated the analogy in order to make a point. That does not detract from the fact that in both instances a player is skirting critical decision making that should occur through out the 1-60 leveling process, and replacing it with "buying" an end game "cheat" that will make everything alright. You chose to not see the parallels because it does not fit your argument. but it is glaringly obvious to all who look at it from an objective point of view.
Again, I am not trying to convince you of looking at this objectively. I am fully cognizant of that improbability. I am simply trying to illustrate why some of us find these "cheats" undesirable.
In MMOs, decision making should have consequences.
It IS the same. Yes, I've exaggerated the analogy in order to make a point. That does not detract from the fact that in both instances a player is skirting critical decision making that should occur through out the 1-60 leveling process, and replacing it with "buying" and end game "cheat" that will make everything alright. You chose to not see the parallels because it does not fit your argument. but it is glaringly obvious to all who look at it from an objective point of view.
Again, I am not trying to convince you of looking at this objectively. I am fully cognizant of that improbability. I am simply trying to illustrate why some of us find these "cheats" undesirable.
In MMOs, decision making should have consequences.
No, the analogy doesn't fit, I'm sorry. Comparing a 'carrot' mechanic that empowers your character and is NEVER final with something on par with a cosmetic is folly. You accuse me of being blind to the comparison,, but you categorize something that has no bearing on character performance with the core source of our character development.
bbsooner; While I applaud your tirelessness, I honestly don't think you can do much more to help "lashes"; he/she seems to be the rare kind of actually articulate and at first seemingly intelligent troll that feeds off baiting people online. If not that, he's just desperately lost in how wrong he is and I sincerely doubt he'll listen to reason - this whole thread has countless "objective" posts, ranging from decent to great, yet none have even made a dent with him. So why bother? Thankfully he is a minority, kind of like the Westboro Baptists. Let em rage. :P
Elessym; Sure there would be consqeuences to redesign or add a feature, but they would hardly be catastrophic; Look at WoW for example - they have Race Changes and in that game it has effects on a hell of a lot more than it ever could in Neverwinter. :P (i.e. factions and lots of racial quests etc)
No, the analogy doesn't fit, I'm sorry. Comparing a 'carrot' mechanic that empowers your character and is NEVER final with something on par with a cosmetic is folly. You accuse me of being blind to the comparison,, but you categorize something that has no bearing on character performance with the core source of our character development.
You, on the other hand, are invalidating the analogies based on "extreme impacts." It is a matter of simple game concept, not of "impact extremes." Regardless of which one has greater impact, the effect is still the same. Players buying end game "cheats" to wipe away critical game decision making. Again, and I don't know what it is about this simple phrase that you do not understand ...
In MMO's, critical game decisions should have consequences. Otherwise, what exactly is the point of making character development decisions throughout the leveling process?
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bilewormMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
I have one lore beef with the game involving races: in Forgotten Realms, they are not called wood elves; they are called moon elves. This is a small thing, I know, but a thing nonetheless. I mean, if you have the license, you might as well stick to the lore especially when it doesn't affect coding or gameplay. Simply sticking to the generic 4E lore instead of incorporating FR material is just creative laziness.
@johnfell I agree, debates online never sway the opposition.
@lashes: I respect your playstyle, but accept the impasse in ideals. I can only hope that after nw strings down their vast list of bugs that race change is added, as I'm sure you hope its skipped lol. Either way, we haven't made progress in the debate for a while, I suggest we move on.
bbsooner; While I applaud your tirelessness, I honestly don't think you can do much more to help "lashes"; he/she seems to be the rare kind of actually articulate and at first seemingly intelligent troll that feeds off baiting people online. If not that, he's just desperately lost in how wrong he is and I sincerely doubt he'll listen to reason - this whole thread has countless "objective" posts, ranging from decent to great, yet none have even made a dent with him. So why bother? Thankfully he is a minority, kind of like the Westboro Baptists. Let em rage. :P
Elessym; Sure there would be consqeuences to redesign or add a feature, but they would hardly be catastrophic; Look at WoW for example - they have Race Changes and in that game it has effects on a hell of a lot more than it ever could in Neverwinter. :P (i.e. factions and lots of racial quests etc)
She, and we are having a respectful debate, yet you come on with your "all mighty righteous self" and begin demeaning, belittling and accusing others of being trolls simply because you do not agree with their point of view.
So who really is the troll here?
You do not have to answer that question. We have all read prior posts by you, Sir All Mighty Righteous One.
... and that Troll, would be none other ... than you.
@johnfell I agree, debates online never sway the opposition.
@lashes: I respect your playstyle, but accept the impasse in ideals. I can only hope that after nw strings down their vast list of bugs that race change is added, as I'm sure you hope its skipped lol. Either way, we haven't made progress in the debate for a while, I suggest we move on.
I agree bbsooner. And thank you for a respectful debate. I only wish others in our community were as capable of holding debates without reducing them to name calling and degrading insinuation. I've enjoyed our debate. Thank you.
She, and we are having a respectful debate, yet you come on with your "all mighty righteous self" and begin demeaning, belittling and accusing others of being trolls simply because you do not agree with their point of view.
So who really is the troll here?
You do not have to answer that question. We have all read prior posts by you, Sir All Mighty Righteous One.
That Troll, would be you.
I'm fascinated you made the gender distinction, thank you, very informative and important to me. (Not really)
And oh I see... you were having a respectful debate...? And I was the base beast that sullied it by being demeaning... belittling... while appearing "all mighty righteous"...? Huh... That's kind of odd, considering one of your "retorts" to bbsooner;
You have re-read yet are unable to understand? If I were you, I would not be so quick to admit that you have "re-read" yet do not understand. Doing so does not reflect well on your reading comprehension skills. I do, however, respect your request for a restatement. I am afraid that I must deny your request, however, because those posts explaining your request are still up and available for you to peruse at your own leisure. They are written in English and require no deciphering expertise. I will, however, give you a brief one paragraph briefing that may help with any attention deficits that creep in while reading "long tired analogies." Here it goes ... ready for it? ...
... now... call me one short of crazy, but that doesn't seem very respectful or much like a serious debate to me? :P But then again, what would I know, I just troll with my "all mighty righteous self" and spend my days demeaning, belittling and accusing good, honest folk. ( Not really )
But I get that you're all butt hurt about something in life, take it out on the forums and rage, rage against the dying of the... er.. mmo's decions... lacking finality... or somesuch massively important and comepletely without nonsensical reasons. Anyway, don't see this going into very constructive places, so .... good luck in life!
Elessym; Sure there would be consqeuences to redesign or add a feature, but they would hardly be catastrophic; Look at WoW for example - they have Race Changes and in that game it has effects on a hell of a lot more than it ever could in Neverwinter. :P (i.e. factions and lots of racial quests etc)
Blizzard also has ten times the developers and QA that Cryptic does. And you don't know how long it took them to do, either, they could have been working on it for years....
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Comments
You wouldn't believe the weird HAMSTER that happens. Just a few weeks ago I had a database blow up because months ago someone changed a collation. Everything was fine until one day replication munged some whitespace and bam, packet size exceeded, thanks for coming.
Moral of the story: trivial changes aren't.
And yet, I just can't accept coding ineptitude as a reason not to add a feature. No more classes or races, adding it might blow up the db. Wait, what?
Please, I am no more imposing my game play philosophy on you than you are imposing yours on me. This is a debate regarding differing game play preferences. As a matter of fact, my game play preference is currently the de facto game play mechanic in the game. In that regard, it would be you who is imposing by attempting to change it.
Regarding your last sentence, I've already explained why I would not be oblivious to choices made by other players. The fact that you insist I would, despite the fact that I've already explained otherwise, confirms the fact that it is you who is guilty of doing to me, exactly that which you are accusing me of doing to you.
Yeah, you don't understand. I kinda figured.
1. You buy a token in the Z-store which allows you to partake in the rebirth trial.
2. The rebirth trial comes in 2 varieties - a solo version and a team version.
3. The solo version has you journey to one of the main zones to talk to a representative of the race you want to become. They set you off on an instanced mission where you have to accomplish some task. Upon completing it, you are given the option of changing to that race. Of course, a mandatory appearance change is involved in this, and the token gets consumed as well,.
4. The team version would basically be you and your team going into some sort of chaos realm. Completing the event allows you to change your race, (if you have a token, which gets consumed in the process). Others w/o the token could also queue, but they don't get the option to change their race. You can RP this as there being side effects to entering the chaos realm.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Oh boy, now that's a subject I've been wanting to address! Death in Neverwinter.
You see, I hate death in a game. Death is permanent and dying in Neverwinter or any MMO for that matter is treated like you're changing your shorts; something that happens frequently and the only thought given to the action is so trivial that it's not worth mentioning.
That's not death, that's a defeat and a poorly explained one at that (how did I survive?). If we're going to play with death, death should be respected. I am of the mind if you die and you're going to be resurrected by your party, awesome, that's what playing with a party is for: Keeping you from being plant food. However if they don't resurrect you or you solo and no one is willing to save you, you should be dead if being defeated and not resurrected is what you want to call that result.
And since it is at the moment that way, then please explain how I came back from Kelemvor's Scales? Hrmm? If we die, the penalty for death should be cheating death by being placed under a geis (A quest they must complete) to do something that allows them to live or better yet, put them in a instanced area where they look for a way to escape death and return to life after which they resume where they are.
Yep, I'm a HAMSTER, but I like having a resurrection being explained. Also it puts some value in those self-res scrolls in the zen market since there will always be those who want to skip a penalty or resume what they were doing ASAP.
Otherwise change it to defeated and just put up a message saying a random group of adventurers found you bleeding in a corner and have graciously taken you back to the resident cleric for healing. Because it's just not death.
1) As others have said, there may be complications in the database for characters who have completed racial quests, or other racial-specific aspects of the game.
2) Role-playing elements and immersion.
On the other hand, people should, indeed have the ability to customize their character as they see fit -- up to, and including, race and gender change.
Personally I can see one solution, at least with regards to the race change, that would be easy enough to implement, database-wise, and should satisfy role-player concerns as well...
Make the Race Reset Token actually reset your character to level 1 with regards to everything except inventory, bank, mounts, companions and tradeskills. That way the database is wiped clean, and you don't have to worry about cross-over quests or anything of the sort. At the same time, for role-players or whatever else, it's pretty much the same as if the character was completely deleted and then re-made as the new race. And, for the person actually doing the race-change it means that whatever money, AD, or hours spent farming gear for their character has not been lost.
It's pretty quick to get to 60 in this game as it is, so spending another couple of days as a "penalty" to the race-change should not be a huge issue -- and they get to see the racial quests as well. And once they do get to 60, they can just put on their old gear and be good to go.
- What Class Are You? -
They would end up charging money for this feature, so I can't see any way a penalty should be tacked onto it. If it was something you just did with astral or gold, yeah I could totally see your point of view. When some people would use cash to get the zen to get the reset, just can't get behind that. The only thing I would see as reasonable would be 'this character cannot change races again for X days'.
They will do this feature eventually, it's practically a given. Too many people want it and are willing to pay for it, and eventually they will give in for the greater profit. WoW said for a long time they would resist racial changes as they liked some choices sticking with your character forever...until they realized they could charge 25 bucks and millions would buy it.
Personally, I don't care what people do with their characters as long as it's within legal means, so if Joe Halfling wants to become Joe Halforc...cool, enjoy the new life!
It is the +2 to DEX that is an issue.
Personally I'd think that of all the racial choices (apart from maybe Dwarfs) Half-Orcs are the one's that should be least likely to have +2DEX. I would have thought that +2 STR and +2CON would seem more reasonable......
If you've explained how you wouldn't be oblivious, feel free to restate your reason (as ive been asking in multiple posts), because after rereading your long tired analogies I am unable to discern how you would know if somebody in your group has changed to human from halfelf a month prior. Because you wouldn't, and nothing you've said has been contrary.
And 'de facto' in an mmo is limited, since de facto for neverwinter would mean no factions, no pve raid, no legendary items, no joint foundry projects, and (until next patch) no grey need button for non-matching classes on items. The current state means little.
Lol, I am a software developer by profession, and I state again, coding ineptitude is a poor reason for not adding a feature other products have implemented succesfully.
Except its also likely that our characters don't haul around the completion information fir each quest we do (and I contest more likely in fact). Its most likely just a series of simple flags that discern available or not, and complete or not. We don't load up our entire quest history every time the character is accessed (at least I would hope not, that's a really dumb business practice).
You have re-read yet are unable to understand? If I were you, I would not be so quick to admit that you have "re-read" yet do not understand. Doing so does not reflect well on your reading comprehension skills. I do, however, respect your request for a restatement. I am afraid that I must deny your request, however, because those posts explaining your request are still up and available for you to peruse at your own leisure. They are written in English and require no deciphering expertise. I will, however, give you a brief one paragraph briefing that may help with any attention deficits that creep in while reading "long tired analogies." Here it goes ... ready for it? ...
In MMO's, decision making should be meaningful and have consequences. The ability to "buy" game ending "cheats" that have the ability to wipe away any mistakes you may have made through your 1-60 leveling journey, cheapens the game experience and renders any critical decision making via the 1-60 leveling process totally irrelevant.
I've no doubt this means nothing to you. But there it is, in a nutshell.
That doesn't provide how you would know somebody participated in a race change, that is just how you view the process. So, tell me, how would you not be oblivious to a person participating in one. Would they be a gigantic, all green version of themselves. Surely you imagine some marker to denote that person as cheapening your experience.
Your character finality remains unchanged. And as far as you knew, everybody else finality would be intact aswell.
And what decisions! This game is linear! There are no faction choices or defining class features via race!. The only impact on your 1-60 is negligible ability score stats and an extra kill quest in a random zone.
You seem unable to grasp the point. I'll try to explain it from a different point of view.
We meet at end game in a PvP or PvE setting. I am consistently defeating you, or performing better you. You are frustrated. So you inspect me and discover that I am geared to the hilt with the best epic purple everything in the game. You do not know that i "bought" an end game level 60 character fully geared with the best armor, weapons, fastest mount, etc., in the game?
Mind you, the fact I bought my end game doesn't provide how you would know that I participated in "buying" my end game everything. You may think so, but that is just how you view the process. So, tell me, how would you not be oblivious to a person having done so. Surely, you must be imagining some marker to denote that person as cheapening your experience.
Your character finality remains unchanged. And as far as you knew, everybody else finality would be intact aswell.
Would this cheapen your game experience?
Sometimes looking at the person in the mirror, answers all of your questions.
Side stepping that you can currently buy full sets of purples in game currently, that is a straw man. Race choice has a minute effect on character performance, and is largely cosmetic in nature. Comparing it to a competitive setting is a poor comparison.
Its true my character finality is unchanged, but In your analogy are you contending that gear is a feature of finality instead of development? Its an irrelevant analogy, gear is not final. Their race (the finality being contended) in that pvp comparison would not tip the balance of power. They would just look better doing it to some peoples tastes.
Edit:and it's not that I'm not grasping the point, I just can't accept why race is on a pedestal of 'critical choices' when features that actually shape your characters role/performance/playstyle are given retraining tokens.
Not a good one if you don't understand the possible unintended consequences of changing something that was assumed would never be changed.
It IS the same. Yes, I've exaggerated the analogy in order to make a point. That does not detract from the fact that in both instances a player is skirting critical decision making that should occur through out the 1-60 leveling process, and replacing it with "buying" an end game "cheat" that will make everything alright. You chose to not see the parallels because it does not fit your argument. but it is glaringly obvious to all who look at it from an objective point of view.
Again, I am not trying to convince you of looking at this objectively. I am fully cognizant of that improbability. I am simply trying to illustrate why some of us find these "cheats" undesirable.
In MMOs, decision making should have consequences.
You're right, I'm clearly just a bad developer that looks at a change and says 'nope, too hard, they must have used magic to add that feature'.
No, the analogy doesn't fit, I'm sorry. Comparing a 'carrot' mechanic that empowers your character and is NEVER final with something on par with a cosmetic is folly. You accuse me of being blind to the comparison,, but you categorize something that has no bearing on character performance with the core source of our character development.
Elessym; Sure there would be consqeuences to redesign or add a feature, but they would hardly be catastrophic; Look at WoW for example - they have Race Changes and in that game it has effects on a hell of a lot more than it ever could in Neverwinter. :P (i.e. factions and lots of racial quests etc)
You, on the other hand, are invalidating the analogies based on "extreme impacts." It is a matter of simple game concept, not of "impact extremes." Regardless of which one has greater impact, the effect is still the same. Players buying end game "cheats" to wipe away critical game decision making. Again, and I don't know what it is about this simple phrase that you do not understand ...
In MMO's, critical game decisions should have consequences. Otherwise, what exactly is the point of making character development decisions throughout the leveling process?
Um, no.
Wood Elves: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Wood_elf
Moon Elves: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Wood_elf
My favorite didn't make it in.. Wild Elves: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_elf
@lashes: I respect your playstyle, but accept the impasse in ideals. I can only hope that after nw strings down their vast list of bugs that race change is added, as I'm sure you hope its skipped lol. Either way, we haven't made progress in the debate for a while, I suggest we move on.
She, and we are having a respectful debate, yet you come on with your "all mighty righteous self" and begin demeaning, belittling and accusing others of being trolls simply because you do not agree with their point of view.
So who really is the troll here?
You do not have to answer that question. We have all read prior posts by you, Sir All Mighty Righteous One.
... and that Troll, would be none other ... than you.
I agree bbsooner. And thank you for a respectful debate. I only wish others in our community were as capable of holding debates without reducing them to name calling and degrading insinuation. I've enjoyed our debate. Thank you.
I'm fascinated you made the gender distinction, thank you, very informative and important to me. (Not really)
And oh I see... you were having a respectful debate...? And I was the base beast that sullied it by being demeaning... belittling... while appearing "all mighty righteous"...? Huh... That's kind of odd, considering one of your "retorts" to bbsooner;
... now... call me one short of crazy, but that doesn't seem very respectful or much like a serious debate to me? :P But then again, what would I know, I just troll with my "all mighty righteous self" and spend my days demeaning, belittling and accusing good, honest folk. ( Not really )
But I get that you're all butt hurt about something in life, take it out on the forums and rage, rage against the dying of the... er.. mmo's decions... lacking finality... or somesuch massively important and comepletely without nonsensical reasons. Anyway, don't see this going into very constructive places, so .... good luck in life!
Blizzard also has ten times the developers and QA that Cryptic does. And you don't know how long it took them to do, either, they could have been working on it for years....