Actually, I will quote Picard, who reminds us that all opinions, no matter how backwards we may think them, should not be silenced out of fear.
"You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I assume you're quoting that ironically? Since the rest of your post is saying that we shouldn't be allowed to promote or celebrate our diversity on these forums or in this game... The exact opposite of what that quote is representing.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I wasnt debating if it was a choice or not i was debating if it should be brought into a video game for young kids to decide when theres better places to look for that info
I do not believe that being heterosexual or homosexual is a "lifestyle choice" any more than eating food or breathing oxygen is a "lifestyle choice". It is a basic biological impulse that predates the evolution of mankind.
I wasnt debating if it was a choice or not i was debating if it should be brought into a video game for young kids to decide when theres better places to look for that info
Mostly naked Orion women dancing seductively = ok
Two men love each other = OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN
This is not about civil rights. I support civil rights for everybody. Freedom and Fair-Play do not apply only to the people you happen to like or agree with.
This is about an article on diversity in a game and in society having a distinctly GLBT slant when diversity is supposed to be inclusive.
Why wasn't the episode "Melora" mentioned as an example of diversity as applied to persons with physical limitations? Why not point out that Leonard Nimoy, a Jewish man, was one of the lead actors? Why aren't we celebrating the casting of women into the role of starship captains and admirals?
In my opinion, this whole thing is extremely political. Since this was promoted by PWE I do not feel any freedom to either comment on the politics of this or to moderate this topic at all. Having expressed myself, I will now excuse myself from this thread.
Good, you are a forum moderator and you had no business expressing a personal opinion here. Volunteer or no, you have been given forum powers and responsibilities. Colour me unimpressed by your attitude.
We're not promoting lifestyle choices, we are promoting tolerance and respect of people who have taken these choices in the true spirit of Trek, something people here don't seem to understand, including a certain purple-named moderator...
I wasnt debating if it was a choice or not i was debating if it should be brought into a video game for young kids to decide when theres better places to look for that info
I am not really understanding your thesis. Are you contending that there is something inherently detrimental to the development of young children for them to learn that some humans experience the same amorous feelings for those of their own gender as other humans experience for those of opposite gender?
I am not really understanding your thesis. Are you contending that there is something inherently detrimental to the development of young children for them to learn that some humans experience the same amorous feelings for those of their own gender as other humans experience for those of opposite gender?
"Hate Speech You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations based on or related to race, ethnicity, religion, sect, color, national origin, age, gender, familial status, sexual orientation, disability status, veteran status, genetic information, etc."
I assume you're quoting that ironically? Since the rest of your post is saying that we shouldn't be allowed to promote or celebrate our diversity on these forums or in this game... The exact opposite of what that quote is representing.
Cryptic (PWE) taking a side in this issue is to me a worrying thing because they are the same people who decide what can and cant be said in game (foundry) and on the forums. On political topics, they ought to remain neutral, lest that "first link be forged." I have no problem with the content of the blog post. I have a problem with a political (or ANY non directly game related topic) stance being taken by Cryptic, even if they are right. The idea of free speech is to protect unpopular opinions.
Summary. Politics on a game forum: bad. Politics being brought up BY THE OWNERS OF THE GAME FORUM: scary / needs a Picard quote.
"Hate Speech You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations based on or related to race, ethnicity, religion, sect, color, national origin, age, gender, familial status, sexual orientation, disability status, veteran status, genetic information, etc."
/IB4TL
*grabs popcorn*
The original article doesn't breach that. Several of the posts in this thread do however.
Cryptic (PWE) taking a side in this issue is to me a worrying thing because they are the same people who decide what can and cant be said in game (foundry) and on the forums. On political topics, they ought to remain neutral, lest that "first link be forged." I have no problem with the content of the blog post. I have a problem with a political (or ANY non directly game related topic) stance being taken by Cryptic, even if they are right. The idea of free speech is to protect unpopular opinions.
Summary. Politics on a game forum: bad. Politics being brought up BY THE OWNERS OF THE GAME FORUM: scary / needs a Picard quote.
The politics itself: no comment.
The 'first link' you continue to quote incorrectly, would be forged (as it already has been in society) by not allowing people to express their sexuality. Not by allowing it.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
The original article doesn't breach that. Several of the posts in this thread do however.
The 'first link' you continue to quote incorrectly, would be forged (as it already has been in society) by not allowing people to express their sexuality. Not by allowing it.
So, this is taken directly from the guest blog post:
"My fleet, Stonewall Fleet, is a TRIBBLE, TRIBBLE, bisexual, transgender and straight ally fleet, and every year we celebrate our own corner of diversity by hosting a weekend of events in remembrance of our name sake, the Stonewall Rebellion. We are proud to host the Fourth Annual Pride Weekend this month. Every year, we open this event to the entire Star Trek Online community so they can come celebrate this historic event with us. The event will span the weekend of June 29th and 30th with events planned throughout the days. As well, we have prizes available for participants and contest winners. We welcome anyone who would like to attend. To participate, please join the public, in-game channel: STOPride"
It's a Fleet event, celebrating people's right to choose, whether the majority agree or not. The blog also directly mentions other groups that many of the Star Trek actors represented making the first difficult strides into acceptance.
I see no reason why a company should not support their customer base organizing events to celebrate this diversity, or the long hard road to get here.
This isn't an educational event, its not required, and I highly doubt it will be inappropriate, so why is this even being considered inappropriate for anyone? It's not like they are sponsoring an alt-sex ed course on STO. Perhaps if kids realize that more people around them live different lifestyles than they do, schools and playgrounds will slowly stop being grounds for bullying based on differences, and life in general can be improved.
Not saying that this event will change the world, but hey, you never know. I bet Rosa Parks didn't set out to change the world at first.
Please, tell me where I've shown "hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations" in my posts.
It's implied, by stating that this is inappropriate for a group of children to be exposed to, that the lifestyle choices are wrong and shameful. Indirectly, that says that anyone who makes that choice should be hidden away from the eyes of the general public.
As far as I'm concerned, be proud of who YOU are, regardless of heritage, race, religion or sexual orientation, and don't put others down because of their differences. Personally I'm a Caucasian male of Irish heritage, and I'm proud of it, and whether you're TRIBBLE or straight, white or black, fat or thin, be proud of yourself, and don't let close-mindedness or ignorance make you feel any other way.
While some of the backlash isn't surprising, Star Trek has always been about diversity and understanding, and this article is a good reminder of that. Good read!
"[GARBLED ELECTRONIC NOISES]"
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
As far as I'm concerned, be proud of who YOU are, regardless of heritage, race, religion or sexual orientation, and don't put others down because of their differences. Personally I'm a Caucasian male of Irish heritage, and I'm proud of it, and whether you're TRIBBLE or straight, white or black, fat or thin, be proud of yourself, and don't let close-mindedness or ignorance make you feel any other way.
While some of the backlash isn't surprising, Star Trek has always been about diversity and understanding, and this article is a good reminder of that. Good read!
It's implied, by stating that this is inappropriate for a group of children to be exposed to, that the lifestyle choices are wrong and shameful. Indirectly, that says that anyone who makes that choice should be hidden away from the eyes of the general public.
I think you're getting me confused with somebody else. I am TRIBBLE myself and I don't think sexuality should be hidden away from children, in fact I think it's something that should be openly discussed because only by educating the young to understand and accept differences, will our society as a whole ever reach the point where acceptance of diversity is the norm.
As far as I'm concerned, be proud of who YOU are, regardless of heritage, race, religion or sexual orientation, and don't put others down because of their differences. Personally I'm a Caucasian male of Irish heritage, and I'm proud of it, and whether you're TRIBBLE or straight, white or black, fat or thin, be proud of yourself, and don't let close-mindedness or ignorance make you feel any other way.
While some of the backlash isn't surprising, Star Trek has always been about diversity and understanding, and this article is a good reminder of that. Good read!
Well said.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I see no reason why a company should endorse a persons sexuality and promote an event about that persons sexuality regardless of what it is. Its why most companies dont do it to much conflict of interest involved.
So, this is taken directly from the guest blog post:
"My fleet, Stonewall Fleet, is a TRIBBLE, TRIBBLE, bisexual, transgender and straight ally fleet, and every year we celebrate our own corner of diversity by hosting a weekend of events in remembrance of our name sake, the Stonewall Rebellion. We are proud to host the Fourth Annual Pride Weekend this month. Every year, we open this event to the entire Star Trek Online community so they can come celebrate this historic event with us. The event will span the weekend of June 29th and 30th with events planned throughout the days. As well, we have prizes available for participants and contest winners. We welcome anyone who would like to attend. To participate, please join the public, in-game channel: STOPride"
It's a Fleet event, celebrating people's right to choose, whether the majority agree or not. The blog also directly mentions other groups that many of the Star Trek actors represented making the first difficult strides into acceptance.
I see no reason why a company should not support their customer base organizing events to celebrate this diversity, or the long hard road to get here.
This isn't an educational event, its not required, and I highly doubt it will be inappropriate, so why is this even being considered inappropriate for anyone? It's not like they are sponsoring an alt-sex ed course on STO. Perhaps if kids realize that more people around them live different lifestyles than they do, schools and playgrounds will slowly stop being grounds for bullying based on differences, and life in general can be improved.
Not saying that this event will change the world, but hey, you never know. I bet Rosa Parks didn't set out to change the world at first.
I think you're getting me confused with somebody else. I am TRIBBLE myself and I don't think sexuality should be hidden away from children, in fact I think it's something that should be openly discussed because only by educating the young to understand and accept differences, will our society as a whole ever reach the point where acceptance of diversity is the norm.
Well said.
Apologies, I incorrectly thought you were the one that stated that earlier. I retract my previous statement :P
...
The 'first link' you continue to quote incorrectly, would be forged (as it already has been in society) by not allowing people to express their sexuality. Not by allowing it.
We are debating two different things. I am saying that by taking an official stance ON THESE FORUMS about an issue we are not allowed to debate on these forums, the Picard quote applies to Cryptic. I am making no mention of whether the stance is correct or not. As for whether the Picard quote can be used in the general context of this social issue: you are completely right it can, and it certainly does.
I see no reason why a company should endorse a persons sexuality and promote an event about that persons sexuality regardless of what it is. Its why most companies dont do it to much conflict of interest involved.
I see no endorsement of sexuality, I see an endorsement of diversity.
If this was an event about the color of skin or religion, would there be this much resistance?
Both of which, by the way, are also mentioned in paragraphs of the blog post.
Cryptic (PWE) taking a side in this issue is to me a worrying thing because they are the same people who decide what can and cant be said in game (foundry) and on the forums. On political topics, they ought to remain neutral, lest that "first link be forged." I have no problem with the content of the blog post. I have a problem with a political (or ANY non directly game related topic) stance being taken by Cryptic, even if they are right. The idea of free speech is to protect unpopular opinions.
Summary. Politics on a game forum: bad. Politics being brought up BY THE OWNERS OF THE GAME FORUM: scary / needs a Picard quote.
The politics itself: no comment.
Star Trek was never politically or socially neutral. As an heir to the franchise, I see no problems with PWE carrying the mantle of Gene Roddenbury's vision in terms of the game itself.
Uhuru, Chekov, Spock, Vina, and Sulu were put on the show to help promote Roddenbury's idea of all humans, regardless of their political beliefs, or ethnic and racial histories, were equals.
The TNG episode The Outcast was written to show that there are many valid forms of sexual identity and that they should be embraced.
The Ferengi were created as a foil to the socialistic Federation to show that unregulated capitalistic ideals which rewarded avarice and mammon were concepts that were keeping humanity from achieving its full potential.
We are debating two different things. I am saying that by taking an official stance ON THESE FORUMS about an issue we are not allowed to debate on these forums, the Picard quote applies to Cryptic. I am making no mention of whether the stance is correct or not. As for whether the Picard quote can be used in the general context of this social issue: you are completely right it can, and it certainly does.
I see what you mean. Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Though personally I think it's brave and right of PWE to do this. Especially after the debacle last week with the Legacy pack event which left a lot of us feeling rather dismayed regarding their attitudes towards sexuality equality.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I see no reason why a company should endorse a persons sexuality and promote an event about that persons sexuality regardless of what it is. Its why most companies dont do it to much conflict of interest involved.
Almost none of them.
Other than Budweiser, HBO, Smirnoff, Oreo, Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, JCP, Facebook...
And thats off the top of my head.
(It happens all the time, is what I'm saying)
I see what you mean. Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Though personally I think it's brave and right of PWE to do this. Especially after the debacle last week with the Legacy pack event which left a lot of us feeling rather dismayed regarding their attitudes towards sexuality equality.
No worries. I admit I was using a quote that could be applied just as easily to your argument, and it probably looked odd given how and where I used it. For the record, I haven't a clue what happened regarding the legacy pack giveaway, so perhaps I am missing something in all this.
I'm a firm believer that all human life is precious, no matter what their color, gender, age, culture, religion, politics, handicap, how they behave, or what they believe.
I also applaud many of the "firsts" pioneered by Star Trek. Human rights and the dignity and liberty of the individual are important.
I do not, however, appreciate the sexual orientation "bent" of this article or the plug for Stonewall and I don't believe that STO should be portrayed as a showcase for the GLBT community.
Diversity encompasses ALL of us, including those of us who hold different beliefs.
I am very disappointed that PWE allowed and promoted this. We are not allowed to discuss religion or politics or offensive topics on the forums, but this was deemed acceptable?
As my signature states, the above is all my own opinion and does not represent anyone's viewpoint but my own.
I could not have worded this better myself.
Pride has traditionally been a political event. The presence of this blog post is an endorsement by Cryptic of a political event, whether they meant for that to be the case or not.
I am in complete agreement with those that feel this blog is inappropriate. Cryptic is endorsing one group of people over others, and one fleet over others. Last I checked there were multiple LGBT fleets in game, why aren't they included, or even mentioned?
If this fleet wants to throw themselves a pride party and open the invite up to all STO players, then all power to them. However the details of their party and the invite should have been made in the General Discussion forum, not the official blog post section. I suggest this blog post be moved to that forum.
Oh and before anyone cries "Cryptic isn't endorsing anything", they are. Guest blogs don't just appear out of thin air by anyone. They have to be submitted, and signed off by someone at Cryptic/PWE in order to be added to the website.
Pride has traditionally been a political event. The presence of this blog post is an endorsement by Cryptic of a political event, whether they meant for that to be the case or not.
I am in complete agreement with those that feel this blog is inappropriate. Cryptic is endorsing one group of people over others, and one fleet over others. Last I checked there were multiple LGBT fleets in game, why aren't they included, or even mentioned?
If this fleet wants to throw themselves a pride party and open the invite up to all STO players, then all power to them. However the details of their party and the invite should have been made in the General Discussion forum, not the official blog post section. I suggest this blog post be moved to that forum.
Oh and before anyone cries "Cryptic isn't endorsing anything", they are. Guest blogs don't just appear out of thin air by anyone. They have to be submitted, and signed off by someone at Cryptic/PWE in order to be added to the website.
I agree, but applying logic to a situation ruled by emotion won't work around here.
Comments
I assume you're quoting that ironically? Since the rest of your post is saying that we shouldn't be allowed to promote or celebrate our diversity on these forums or in this game... The exact opposite of what that quote is representing.
Mostly naked Orion women dancing seductively = ok
Two men love each other = OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN
Good, you are a forum moderator and you had no business expressing a personal opinion here. Volunteer or no, you have been given forum powers and responsibilities. Colour me unimpressed by your attitude.
I am not really understanding your thesis. Are you contending that there is something inherently detrimental to the development of young children for them to learn that some humans experience the same amorous feelings for those of their own gender as other humans experience for those of opposite gender?
You mean acceptance of diversity? Of which you are showing none.
You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations based on or related to race, ethnicity, religion, sect, color, national origin, age, gender, familial status, sexual orientation, disability status, veteran status, genetic information, etc."
/IB4TL
*grabs popcorn*
Cryptic (PWE) taking a side in this issue is to me a worrying thing because they are the same people who decide what can and cant be said in game (foundry) and on the forums. On political topics, they ought to remain neutral, lest that "first link be forged." I have no problem with the content of the blog post. I have a problem with a political (or ANY non directly game related topic) stance being taken by Cryptic, even if they are right. The idea of free speech is to protect unpopular opinions.
Summary. Politics on a game forum: bad. Politics being brought up BY THE OWNERS OF THE GAME FORUM: scary / needs a Picard quote.
The politics itself: no comment.
The original article doesn't breach that. Several of the posts in this thread do however.
The 'first link' you continue to quote incorrectly, would be forged (as it already has been in society) by not allowing people to express their sexuality. Not by allowing it.
"My fleet, Stonewall Fleet, is a TRIBBLE, TRIBBLE, bisexual, transgender and straight ally fleet, and every year we celebrate our own corner of diversity by hosting a weekend of events in remembrance of our name sake, the Stonewall Rebellion. We are proud to host the Fourth Annual Pride Weekend this month. Every year, we open this event to the entire Star Trek Online community so they can come celebrate this historic event with us. The event will span the weekend of June 29th and 30th with events planned throughout the days. As well, we have prizes available for participants and contest winners. We welcome anyone who would like to attend. To participate, please join the public, in-game channel: STOPride"
It's a Fleet event, celebrating people's right to choose, whether the majority agree or not. The blog also directly mentions other groups that many of the Star Trek actors represented making the first difficult strides into acceptance.
I see no reason why a company should not support their customer base organizing events to celebrate this diversity, or the long hard road to get here.
This isn't an educational event, its not required, and I highly doubt it will be inappropriate, so why is this even being considered inappropriate for anyone? It's not like they are sponsoring an alt-sex ed course on STO. Perhaps if kids realize that more people around them live different lifestyles than they do, schools and playgrounds will slowly stop being grounds for bullying based on differences, and life in general can be improved.
Not saying that this event will change the world, but hey, you never know. I bet Rosa Parks didn't set out to change the world at first.
Oh, and as for this being inappropriate for children, the Governor of the state of California disagrees:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/14/california.lgbt.education/index.html
Please, tell me where I've shown "hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations" in my posts.
It's implied, by stating that this is inappropriate for a group of children to be exposed to, that the lifestyle choices are wrong and shameful. Indirectly, that says that anyone who makes that choice should be hidden away from the eyes of the general public.
While some of the backlash isn't surprising, Star Trek has always been about diversity and understanding, and this article is a good reminder of that. Good read!
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
+1 to you
I think you're getting me confused with somebody else. I am TRIBBLE myself and I don't think sexuality should be hidden away from children, in fact I think it's something that should be openly discussed because only by educating the young to understand and accept differences, will our society as a whole ever reach the point where acceptance of diversity is the norm.
Well said.
Apologies, I incorrectly thought you were the one that stated that earlier. I retract my previous statement :P
Haha no worries.
We are debating two different things. I am saying that by taking an official stance ON THESE FORUMS about an issue we are not allowed to debate on these forums, the Picard quote applies to Cryptic. I am making no mention of whether the stance is correct or not. As for whether the Picard quote can be used in the general context of this social issue: you are completely right it can, and it certainly does.
I see no endorsement of sexuality, I see an endorsement of diversity.
If this was an event about the color of skin or religion, would there be this much resistance?
Both of which, by the way, are also mentioned in paragraphs of the blog post.
Star Trek was never politically or socially neutral. As an heir to the franchise, I see no problems with PWE carrying the mantle of Gene Roddenbury's vision in terms of the game itself.
Uhuru, Chekov, Spock, Vina, and Sulu were put on the show to help promote Roddenbury's idea of all humans, regardless of their political beliefs, or ethnic and racial histories, were equals.
The TNG episode The Outcast was written to show that there are many valid forms of sexual identity and that they should be embraced.
The Ferengi were created as a foil to the socialistic Federation to show that unregulated capitalistic ideals which rewarded avarice and mammon were concepts that were keeping humanity from achieving its full potential.
I see what you mean. Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Though personally I think it's brave and right of PWE to do this. Especially after the debacle last week with the Legacy pack event which left a lot of us feeling rather dismayed regarding their attitudes towards sexuality equality.
Almost none of them.
Other than Budweiser, HBO, Smirnoff, Oreo, Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, JCP, Facebook...
And thats off the top of my head.
(It happens all the time, is what I'm saying)
No worries. I admit I was using a quote that could be applied just as easily to your argument, and it probably looked odd given how and where I used it. For the record, I haven't a clue what happened regarding the legacy pack giveaway, so perhaps I am missing something in all this.
I could not have worded this better myself.
Pride has traditionally been a political event. The presence of this blog post is an endorsement by Cryptic of a political event, whether they meant for that to be the case or not.
I am in complete agreement with those that feel this blog is inappropriate. Cryptic is endorsing one group of people over others, and one fleet over others. Last I checked there were multiple LGBT fleets in game, why aren't they included, or even mentioned?
If this fleet wants to throw themselves a pride party and open the invite up to all STO players, then all power to them. However the details of their party and the invite should have been made in the General Discussion forum, not the official blog post section. I suggest this blog post be moved to that forum.
Oh and before anyone cries "Cryptic isn't endorsing anything", they are. Guest blogs don't just appear out of thin air by anyone. They have to be submitted, and signed off by someone at Cryptic/PWE in order to be added to the website.
I agree, but applying logic to a situation ruled by emotion won't work around here.