Because as the old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it.
The Miranda Class has been active since at least the time of The Wrath of Khan, the Constitution class was present at the battle of Wolf 359 and the Oberth class was in use from the late 23rd century and well into the 24th (First appearance Undiscovered country, last appearance Battle of Sector 001)
At the end of the day, why send a long mission cruiser on a mission to Risa or Vulcan when an refitted older model ship will do the job?
Yeah really. Change out the old systems put in new ones and send the ship back into service. What do you get when you a 2409 model shield on a 2269 model ship? A ship with as tough a shield as a 2409 model ship.
I will never understand why people keep going for the oddball, hard to read text colors =/
Because I don't want someone who complains about font choices to read what I have to day. It's not worth my time to type something when someone else is going to complain about its appearance rather than its substance.
Because I don't want someone who complains about font choices to read what I have to day. It's not worth my time to type something when someone else is going to complain about its appearance rather than its substance.
People would be a lot more interested in your substance...,
if you weren't trying to be so 'cool' with the lousy color selection.
You don't get your point across, if people don't bother to read it.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Someone obviously doesn't understand sarcasm, even when it is blatantly dripping all over the post. :rolleyes:
Sarcasm was understood...
But again, the WIT is non-effective if nobody (beside me) bothers to read it...
You might just as well have used RED for all the effect it would have had.
(seeing how 'dripping' and 'sarcasm' have red tonal meanings)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
But again, the WIT is non-effective if nobody (beside me) bothers to read it...
You might just as well have used RED for all the effect it would have had.
But that's just it - only those who bothered to read it would be "in" on the joke. Those who actually complain would be left without. A double entendre, if you will.
Regardless, this is the last I will say on the subject, or this thread. I find it idiotic that Cryptic makes old ships in an established "future" time, but I can't fault them for trying to make money. They are a business, after all. I just found it incredibly petty for someone to complain about font choice in a thread that's just arguing about a different kind of choice, is all.
But that's just it - only those who bothered to read it would be "in" on the joke. Those who actually complain would be left without. A double entendre, if you will.
Ahhh... Like Written Witticisms for the Legally Blind...
Jokes are best, when served in such a manner so as to invoke a response from the largest number of people possible.
In-Jokes, are for the mentally deranged. (in my humble opinion, of course)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yeah really. Change out the old systems put in new ones and send the ship back into service. What do you get when you a 2409 model shield on a 2269 model ship? A ship with as tough a shield as a 2409 model ship.
I fail to see why not so long as the warp core was updated to provide the correct amount of power for it.
Besides, most of the 2409 versions of the ships would be built from the ground up with 2409 technology, ships do contain a lot of materials that are difficult or impossible to replicate, so smaller ships would use less of these materials and therefore be easier to build.
And it does make sense that starships have non-replicable materials in their construction, otherwise they'd have gigantic replicators in place of shipyards and would just replicate entire ships instead of repairing them.
i wish they'd wipe away all ToS, Tng, Pre 2409 ships and uniform i came with the promise of 2409 not this attempt at cashing in on the old people that can't adapt and move on people like this have been holding back trek the enterprise being the most face palming decision on a series ever in scifi i want new stuff if i i wanted old stuff i would have watched the tv shows
Swtor did the same TRIBBLE they blended the prequals, the original movies and bang you got an abomination that appeals to the mainstream people so sad and wasted no wonder the game is doing terrible
i wish they'd wipe away all ToS, Tng, Pre 2409 ships and uniform i came with the promise of 2409 not this attempt at cashing in on the old people that can't adapt and move on people like this have been holding back trek the enterprise being the most face palming decision on a series ever in scifi i want new stuff if i i wanted old stuff i would have watched the tv shows
Swtor did the same TRIBBLE they blended the prequals, the original movies and bang you got an abomination that appeals to the mainstream people so sad and wasted no wonder the game is doing terrible
i wish they'd wipe away all ToS, Tng, Pre 2409 ships and uniform i came with the promise of 2409 not this attempt at cashing in on the old people that can't adapt and move on people like this have been holding back trek the enterprise being the most face palming decision on a series ever in scifi i want new stuff if i i wanted old stuff i would have watched the tv shows
Swtor did the same TRIBBLE they blended the prequals, the original movies and bang you got an abomination that appeals to the mainstream people so sad and wasted no wonder the game is doing terrible
if you don't have a counter argument to preserving the proper time line of 2409 then don't post all this ships do nothing but degrade the suppose future time line we are suppose to be in
The simple answer is that Cryptic an sell them better than any new design they might come up with. Many of Cryptics house designed ships look so horrible that I prefer flying the old canon ones instead.
if you don't have a counter argument to preserving the proper time line of 2409 then don't post all this ships do nothing but degrade the suppose future time line we are suppose to be in
I used to think that. I fought and railed against it for a couple years, but you know what? That ship has already sailed. Wait, scratch that. That ship has sailed, reached its destination, picked up some new passengers and sailed again.
We are so far past reasonable with all the old ships, non-Starfleet / non-KDF ships, ships from hundreds of years in the game's future, ships from the mirror universe, heck, ships from outright enemy factions, that its not even worth bothering anymore. We fought that war, and we lost, badly.
So yes, the old ships rock, still have not heard a good reason why we should not have them.
that's like the british navy putting the HMS Victory back into service .... its old but still rocks by your definition so surely this ancient first rate will be on line with the newest line of ships now do you see the futility of your statement
if you don't have a counter argument to preserving the proper time line of 2409 then don't post all this ships do nothing but degrade the suppose future time line we are suppose to be in
In the real world, some weapons and vehicles go on being used with few changes for quite long times. When I was in Iraq, I was a gunner on a truck which mounted an M2 Browning .50 calibre machine-gun, designed in 1933. My particular gun was built in 1939. It was rebuilt several times, but the only changes from the original design were the addition of a safety and mounting rails for modern optics.
The B-52s that the US Air Force currently flies were built in 1960. The current plan is to fly them until 2044.
In the real world, war machines get replaced when an entirely new technology emerges; steam ships replaced sail, steel ships replaced wood, missiles replaced cannons, etc. But if there are no new developments, or if the new technology can just be bolted in to old machines (the current fleet of 50-year old bombers has new engines and electronics inside the old airframes) then there is no reason that the old machines can't remain in service.
If you carry that into the Star Trek universe, there hasn't really been a change in what constitutes a starship. The components have advanced but it's all evolutionary change instead of revolutionary.
As has been mentioned before, the Miranda, Excelsior, and Oberth classes were all shown in service for a century, though the Miranda and Excelsior classes were upgraded extensively. There's no reason to think that trend wouldn't continue.
that's like the british navy putting the HMS Victory back into service .... its old but still rocks by your definition so surely this ancient first rate will be on line with the newest line of ships now do you see the futility of your statement
The Victory doesn't have the same types of parts as a modern ship. It wouldn't be possible to use modern components in it.
If it had a steel hull, and a diesel-turbine engine, then it probably could be rebuilt and reused.
In the case of Star Trek ships, you're trading out one warp drive for another, one set of shield generators for another, etc. In canon they were able to get old designs performing on par with newer ones by putting new components in them.
Actually refitting does not work that way some of the systems from say the Sovereign require a ship that is actually 700 meters long because this systems are that big the Defiant is no exception it's warp core was way to powerful for its frame and as a result of trying to cram to much technology into a such a small shell it suffered major problems the ship still has some serious issues in the series including it almost rendering its cloaking device void
that's like the british navy putting the HMS Victory back into service .... its old but still rocks by your definition so surely this ancient first rate will be on line with the newest line of ships now do you see the futility of your statement
Wooden ship Vs.Fake Sci Fi ship that if you can add the right techno babble can do anything...so no my statement stands.:D
people want to play Star Trek to play their favorite ship and that's what they are going to do...and nothing can be done about it...it pays Cryptic bills and so they are going to do it.
Also no one is forcing you to use the old ships, you can use the Cryptic made ones.
In the real world, some weapons and vehicles go on being used with few changes for quite long times. When I was in Iraq, I was a gunner on a truck which mounted an M2 Browning .50 calibre machine-gun, designed in 1933. My particular gun was built in 1939. It was rebuilt several times, but the only changes from the original design were the addition of a safety and mounting rails for modern optics.
The B-52s that the US Air Force currently flies were built in 1960. The current plan is to fly them until 2044.
In the real world, war machines get replaced when an entirely new technology emerges; steam ships replaced sail, steel ships replaced wood, missiles replaced cannons, etc. But if there are no new developments, or if the new technology can just be bolted in to old machines (the current fleet of 50-year old bombers has new engines and electronics inside the old airframes) then there is no reason that the old machines can't remain in service.
If you carry that into the Star Trek universe, there hasn't really been a change in what constitutes a starship. The components have advanced but it's all evolutionary change instead of revolutionary.
As has been mentioned before, the Miranda, Excelsior, and Oberth classes were all shown in service for a century, though the Miranda and Excelsior classes were upgraded extensively. There's no reason to think that trend wouldn't continue.
I understand what you want to say, but the matter is a bit more complicated than that.
Yes, machine guns have not changed that much over years, the German Army still uses a machine gun that's basically that same the Wehrmacht used in 1942.
But the type of targets it's intended to fight have not changed that much: people.
The German Army is however no longer using the Tiger or Panther from the 1940s because those have evolved quite a lot since then, even though tanks still use diesel engines (well some of them do), tracks and guns, so no drastic changes there.
Neither do the U.S. use Shermans or Pershings any more.
So there are areas where where weaponry and equipment has changed and where it has not depending on the context.
Generalizing that does not work very well.
Regarding units like the B-52, there are several things to take into account as well:
While carriers and strategic bombers can easily be used for half a century and more, this is mostly because the chances of them getting shot at is close to zero.
A strategic bomber is used after defenses that could threaten it are elimintated, usually by tactical bombers.
These tactical craft are usually far younger, because they are actually in danger of getting into an actual firefight.
Carriers...well I think that's obvious: they don't get in harm's way either unless something went terribly wrong.
And 'Trek ships are actually more like the evolving tanks and tactical bombers than the good'l B-52 or .50 macine gun, aren't they?
We don't need real world explanations why we can have old ships in a game...it's a game it's an MMo and people come here to play a game based on a very popular Science fiction that spans 47 years, and 5 series.
We don't need real world explanations why we can have old ships in a game...it's a game it's an MMo and people come here to play a game based on a very popular Science fiction that spans 47 years, and 5 series.
Oh, you wouldn't believe how delighted I am every time I take my Fleet K't'inga out for a spin.:P
We already saw Starfleet being forced to radically alter its ship designs. In TNG, it was proven that "traditional" warp travel was causing damage to space. (Someone please quote the episode.) All current vessels could not be modified due to the mechanics of warp travel, so they were instead restricted to Warp 6 or lower unless in cases of emergency.
Starfleet had to design an entirely new series of starships with different hull and warp geometry in order to prevent the damage to space. The Intrepid class was the first to use the new hull and warp geometry. By 2409, there had to be a whole lot more new designs in order to allow Starfleet to travel at Warp 9 again.
That's not even mentioning the SLIPSTREAM drive that's in common use now. Not even Voyager, the most technologically advanced warp ship Starfleet had in the TNG era, was able to achieve stable slipstream or transwarp flight. That required even further changes to hull and warp field geometry.
We already saw Starfleet being forced to radically alter its ship designs. In TNG, it was proven that "traditional" warp travel was causing damage to space. (Someone please quote the episode.) All current vessels could not be modified due to the mechanics of warp travel, so they were instead restricted to Warp 6 or lower unless in cases of emergency.
Starfleet had to design an entirely new series of starships with different hull and warp geometry in order to prevent the damage to space. The Intrepid class was the first to use the new hull and warp geometry. By 2409, there had to be a whole lot more new designs in order to allow Starfleet to travel at Warp 9 again.
That's not even mentioning the SLIPSTREAM drive that's in common use now. Not even Voyager, the most technologically advanced warp ship Starfleet had in the TNG era, was able to achieve stable slipstream or transwarp flight. That required even further changes to hull and warp field geometry.
So much for my "last post".
INcorrect. changes to hull geometry aren't needed and warp field geometry changes were made to the older ships. Not much of a paradigm shift really. Voyager's experiments in slipstream pioneered what we have now. IE a semi-stable version that is only used for short periods of time.
Personally I want more canon ships vs. crappy Cryptic designs. For starters how about the New Orleans, Niagara, Freedom, Springfield, Challenger, and Shelley/Curry.
Comments
I will never understand why people keep going for the oddball, hard to read text colors =/
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Because I don't want someone who complains about font choices to read what I have to day. It's not worth my time to type something when someone else is going to complain about its appearance rather than its substance.
People would be a lot more interested in your substance...,
if you weren't trying to be so 'cool' with the lousy color selection.
You don't get your point across, if people don't bother to read it.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Someone obviously doesn't understand sarcasm, even when it is blatantly dripping all over the post. :rolleyes:
Sarcasm was understood...
But again, the WIT is non-effective if nobody (beside me) bothers to read it...
You might just as well have used RED for all the effect it would have had.
(seeing how 'dripping' and 'sarcasm' have red tonal meanings)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
But that's just it - only those who bothered to read it would be "in" on the joke. Those who actually complain would be left without. A double entendre, if you will.
Regardless, this is the last I will say on the subject, or this thread. I find it idiotic that Cryptic makes old ships in an established "future" time, but I can't fault them for trying to make money. They are a business, after all. I just found it incredibly petty for someone to complain about font choice in a thread that's just arguing about a different kind of choice, is all.
Ahhh... Like Written Witticisms for the Legally Blind...
Jokes are best, when served in such a manner so as to invoke a response from the largest number of people possible.
In-Jokes, are for the mentally deranged. (in my humble opinion, of course)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I fail to see why not so long as the warp core was updated to provide the correct amount of power for it.
Besides, most of the 2409 versions of the ships would be built from the ground up with 2409 technology, ships do contain a lot of materials that are difficult or impossible to replicate, so smaller ships would use less of these materials and therefore be easier to build.
And it does make sense that starships have non-replicable materials in their construction, otherwise they'd have gigantic replicators in place of shipyards and would just replicate entire ships instead of repairing them.
Swtor did the same TRIBBLE they blended the prequals, the original movies and bang you got an abomination that appeals to the mainstream people so sad and wasted no wonder the game is doing terrible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfzwFloVqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HJxya0CWco
I used to think that. I fought and railed against it for a couple years, but you know what? That ship has already sailed. Wait, scratch that. That ship has sailed, reached its destination, picked up some new passengers and sailed again.
We are so far past reasonable with all the old ships, non-Starfleet / non-KDF ships, ships from hundreds of years in the game's future, ships from the mirror universe, heck, ships from outright enemy factions, that its not even worth bothering anymore. We fought that war, and we lost, badly.
that's like the british navy putting the HMS Victory back into service .... its old but still rocks by your definition so surely this ancient first rate will be on line with the newest line of ships now do you see the futility of your statement
The B-52s that the US Air Force currently flies were built in 1960. The current plan is to fly them until 2044.
In the real world, war machines get replaced when an entirely new technology emerges; steam ships replaced sail, steel ships replaced wood, missiles replaced cannons, etc. But if there are no new developments, or if the new technology can just be bolted in to old machines (the current fleet of 50-year old bombers has new engines and electronics inside the old airframes) then there is no reason that the old machines can't remain in service.
If you carry that into the Star Trek universe, there hasn't really been a change in what constitutes a starship. The components have advanced but it's all evolutionary change instead of revolutionary.
As has been mentioned before, the Miranda, Excelsior, and Oberth classes were all shown in service for a century, though the Miranda and Excelsior classes were upgraded extensively. There's no reason to think that trend wouldn't continue.
If it had a steel hull, and a diesel-turbine engine, then it probably could be rebuilt and reused.
In the case of Star Trek ships, you're trading out one warp drive for another, one set of shield generators for another, etc. In canon they were able to get old designs performing on par with newer ones by putting new components in them.
Wooden ship Vs.Fake Sci Fi ship that if you can add the right techno babble can do anything...so no my statement stands.:D
people want to play Star Trek to play their favorite ship and that's what they are going to do...and nothing can be done about it...it pays Cryptic bills and so they are going to do it.
Also no one is forcing you to use the old ships, you can use the Cryptic made ones.
I understand what you want to say, but the matter is a bit more complicated than that.
Yes, machine guns have not changed that much over years, the German Army still uses a machine gun that's basically that same the Wehrmacht used in 1942.
But the type of targets it's intended to fight have not changed that much: people.
The German Army is however no longer using the Tiger or Panther from the 1940s because those have evolved quite a lot since then, even though tanks still use diesel engines (well some of them do), tracks and guns, so no drastic changes there.
Neither do the U.S. use Shermans or Pershings any more.
So there are areas where where weaponry and equipment has changed and where it has not depending on the context.
Generalizing that does not work very well.
Regarding units like the B-52, there are several things to take into account as well:
While carriers and strategic bombers can easily be used for half a century and more, this is mostly because the chances of them getting shot at is close to zero.
A strategic bomber is used after defenses that could threaten it are elimintated, usually by tactical bombers.
These tactical craft are usually far younger, because they are actually in danger of getting into an actual firefight.
Carriers...well I think that's obvious: they don't get in harm's way either unless something went terribly wrong.
And 'Trek ships are actually more like the evolving tanks and tactical bombers than the good'l B-52 or .50 macine gun, aren't they?
Anyone else?
I blame Gene Roddenberry
Oh, you wouldn't believe how delighted I am every time I take my Fleet K't'inga out for a spin.:P
That's ridicilous...and...and...unrealistic...blame him for something that makes sense...blame him for the weather or something.;)
New Orleans I can get behind, Niagara I tend to put into the same category as the Yeager. Which is to say kill it with fire.
Starfleet had to design an entirely new series of starships with different hull and warp geometry in order to prevent the damage to space. The Intrepid class was the first to use the new hull and warp geometry. By 2409, there had to be a whole lot more new designs in order to allow Starfleet to travel at Warp 9 again.
That's not even mentioning the SLIPSTREAM drive that's in common use now. Not even Voyager, the most technologically advanced warp ship Starfleet had in the TNG era, was able to achieve stable slipstream or transwarp flight. That required even further changes to hull and warp field geometry.
So much for my "last post".
My character Tsin'xing