toys are toys....1 trick ponies every 3 minutes that i laugh off all the time....most pvp veterans in this game do....they are an annoyance at most....
gear will get you another 15% production out of your ship for any given combo....maybe 20% in some areas...this will also do nothing if you face someone who is a good pilot, and knows how to fly his ship, and when to use his powers against you.
toys are toys....1 trick ponies every 3 minutes that i laugh off all the time....most pvp veterans in this game do....they are an annoyance at most....
gear will get you another 15% production out of your ship for any given combo....maybe 20% in some areas...this will also do nothing if you face someone who is a good pilot, and knows how to fly his ship, and when to use his powers against you.
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
So If I were just a better pilot I could solo that jem hadar ship in my tier 5 instead of needing two or three others to assist me? I've only ever killed one of these solo in Kerrat and it required total surprise, and was aided by the fact he/she had taken 1/3rd damage already and not healed up, lol.
I was very competitive before the introduction of the shinies, both ground and space pvp. Ceteris Parabus i'm like 60-65 on a 1-100. I know my place and I'm cool with it. That 15 to 20% you mention is a big deal I believe, especially against a premade team.
I didn't really mean to start a thread to argue with the PvP folks. I just want integration with PvE players via an in-your-face event or two, and more options for people like myself that would PvP daily if some changes were made.
If the consensus is I'm a whiner or naive or am asking for things you don't really want, such as disabling a group from queuing together so they can effectively abuse newer folks, don't post anymore and the thread will quietly drop off the page.
I feel you brush me aside from the vantage point of somebody that is near the top of the pack. Think about the barriers for the rest of us. If you're a 3 to 1 favorite in base level gear, then you get a nice ship and top of the line items on it... that's too big a divide for me. If you're organized on a team of like players, why the hell should I even queue? Might as well afk, or in my case go PvE some more.
Here's a question for ya: Which one of you elite pvp fleets would take me in if I told you I fly a tier five ship in mk xi gear and that's the best I'll ever use?
So If I were just a better pilot I could solo that jem hadar ship in my tier 5 instead of needing two or three others to assist me? I've only ever killed one of these solo in Kerrat and it required total surprise, and was aided by the fact he/she had taken 1/3rd damage already and not healed up, lol.
I was very competitive before the introduction of the shinies, both ground and space pvp. Ceteris Parabus i'm like 60-65 on a 1-100. I know my place and I'm cool with it. That 15 to 20% you mention is a big deal I believe, especially against a premade team.
I didn't really mean to start a thread to argue with the PvP folks. I just want integration with PvE players via an in-your-face event or two, and more options for people like myself that would PvP daily if some changes were made.
If the consensus is I'm a whiner or naive or am asking for things you don't really want, such as disabling a group from queuing together so they can effectively abuse newer folks, don't post anymore and the thread will quietly drop off the page.
I feel you brush me aside from the vantage point of somebody that is near the top of the pack. Think about the barriers for the rest of us. If you're a 3 to 1 favorite in base level gear, then you get a nice ship and top of the line items on it... that's too big a divide for me. If you're organized on a team of like players, why the hell should I even queue? Might as well afk, or in my case go PvE some more.
Here's a question for ya: Which one of you elite pvp fleets would take me in if I told you I fly a tier five ship in mk xi gear and that's the best I'll ever use?
I JUST got my MK XI deflector to finish my set a couple days ago. And I do have a Fleet Norgh now. Does that count? It's purty. But all of 2012 was spent in a Heavy BoP with MK X and XI items off of the exchnage and my MAD SEXY MK X KHG set. You can do fine with a BoP I guess is what I'm saying. I don't know what I'm saying. None of the cool kids want me either.
toys are toys....1 trick ponies every 3 minutes that i laugh off all the time....most pvp veterans in this game do....they are an annoyance at most....
gear will get you another 15% production out of your ship for any given combo....maybe 20% in some areas...this will also do nothing if you face someone who is a good pilot, and knows how to fly his ship, and when to use his powers against you.
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
3 purple tech doffs w/aux2 batt will get you 30% off, much more if you run dual aux2batt or use abilities like RSP w/long cooldowns.
The KDF Vet ship can be run w/a passive +30 targeting, this allows running more CritH or CritD weapon procs. The shield Vamp is broken again and has it's cooldown reduced by Aux2batt. When compared to other destroyers is has a BC, I can't think of a non-Z store/fleet destoyer also. When compared to Raiders it's much more sturdy and has an extra weapon mount point. Not to say, particularly in tactical mode, it doesn't have drawbacks such as poor shield mods, but it's still an example of a ship that's clearly better.
Plas leech is an always on console, there are other consoles w/always on attributes now from the Ferengi store, there are Reputation consoles. These aren't time gated.
Piloting matters, but there has been a huge power creep and 15-20% is way low on min-maxing this stuff.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
3 purple tech doffs w/aux2 batt will get you 30% off, much more if you run dual aux2batt or use abilities like RSP w/long cooldowns.
The KDF Vet ship can be run w/a passive +30 targeting, this allows running more CritH or CritD weapon procs. The shield Vamp is broken again and has it's cooldown reduced by Aux2batt. When compared to other destroyers is has a BC, I can't think of a non-Z store/fleet destoyer also. When compared to Raiders it's much more sturdy and has an extra weapon mount point. Not to say, particularly in tactical mode, it doesn't have drawbacks such as poor shield mods, but it's still an example of a ship that's clearly better.
Plas leech is an always on console, there are other consoles w/always on attributes now from the Ferengi store, there are Reputation consoles. These aren't time gated.
Piloting matters, but there has been a huge power creep and 15-20% is way low on min-maxing this stuff.
I really really really don't want to give you to much traction here. I'll just agree with everything you say and then just let that go away. Like it never happened.
The vet ship CLEARLY is better.
There are ways to compete in PVP without any of that though. We can show you someone being competitive and having a good time in common gear. Not a huge deal. Do you get to do ANYTHING YOU WANT PEW PEW PEW for that. Not so much
But anywhere in life do you really get to do anything you want with little to no money down? And it works out well? Honest.
First off, and let's get back on topic, you get a wingman. You could get someone to fly with that knows more than you do. You could get help. It's an mmo.
Second you could learn a few things about the state of the game and defense/resistance and how to apply that to your ship.
So on the cheap you could maybe put together a Sci ship that was very sturdy and you could have a good time with because you wouldn't die right off the bat. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you don't WANT to fly a Sci ship forever, but is that to much to ask that maybe you start there and learn?
Please don't think this isn't possible, cause I'll just link ANOTHER boring video of a ship in all common gear, pleain t5, doing just that.
I think all these guys (and certainly myself) were saying is that not everyone feels the need to beat someone to death using "P2W" items. In my case thats strictly because I'm not bright enough to make them work. I'm sure those others COULD if they wanted. So people that DO enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to avoid for just those reasons and people that DON'T enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to seek out because they will likely assist you in learning about PVP.
There is an edge to that gear, but not as bad as you may think, and certainly not hard to counter. Please, get a wingman, and practice.
And zing I guess this sorta points back at pvp bootcamp etc.
And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap.
Advanced Escort. And I can keep pace with -anyone- right now. Well I would if I hadn't taken such a long break from the game.
XI purples across the board.
I'm workin on my consistency.
I don't need no stinkin bugship. Never have and never will.
And if someone really wants me to unleash hell, I'll just back my MVAM out of the shipyard and let my sci and tac garbage rain death.
I will say this though, I would love a que option to not have this reputation garbage mucking things up.
I am with Mav, I am flying a really underpowered build from season 6. I am in full borg set with the phased tets and the only really good DOFF I have is a purple warp core Doff that really helps with the power level drains/targetted. I can hold my own, maybe not against the guys that have been playing for the last 3 months while I played other games but I am still in the mix. I woefully low in rep system. The only P2W console I run is the ferengi torp crit one you bought with lobi back in S6
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
I really really really don't want to give you to much traction here. I'll just agree with everything you say and then just let that go away. Like it never happened.
The vet ship CLEARLY is better.
There are ways to compete in PVP without any of that though. We can show you someone being competitive and having a good time in common gear. Not a huge deal. Do you get to do ANYTHING YOU WANT PEW PEW PEW for that. Not so much
But anywhere in life do you really get to do anything you want with little to no money down? And it works out well? Honest.
First off, and let's get back on topic, you get a wingman. You could get someone to fly with that knows more than you do. You could get help. It's an mmo.
Second you could learn a few things about the state of the game and defense/resistance and how to apply that to your ship.
So on the cheap you could maybe put together a Sci ship that was very sturdy and you could have a good time with because you wouldn't die right off the bat. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you don't WANT to fly a Sci ship forever, but is that to much to ask that maybe you start there and learn?
Please don't think this isn't possible, cause I'll just link ANOTHER boring video of a ship in all common gear, pleain t5, doing just that.
I think all these guys (and certainly myself) were saying is that not everyone feels the need to beat someone to death using "P2W" items. In my case thats strictly because I'm not bright enough to make them work. I'm sure those others COULD if they wanted. So people that DO enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to avoid for just those reasons and people that DON'T enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to seek out because they will likely assist you in learning about PVP.
There is an edge to that gear, but not as bad as you may think, and certainly not hard to counter. Please, get a wingman, and practice.
And zing I guess this sorta points back at pvp bootcamp etc.
And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap.
Cheers and happy flying.
And Horizon....I WANT MY SOCKS BACK!:eek:
Not sure why you think I need to L2P. Like you wrote I presented facts. Those facts show how easy it is to make the Boffs 30% or more better in terms of uptime. There are a TRIBBLE ton of passive consoles that also increase the power creep. Just like the Rep System skills increase the power creep. Who are you kidding? This is like those who denied the roids of the late 90s baseball. It matters and it's here.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i use the vet ships all the time, they are great, but their turn rate disadvantage will deny them positioning and up time on their weapons, and they have to be slowed or reversing more often. they are easy prey for other escorts regardless of how fast their able to use abilities thanks to tech doffs. all the escorts they compete with nowadays have better shield mods too, spike cuts them in half. pulling off BOP like 1 shot alphas will be quite a bit more difficult in it then in a bop, they can be kind of awkward, and with a bug like impulse mod very jerky. if you fly past someone you cant turn on a dime like a bop or a bug can. its a very dynamic escort, but it pays a price. low maneuverability, low stats, and only 8 consoles thanks to it's special console, 4 of which are tac consoles.
i use the vet ships all the time, they are great, but their turn rate disadvantage will deny them positioning and up time on their weapons, and they have to be slowed or reversing more often. they are easy prey for other escorts regardless of how fast their able to use abilities thanks to tech doffs. all the escorts they compete with nowadays have better shield mods too, spike cuts them in half. pulling off BOP like 1 shot alphas will be quite a bit more difficult in it then in a bop, they can be kind of awkward, and with a bug like impulse mod very jerky. if you fly past someone you cant turn on a dime like a bop or a bug can. its a very dynamic escort, but it pays a price. low maneuverability, low stats, and only 8 consoles thanks to it's special console, 4 of which are tac consoles.
To be clear I've been bringing up the KDF Vet ship as an example of overall power creep. I even pointed out it's poor shield mods especially in Tactical mode in a previous post to be fair regarding its drawbacks. I used the Vet ship b/c I fly it and didn't want anyone thinking I was looking to get a ship I don't use nerfed, again this is in the context of the overall unbalanced, often broken power creep introduced this last year or so.
Seriously, take a team of quality players and make them use all common gear/doffs/ships (ie no Zen, special promo, Fleet ships base ships only) no rep points and then give a team of like quality players access to any and all ships/gear w/rep points who do you think would win and how close do you think it'd be?
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I'd take that challenge. Me, Brandon, Monkeys, Bieber, and another great Sci... Like say... Kai.... Also sub in Hilbert, Hammel, or Trinity.... Or Pax and Yoda and Hank.... for any of the afore mentioned players.
We run vanilla builds. Give us a few days to get coordinated/ and fine tune out builds since we all don't fly together at all.
Bring any spammed out consoled out team you can. Whatever gear. Give me 3 nukes and the pilots listed above, We will turn their hulls into heaps of burning rubble.
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
PS... I only say this because all of these players do this already. It would jut require obtaining weapons of less quality.
Edit: although split those guys into 2 teams and give 1 of them even 1 special toy... It would be skewed. An would come down to shot calling and game plan changes on the fly.
Not sure why you think I need to L2P. Like you wrote I presented facts. Those facts show how easy it is to make the Boffs 30% or more better in terms of uptime. There are a TRIBBLE ton of passive consoles that also increase the power creep. Just like the Rep System skills increase the power creep. Who are you kidding? This is like those who denied the roids of the late 90s baseball. It matters and it's here.
Here you go let me help you out.
You need to learn to read okay? If you can't read and understand what is written you really don't belong on a public forum.
"And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap."
That's what I actually wrote. What part of that can you not understand?
And please don't twist my words. I never disputed your facts. The half TRIBBLE arguements you derived afterwards aren't facts. It's a bunch of half assed arguments. If you can't see the difference maybe you need to study Rhetoric or Logic.
If you want to play the angry little man card and say there's no way to compete you go ahead. You want to quote your own half assed some **** I made up stuff you go ahead.
You need to learn to read okay? If you can't read and understand what is written you really don't belong on a public forum.
"And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap."
That's what I actually wrote. What part of that can you not understand?
And please don't twist my words. I never disputed your facts. The half TRIBBLE arguements you derived afterwards aren't facts. It's a bunch of half assed arguments. If you can't see the difference maybe you need to study Rhetoric or Logic.
If you want to play the angry little man card and say there's no way to compete you go ahead. You want to quote your own half assed some **** I made up stuff you go ahead.
Who are you kidding? Really?
So learn to read.
Kind of ironic "learn to read" since your previous post did bring up P2W and I haven't brought that term up 1x in this thread unless you count my forum handle.
"I think all these guys (and certainly myself) were saying is that not everyone feels the need to beat someone to death using "P2W" items."
What I brought up was power creep.
"I really really really don't want to give you to much traction here. I'll just agree with everything you say and then just let that go away. Like it never happened.
The vet ship CLEARLY is better.
There are ways to compete in PVP without any of that though. We can show you someone being competitive and having a good time in common gear. Not a huge deal. Do you get to do ANYTHING YOU WANT PEW PEW PEW for that. Not so much
But anywhere in life do you really get to do anything you want with little to no money down? And it works out well? Honest.
First off, and let's get back on topic, you get a wingman. You could get someone to fly with that knows more than you do. You could get help. It's an mmo.
Second you could learn a few things about the state of the game and defense/resistance and how to apply that to your ship.
So on the cheap you could maybe put together a Sci ship that was very sturdy and you could have a good time with because you wouldn't die right off the bat. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you don't WANT to fly a Sci ship forever, but is that to much to ask that maybe you start there and learn?"
I count over 10 "you" pronouns in the above quote. You did direct a great deal of l2play in my direction. Adding a "this isn't specifically at you" at the end doesn't change the implications.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I'd take that challenge. Me, Brandon, Monkeys, Bieber, and another great Sci... Like say... Kai.... Also sub in Hilbert, Hammel, or Trinity.... Or Pax and Yoda and Hank.... for any of the afore mentioned players.
We run vanilla builds. Give us a few days to get coordinated/ and fine tune out builds since we all don't fly together at all.
Bring any spammed out consoled out team you can. Whatever gear. Give me 3 nukes and the pilots listed above, We will turn their hulls into heaps of burning rubble.
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
PS... I only say this because all of these players do this already. It would jut require obtaining weapons of less quality.
Edit: although split those guys into 2 teams and give 1 of them even 1 special toy... It would be skewed. An would come down to shot calling and game plan changes on the fly.
Why make it personal? Take 1 group w/vanilla vs 1 group w/o. Then make them switch. Repeat 25x for statistical significance. Or just acknowledge the obvious that power creep has gotten out of hand.
Do you honestly think 3 sci vestas 1 bug and a Tholian Sci for example wouldn't beat a team of 3 base Sci ships, 1 base cruiser and 1 base Tac? Not to mention the vestas et al team having access to purple doffs/romulan diplomacy consoles/reputation boosts and w/e other non base gear they want?
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
As a player many think of me atleast as decent I hope, I fly a MVAM (c-store) 20dollar ship from 2011, its great but how hard I try I can never beat someone flying a decent piloted bugship maybe its me maybe its my lack of reputation stuff or my unwillingness to change to the latest tricobalt tricks but, I think that there are ships I don't mean all lockbox/new c-store ships that just outperforms my little triangle.. In the end Im quite happy with the ship I have I was thinking to get the new fleet Advanced escort and fly that for abit tho.
Truth is Bug ship is the best escort, it doesn't even in my book have a contender.
Then we have the Gurumba another ship I like turns like an old "fleet/patroll" escort with a free beam overload2, and I can't complain that ship have been one of my favorite ships to fly in the entire game.
Oh, I'm not trying to make it personal dude. I'm just saying... There are many players out there that can pull it off no matter what ship they fly.
Pull off what exactly? I've been writing about the overall powercreep that includes ships, but isn't limited to them.
Fit a pauper, all common etc, setup like I mentioned vs like quality players in anything goes setups and be competative?
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Pull off what exactly? I've been writing about the overall powercreep that includes ships, but isn't limited to them.
Fit a pauper, all common etc, setup like I mentioned vs like quality players in anything goes setups and be competative?
dude, the ships are getting better all the time....and gear too....and powers too....in all games ive ever played.... thats what happens.... things get more powerful as the game evolves...this one seems to be doing the same....which does not surprise me, and i guess i can't speak for others...but...i don't think it should surprise anyone really...
whats the point in playing the game if you cannot work towards something better? hell, i pve grind for just about everything...except my super cool McSteamie, which i dropped $10 on....but that hurt me like it would anyone i guess...
i guess what i'm trying to say, is...i'm trying to get your point. but i'm finding it hard, thats all...the game keeps going in this fashion, you can stick with the curve...or fall behind...i can only keep up with 1 toon these days and stay competitive....which sucks...because i really like playing sci too...
but really my point was....i can still take my old defiant out and pull the same kills off as i ever did vs being in my new fleet defiant...because really the difference is only 1 tac console....
or....i could rock my old fleet escort...thats what it used to be called....and do the same thing as my new SUPER COOL McSteamie...the difference there being i trade off a lt sci power for a lt eng power....
or....enter ship name here....and do the same thing as....enter ship name here.... with a little different results...
i seem to just ignore everyone with their lolspecial cooldown doff hax.... doesnt bother me at all...and it will be fixed soon anyways....matter of fact ive had several conversations with people in the past week at how they noticed my cooldowns werent reduced and why i wasnt running the doff while i could....my explanation was that i can do the same thing without it, so why even bother with stuffs like that anyways....
same with A2B builds.... i don't like them. 3 doffs, possibly 2 if you spend a lil more....just to get some cooldown reduction.....cool for you bro, i'll take my 2 lt eng powers and do something usefull for the team instead of being all selfish about my own tac cool downs...as most engineers in cruisers for some reason still focus on doing damage for same silly reason....go ahead bro, knock yourself out....but i dont think you understand the game as much as you think you do. now it does work for some people, and specific builds...thats great...but its far from being efficient from my point of view. but i will defer to drunk for cruiser builds....
so, this power creep you speak of.....its the curve of the game....and if you are not used to it over the past year and a half, and how perfect world seemed to step on the gas with it....then...well...idunno man...i seem to make enough EC just PVP grinding to buy whatever i need of the exchange....i imagine PVErs make tons more EC than me, and can buy whatever the hell they want through EC, or dilith, or convert it into zen....
so what is the real problem here? are you upset that the time you spend in the game doesnt yield the same results as it used to? well i'm sorry my old friend, but that is life. i learned that lesson in my early 20's, and decided to kick life in the balls instead of having life kick me in the balls, and cry about it.
and thats the thing! its a game! i love getting blown up! and i love having fun and killing bad guys.... (Blue team, i got your number) (Go Red team go!)
anyways, i was at work earlier, i hope i made my point a little more clearly, and a little less *******-ish.
i guess what i'm trying to say, is...i'm trying to get your point. but i'm finding it hard, thats all...the game keeps going in this fashion, you can stick with the curve...or fall behind...i can only keep up with 1 toon these days and stay competitive....which sucks...because i really like playing sci too...
I miss seeing the occasional appearances of T'lexi in the queues. It's a shame really, but I understand. I can only keep up with 1 toon myself.
dude, the ships are getting better all the time....and gear too....and powers too....in all games ive ever played.... thats what happens.... things get more powerful as the game evolves...this one seems to be doing the same....which does not surprise me, and i guess i can't speak for others...but...i don't think it should surprise anyone really...
whats the point in playing the game if you cannot work towards something better? hell, i pve grind for just about everything...except my super cool McSteamie, which i dropped $10 on....but that hurt me like it would anyone i guess...
i guess what i'm trying to say, is...i'm trying to get your point. but i'm finding it hard, thats all...the game keeps going in this fashion, you can stick with the curve...or fall behind...i can only keep up with 1 toon these days and stay competitive....which sucks...because i really like playing sci too...
but really my point was....i can still take my old defiant out and pull the same kills off as i ever did vs being in my new fleet defiant...because really the difference is only 1 tac console....
or....i could rock my old fleet escort...thats what it used to be called....and do the same thing as my new SUPER COOL McSteamie...the difference there being i trade off a lt sci power for a lt eng power....
or....enter ship name here....and do the same thing as....enter ship name here.... with a little different results...
i seem to just ignore everyone with their lolspecial cooldown doff hax.... doesnt bother me at all...and it will be fixed soon anyways....matter of fact ive had several conversations with people in the past week at how they noticed my cooldowns werent reduced and why i wasnt running the doff while i could....my explanation was that i can do the same thing without it, so why even bother with stuffs like that anyways....
same with A2B builds.... i don't like them. 3 doffs, possibly 2 if you spend a lil more....just to get some cooldown reduction.....cool for you bro, i'll take my 2 lt eng powers and do something usefull for the team instead of being all selfish about my own tac cool downs...as most engineers in cruisers for some reason still focus on doing damage for same silly reason....go ahead bro, knock yourself out....but i dont think you understand the game as much as you think you do. now it does work for some people, and specific builds...thats great...but its far from being efficient from my point of view. but i will defer to drunk for cruiser builds....
so, this power creep you speak of.....its the curve of the game....and if you are not used to it over the past year and a half, and how perfect world seemed to step on the gas with it....then...well...idunno man...i seem to make enough EC just PVP grinding to buy whatever i need of the exchange....i imagine PVErs make tons more EC than me, and can buy whatever the hell they want through EC, or dilith, or convert it into zen....
so what is the real problem here? are you upset that the time you spend in the game doesnt yield the same results as it used to? well i'm sorry my old friend, but that is life. i learned that lesson in my early 20's, and decided to kick life in the balls instead of having life kick me in the balls, and cry about it.
and thats the thing! its a game! i love getting blown up! and i love having fun and killing bad guys.... (Blue team, i got your number) (Go Red team go!)
anyways, i was at work earlier, i hope i made my point a little more clearly, and a little less *******-ish.
-thrusters on full-
To review, among the OP suggestions was to have 2 queues one being all commons for "new" PvPers and the other an anything goes "elite" queue. I responded saying I'd much prefer the non-elite queue since it wouldn't have the huge power creep and otherwise broken TRIBBLE. I went on this would lead to "smurfing" since the easy queue would have veteran players who would turn off newer players from PvP since they'd roll them.
Things went back and forth and people started claiming the gear et al isn't significant. It now is and I described the Raiders being left behind. Quite, frankly they were being left behind @ the start of the what was then C-Store during Pay-to-Play. Around the time the TB pet spam came out they were really far in the rear view mirrior. (I'm talking vs a team of good players in the Arena). I also described other gear/ships including, but not limited to rep system bonuses, diplomacy consoles, Fleet/Zen/Lotto ships, doffs.
Power creep in general should be a concern for any game since as time goes on new players will start the game farther and farther behind in the end resulting in people not even bothering since they'd never catch up.
In this game it's been even worse since things are "balanced" around things like 99 skill point investment when it's easy to go well over that, PvE even though PvE NPC mechanics are much different so players are left to self police if at all.
Fyi, on Aux2batt it's usefull on more than just cruisers and you don't need the 2 copy version of Aux2batt to be effective. Since now it now longer shares a cooldown w/EpTX you can use EPTA to negate it's only drawback. I went back and forth w/others on this in another thread if you want more details. It's also not the worst Doff combo out there (SNBs say high) and there's a fair amount of Sci Skills which are made much better by doffs (PSW, GW, Tykens, VM) not to mention pet spam Doffs.
In summary, my point is gear matters lack of balance and steep power creep are a problem and shouldn't be dismissed.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
-when you are new at something, expect to suck at it.
-since when did everyone you know involved in something you relayed on actually do a good job at it?
-so, you are gonna win a drag race in your pimped out for fiesta vs that mustang.....????
-yeah, i called out of work today "sick"....winning!
-life gets easier all the time.... said no person, ever.
okay i'm done....
but really, you have had to be somewhat blind to NOT notice that gear wasn't becoming more of an impact on PVP than it was 2 years ago. i long for the days of pure piloting winning no matter what.....but then i got to thinking....this would be one of the first games that that would actually exist in, if it could.....and then i remembered who develops the game and their reputation.....
so i started grinding for the best gear available......
and...well, at least i can keep up with 1 toon.
i love trek, i love gaming, i love all of you. and dammit we will have fun and kill bad guys together if i have anything to do with it. (which seems like little to no impact, but in the past week i've coached 2 "f pvp this is bs" zone ragers into 2 players that actually now have an interest in continuing having fun with us)
-when you are new at something, expect to suck at it.
-since when did everyone you know involved in something you relayed on actually do a good job at it?
-so, you are gonna win a drag race in your pimped out for fiesta vs that mustang.....????
-yeah, i called out of work today "sick"....winning!
-life gets easier all the time.... said no person, ever.
okay i'm done....
but really, you have had to be somewhat blind to NOT notice that gear wasn't becoming more of an impact on PVP than it was 2 years ago. i long for the days of pure piloting winning no matter what.....but then i got to thinking....this would be one of the first games that that would actually exist in, if it could.....and then i remembered who develops the game and their reputation.....
so i started grinding for the best gear available......
and...well, at least i can keep up with 1 toon.
i love trek, i love gaming, i love all of you. and dammit we will have fun and kill bad guys together if i have anything to do with it. (which seems like little to no impact, but in the past week i've coached 2 "f pvp this is bs" zone ragers into 2 players that actually now have an interest in continuing having fun with us)
-thrusters on full-
Power creep isn't about experience, it's about never being able to catch up for those who come in late or take a break and are left behind. This isn't about life is easy or hard, this is peoples' entertainment. People aren't going to want to play much less spend $ on something they'll never catch up on. Power creep 1st started w/the old C-Store, now sadly it's worse w/all the more imbalances and time gated means of aquiring things.
The car analogy doesn't work. A more appropriate analogy would be to ask a Formula 1 driver in a Yugo to beat another Formula 1 driver in a top of the line car.
Again, this started w/people being dismissive regarding the impact gear et al now has on PvP. It's not the 20% or less, it's potentionally much more. How much fun do you think it is to play against placate passives, snb doffs, et al?
People can't expect new players to think gear doesn't matter, then get confused for being scolded for using x, y, and z.
This discussion reminds me of when C-Store ships came out and people tried to claim the C-Store ships weren't really any better than the other options.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
still, trying to grasp your position, just can't get there friend.
i think we will have to agree to just disagree on this one.
Fair enough.:cool:
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Power creep isn't about experience, it's about never being able to catch up for those who come in late or take a break and are left behind. This isn't about life is easy or hard, this is peoples' entertainment. People aren't going to want to play much less spend $ on something they'll never catch up on. Power creep 1st started w/the old C-Store, now sadly it's worse w/all the more imbalances and time gated means of aquiring things.
The car analogy doesn't work. A more appropriate analogy would be to ask a Formula 1 driver in a Yugo to beat another Formula 1 driver in a top of the line car.
Again, this started w/people being dismissive regarding the impact gear et al now has on PvP. It's not the 20% or less, it's potentionally much more. How much fun do you think it is to play against placate passives, snb doffs, et al?
People can't expect new players to think gear doesn't matter, then get confused for being scolded for using x, y, and z.
This discussion reminds me of when C-Store ships came out and people tried to claim the C-Store ships weren't really any better than the other options.
The only thing that is really impossible for a newcomer to get off the bat would be Rep-based gear and passives (assuming they are complete new-comer to the game and not simply PvP). The Starbase stuff is accessible by simply joining an established fleet. Nearly everything else is obtainable rather quickly. I've never been good at making EC, so I'm still playing catch-up there, but I have never felt disadvantaged because I have MkXI instead of MkXII.
As much as I hate the power-creep in this game, denial of opportunity isn't YET a big issue. I do, however, see the potential for that to become a problem in the not too distant future.
As Horizon pointed out, I run a farily Vanilla build, with my only special console being the Subspace Jump. It is still possible for skill to overcome gear "defficencies" (I still feel giving up constant bonuses for several activatable powers with long cooldowns is a fool's bargain. It really only becomes better when a coordinated team is spamming said abilities... not too mention grossly unfun for the opposition). Knowing your role and being good at it is still, usually, preferable. IMO.
Edit: As far as ships go, yes there are several ships that are vastly superior to anything that came before them. That does not mean they are useless. I only gave up my DSSV, in favor of a Wells, rather recently. I did this for the turnrate though, not because it has a superior BOFF layout or console slots. In fact, I preferred the console slots on my FDSSV much more than the Wells.
since all this starbase and rep TRIBBLE i have resigned myself to never making any new characters again. i main 3, and grinding them all up slashes my pvp time down to almost nothing quite often. though i finished the rep and the races now and the grind is basically nothing, its great to just log in and do something fun instead of something i need to do. unless i want more rep gear.
Comments
its all the pilot folks.
toys are toys....1 trick ponies every 3 minutes that i laugh off all the time....most pvp veterans in this game do....they are an annoyance at most....
gear will get you another 15% production out of your ship for any given combo....maybe 20% in some areas...this will also do nothing if you face someone who is a good pilot, and knows how to fly his ship, and when to use his powers against you.
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
So If I were just a better pilot I could solo that jem hadar ship in my tier 5 instead of needing two or three others to assist me? I've only ever killed one of these solo in Kerrat and it required total surprise, and was aided by the fact he/she had taken 1/3rd damage already and not healed up, lol.
I was very competitive before the introduction of the shinies, both ground and space pvp. Ceteris Parabus i'm like 60-65 on a 1-100. I know my place and I'm cool with it. That 15 to 20% you mention is a big deal I believe, especially against a premade team.
I didn't really mean to start a thread to argue with the PvP folks. I just want integration with PvE players via an in-your-face event or two, and more options for people like myself that would PvP daily if some changes were made.
If the consensus is I'm a whiner or naive or am asking for things you don't really want, such as disabling a group from queuing together so they can effectively abuse newer folks, don't post anymore and the thread will quietly drop off the page.
I feel you brush me aside from the vantage point of somebody that is near the top of the pack. Think about the barriers for the rest of us. If you're a 3 to 1 favorite in base level gear, then you get a nice ship and top of the line items on it... that's too big a divide for me. If you're organized on a team of like players, why the hell should I even queue? Might as well afk, or in my case go PvE some more.
Here's a question for ya: Which one of you elite pvp fleets would take me in if I told you I fly a tier five ship in mk xi gear and that's the best I'll ever use?
I JUST got my MK XI deflector to finish my set a couple days ago. And I do have a Fleet Norgh now. Does that count? It's purty. But all of 2012 was spent in a Heavy BoP with MK X and XI items off of the exchnage and my MAD SEXY MK X KHG set. You can do fine with a BoP I guess is what I'm saying. I don't know what I'm saying. None of the cool kids want me either.
Cheers and happy flying!
wont go back to the bug ship....
still popping people like always....
still tops in kills and damage in every match i pug in....
want proof? as OPVP....
did it half because i'm tired of people telling me i need the bug ship to kill things....
half because i want to look at a damn fedscort on my screen while doing so.
*treknerd4life*
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
edit: i know someone who wants a thissler
Advanced Escort. And I can keep pace with -anyone- right now. Well I would if I hadn't taken such a long break from the game.
XI purples across the board.
I'm workin on my consistency.
I don't need no stinkin bugship. Never have and never will.
And if someone really wants me to unleash hell, I'll just back my MVAM out of the shipyard and let my sci and tac garbage rain death.
I will say this though, I would love a que option to not have this reputation garbage mucking things up.
3 purple tech doffs w/aux2 batt will get you 30% off, much more if you run dual aux2batt or use abilities like RSP w/long cooldowns.
The KDF Vet ship can be run w/a passive +30 targeting, this allows running more CritH or CritD weapon procs. The shield Vamp is broken again and has it's cooldown reduced by Aux2batt. When compared to other destroyers is has a BC, I can't think of a non-Z store/fleet destoyer also. When compared to Raiders it's much more sturdy and has an extra weapon mount point. Not to say, particularly in tactical mode, it doesn't have drawbacks such as poor shield mods, but it's still an example of a ship that's clearly better.
Plas leech is an always on console, there are other consoles w/always on attributes now from the Ferengi store, there are Reputation consoles. These aren't time gated.
Piloting matters, but there has been a huge power creep and 15-20% is way low on min-maxing this stuff.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I really really really don't want to give you to much traction here. I'll just agree with everything you say and then just let that go away. Like it never happened.
The vet ship CLEARLY is better.
There are ways to compete in PVP without any of that though. We can show you someone being competitive and having a good time in common gear. Not a huge deal. Do you get to do ANYTHING YOU WANT PEW PEW PEW for that. Not so much
But anywhere in life do you really get to do anything you want with little to no money down? And it works out well? Honest.
First off, and let's get back on topic, you get a wingman. You could get someone to fly with that knows more than you do. You could get help. It's an mmo.
Second you could learn a few things about the state of the game and defense/resistance and how to apply that to your ship.
So on the cheap you could maybe put together a Sci ship that was very sturdy and you could have a good time with because you wouldn't die right off the bat. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you don't WANT to fly a Sci ship forever, but is that to much to ask that maybe you start there and learn?
Please don't think this isn't possible, cause I'll just link ANOTHER boring video of a ship in all common gear, pleain t5, doing just that.
I think all these guys (and certainly myself) were saying is that not everyone feels the need to beat someone to death using "P2W" items. In my case thats strictly because I'm not bright enough to make them work. I'm sure those others COULD if they wanted. So people that DO enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to avoid for just those reasons and people that DON'T enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to seek out because they will likely assist you in learning about PVP.
There is an edge to that gear, but not as bad as you may think, and certainly not hard to counter. Please, get a wingman, and practice.
And zing I guess this sorta points back at pvp bootcamp etc.
And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap.
Cheers and happy flying.
And Horizon....I WANT MY SOCKS BACK!:eek:
Anyone that knows you, for it to be a fair fight you would need to be in T3 escort with MK 0 gear.
I am with Mav, I am flying a really underpowered build from season 6. I am in full borg set with the phased tets and the only really good DOFF I have is a purple warp core Doff that really helps with the power level drains/targetted. I can hold my own, maybe not against the guys that have been playing for the last 3 months while I played other games but I am still in the mix. I woefully low in rep system. The only P2W console I run is the ferengi torp crit one you bought with lobi back in S6
Not sure why you think I need to L2P. Like you wrote I presented facts. Those facts show how easy it is to make the Boffs 30% or more better in terms of uptime. There are a TRIBBLE ton of passive consoles that also increase the power creep. Just like the Rep System skills increase the power creep. Who are you kidding? This is like those who denied the roids of the late 90s baseball. It matters and it's here.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
To be clear I've been bringing up the KDF Vet ship as an example of overall power creep. I even pointed out it's poor shield mods especially in Tactical mode in a previous post to be fair regarding its drawbacks. I used the Vet ship b/c I fly it and didn't want anyone thinking I was looking to get a ship I don't use nerfed, again this is in the context of the overall unbalanced, often broken power creep introduced this last year or so.
Seriously, take a team of quality players and make them use all common gear/doffs/ships (ie no Zen, special promo, Fleet ships base ships only) no rep points and then give a team of like quality players access to any and all ships/gear w/rep points who do you think would win and how close do you think it'd be?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
We run vanilla builds. Give us a few days to get coordinated/ and fine tune out builds since we all don't fly together at all.
Bring any spammed out consoled out team you can. Whatever gear. Give me 3 nukes and the pilots listed above, We will turn their hulls into heaps of burning rubble.
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
PS... I only say this because all of these players do this already. It would jut require obtaining weapons of less quality.
Edit: although split those guys into 2 teams and give 1 of them even 1 special toy... It would be skewed. An would come down to shot calling and game plan changes on the fly.
Here you go let me help you out.
You need to learn to read okay? If you can't read and understand what is written you really don't belong on a public forum.
"And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap."
That's what I actually wrote. What part of that can you not understand?
And please don't twist my words. I never disputed your facts. The half TRIBBLE arguements you derived afterwards aren't facts. It's a bunch of half assed arguments. If you can't see the difference maybe you need to study Rhetoric or Logic.
If you want to play the angry little man card and say there's no way to compete you go ahead. You want to quote your own half assed some **** I made up stuff you go ahead.
Who are you kidding? Really?
So learn to read.
Kind of ironic "learn to read" since your previous post did bring up P2W and I haven't brought that term up 1x in this thread unless you count my forum handle.
"I think all these guys (and certainly myself) were saying is that not everyone feels the need to beat someone to death using "P2W" items."
What I brought up was power creep.
"I really really really don't want to give you to much traction here. I'll just agree with everything you say and then just let that go away. Like it never happened.
The vet ship CLEARLY is better.
There are ways to compete in PVP without any of that though. We can show you someone being competitive and having a good time in common gear. Not a huge deal. Do you get to do ANYTHING YOU WANT PEW PEW PEW for that. Not so much
But anywhere in life do you really get to do anything you want with little to no money down? And it works out well? Honest.
First off, and let's get back on topic, you get a wingman. You could get someone to fly with that knows more than you do. You could get help. It's an mmo.
Second you could learn a few things about the state of the game and defense/resistance and how to apply that to your ship.
So on the cheap you could maybe put together a Sci ship that was very sturdy and you could have a good time with because you wouldn't die right off the bat. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you don't WANT to fly a Sci ship forever, but is that to much to ask that maybe you start there and learn?"
I count over 10 "you" pronouns in the above quote. You did direct a great deal of l2play in my direction. Adding a "this isn't specifically at you" at the end doesn't change the implications.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Why make it personal? Take 1 group w/vanilla vs 1 group w/o. Then make them switch. Repeat 25x for statistical significance. Or just acknowledge the obvious that power creep has gotten out of hand.
Do you honestly think 3 sci vestas 1 bug and a Tholian Sci for example wouldn't beat a team of 3 base Sci ships, 1 base cruiser and 1 base Tac? Not to mention the vestas et al team having access to purple doffs/romulan diplomacy consoles/reputation boosts and w/e other non base gear they want?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Truth is Bug ship is the best escort, it doesn't even in my book have a contender.
Then we have the Gurumba another ship I like turns like an old "fleet/patroll" escort with a free beam overload2, and I can't complain that ship have been one of my favorite ships to fly in the entire game.
Pull off what exactly? I've been writing about the overall powercreep that includes ships, but isn't limited to them.
Fit a pauper, all common etc, setup like I mentioned vs like quality players in anything goes setups and be competative?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
dude, the ships are getting better all the time....and gear too....and powers too....in all games ive ever played.... thats what happens.... things get more powerful as the game evolves...this one seems to be doing the same....which does not surprise me, and i guess i can't speak for others...but...i don't think it should surprise anyone really...
whats the point in playing the game if you cannot work towards something better? hell, i pve grind for just about everything...except my super cool McSteamie, which i dropped $10 on....but that hurt me like it would anyone i guess...
i guess what i'm trying to say, is...i'm trying to get your point. but i'm finding it hard, thats all...the game keeps going in this fashion, you can stick with the curve...or fall behind...i can only keep up with 1 toon these days and stay competitive....which sucks...because i really like playing sci too...
but really my point was....i can still take my old defiant out and pull the same kills off as i ever did vs being in my new fleet defiant...because really the difference is only 1 tac console....
or....i could rock my old fleet escort...thats what it used to be called....and do the same thing as my new SUPER COOL McSteamie...the difference there being i trade off a lt sci power for a lt eng power....
or....enter ship name here....and do the same thing as....enter ship name here.... with a little different results...
i seem to just ignore everyone with their lolspecial cooldown doff hax.... doesnt bother me at all...and it will be fixed soon anyways....matter of fact ive had several conversations with people in the past week at how they noticed my cooldowns werent reduced and why i wasnt running the doff while i could....my explanation was that i can do the same thing without it, so why even bother with stuffs like that anyways....
same with A2B builds.... i don't like them. 3 doffs, possibly 2 if you spend a lil more....just to get some cooldown reduction.....cool for you bro, i'll take my 2 lt eng powers and do something usefull for the team instead of being all selfish about my own tac cool downs...as most engineers in cruisers for some reason still focus on doing damage for same silly reason....go ahead bro, knock yourself out....but i dont think you understand the game as much as you think you do. now it does work for some people, and specific builds...thats great...but its far from being efficient from my point of view. but i will defer to drunk for cruiser builds....
so, this power creep you speak of.....its the curve of the game....and if you are not used to it over the past year and a half, and how perfect world seemed to step on the gas with it....then...well...idunno man...i seem to make enough EC just PVP grinding to buy whatever i need of the exchange....i imagine PVErs make tons more EC than me, and can buy whatever the hell they want through EC, or dilith, or convert it into zen....
so what is the real problem here? are you upset that the time you spend in the game doesnt yield the same results as it used to? well i'm sorry my old friend, but that is life. i learned that lesson in my early 20's, and decided to kick life in the balls instead of having life kick me in the balls, and cry about it.
and thats the thing! its a game! i love getting blown up! and i love having fun and killing bad guys.... (Blue team, i got your number) (Go Red team go!)
anyways, i was at work earlier, i hope i made my point a little more clearly, and a little less *******-ish.
-thrusters on full-
I miss seeing the occasional appearances of T'lexi in the queues. It's a shame really, but I understand. I can only keep up with 1 toon myself.
To review, among the OP suggestions was to have 2 queues one being all commons for "new" PvPers and the other an anything goes "elite" queue. I responded saying I'd much prefer the non-elite queue since it wouldn't have the huge power creep and otherwise broken TRIBBLE. I went on this would lead to "smurfing" since the easy queue would have veteran players who would turn off newer players from PvP since they'd roll them.
Things went back and forth and people started claiming the gear et al isn't significant. It now is and I described the Raiders being left behind. Quite, frankly they were being left behind @ the start of the what was then C-Store during Pay-to-Play. Around the time the TB pet spam came out they were really far in the rear view mirrior. (I'm talking vs a team of good players in the Arena). I also described other gear/ships including, but not limited to rep system bonuses, diplomacy consoles, Fleet/Zen/Lotto ships, doffs.
Power creep in general should be a concern for any game since as time goes on new players will start the game farther and farther behind in the end resulting in people not even bothering since they'd never catch up.
In this game it's been even worse since things are "balanced" around things like 99 skill point investment when it's easy to go well over that, PvE even though PvE NPC mechanics are much different so players are left to self police if at all.
Fyi, on Aux2batt it's usefull on more than just cruisers and you don't need the 2 copy version of Aux2batt to be effective. Since now it now longer shares a cooldown w/EpTX you can use EPTA to negate it's only drawback. I went back and forth w/others on this in another thread if you want more details. It's also not the worst Doff combo out there (SNBs say high) and there's a fair amount of Sci Skills which are made much better by doffs (PSW, GW, Tykens, VM) not to mention pet spam Doffs.
In summary, my point is gear matters lack of balance and steep power creep are a problem and shouldn't be dismissed.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
-when you are new at something, expect to suck at it.
-since when did everyone you know involved in something you relayed on actually do a good job at it?
-so, you are gonna win a drag race in your pimped out for fiesta vs that mustang.....????
-yeah, i called out of work today "sick"....winning!
-life gets easier all the time.... said no person, ever.
okay i'm done....
but really, you have had to be somewhat blind to NOT notice that gear wasn't becoming more of an impact on PVP than it was 2 years ago. i long for the days of pure piloting winning no matter what.....but then i got to thinking....this would be one of the first games that that would actually exist in, if it could.....and then i remembered who develops the game and their reputation.....
so i started grinding for the best gear available......
and...well, at least i can keep up with 1 toon.
i love trek, i love gaming, i love all of you. and dammit we will have fun and kill bad guys together if i have anything to do with it. (which seems like little to no impact, but in the past week i've coached 2 "f pvp this is bs" zone ragers into 2 players that actually now have an interest in continuing having fun with us)
-thrusters on full-
damn i miss playing that toon, but she just doesnt cut it anymore.... she flies that vesta now, and is okay, but far from competitive among the top.
Power creep isn't about experience, it's about never being able to catch up for those who come in late or take a break and are left behind. This isn't about life is easy or hard, this is peoples' entertainment. People aren't going to want to play much less spend $ on something they'll never catch up on. Power creep 1st started w/the old C-Store, now sadly it's worse w/all the more imbalances and time gated means of aquiring things.
The car analogy doesn't work. A more appropriate analogy would be to ask a Formula 1 driver in a Yugo to beat another Formula 1 driver in a top of the line car.
Again, this started w/people being dismissive regarding the impact gear et al now has on PvP. It's not the 20% or less, it's potentionally much more. How much fun do you think it is to play against placate passives, snb doffs, et al?
People can't expect new players to think gear doesn't matter, then get confused for being scolded for using x, y, and z.
This discussion reminds me of when C-Store ships came out and people tried to claim the C-Store ships weren't really any better than the other options.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i think we will have to agree to just disagree on this one.
Fair enough.:cool:
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
The only thing that is really impossible for a newcomer to get off the bat would be Rep-based gear and passives (assuming they are complete new-comer to the game and not simply PvP). The Starbase stuff is accessible by simply joining an established fleet. Nearly everything else is obtainable rather quickly. I've never been good at making EC, so I'm still playing catch-up there, but I have never felt disadvantaged because I have MkXI instead of MkXII.
As much as I hate the power-creep in this game, denial of opportunity isn't YET a big issue. I do, however, see the potential for that to become a problem in the not too distant future.
As Horizon pointed out, I run a farily Vanilla build, with my only special console being the Subspace Jump. It is still possible for skill to overcome gear "defficencies" (I still feel giving up constant bonuses for several activatable powers with long cooldowns is a fool's bargain. It really only becomes better when a coordinated team is spamming said abilities... not too mention grossly unfun for the opposition). Knowing your role and being good at it is still, usually, preferable. IMO.
Edit: As far as ships go, yes there are several ships that are vastly superior to anything that came before them. That does not mean they are useless. I only gave up my DSSV, in favor of a Wells, rather recently. I did this for the turnrate though, not because it has a superior BOFF layout or console slots. In fact, I preferred the console slots on my FDSSV much more than the Wells.