Pride has traditionally been a political event. The presence of this blog post is an endorsement by Cryptic of a political event, whether they meant for that to be the case or not.
I am in complete agreement with those that feel this blog is inappropriate. Cryptic is endorsing one group of people over others, and one fleet over others. Last I checked there were multiple LGBT fleets in game, why aren't they included, or even mentioned?
If this fleet wants to throw themselves a pride party and open the invite up to all STO players, then all power to them. However the details of their party and the invite should have been made in the General Discussion forum, not the official blog post section. I suggest this blog post be moved to that forum.
Oh and before anyone cries "Cryptic isn't endorsing anything", they are. Guest blogs don't just appear out of thin air by anyone. They have to be submitted, and signed off by someone at Cryptic/PWE in order to be added to the website.
The primary thesis of the blog was about diversity and the Star Trek franchise, not TRIBBLE pride, a fact which you seem to have missed.
The fleet's pride event only occupied a single paragraph of the entire blog posting. Advertising a fleet-sponsored social event that related to the theme of the blog posting in return for the hard work of researching and submitting the blog is reasonable.
I agree whole heartedly with the message of acceptance, equality and community that Star Trek has fostered in all of it's incarnations. The vision of a unified society where humans are equal simply because they are human is a noble one, each of us should seek to emulate a similar level of acceptance toward our fellows.
As an important part of my self-identity I am God fearing man who believes that what the Bible says is true and relevant. I also believe that when it says; "love your neighbor as yourself" and "in the eyes of God all men are equal" those statements are full and complete.
If our neighbors are; German or Indian, homosexual or heterosexual, Christian or Hindu, or any other combination of race, faith and orientation we must remember that those are words that describe PEOPLE.
I am a heterosexual Christian man and I believe that everyone has the right to live peacefully and happily in the manner they so choose and that all people are no more or less equal than any others.
It is interesting that Cryptic features something on their front page that cannot, by its own forum rules, be discussed (objected to) on the forums.
Whole countries are run that way, I might add.
Show me where in the forum rules it states you cannot discuss a blog entry about diversity.
So long as you are not abusive or derogatory toward another poster's race, ethnicity, religion, orientation, et cetera, I believe there is no violation of the rules for the STO forum.
Perhaps you meant to write that you cannot discuss it because your point of view is derogatory toward other posters' race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, et cetera?
It is interesting that Cryptic features something on their front page that cannot, by its own forum rules, be discussed (objected to) on the forums.
Whole countries are run that way, I might add.
Actually, if you feel unable to discuss it then you're only wanting to use "hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations" in your post. As those are what is not allowed. Objecting to something is not disallowed, as can be seen by the few who have objected in this thread. There is a difference between objecting to something and being hateful, discriminatory or denigrating.
Not that I can understand how anybody who claims to be a fan of Star Trek could in any way have pause on this subject.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Show me where in the forum rules it states you cannot discuss a blog entry about diversity.
Spamming
You may not create posts which contain:
...
Posting of off-topic comments, including but not limited to comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature.
Like it or not, this whole thing is of a political nature, as bluegeek pointed out early on. Now, I would have no problem with that section of the rules being reduced to simply, "Posting off-topic comments," I think we can have free and open discussion and so long as threads are kept on topic and in the right forum everyone can be happy. But that's not what it says, it says that any "comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature" are automatically in violation. That means that any discussion of the subject of that gust blog is in violation.
Like it or not, this whole thing is of a political nature, as bluegeek pointed out early on. Now, I would have no problem with that section of the rules being reduced to simply, "Posting off-topic comments," I think we can have free and open discussion and so long as threads are kept on topic and in the right forum everyone can be happy. But that's not what it says, it says that any "comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature" are automatically in violation. That means that any discussion of the subject of that gust blog is in violation.
It's not politics. In the real world, discussing TRIBBLE rights, that's politics. This blog discusses Star Trek's message of peace, understanding and acceptance. Then mentions the fact they are holding a Pride celebration on the server next weekend. It's not discussing their views on sexuality, or asking for a discussion on that matter.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
To me this whole thing seems like a reaction from Cryptic/PWE for the backlash of choosing Towelliee for last week's giveaway event. Instead of saying "Oh we love diversity", to me it came out "sorry we put a TRIBBLE hater last week, how about some pro LGBT guys this week".
Like it or not, this whole thing is of a political nature, as bluegeek pointed out early on. Now, I would have no problem with that section of the rules being reduced to simply, "Posting off-topic comments," I think we can have free and open discussion and so long as threads are kept on topic and in the right forum everyone can be happy. But that's not what it says, it says that any "comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature" are automatically in violation. That means that any discussion of the subject of that gust blog is in violation.
I am fairly certain that the intention of the rule about politics is specifically meant to address political discussion directly and solely relating to current events and not directly relating to the game or franchise or to discussions of a strongly partisan nature.
I do not believe that discussing, for instance, how Star Trek directly relates to current and past social and cultural issues (such as racism, sexism, and homophobia), how the Ferengi were created as an indictment of unregulated capitalism, or how Sir Patrick Stewart was knighted by the Queen is against the rules.
I believe the ban on political chat refers specifically to current events and other similar issues with no direct connection to the game or the Star Trek franchise.
Society these days...
What month is white history month?
When is straight-pride month?
Can I just be American-American?
I seem to be getting lost in the shuffle!
We are becoming more and more of an exclusionist society each and every day, and now it is bleeding into my gaming which is truly appalling. The ones who are telling you this is a celebration of 'IDIC' do not realize they are being exclusionists themselves. They will say, "no we aren't, you are free to come join us" to which my response would be "no thanks, I will wait for the 'We are all people' celebration".
It's not politics. In the real world, discussing TRIBBLE rights, that's politics. This blog discusses Star Trek's message of peace, understanding and acceptance. Then mentions the fact they are holding a Pride celebration on the server next weekend. It's not discussing their views on sexuality, or asking for a discussion on that matter.
Are you comfortable with other expresions of Pride in the interest of diversity? Latino Pride? Black Pride? White Pride? Straight Pride? Female Pride? Male Pride? Opening the door to these things means your are making choices on views to endorse. Some are more politically acceptable than others. I seriously doubt we will see anything from the alternative viewpoints and that means that far from expressing diversity, you are actually restricting and supressing diversity of opinion. The best way to celebrate diversity is by endorsing everything by not making public advertisements in favor of specific groups.
It's not politics. In the real world, discussing TRIBBLE rights, that's politics. This blog discusses Star Trek's message of peace, understanding and acceptance. Then mentions the fact they are holding a Pride celebration on the server next weekend. It's not discussing their views on sexuality, or asking for a discussion on that matter.
It's very very evident from any degree of analysis of the blog that the goal is to promote their TRIBBLE pride event and present it as the logical continuation of Trek's long history of social progressivism. So the blog itself is clearly designed to promote an event with a specific political purpose, which is equivalent to promoting that political purpose. If you can't see that you're making a deliberate effort not to.
Are you comfortable with other expresions of Pride in the interest of diversity? Latino Pride? Black Pride? White Pride? Straight Pride? Female Pride? Male Pride? Opening the door to these things means your are making choices on views to endorse. Some are more politically acceptable than others. I seriously doubt we will see anything from the alternative viewpoints and that means that far from expressing diversity, you are actually restricting and supressing diversity of opinion. The best way to celebrate diversity is by endorsing everything by not making public advertisements in favor of specific groups.
Actually, I do support the expression of pride in anybodies identity. What I have a problem with is when people express their hate for other groups of people. Taking pride in who you are is not the same thing.
I suppress nobody by expressing my comfort with who I am and what my sexuality is so that is totally acceptable. If somebody wanted to celebrate Latino pride day, then by all means go ahead, so long as they don't turn it into a "Latino's are better than every other person" day, because that's not the same thing at all. Be proud of who you are, without belittling who other people are.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
The ignorance on display in this thread is exactly the reason why topics like this should be encouraged. Thank you, Cryptic, for being stand-up and putting this topic out in the open where bigots can't hide from it anymore. And thank you for giving those same bigots an opportunity to identify themselves for all to see.
Actually, if you feel unable to discuss it then you're only wanting to use "hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations" in your post. As those are what is not allowed.
Case in point. You see my objection and automatically label me a hateful, discriminating bigot and therefore, I shouldn't be allowed to voice said objection. Do not paint me with your brush.
Was really liking the majority of the posts until the "this is not an appropriate place for such things" people showed up.
No one is forcing you to go. You don't even have to be in the same freaking zone. This was a blog discussing the evolution of diversity and acceptance and you decided it come here to make a counter argument that amounts to little more than "how dare you bring such talk here!?"
The blog talked about the first interracial kiss on TV, your predecessors probably wrote tons of letters to the airing stations and network saying pretty much the same thing.
Cryptic wanted to show that they support equality and chose to use their product (STO), which just happens to be based on the whole theory of diverse groups working together, to send out their message.
Nothing bad is going to come from this blog or the event it talked about.
Actually, I do support the expression of pride in anybodies identity. What I have a problem with is when people express their hate for other groups of people. Taking pride in who you are is not the same thing.
I suppress nobody by expressing my comfort with who I am and what my sexuality is so that is totally acceptable. If somebody wanted to celebrate Latino pride day, then by all means go ahead, so long as they don't turn it into a "Latino's are better than every other person" day, because that's not the same thing at all. Be proud of who you are, without belittling who other people are.
But see, there is the rub. Many by the definition you give say it is impossible to have a Latino Pride, African Pride, White Pride, Straight Pride, Female Pride, Male Pride discussion or display because by the definition expression of pride in these things belittles another group that was oppressed or wronged by some of these other groups. You say you are open to it but they rarely if ever occur because the fringe beliefs by a small segment destroy it and prevent it from occuring as it taints the vast majority. We see it in this thread as many who are expressing uncomfortableness or opposition with this event are being painted as bigots or hatemongers regardless of our actual viewpoint. In reality, there is no openness to these viewpoints because they are seen as hostile, therefore only the politically acceptable viewpoints such as the TRIBBLE, transgender, transsexual, TRIBBLE, pride type organizations are able to publically hold these events.
You know why it's in your face as some like to say...becasue when you suppress something it's going to to come back, when you push a group of people down, they are going to push back, and push harder and harder, and they are going to throw it in your face becasue that's what you create when you try to silence them, and demonize them.
as for people saying Hetero day....everyday is Hetero day
Agreed. No need to drag things like this into a game that is basically just about blowing stuff up. I'd rather have a videogame forum be devoid of politics, sexual preferences, religion or any other of those things.
I couldn't agree more. This issue of gender preference is just inappropriate for a game that does not address any such issue or include it as a mechanic of gameplay. I'm all for being anything you want to be. What I am not for is needlessly inciting argument where the subject is not even applicable.
A game developer allowing someone to further an unrelated socio-political agenda on their front page looks extremely unprofessional.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
You know why it's in your face as some like to say...becasue when you suppress something it's going to to come back, when you push a group of people down, they are going to push back, and push harder and harder, and they are going to throw it in your face becasue that's what you create when you try to silence them, and demonize them.
To me this whole thing seems like a reaction from Cryptic/PWE for the backlash of choosing Towelliee for last week's giveaway event. Instead of saying "Oh we love diversity", to me it came out "sorry we put a TRIBBLE hater last week, how about some pro LGBT guys this week".
You are making a lot of sense.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Case in point. You see my objection and automatically label me a hateful, discriminating bigot and therefore, I shouldn't be allowed to voice said objection. Do not paint me with your brush.
I will speak for myself, thank you.
I was basing my assertion on the fact you said you couldn't discuss it. When in fact, you can discuss it so long as you don't do or say any of the things that violate the terms of use for the forums. That's not me labelling you, I don't know you from Adam. That's me making a logical deduction from the facts available to me.
But see, there is the rub. Many by the definition you give say it is impossible to have a Latino Pride, African Pride, White Pride, Straight Pride, Female Pride, Male Pride discussion or display because by the definition expression of pride in these things belittles another group that was oppressed or wronged by some of these other groups. You say you are open to it but they rarely if ever occur because the fringe beliefs by a small segment destroy it and prevent it from occuring as it taints the vast majority. We see it in this thread as many who are expressing uncomfortableness or opposition with this event are being painted as bigots or hatemongers regardless of our actual viewpoint. In reality, there is no openness to these viewpoints because they are seen as hostile, therefore only the politically acceptable viewpoints such as the TRIBBLE, transgender, transsexual, TRIBBLE, pride type organizations are able to publically hold these events.
To be fair, the minority groups tend to be the ones to celebrate, because they are the ones who have been oppressed in the past (and often still are in the present). There is a "Woman's Day", which is celebrated by millions across the globe each year, TV stations, Websites, communities all take part in this day. That doesn't mean they are saying that women are better than men, they are doing it to remember that women were not always treated as equals to men and that they still aren't in many places around the world. I doubt if PWE decided to post an article or event related to Woman's Day, the responses would have been anything but positive.
When we are all treated and accepted as equals across the world, perhaps then the 'majority' groups would be able to celebrate their own identities without the prejudice associated with it currently.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Ok, the USS Mother Monster is just awesome. Bug ship? My recognition skills are pretty sub-par so I am probably wrong .
If I didn't think it'd get me reported I'd probably make a ship called the TRIBBLE Agenda after reading the rest of this thread though . Have to use rainbow BFAW spam though.
Society these days...
What month is white history month?
When is straight-pride month?
Can I just be American-American?
I seem to be getting lost in the shuffle!
We are becoming more and more of an exclusionist society each and every day, and now it is bleeding into my gaming which is truly appalling. The ones who are telling you this is a celebration of 'IDIC' do not realize they are being exclusionists themselves. They will say, "no we aren't, you are free to come join us" to which my response would be "no thanks, I will wait for the 'We are all people' celebration".
I do not believe history supports your thesis. I doubt many have any objection to "white history month" or "straight-pride month" prima facie. The question is: where do these celebrations emerge from? What is the historical reason for their creation?
Events such as pride day originated out of the dark and not too distant history of oppression. They were created by minority communities as a beacon of light against the umbra of bigotry and continue today as a celebration of all the hard work that was done in the past to ensure that minorities today have an equal place in society.
I am not sure what "white pride month" or "straight pride month" would celebrate, but it certainly would be something very different. However, I would love to see, for instance, a fleet organize a Europeans in Star Trek celebration in-game and post about it in the blog. That would conjure up a very different image than the "white pride" celebration you advocate.
Comments
The primary thesis of the blog was about diversity and the Star Trek franchise, not TRIBBLE pride, a fact which you seem to have missed.
The fleet's pride event only occupied a single paragraph of the entire blog posting. Advertising a fleet-sponsored social event that related to the theme of the blog posting in return for the hard work of researching and submitting the blog is reasonable.
Logic should always work!
Cheers!
Order of the Silver Star, -OSS-
*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*
As an important part of my self-identity I am God fearing man who believes that what the Bible says is true and relevant. I also believe that when it says; "love your neighbor as yourself" and "in the eyes of God all men are equal" those statements are full and complete.
If our neighbors are; German or Indian, homosexual or heterosexual, Christian or Hindu, or any other combination of race, faith and orientation we must remember that those are words that describe PEOPLE.
I am a heterosexual Christian man and I believe that everyone has the right to live peacefully and happily in the manner they so choose and that all people are no more or less equal than any others.
And please, have a very nice day.
Whole countries are run that way, I might add.
LOL I wholeheartedly agree with you.:D
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Show me where in the forum rules it states you cannot discuss a blog entry about diversity.
So long as you are not abusive or derogatory toward another poster's race, ethnicity, religion, orientation, et cetera, I believe there is no violation of the rules for the STO forum.
Perhaps you meant to write that you cannot discuss it because your point of view is derogatory toward other posters' race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, et cetera?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=128&a=51
Actually, if you feel unable to discuss it then you're only wanting to use "hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations" in your post. As those are what is not allowed. Objecting to something is not disallowed, as can be seen by the few who have objected in this thread. There is a difference between objecting to something and being hateful, discriminatory or denigrating.
Not that I can understand how anybody who claims to be a fan of Star Trek could in any way have pause on this subject.
Like it or not, this whole thing is of a political nature, as bluegeek pointed out early on. Now, I would have no problem with that section of the rules being reduced to simply, "Posting off-topic comments," I think we can have free and open discussion and so long as threads are kept on topic and in the right forum everyone can be happy. But that's not what it says, it says that any "comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature" are automatically in violation. That means that any discussion of the subject of that gust blog is in violation.
It's not politics. In the real world, discussing TRIBBLE rights, that's politics. This blog discusses Star Trek's message of peace, understanding and acceptance. Then mentions the fact they are holding a Pride celebration on the server next weekend. It's not discussing their views on sexuality, or asking for a discussion on that matter.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am fairly certain that the intention of the rule about politics is specifically meant to address political discussion directly and solely relating to current events and not directly relating to the game or franchise or to discussions of a strongly partisan nature.
I do not believe that discussing, for instance, how Star Trek directly relates to current and past social and cultural issues (such as racism, sexism, and homophobia), how the Ferengi were created as an indictment of unregulated capitalism, or how Sir Patrick Stewart was knighted by the Queen is against the rules.
I believe the ban on political chat refers specifically to current events and other similar issues with no direct connection to the game or the Star Trek franchise.
What month is white history month?
When is straight-pride month?
Can I just be American-American?
I seem to be getting lost in the shuffle!
We are becoming more and more of an exclusionist society each and every day, and now it is bleeding into my gaming which is truly appalling. The ones who are telling you this is a celebration of 'IDIC' do not realize they are being exclusionists themselves. They will say, "no we aren't, you are free to come join us" to which my response would be "no thanks, I will wait for the 'We are all people' celebration".
Are you comfortable with other expresions of Pride in the interest of diversity? Latino Pride? Black Pride? White Pride? Straight Pride? Female Pride? Male Pride? Opening the door to these things means your are making choices on views to endorse. Some are more politically acceptable than others. I seriously doubt we will see anything from the alternative viewpoints and that means that far from expressing diversity, you are actually restricting and supressing diversity of opinion. The best way to celebrate diversity is by endorsing everything by not making public advertisements in favor of specific groups.
It's very very evident from any degree of analysis of the blog that the goal is to promote their TRIBBLE pride event and present it as the logical continuation of Trek's long history of social progressivism. So the blog itself is clearly designed to promote an event with a specific political purpose, which is equivalent to promoting that political purpose. If you can't see that you're making a deliberate effort not to.
Actually, I do support the expression of pride in anybodies identity. What I have a problem with is when people express their hate for other groups of people. Taking pride in who you are is not the same thing.
I suppress nobody by expressing my comfort with who I am and what my sexuality is so that is totally acceptable. If somebody wanted to celebrate Latino pride day, then by all means go ahead, so long as they don't turn it into a "Latino's are better than every other person" day, because that's not the same thing at all. Be proud of who you are, without belittling who other people are.
Case in point. You see my objection and automatically label me a hateful, discriminating bigot and therefore, I shouldn't be allowed to voice said objection. Do not paint me with your brush.
I will speak for myself, thank you.
No one is forcing you to go. You don't even have to be in the same freaking zone. This was a blog discussing the evolution of diversity and acceptance and you decided it come here to make a counter argument that amounts to little more than "how dare you bring such talk here!?"
The blog talked about the first interracial kiss on TV, your predecessors probably wrote tons of letters to the airing stations and network saying pretty much the same thing.
Cryptic wanted to show that they support equality and chose to use their product (STO), which just happens to be based on the whole theory of diverse groups working together, to send out their message.
Nothing bad is going to come from this blog or the event it talked about.
But see, there is the rub. Many by the definition you give say it is impossible to have a Latino Pride, African Pride, White Pride, Straight Pride, Female Pride, Male Pride discussion or display because by the definition expression of pride in these things belittles another group that was oppressed or wronged by some of these other groups. You say you are open to it but they rarely if ever occur because the fringe beliefs by a small segment destroy it and prevent it from occuring as it taints the vast majority. We see it in this thread as many who are expressing uncomfortableness or opposition with this event are being painted as bigots or hatemongers regardless of our actual viewpoint. In reality, there is no openness to these viewpoints because they are seen as hostile, therefore only the politically acceptable viewpoints such as the TRIBBLE, transgender, transsexual, TRIBBLE, pride type organizations are able to publically hold these events.
as for people saying Hetero day....everyday is Hetero day
I couldn't agree more. This issue of gender preference is just inappropriate for a game that does not address any such issue or include it as a mechanic of gameplay. I'm all for being anything you want to be. What I am not for is needlessly inciting argument where the subject is not even applicable.
A game developer allowing someone to further an unrelated socio-political agenda on their front page looks extremely unprofessional.
What group?
You are making a lot of sense.
I was basing my assertion on the fact you said you couldn't discuss it. When in fact, you can discuss it so long as you don't do or say any of the things that violate the terms of use for the forums. That's not me labelling you, I don't know you from Adam. That's me making a logical deduction from the facts available to me.
To be fair, the minority groups tend to be the ones to celebrate, because they are the ones who have been oppressed in the past (and often still are in the present). There is a "Woman's Day", which is celebrated by millions across the globe each year, TV stations, Websites, communities all take part in this day. That doesn't mean they are saying that women are better than men, they are doing it to remember that women were not always treated as equals to men and that they still aren't in many places around the world. I doubt if PWE decided to post an article or event related to Woman's Day, the responses would have been anything but positive.
When we are all treated and accepted as equals across the world, perhaps then the 'majority' groups would be able to celebrate their own identities without the prejudice associated with it currently.
Ok, the USS Mother Monster is just awesome. Bug ship? My recognition skills are pretty sub-par so I am probably wrong
If I didn't think it'd get me reported I'd probably make a ship called the TRIBBLE Agenda after reading the rest of this thread though
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Suddenly I want to build a Skittle-turret Excelsior with a cutting beam and the 180 quant running at least one CSV.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I do not believe history supports your thesis. I doubt many have any objection to "white history month" or "straight-pride month" prima facie. The question is: where do these celebrations emerge from? What is the historical reason for their creation?
Events such as pride day originated out of the dark and not too distant history of oppression. They were created by minority communities as a beacon of light against the umbra of bigotry and continue today as a celebration of all the hard work that was done in the past to ensure that minorities today have an equal place in society.
I am not sure what "white pride month" or "straight pride month" would celebrate, but it certainly would be something very different. However, I would love to see, for instance, a fleet organize a Europeans in Star Trek celebration in-game and post about it in the blog. That would conjure up a very different image than the "white pride" celebration you advocate.