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I don't get you guys. The Romulan Republic IS a faction. No ifs, ands or buts.

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    erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    zadama wrote: »
    I'm getting really annoyed with the naysayers on the forums about the Romulans. Before the announcement was made, hardly anyone truly believed a Romulan faction of any shape was coming. Lo and behold, it is - but because it doesn't conform to people's pre-concieved expectations, there's a firestorm on the forums.

    Think of this from a story perspective. The Empire left after Hobus was a shadow of its former self. In Mine Enemy, one of the Romulan Refugees puts this quite explicitly:

    "The Empire?

    Bah! What Empire? Our empire turned to dust with the loss of the homeworld.

    If you're rich or in the military, then maybe there is something. I hear that the people in Sela's shining city in the Rator system live quite well ... as long as they obey her commands."

    The Romulan Republic under D'Tan is nothing like its imperial predecessor. For crying out loud, they're living with Remans, and treating them as equals! Romulans in the Republic are a more tolerant people, tempered by the hardships they have endured. D'Tan and Obisek invited the Federation and KDF to New Romulus to assist them in getting set up, and if they require that, the Republic will certainly need assistance on the galactic stage.

    Romulan fans are longing for a time before Abrams destroyed Romulus. Unfortunately, time has passed, and for better or for worse Romulans will never again be the same in this timeline.
    Klingons rebuilt after Praxis, didn't they ? Why the Romulan can't rebuild to ? Why do they need to switch side ? Why do they need to work for opposite faction ? That's stupid.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I've been giving this post some more thought. Its true, the Romulans will be a faction, the same way Omega Fleet is a faction, same as tau Dewa, same as all the Ferengi traders we see all over the place, same as the Orion Crime Syndicate even though its part of the KDF now....etc, etc, etc. These are all "factions" and the new Romulan republic will fit right in with them.....

    /facepalm :rolleyes:

    I just wish Cryptic had been more honest about it. It could've done its hype and marketing WITHOUT leading players on like it did.

    This is the second time Cryptic does this, the first time was the way we were all led to believe that during the "year of drought" a ton of content was being worked on to be released as part of the F2P change. Dan is very good at leading players on, whether intentional or not.
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    darkelfofficerdarkelfofficer Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    What part of "they will not be supplying their forces to any side in the Fed. & KDF conflict" don't you understand?
    They are allied to both, they will work together with both against the bigger threats in the quadrant because that is what the Romulans are concerned with, not the war between the Federation and the Empire. You get the freedom to choose side, because it would be stupid if Cryptic made D'Tan gave you the orders - every new Rom. helps Fed., every second one - KDF! If they were concerning themselves with this war, they would have just picked a side at the start od Season 7 and be done with it instead of trying to sway both to help them rebuild.

    Romulans will be blowing up the opposing faction in PvE as well, so... your entire argument is irrelevant. Some Romulan captains will be fighting on behalf of the Feds, others will be fighting on behalf of the Klingons, even in PvE.

    The choice is ALL about the war.

    That the Fed-KDF war simply disappears when convenient is not an example of great lore writing, although a temporary armistice to confront the Borg is more believable than what's been developed for the Romulans, which doesn't just defy suspension of disbelief, it spits in its face and screams that the suspension of disbelief will never take its freedom.
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    1-10 might be Romulan .

    10-40 is the sellout far fetched perverted version of a Romulan .

    Have Fun .

    In your opinion, based on little to no real information. Until we see the story, everything is just speculation.

    Luckily, we are each entitled to our opinions. The success or failure of the expansion remains to be seen. I suspect if the content is fun, it will do just fine regardless of our individual interpretations of how the lore should play out.
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Big difference is that the KDF despite having nothing at launch was still their own faction, Team RED. The Romulans are not a faction, its not a team of players , its a race choice that has unique content for FED and KDF players.

    No, it has unique content for Romulans. Fed and/or KDF players have to join a Romulan player to play that content.

    The lack of a starbase and Romulan-specific PvP is an issue. The rest of the faction is still uniquely Romulan.

    For the rest of the content, our Romulan characters never have to team up with Fed or KDF, nor play their missions. Even when it comes to STFs, it sounds like you can team up, or you can just get together with other Romulan players (perhaps with the same "alliance") and play without Fed of KDF players.

    The *fact* is we don't know all the ins and outs yet. Blowing our gaskets over information we don't have is senseless.
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Stahl has said a lot of big things. And delivered a lot of little results.

    I don't have blinders on; the past is not lost on me.

    But to base all speculation on scant information and declare something we haven't even seen yet to be a disaster is itself a failure.

    I see something that sounds good on the face of it, with a couple of significant shortcomings. Others focus on those shortcomings and ignore the rest.

    My preference is to look at the whole available picture and see how information fleshes out before making a final judgment.
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    arcademasterarcademaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Romulans will be blowing up the opposing faction in PvE as well, so...

    The only PvE missions the Romulans share with Feds or KDF are the Featured Episodes, which were always designed to be faction neutral. You fight devidians, the Dominion, Breen and Borg in those missions, not Klingons of Humans. STFs are against Borg and Undine, possibly new ones with Tholians. That's it.

    The only thing were things might get iffy is fleet events. There would be lot's of easy fixes to get around those for Cryptic to make.

    Stop spewing hate and bile with no solid basis.
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    catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The only PvE missions the Romulans share with Feds or KDF are the Featured Episodes, which were always designed to be faction neutral. You fight devidians, the Dominion, Breen and Borg in those missions, not Klingons of Humans. STFs are against Borg and Undine, possibly new ones with Tholians. That's it.

    The only thing were things might get iffy is fleet events. There would be lot's of easy fixes to get around those for Cryptic to make.

    Stop spewing hate and bile with no solid basis.
    You seem to be forgetting the part on the teaser site where it talks about the Player character leading a rebellion against the Romulan Star Empire-I think it's pretty obvious that even many of the non-faction unique episodes will have Romulans killing Romulans.
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    arcademasterarcademaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I think it's pretty obvious that even many of the non-faction unique episodes will have Romulans killing Romulans.

    Iconian-controlled Tal-Shiar Romulans who want to sell out their race into servitude to the Iconians in exchange for helping with Genocide of the entire galaxy... I can live with that.
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    catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Iconian-controlled Tal-Shiar Romulans who want to sell out their race into servitude to the Iconians in exchange for helping with Genocide of the entire galaxy... I can live with that.
    Not just the Tal'Shiar. The Romulan Star Emprie is a seperate entity, often at odds with the Republic, using Sela as an example. Who knows what they will retcon her into though.
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    shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You seem to be forgetting the part on the teaser site where it talks about the Player character leading a rebellion against the Romulan Star Empire-I think it's pretty obvious that even many of the non-faction unique episodes will have Romulans killing Romulans.

    Rebellion against the Star Emire? Hell yeah! I fight for the Republic against an opressive regime. I don't care how many of those mindless drones my Romulan would have to kill. If Cryptic even gives me the chance to blow up Sela in the process, I'm gonna' write to PWE to give the STO dev team a nice fat bonus!
    HQroeLu.jpg
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You seem to be forgetting the part on the teaser site where it talks about the Player character leading a rebellion against the Romulan Star Empire-I think it's pretty obvious that even many of the non-faction unique episodes will have Romulans killing Romulans.

    Which already happens in canon, and is not at all an unusual event in the history of civilization.

    Humans have fought Humans, Klingons have fought Klingons, and Romulans have fought Romulans in the lore. Conceptually, this does not fall outside established canon.
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    catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    Rebellion against the Star Emire? Hell yeah! I fight for the Republic against an opressive regime. I don't care how many of those mindless drones my Romulan would have to kill. If Cryptic even gives me the chance to blow up Sela in the process, I'm gonna' write to PWE to give the STO dev team a nice fat bonus!
    Well then, it's obvious the two of us are of two minds. When I wanted a Romulan faction, I wanted to play as a member of the iconic Star Empire, not destroy it. If I wanted to do that, I'd just use my KDF or Federation characters.
    broadnax wrote: »
    Which already happens in canon, and is not at all an unusual event in the history of civilization.

    Humans have fought Humans, Klingons have fought Klingons, and Romulans have fought Romulans in the lore. Conceptually, this does not fall outside established canon.

    Yeah, and if someone told me that a game was going to let me play as Romans, I'd be pretty upset if it was 1-50 levels of sacking Rome. Romans killed Romans too, after all.

    At any rate, apply that creed to the Federation, what would the Federation be like if you played as a Tal'Shiar agent tearing it apart from the inside, keeping in mind there was no option to play as a loyal federation subject. That's what this is like.
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well then, it's obvious the two of us are of two minds. When I wanted a Romulan faction, I wanted to play as a member of the iconic Star Empire, not destroy it. If I wanted to do that, I'd just use my KDF or Federation characters.

    I can understand this. In the little bit of KDF content we currently have, there are comments, DOFF missions, etc., that reflect what is often viewed as the Klingon "persona" that I fear may be missing from the Romulans.

    The RSE is what I was hoping for as well, but I understand the route they are going and it does not fail the lore, really. We've already seen these factions exist with the Romulan population.

    To define the entire Romulan race by the actions of the oppressive, totalitarian regime in control is really making them a race of cardboard cutouts, instead of a real "people." There are examples in the various ST TV series that show individual Romulans who are not insidious villains, but a easily capable of showing compassion to others.
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    shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well then, it's obvious the two of us are of two minds. When I wanted a Romulan faction, I wanted to play as a member of the iconic Star Empire, not destroy it. If I wanted to do that, I'd just use my KDF or Federation characters.

    I know. But, the combined efforts of J.J. and Cryptic pretty much destroyed RSE. I would actually prefer to be a member of a Romulan faction that is represented by the RSE, but under other terms.
    If I play a Romulan in RSE, I want to fight for my Romulan kinsmen, for the good of the Romulan species as a whole. The way the story developed in STO, fighting under RSE would mean that I should behave like a Borg drone that mindlessly supports Sela to achieve her pathologic desire of power. She'd work with Borg, Iconians or whoever even at expense of the Romulans if it enables her to remain in power.
    I don't want another char. that I'd fell stupid playing, like Fed. chars feel to me in missions where you obviously know something is wrong, but still must act as an idiot because that is the only way to resolve the mission.

    I had no intention of playing a Romulan char. under Sela. However, with how things turned out, I do intend to play in the Republic now.
    Don't get me wrong, I'd choose a pre-Nemessis RSE with the senate and that type of government over the Republic in a heartbeat. But, if I play Romulan, I want to fight for the good of the Romulans, not be a pawn of the Iconians. That's why I dislike the current RSE we have in STO.
    HQroeLu.jpg
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    catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    broadnax wrote: »
    I can understand this. In the little bit of KDF content we currently have, there are comments, DOFF missions, etc., that reflect what is often viewed as the Klingon "persona" that I fear may be missing from the Romulans.

    The RSE is what I was hoping for as well, but I understand the route they are going and it does not fail the lore, really. We've already seen these factions exist with the Romulan population.

    To define the entire Romulan race by the actions of the oppressive, totalitarian regime in control is really making them a race of cardboard cutouts, instead of a real "people." There are examples in the various ST TV series that show individual Romulans who are not insidious villains, but a easily capable of showing compassion to others.
    Yes. Of course. But those exceptions belong as allies in the KDF or FED missions, or enemies in the Romulan faction, not as the Romulan faction itself. The Reunificationists and defectors added flavor to the faction by not making it one sided, but on the other hand, there were Federation and Klingon defectors (mroe Klingon defectors/sympathizers, as a matter of fact) in the shows as well, but it would be inconcievable to replace the entire Klingon faction with a group of Romulan sympathizers with the Klingon empire as a hostile NPC faction. Klingon fans would not stand for it obviously.
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    sandormen123sandormen123 Member Posts: 862 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I want to know when i get to become a federal interloper. I might havevthe fed academy education, but who is to say i ain't a drop-off scavenging mercenary independent outcast mercenary working for S31? Sheesh :rolleyes:
    /Floozy
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Yes. Of course. But those exceptions belong as allies in the KDF or FED missions, or enemies in the Romulan faction, not as the Romulan faction itself. The Reunificationists and defectors added flavor to the faction by not making it one sided, but on the other hand, there were Federation and Klingon defectors (mroe Klingon defectors/sympathizers, as a matter of fact) in the shows as well, but it would be inconcievable to replace the entire Klingon faction with a group of Romulan sympathizers with the Klingon empire as a hostile NPC faction. Klingon fans would not stand for it obviously.

    Understood. But one other thing to consider: We have what we have. The expansion is not going to change at this point. It can't. Perhaps some of these discussions will help guide future growth of the faction (or the development of future factions), but not if we totally alienate dev team now.

    If the content is well written and fun to play, I will enjoy my Romulan characters. I will probably make at least two characters up front; a Reunifactionist and an RSE loyalist. I may run through the Rom content on the Reunifactionist first to see if there is wiggle room to RP the RSE character.

    Perhaps this will give an opening for Foundry authors to make inroads to the Romulan community as well. It would be interesting to see an alternative set of storylines that we can play from the RSE point of view.

    Note that I am primarily a Fed player, but like variety. In the short term, my KDF and Romulan characters will probably get more playtime than my Feds because of the new content. Mainly, I just like to create characters with different backstories and allegiances for the creative aspects and varied gameplay.
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    ussrevravenussrevraven Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    By forcing an alliance with one of the other factions, the Romulans become an extension of that faction. They are not their own independent faction.

    There's nothing wrong with this, but calling it a faction when they clearly are not is disingenuous. Call it what it is, a mini-faction, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. But to claim it is an independent faction like FED/KDF is just incorrect. Call a spade a spade.
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    catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    broadnax wrote: »
    Understood. But one other thing to consider: We have what we have. The expansion is not going to change at this point. It can't. Perhaps some of these discussions will help guide future growth of the faction (or the development of future factions), but not if we totally alienate dev team now.

    If the content is well written and fun to play, I will enjoy my Romulan characters. I will probably make at least two characters up front; a Reunifactionist and an RSE loyalist. I may run through the Rom content on the Reunifactionist first to see if there is wiggle room to RP the RSE character.

    Perhaps this will give an opening for Foundry authors to make inroads to the Romulan community as well. It would be interesting to see an alternative set of storylines that we can play from the RSE point of view.

    Note that I am primarily a Fed player, but like variety. In the short term, my KDF and Romulan characters will probably get more playtime than my Feds because of the new content. Mainly, I just like to create characters with different backstories and allegiances for the creative aspects and varied gameplay.
    I understand that sentiment. However, I do not think that just because it has become set in stone that it should be exempt from criticism. Furthermore, critiquing Cryptics decisions is a fine way to find out for sure that it *is* set in stone-they probably won't respond to criticism, but they definately won't respond to unvoiced ones.

    I am looking forward to othe Foundry for the Romulans, but I recall it being mentioned in another topic that the Romulans would not have a unique foundry of their own? If their Foundry stuff is split between KDF and FED than it may be stunt the productivity of Romulan-specific foundry missions.
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I understand that sentiment. However, I do not think that just because it has become set in stone that it should be exempt from criticism. Furthermore, critiquing Cryptics decisions is a fine way to find out for sure that it *is* set in stone-they probably won't respond to criticism, but they definately won't respond to unvoiced ones.

    I am looking forward to othe Foundry for the Romulans, but I recall it being mentioned in another topic that the Romulans would not have a unique foundry of their own? If their Foundry stuff is split between KDF and FED than it may be stunt the productivity of Romulan-specific foundry missions.

    This is true. I am one who voiced my concerns -- hopefully constructively -- when some of Dastahl's comments made it sound like episodic missions ("one and done") might not be made in the future, in favor of more daily-type content. I harped on it quite a bit.

    Concerns need to be voiced. How we voice them might make a difference in the kind of attention and response we receive.

    For the Foundry, I would hope that they would at least upgrade the search function and perhaps allow us to add Romulan as a searchable tag. But that's a wish on my part.
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    fernandojimenezfernandojimenez Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Let me ask these questions:

    Does the Romulan Faction have Fleet Holdings? - NO
    Does the Romulan Faction have its own exploration system? - NO
    Does the Romulan Faction have its own DOff system? - NO
    Does the Romulan Faction have its own unique endgame experience? - NO

    Based on those questions, let me ask one more:

    Is the Romulan faction a COMPLETE faction, as defined by what the other factions offer?

    NO IT MOST CERTAINLY IS NOT

    /THREAD

    This.

    This Cryptic/PWE Romulan Republic is not the faction I'm looking for. I dont mind cannon, I dont mind new content. I keep playing my true faction FED and KDF chars. I can wait one or two years for a real Romulan faction. No zens for Romulan content till then.
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    nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I honestly don't get why people think that somehow in 2 years cryptic is going to hit the undo button and say this time we'll really make a Romulan faction, because that is just as much of a pipe dream as the original idea.

    You are getting a new tutorial with some green graphics, people are still going to pay stupid amounts for it, until the the shininess wears off and it looks and smells a lot like KDF.
    Delirium Tremens
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    nicha0 wrote: »
    I honestly don't get why people think that somehow in 2 years cryptic is going to hit the undo button and say this time we'll really make a Romulan faction, because that is just as much of a pipe dream as the original idea.

    You are getting a new tutorial with some green graphics, people are still going to pay stupid amounts for it, until the the shininess wears off and it looks and smells a lot like KDF.

    Actually, we are going also going to get 40 levels of Romulan-specific content, we don't *have* to pay anything for it, and the KDF is getting more episode content for a 1-50 leveling faction as well.
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    brigadooombrigadooom Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    broadnax wrote: »
    Actually, we are going also going to get 40 levels of Romulan-specific content, we don't *have* to pay anything for it, and the KDF is getting more episode content for a 1-50 leveling faction as well.

    KDF loves the taste of afterthought.
    ----
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Let me ask these questions:

    Does the Romulan Faction have Fleet Holdings? - NO
    Does the Romulan Faction have its own exploration system? - NO
    Does the Romulan Faction have its own DOff system? - NO
    Does the Romulan Faction have its own unique endgame experience? - NO

    Based on those questions, let me ask one more:

    Is the Romulan faction a COMPLETE faction, as defined by what the other factions offer?

    NO IT MOST CERTAINLY IS NOT

    /THREAD

    Nope, but the four things you listed are not that important to some of us (DOFF system carries some weight for me, the others not so much. Especially since Fed and KDF share some endgame as well). Also, I don't recall them saying there will be no exploration for them, but I might have missed it.

    The faction has it's own characters, uniforms, ships, weapons, equipment, and reportedly fleshed out storyline. Those are by far the most important parts of any faction to me. Hopefully the rest will come over time.

    Cryptic never claimed it had everything that the other two factions have; those assumptions were made by players with no knowledge to base it on. What we are getting is substantially more than what was entailed in the early "mini-faction" discussion, for which I am very glad.
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    broadnaxbroadnax Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    brigadooom wrote: »
    KDF loves the taste of afterthought.

    If that's how you choose to interpret it. It's does seem ironic though after the years of KDF players saying "we need more KDF-specific story content" and then brushing it off when it actually happens.

    If it is real episodic content, you will see more players creating KDF characters (including myself), some of whom will most likely join you in PvP too (not including me. :))
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    misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    broadnax wrote: »
    Nope, but the four things you listed are not that important to some of us (DOFF system carries some weight for me, the others not so much. Especially since Fed and KDF share some endgame as well). Also, I don't recall them saying there will be no exploration for them, but I might have missed it.

    The faction has it's own characters, uniforms, ships, weapons, equipment, and reportedly fleshed out storyline. Those are by far the most important parts of any faction to me. Hopefully the rest will come over time.

    Cryptic never claimed it had everything that the other two factions have; those assumptions were made by players with no knowledge to base it on. What we are getting is substantially more than what was entailed in the early "mini-faction" discussion, for which I am very glad.

    So let me get this straight, just because you don't find it important...it's okay.
    Because when you don't find it important it doesn't matter.:confused:

    It is relevant because these are features that are relevant for the full experience of the faction.
    They are not there so the full experience is missing and thus the full faction is not really there.
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    darkelfofficerdarkelfofficer Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The only PvE missions the Romulans share with Feds or KDF are the Featured Episodes, which were always designed to be faction neutral. You fight devidians, the Dominion, Breen and Borg in those missions, not Klingons of Humans. STFs are against Borg and Undine, possibly new ones with Tholians. That's it.

    The only thing were things might get iffy is fleet events. There would be lot's of easy fixes to get around those for Cryptic to make.

    Stop spewing hate and bile with no solid basis.
    dastahl wrote: »
    When Romulans choose an ally, it means that during specific episodes in the exlusive Romulan storyline, there may be the enemy of your ally in the mission and you might have to fight them to achieve your Romulan goals. For example, if you are a Romulan allied with Klingon, you may have to shoot a few Feds to get what you want.

    Take your own advice.
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