Let a few chosen FOUNDRY players design next content.

joocycuzzzzzz · April 2015

The amount of recycling I've seen in this module is absolutely disgusting. I've played a few Foundries that literally put this ENTIRE module's content to shame.

Every single lair that I've ever played in the past (From Sharadar... Dread Ring.... or even 1-60 quests) was recycled and re-skinned and had a name change to be called "new content."

Example: "Nimbus Tower" from Spinward Rise is literally "Tower of Celadaine" from Sharandar that had a few props moved here and there, and a few re-colors, seriously?

Let a few chosen Foundry players design the maps for future content, so we can have actual new content, and not re-skinned/recycled "content".

drkbodhi · April 2015

Or have a contest related to making a new area... or making the new dungeons that come out.

ehhhhhhwat · April 2015

drkbodhi wrote: »

Or have a contest related to making a new area... or making the new dungeons that come out.

New dungeons ?!
:Q_
*droooooooools*
gimmi !

valcontar73 · April 2015

joocycuzzzzzz wrote: »

The amount of recycling I've seen in this module is absolutely disgusting. I've played a few Foundries that literally put this ENTIRE module's content to shame.

Every single lair that I've ever played in the past (From Sharadar... Dread Ring.... or even 1-60 quests) was recycled and re-skinned and had a name change to be called "new content."

Example: "Nimbus Tower" from Spinward Rise is literally "Tower of Celadaine" from Sharandar that had a few props moved here and there, and a few re-colors, seriously?

Let a few chosen Foundry players design the maps for future content, so we can have actual new content, and not re-skinned/recycled "content".

Not gonna happen, but thank you for saying that.

eldarth · April 2015

I already requested/suggested to Akromatik that if the Skirmish/Event Team could provide a small amount of guidance, then foundry authors could submit potential skirmishes and events that they could then "polish" and finish to their liking without having to do everything from scratch.

reiwulf · April 2015

This is what many of us have been asking since forever.
Sadly cryptic seems to prefer reusing old maps with 0% creativity than having people designing their new content for free. Blows my mind. it's like they deliberately don't want us to enjoy the foundry.
They could easily make contests where the winner would have his/her map added as a new area or a dungeon, or even simpler things like a tavern or whatever. But the answer is always the same, none.

quspiv · April 2015

+ over 9000. M6 quests are a joke. Foundry quests at least had some funny or/and interesting story.

suicidalgodot · April 2015

Sweet idea! Fully supported.

...alternatively or additionally let the Foundry authors have access to more props. And reward some seal in the Golden Chest - e.g. make a new one, that's the only preordained "novelty" that every new Module brings, so it should easily be doable once in the game's lifetime for Foundries... ...add a money exchanger to the Seven Suns Coster Market, bingo!

ambisinisterr · April 2015

Definitely something I had pushed for, for a long, long time.

I'd rather the devs work on other things and let the players help build large amounts of contnet. They just need the devs to make it official and give some final polishing players can't do with The Foundry. TBH this would be a much better use of the Foundry content and would allow the devs to spend more time on more critical areas IMO.

Nobody know sthe content players enjoy more than players. NWN was proof that games could survive for years based on UGC only because the community always brought something new and interesting to the table and it's no different here. The better foundry content blows the developers contents away, no offense intended, and I really want to see them have the reigns on new content with dev direction rather than having it be a side show which is vastly unused and untapped potential.

eldarth · April 2015

I think they've already written off this game. Their main development thrust is behind yet-another-generic-tired-engine-MMO and are simply copy-pasting old zones and mashing them up a bit so they are "new" and adding same dull quest grind. The pirate-skyhold area to get the fire and air seeds was really, really sad. I haven't seen a railroaded, linear tunnel with so many mobs just standing around waiting to be killed since I played some first-time foundry authors making farming quests. Pretty bad.

katamaster81899 · April 2015

Well, someone should talk to Strumslinger about it, maybe he will push harder for us. He seems to be interested in the community already, so I think if we were to talk to him... maybe it would happen.

of course, they need to fix map transfer errors first.

dragoness10 · April 2015

From a business stand point recycling areas can save money by not having more time spent on completely new areas being built from scratch.

There is also continuing lore, and progression in roleplay in how time passes, and new events occur.

This can be hard to mesh in logical lore progression, time/money saving devices so next mod comes out sooner, and completely new never before seen items players crave.

This isn't hideously bad done in Mod 6. Players asked "what do we do after lvl 60?" "Is there a harder challenge since I can solo things?" "What good is gold?"

Answers were given. Not all will like them.

reiwulf · April 2015

I'm not against recycling areas that are the same, like drowned shore, it is supposed to be the same place, just after a big wave destroyed part of it, that's fine.
which isn't fine is doing "new" dungeons that are just the same as an old one for no reason whatsoever and call it a new dungeon.
if they would let us foundry authors design new maps and content, they would spend zero money and time, and could really focus on more important matters to them, like class balance and endgame refining.
NVN1 and 2 show hos far can user generated content go.

katamaster81899 · April 2015

Why don't we make some examples to show to the devs, and demonstrate how something like this could be done.

First, we'd have to choose one of the recycled lairs. There are plenty of them, but we should agree on one for the purpose of demonstrating and comparing side by side. Then, we'd have to do the following

1. Create a new foundry titled the exact same name as the quest of the lair that we are choosing. We should agree on a name so they can easily be found together all at once.
2. Look at the original quest description. What are the objectives, and what is the lore provided. Those exact things must be incorporated into our new foundries. (i.e. If we are supposed to go kill a "Bob the Werewolf" in his wolf den, you must create a wolf den with an end-boss "Bob the Werewolf". The foundry should end whereever the original quest/lair was turned in as well).

If we were to follow base guidlines like that, and all choose on one lair to all redo in our own individual way, we would have more than enough evidence to go forward to the devs with our idea. This way they have lots of them to compare their lair too, and see how much they could have in the game if they let this idea go through.

What do you guys think? Would you all be willing to create foundries so that we can present them to the developers as evidence for our idea?

suicidalgodot · April 2015

dragoness10 wrote: »

From a business stand point recycling areas can save money by not having more time spent on completely new areas being built from scratch.

There is also continuing lore, and progression in roleplay in how time passes, and new events occur.

This can be hard to mesh in logical lore progression, time/money saving devices so next mod comes out sooner, and completely new never before seen items players crave.

This isn't hideously bad done in Mod 6. Players asked "what do we do after lvl 60?" "Is there a harder challenge since I can solo things?" "What good is gold?"

Answers were given. Not all will like them.

From a business standpoint, a little gem of wisdom from my time as a salesman:

"Getting a good regular customer is hard, long work. Losing a good regular customer can be achieved in a few seconds."

Currently Cryptic is apparently neither interested in the new business of players to come, judging by the gear problem, nor in keeping longterm repeat customers, who are apalled by the extent of recycing being sold as "new".

Also, I don't really find widening the level scissor while narrowing the sweet spot trough so much more challenging. Or rather, not the kind of challenge I'm after, not as it is executed here and now. Also, while I find that all fine, nice and sweet as an optional offer, the point is that it right now somewhat infringes on the solo content. Completely obliterating a core part of the gear system, set bonuses, which I viewed as an attractive part of the game, with the same stroke, without even any visible attempt at replacing it with something building upon the tradition built over the course of the game - takes another chunk out of the game's heart.

So, back to the business side:

"Build on your strengths and try to strengthen your weaknesses" is another truism. With Mod 6 they flushed the game's strenghts down the toilet, and propagate one of their weak points - storytelling - as strong. Meh. How could this possibly go wrong...

So now comes the point where the Foundry author idea comes in, and yes, it does sound like a chance to salvage the game.

Challenge? There are other games catering to that clientèle and / or particular craving, and plenty of those are way better than this one here... ...and I also doubt that the formerly underchallenged player group is really the main chunk of income in this game.

Mod three and four each introduced something new into the game - Icewind Dale is a huge area, and there was plenty of novelty in it. Mod four brought us the "downleveled" Dragon fights and artiGear.

Mod five brought us more artiGear and one new, lovelessly executed and rather meh map, and the same Tiamat bossfight over and over and over and over again. I just stopped doing this to me - it's been less challenging than assembly line work.

And now Mod 6 gives us reskins and reused maps. And the brutality of higher figures. Doh.

So why not crowdsource at least the map design part? Doesn't have to be the whole Module, but stitch together the best parts from the best entrants and you at least have a new dungeon à la Cloak Tower...

ehhhhhhwat · April 2015

suicidalgodot wrote: »

Challenge? There are other games catering to that clientèle and / or particular craving, and plenty of those are way better than this one here... ...and I also doubt that the formerly underchallenged player group is really the main chunk of income in this game.

Jackpot.
/10 char

eldarth · April 2015

katamaster81899 wrote: »

Why don't we make some examples to show to the devs, and demonstrate how something like this could be done.

First, we'd have to choose one of the recycled lairs. There are plenty of them, but we should agree on one for the purpose of demonstrating and comparing side by side. Then, we'd have to do the following

1. Create a new foundry titled the exact same name as the quest of the lair that we are choosing. We should agree on a name so they can easily be found together all at once.
2. Look at the original quest description. What are the objectives, and what is the lore provided. Those exact things must be incorporated into our new foundries. (i.e. If we are supposed to go kill a "Bob the Werewolf" in his wolf den, you must create a wolf den with an end-boss "Bob the Werewolf". The foundry should end whereever the original quest/lair was turned in as well).

If we were to follow base guidlines like that, and all choose on one lair to all redo in our own individual way, we would have more than enough evidence to go forward to the devs with our idea. This way they have lots of them to compare their lair too, and see how much they could have in the game if they let this idea go through.

What do you guys think? Would you all be willing to create foundries so that we can present them to the developers as evidence for our idea?

I kind of like it. I'm not sure about everyone agreeing on a single lair. I think freedom of lair choice might drive more diversity and have a wider range of examples. But, it should definitely fit into either replacing, or advancing the existing lore of the lair. Maybe we should put together a poll of all the lairs/dungeons and find out what the most popular ones are and select the top 10 or something as official templates.

It may even be beneficial to touch base with Strumslinger as long as it doesn't create a CF like the last Cryptic sponsored foundry contest that got something like 400 entries because you got a free toy just for entering.

katamaster81899 · April 2015

eldarth wrote: »

I kind of like it. I'm not sure about everyone agreeing on a single lair. I think freedom of lair choice might drive more diversity and have a wider range of examples. But, it should definitely fit into either replacing, or advancing the existing lore of the lair. Maybe we should put together a poll of all the lairs/dungeons and find out what the most popular ones are and select the top 10 or something as official templates.

It may even be beneficial to touch base with Strumslinger as long as it doesn't create a CF like the last Cryptic sponsored foundry contest that got something like 400 entries because you got a free toy just for entering.

Go for it Eldarth! If anyone should be in-charge of this thing, it's you!

We could get a whole lot more entries if we were to offer a prize for it, make this into one of your foundry contests. I probably have something floating around somewhere I could donate for a prize.

eldarth · April 2015

katamaster81899 wrote: »

Go for it Eldarth! If anyone should be in-charge of this thing, it's you!

We could get a whole lot more entries if we were to offer a prize for it, make this into one of your foundry contests. I probably have something floating around somewhere I could donate for a prize.

I've still got about 3 1/2 Million AD donated from MrGiggles651 for prizes.

I noticed they also removed like 2/3 of the dungeons with mod 6.

Next steps...

Poll General forum for favorite dungeons?
Pick 5-8 of the LEAST favorite ones? The ones really needing a makeover?
Decide on rules, timeframe, judging options
Call for "Interesting" Prize Donations - non AD stuff - something auction worthy perhaps
Contact Strumslinger - see if we can get "proper" Cryptic involvement and not a free toy with every 5 minute foundry creation.
Finalize rules, time, prizes
Hold contest

Maybe get a volunteer panel of judges for "Judges Award"
Perhaps a volunteer to track "actual average" star ratings for "first, second, third place?" *cough* Tipa?

Comments, critiques, conundrums?

katamaster81899 · April 2015

eldarth wrote: »

I've still got about 3 1/2 Million AD donated from MrGiggles651 for prizes.

I noticed they also removed like 2/3 of the dungeons with mod 6.

Next steps...
Poll General forum for favorite dungeons?

Pick 5-8 of the LEAST favorite ones? The ones really needing a makeover?

Decide on rules, timeframe, judging options

Call for "Interesting" Prize Donations - non AD stuff - something auction worthy perhaps

Contact Strumslinger - see if we can get "proper" Cryptic involvement and not a free toy with every 5 minute foundry creation.

Finalize rules, time, prizes

Hold contest

Maybe get a volunteer panel of judges for "Judges Award"
Perhaps a volunteer to track "actual average" star ratings for "first, second, third place?" *cough* Tipa?

Comments, critiques, conundrums?

As much as I'd love to have a dungeon rework, I don't think that the asset budget is big enough for us to truely make something like that work in one map.

I think we should focus on lairs to start (shorter, and that's what the most obvious reused content is). I'd be willing to help judge if you want.

We still would have to wait for the map transfer bug to be resolved before we could start this.

doctordna · April 2015

I agree 110%, in fact I suggested to my FBCF group (third reply) a while back.

But for those of you who still refuse to Facebook with the rest of us, this is what I wrote on April 12th;

Simon Tomoko on Facebook wrote:

Both PWE and Cryptic lack vision. The way to make money off the Foundry is rather simple from my point of view. The top 20 authors that show promise and have the creative edge should be contracted by the company to write for a one time only fee of $500 a mission for the next module NOT to be released. The purchased mission becomes IP of PWE and Cryptic. Now to make the money back (and then some) the next module is sold as additional content to the players for $20 who desire the best of the best. The authors are happy with credits and cash in their pockets, also PWE/Cryptic got additional content for only $10,000 you can't tell me they pay that little for one developer. All they need to break even is 500 sales. Not to mention all the additional players the company would get joining up to be the next Foundry author to get his story told in the next module. BTW almost forgot, they could also offer the author an alternate choice of $700 worth of Zen which would cost them $0 if they accepted.

We were discussing the Foundry and how it could be "profitable" to the companies.

torontodave · April 2015

eldarth wrote: »

Poll General forum for favorite dungeons?

Pick 5-8 of the LEAST favorite ones? The ones really needing a makeover?

Contact Strumslinger - see if we can get "proper" Cryptic involvement

Maybe get a volunteer panel of judges for "Judges Award"

Are the blackdagger assets available? Could we just re-make drowned shore, but better? =X

Show them what the area COULD have been? ;D

katamaster81899 · April 2015

torontodave wrote: »

Are the blackdagger assets available? Could we just re-make drowned shore, but better? =X

Show them what the area COULD have been? ;D

Again, I think that the asset budget would be a restricting factor here, along with the inability to create Heroic Encounters in the foundry. (Is that another feature that we need to request be added?)

katamaster81899 · April 2015

torontodave wrote: »

Are the blackdagger assets available? Could we just re-make drowned shore, but better? =X

Show them what the area COULD have been? ;D

And yeah, those assets are available I think. At least, the old ones are.

hustin1 · April 2015

katamaster81899 wrote: »

Again, I think that the asset budget would be a restricting factor here, along with the inability to create Heroic Encounters in the foundry. (Is that another feature that we need to request be added?)

The asset limit is tough, but you can sort of get around it with multiple maps. The final map of my Foundry was initially intended as something of a template for a dungeon. It runs right up to the 1700 asset limit, but there is already lots of precedent for dungeons with more than one level.

In any case, I was really striving for an alien look, something entirely unlike what we've seen elsewhere in the game. It's definitely possible, and if I ever put together a sequel I'd like to push the idea much farther.

One thing that I really found constraining was the inability to change the elevation of rooms, though I sort of managed it with one room (the one where you have to unlock the door to breach the outer defenses). It's a lot of work, to be sure, but doable. I had toyed with the idea of having passageways snake under and over each other but decided that it would have made the overall traversal take too long for a simple Foundry quest. There's no reason why you couldn't do that for a real dungeon, though.

I like the idea, but it would have to be a two-way street: often I found myself getting to that 95% point where I almost had what I wanted, but needed that one little asset. For example, the major reason why the asset limit was such a problem for me was because there is only one Thayan wall section, one that is 20' long. A 40'-long one would have cut hundreds of assets from the map, but that presumes that someone at Cryptic would be able to respond to asset requests.