It is baffling to me that in this day and age people still believe there is such a thing as a free lunch.
Cryptic did not make this update expecting not to make money off of it. End of story.
Just like any company, of course they expect to make money. However, it is offered as a FREE update.
They could have easily made it a paid expansion, threw in star bases for Romulans to make, NOT allow Romulans to have access to other faction ships & have to buy their own fleet ships, but they didn't.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not fond of the Rom/ship thing & in the future I would like to see Romulans get their own starbases, etc, but, just like ANY product, it is up to the customer if they want to buy or not.
And right now, the FREE sample, has probably got a lot too it If I want a Reman, that's when you start to pay (and even that's not entirely true).
Pretending that STO is some sort of charity and is automatically immune from criticism is laughable. How many millions of dollars have Cryptic made off this game to date?
Even if you are F2P, every time you convert zen from dilithium on the exchange, you are contributing monetary value to the game.
The Romulan Expansion, as part of this game is not immune from criticism. If you have contributed anything to the game at all, you have earned the right to voice your opinion.
Cryptic has very clearly screwed up a number of things about the Romulan faction. Soem healthy criticism is in order, I think.
I have no problem with them acting like a business. I have a problem with people saying we should we should be grateful for whatever we get because "They made this out of a spirit of charity", which is exactly what
is.
Paraphrase my quotes into what you like, you only reveal yourself to be the bitter, sad type I was talking about.
They ARE giving us the expansion FREE for the CHANCE to sell us something. So yes, they did do a LOAD of work for nothing more than a hope that the community will purchase some items.
Resume being ungrateful and complain more on the forums, I'm sure it will accomplish whatever purpose you have in mind. I've said the last I'm gonna to you on this subject as it is pointless.
Op this is a pathetic attempt to get around a 53 page discussion here http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8937171&posted=1#post8937171 that is already happening on this very subject. Just because you think it, does not mean its true. I go by lore, and the lore says, this story is not possible. No its not a faction of its own, if it is reliant upon the good graces of two other factions. I can go down a list of mmos to show how insane your statement is.
Lets start with World of ********, or known as wow, you have the horde and the alliance. Do you think people in wow would consider the Horde a faction, if half its story/gameplay was based upon the horde having to help the Alliance or say the burning legion fight the scourge. I think its obvious to everyone the horde players would not sit down for that or for that matter consider the horde a complete faction. Not to mention the rage over such a thing as having to pick either the Alliance or the Burning Legion.
Lets take another one Star wars the old republic. Lets say the Sith Empire had to choose between serving the Republic, or the Hutts, in order to survive? A Empire based on stand alone, and brute strength. Do you think people would consider the Sith Empire a complete faction? Do you think they would sit down for being forced to help the Republic?
To me at least the problem has been identified. Now its up to the devs to do two things. A go back and rewrite the story of the Romulans so they stand alone, and rightfully so. Or B gives some information, that gives us hope that at some point, the Romulans break away from the Federation and Klingons and stand on their own. Maybe even reforge the star empire.
The "Alliance" thing is just a smokescreen to obfuscate the fact that Romulans are getting rolled into the pre-existing factions.
Even after Cryptic has gone back and revamped old missions, added new rewards, added in faction stations, you are saying this Expansion is a ruse? It sounds like you are just not satisfied that you didn't get what you wanted right this moment.
Even after Cryptic has gone back and revamped old missions, added new rewards.
don't make it sound like its more then it is only a hand full of mission that got that then they just stop doing them so again don't make it sound like they did it to every fed mission in the game that didnt have voice overs
I am happy to see ANY new content come to the game -- and I think that the Romulan content (notice I did not say "faction") is progress, IMO.
However...calling it a faction is not realistic. If it is a faction, then it is a faction that owes its loyalty to either the Feds or the Klingons, and is in fact in a perpetual state of civil war...a civil war with no home starbases, no home fleets, and fueled by the enemies of the RSE...and the remnants of the RSE are embracing it with open arms. Romulan ships will be fighting Romulan ships in Fed vs. KDF PvP -- they are the ONLY "faction" that has this issue. You don't see Klingon vessels fighting for the Feds...or vice versa -- but you WILL see Romulan vessels doing exactly that.
That is the role play aspect...the pragmatic aspect is that Cryptic -- for whatever reason -- went through a decision making process and came up with this as their solution. They wanted a major expansion -- something new -- and Romulans are extremely popular as a playable race -- far more popular than what some folks may realize.
The best you are going to get for a Romulan faction is the possibility of setting up a Romulan race only fleet in either the KDF or Federation -- then you can role play as a faction to some extent...but will be unable to further the cause of the RSE in any meaningful fashion, because your existance as a fleet will be dependent -- still -- on either the Feds or the KDF.
It is just new content for fed & kling factions,there is none third or romulan faction
LoR should to be about rebuilding Romulan Star Empire,liberating Donatra from borg collective ,confronting Sela & madness of Tal Shiar,claiming Vulcan as new romulan homeworld...
I'm going to do this crazy thing and actually wait until I see it before I jump to conclusions.
anyone with a lick of sense knew that the romulans would not turn up as a 100% complete faction. they have said and suggested many different types of ways the faction could turn up with connections to the other factions. even players have suggested this, while some players did not even think a third faction would ever turn up. yet people are now getting upset that its not perfect at its launch, even having not played a single piece of it yet.
I realistically expected them to be no better off than the klingons at launch but it sounds like me are getting much much more than that but there are some compromises as well.
so lets wait and see how it plays and feels, and how much impact all this 'alliance stuff' has or does not have on gameplay and if there are any future plans to change this in a later update before everyone declares what the faction is or is not.
Anyone with a lick of sense knew that the romulans would not turn up as a 100% complete faction.
Having lurked these forums off and on since I first started playing, I can honestly say that, at least in General Discussion areas, you're asking a lot of the forum-goers.
Also, waiting until you've tried something to form an opinion on it?! You're mad! MAD, I tell you! :P
LoR should to be about rebuilding Romulan Star Empire,liberating Donatra from borg collective ,confronting Sela & madness of Tal Shiar,claiming Vulcan as new romulan homeworld...
Did you read the "Ask Cryptic: Legacy of Romulus" because I suggest you re-read it carefully
They have their own ships, their own missions, their own gear, their own faction.
The Klingons and Feds wont be able to play the new missions, or with the new ships you know!
Actually kdf and Feds can play the missions if you invite a member of the faction you've chosen to group. But still they aren't a real faction. Otherwise they would stand alone!
Do all Fed players PvP? No.
Do all KDF players PvP? No.
Are all Fed players in a fleet? No.
Are all KDF players in a fleet? No.
Do all fleets choose to work on Starbases? No.
.
Let me ask you a question. Do all existing factions get the oppertunity to do so? Yes.
Gameplay features aside you really want to play for a sub faction other people make fun of and don't respect - you are here trying to convince people to respect it right.
So it's not like it isn't effecting you so saying it's all fine it's cleary not, not even for you.
I'm content to wait until the update before ripping it apart.
But as it is now, I like the idea. I like that I can enjoy all the new content through a single toon if I ally myself to the KDF and I like that I don't have to grind a new fleet star base on top of rep systems and levelling in order to get decent equipment.
It also makes sense from a plot point of view, it makes sense that this new republic is not a full faction because it simply isn't one yet. As far as the Rommies in game are concerned they have rejected the Empire and are still in the process of settling into their new home, they aren't in any condition to have starbases, shipyards and all the other comforts of established factions.
Perhaps in the future, once the republic have gained enough territory and resources to become independent, Cryptic would then decide to buff them up into a full faction? This would depend on interest from the players of course, otherwise they'll go the way of the KDF.
But yeah, I don't get all the fuss myself. I reckon it'll be easier if everyone just held back concerns until we actually have an update to criticise.
I cant understand what people are getting upset about, Cryptic gave you some Romulan stuff, why people expected this to be a full on faction on the level of a fully grown expansion pack after Cryptic past record is beyond me.
I have no idea where people were getting these idea's from.
The Romulan Republic is far too young and fragile to waste what little resources it has fighting in a feud between Fed. & KDF, while more dangerous enemies are lurking around New Romulus.
Right .
So instead of staying home to eradicate those said dangerous foes , they trot around the galaxy in Fed and KDF ships , waste what Rommy ships they have left , while at the same time they can't seem to be able to take out Tal Shiar agents that are in running distance of their New Romulus encampment -- and have Fed's and Klingons doing that 'dangerous work' .
And this makes sense to you .
TBH, I'm just waiting for the moment in one of the following two seasons after "Legacy of Romulus" when they introduce something badass as the Iconians and make us all shake hands, kiss & make-up and join forces against them.
At this rate the Iconians will NEVER invade .
(too much work for Cryptic)
But on the bright side , Cryptic want's to 'explore' (read: muck up) the Delta quadrant and ... maybe they have plans for a Cardassian Faction to butcher ?
Its weird you guys waste so many words on it. Where was this outrage where Feds got a carrier that looks like a flying phallus in space. Where was this outrage when 80% of the Fed population decided "ill look anything like a federation captain" You cant ignore all that TRIBBLE, and then whine when you get a romulan faction with a whole lot of things lacking. Welcome to a game made by cryptic. A week after that expansion is out its back to Kirk Middleaged Zealots shouting for T5 Connies and things will be back to whatever normal is for these forums.
The only gripe i have with the upcoming rommies is that i cant play a Hunter. But cant have everything i suppose.
If people look at it in context of the already established background missions in STO, they way Cryptic has gone and implemented them is the only logical way. New Romulus is the only stable faction that exists after the disapperance of Sela, and they only survive at the mercy and with the help of both the Feds and the KDF.
The rest of the former empire has fallen into civil war and there is simply no faction left that they could have formed a "true" faction that could rival either the Federation or the Klingons.
That I can understand .
The unreal justifications I read of the twisting of Romulans to a point where they are no longer resemble anything we came to know and love about them -- that I can't understand .
"You know, in some ways, you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation."
-Lt. Commander Michael Eddington (who might have been speaking to the Cryptic team ...)
Forums: "We want Romulans!! You had better let us start Klingons at level 1 too!!"
Cryptic: "Hey guys, we worked our tails off and guess what? We have Romulans! We also filled out Klingon leveling. Can't show ya everything yet, but here's a peek."
Forums: "But my end-game is going to be Fed Diplomacy or KDF Marauding? Or PvP'ing against other Romulans in a war that isn't ours? And playing the same STFs I've already played a zillion times on my Fed/KDF? And grinding three Reputation systems one of which I now have to finish if I want the second playable race in my faction? And I can't make a fleet - not a starbase - with another Romulan if she's KDF and I'm Fed? And these Romulans aren't the ones from the shows or the movies? What've you been spending all the money I gave you in the form of an LTS and lots of Zen purchases? Re-skinning the KDF??"
ME: Thank you Cryptic for your hard work and efforts. Shiny, insubstantial things make me happy.
You know the definitions of neither "neutral" nor "alliance." You are either ignoring, or do not understand, the political ramifications of a state blatantly supplying their own fighting forces to both sides in a shooting conflict. That's not even getting into said government allowing their military commanders to decide such foreign policy on their own whim. (Hint: It would never, ever happen in any state with a functioning government.)
What part of "they will not be supplying their forces to any side in the Fed. & KDF conflict" don't you understand?
They are allied to both, they will work together with both against the bigger threats in the quadrant because that is what the Romulans are concerned with, not the war between the Federation and the Empire. You get the freedom to choose side, because it would be stupid if Cryptic made D'Tan gave you the orders - every new Rom. helps Fed., every second one - KDF! If they were concerning themselves with this war, they would have just picked a side at the start od Season 7 and be done with it instead of trying to sway both to help them rebuild.
I said it in my first post in this thread, I don't consider the PvP as a relevant issue storywise. And obviously neither does Cryptic, so why should I?
What about joining forces in the Omega force for Feds. & KDF? Is that natural?
How about Bajor - a member world of the Federation let's the KDF forces, a military installation they are at war with, land on their planet and use their space-station? How could that happen in the natural way of things?
Your failure is in trying to apply RL circumistances into a game.
What part of "they will not be supplying their forces to any side in the Fed. & KDF conflict" don't you understand?
They are allied to both, they will work together with both against the bigger threats in the quadrant because that is what the Romulans are concerned with, not the war between the Federation and the Empire. You get the freedom to choose side, because it would be stupid if Cryptic made D'Tan gave you the orders - every new Rom. helps Fed., every second one - KDF! If they were concerning themselves with this war, they would have just picked a side at the start od Season 7 and be done with it instead of trying to sway both to help them rebuild.
I said it in my first post in this thread, I don't consider the PvP as a relevant issue storywise. And obviously neither does Cryptic, so why should I?
What about joining forces in the Omega force for Feds. & KDF? Is that natural?
How about Bajor - a member world of the Federation let's the KDF forces, a military installation they are at war with, land on their planet and use their space-station? How could that happen in the natural way of things?
Your failure is in trying to apply RL circumistances into a game.
It was stated by dstahl that you have to choose a side in the war. And since that war is kdf vs fed your gonna end up fighting yourselves as player romulans. Which makes no sense what so ever. They aren't neutral!l they aren't even a united faction and neutral with themselves.
Every1 doing a cross faction alliances to fight the Borg makes sense as your all trying to prevent total annihilation and being assimilated in to the Borg collective.
Comments
Just like any company, of course they expect to make money. However, it is offered as a FREE update.
They could have easily made it a paid expansion, threw in star bases for Romulans to make, NOT allow Romulans to have access to other faction ships & have to buy their own fleet ships, but they didn't.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not fond of the Rom/ship thing & in the future I would like to see Romulans get their own starbases, etc, but, just like ANY product, it is up to the customer if they want to buy or not.
And right now, the FREE sample, has probably got a lot too it If I want a Reman, that's when you start to pay (and even that's not entirely true).
Even if you are F2P, every time you convert zen from dilithium on the exchange, you are contributing monetary value to the game.
The Romulan Expansion, as part of this game is not immune from criticism. If you have contributed anything to the game at all, you have earned the right to voice your opinion.
Cryptic has very clearly screwed up a number of things about the Romulan faction. Soem healthy criticism is in order, I think.
Paraphrase my quotes into what you like, you only reveal yourself to be the bitter, sad type I was talking about.
They ARE giving us the expansion FREE for the CHANCE to sell us something. So yes, they did do a LOAD of work for nothing more than a hope that the community will purchase some items.
Resume being ungrateful and complain more on the forums, I'm sure it will accomplish whatever purpose you have in mind. I've said the last I'm gonna to you on this subject as it is pointless.
Cosmetic Only Faction.
Lets start with World of ********, or known as wow, you have the horde and the alliance. Do you think people in wow would consider the Horde a faction, if half its story/gameplay was based upon the horde having to help the Alliance or say the burning legion fight the scourge. I think its obvious to everyone the horde players would not sit down for that or for that matter consider the horde a complete faction. Not to mention the rage over such a thing as having to pick either the Alliance or the Burning Legion.
Lets take another one Star wars the old republic. Lets say the Sith Empire had to choose between serving the Republic, or the Hutts, in order to survive? A Empire based on stand alone, and brute strength. Do you think people would consider the Sith Empire a complete faction? Do you think they would sit down for being forced to help the Republic?
To me at least the problem has been identified. Now its up to the devs to do two things. A go back and rewrite the story of the Romulans so they stand alone, and rightfully so. Or B gives some information, that gives us hope that at some point, the Romulans break away from the Federation and Klingons and stand on their own. Maybe even reforge the star empire.
Even after Cryptic has gone back and revamped old missions, added new rewards, added in faction stations, you are saying this Expansion is a ruse? It sounds like you are just not satisfied that you didn't get what you wanted right this moment.
don't make it sound like its more then it is only a hand full of mission that got that then they just stop doing them so again don't make it sound like they did it to every fed mission in the game that didnt have voice overs
system Lord Baal is dead
I am happy to see ANY new content come to the game -- and I think that the Romulan content (notice I did not say "faction") is progress, IMO.
However...calling it a faction is not realistic. If it is a faction, then it is a faction that owes its loyalty to either the Feds or the Klingons, and is in fact in a perpetual state of civil war...a civil war with no home starbases, no home fleets, and fueled by the enemies of the RSE...and the remnants of the RSE are embracing it with open arms. Romulan ships will be fighting Romulan ships in Fed vs. KDF PvP -- they are the ONLY "faction" that has this issue. You don't see Klingon vessels fighting for the Feds...or vice versa -- but you WILL see Romulan vessels doing exactly that.
That is the role play aspect...the pragmatic aspect is that Cryptic -- for whatever reason -- went through a decision making process and came up with this as their solution. They wanted a major expansion -- something new -- and Romulans are extremely popular as a playable race -- far more popular than what some folks may realize.
The best you are going to get for a Romulan faction is the possibility of setting up a Romulan race only fleet in either the KDF or Federation -- then you can role play as a faction to some extent...but will be unable to further the cause of the RSE in any meaningful fashion, because your existance as a fleet will be dependent -- still -- on either the Feds or the KDF.
It is just new content for fed & kling factions,there is none third or romulan faction
anyone with a lick of sense knew that the romulans would not turn up as a 100% complete faction. they have said and suggested many different types of ways the faction could turn up with connections to the other factions. even players have suggested this, while some players did not even think a third faction would ever turn up. yet people are now getting upset that its not perfect at its launch, even having not played a single piece of it yet.
I realistically expected them to be no better off than the klingons at launch but it sounds like me are getting much much more than that but there are some compromises as well.
so lets wait and see how it plays and feels, and how much impact all this 'alliance stuff' has or does not have on gameplay and if there are any future plans to change this in a later update before everyone declares what the faction is or is not.
Having lurked these forums off and on since I first started playing, I can honestly say that, at least in General Discussion areas, you're asking a lot of the forum-goers.
Also, waiting until you've tried something to form an opinion on it?! You're mad! MAD, I tell you! :P
Ok here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDWPXLP0ojw
Did you read the "Ask Cryptic: Legacy of Romulus" because I suggest you re-read it carefully
They have their own ships, their own missions, their own gear, their own faction.
The Klingons and Feds wont be able to play the new missions, or with the new ships you know!
Actually kdf and Feds can play the missions if you invite a member of the faction you've chosen to group. But still they aren't a real faction. Otherwise they would stand alone!
Let me ask you a question. Do all existing factions get the oppertunity to do so? Yes.
Gameplay features aside you really want to play for a sub faction other people make fun of and don't respect - you are here trying to convince people to respect it right.
So it's not like it isn't effecting you so saying it's all fine it's cleary not, not even for you.
But as it is now, I like the idea. I like that I can enjoy all the new content through a single toon if I ally myself to the KDF and I like that I don't have to grind a new fleet star base on top of rep systems and levelling in order to get decent equipment.
It also makes sense from a plot point of view, it makes sense that this new republic is not a full faction because it simply isn't one yet. As far as the Rommies in game are concerned they have rejected the Empire and are still in the process of settling into their new home, they aren't in any condition to have starbases, shipyards and all the other comforts of established factions.
Perhaps in the future, once the republic have gained enough territory and resources to become independent, Cryptic would then decide to buff them up into a full faction? This would depend on interest from the players of course, otherwise they'll go the way of the KDF.
But yeah, I don't get all the fuss myself. I reckon it'll be easier if everyone just held back concerns until we actually have an update to criticise.
So where are all those ships coming from? Produced by klingons and federation?
Everything you say undermines the romulan faction including them being a minority in comparison to the real romulans who still have the resources.
Storywise and in terms of immersion this totally breaks the game. If there is a group of real romulans that's who I want to play as.
I have no idea where people were getting these idea's from.
Right .
So instead of staying home to eradicate those said dangerous foes , they trot around the galaxy in Fed and KDF ships , waste what Rommy ships they have left , while at the same time they can't seem to be able to take out Tal Shiar agents that are in running distance of their New Romulus encampment -- and have Fed's and Klingons doing that 'dangerous work' .
And this makes sense to you .
At this rate the Iconians will NEVER invade .
(too much work for Cryptic)
But on the bright side , Cryptic want's to 'explore' (read: muck up) the Delta quadrant and ... maybe they have plans for a Cardassian Faction to butcher ?
The only gripe i have with the upcoming rommies is that i cant play a Hunter. But cant have everything i suppose.
The rest of the former empire has fallen into civil war and there is simply no faction left that they could have formed a "true" faction that could rival either the Federation or the Klingons.
1-10 might be Romulan .
10-40 is the sellout far fetched perverted version of a Romulan .
Have Fun .
My character Tsin'xing
That I can understand .
The unreal justifications I read of the twisting of Romulans to a point where they are no longer resemble anything we came to know and love about them -- that I can't understand .
"You know, in some ways, you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation."
-Lt. Commander Michael Eddington (who might have been speaking to the Cryptic team ...)
Just another way to look at it
What part of "they will not be supplying their forces to any side in the Fed. & KDF conflict" don't you understand?
They are allied to both, they will work together with both against the bigger threats in the quadrant because that is what the Romulans are concerned with, not the war between the Federation and the Empire. You get the freedom to choose side, because it would be stupid if Cryptic made D'Tan gave you the orders - every new Rom. helps Fed., every second one - KDF! If they were concerning themselves with this war, they would have just picked a side at the start od Season 7 and be done with it instead of trying to sway both to help them rebuild.
I said it in my first post in this thread, I don't consider the PvP as a relevant issue storywise. And obviously neither does Cryptic, so why should I?
What about joining forces in the Omega force for Feds. & KDF? Is that natural?
How about Bajor - a member world of the Federation let's the KDF forces, a military installation they are at war with, land on their planet and use their space-station? How could that happen in the natural way of things?
Your failure is in trying to apply RL circumistances into a game.
The Romulan Fraction is already a sad joke.
It was stated by dstahl that you have to choose a side in the war. And since that war is kdf vs fed your gonna end up fighting yourselves as player romulans. Which makes no sense what so ever. They aren't neutral!l they aren't even a united faction and neutral with themselves.
Every1 doing a cross faction alliances to fight the Borg makes sense as your all trying to prevent total annihilation and being assimilated in to the Borg collective.