I got bored of reading the pigeon english spelling, pot stirring and PVE player inaccuracies after page 3 so:
Pound for pound i think the Jemmy is over powered. I thought so before i got one and i still think so. But there are SO MANY Jemmies around it doesen't matter anymore. After the previous Q Wonderland they were still a rarety, kept at the 800-1Billion mark. But since then they've been re-released twice by our greedy game developers. They are now HALF the price they once were. A car was "OP" before everyone got one. Now cars are pretty normal.
This subject has become tedius. It usually flares up because of the same few who don't yet own one wanting to make it clear they don't for whatever reason. Before i may have been the same. But JHAS' are so common now anything special about them is lost in the mix. Get over it.
On the subject of "Oh noes! If somebody has these new consoles equipped they'll be in perma-godmode!!11" - no, because that involves 160million EC's worth of devotion that won't really pay off unless the player is with a decent team that can exploit the 2 consoles properly. Get over it.
As i said, the subject is tedius, kids. We've had these topics for over a year now, since then the ship has been buffed. They put it where it is for a good reason. It makes Cryptic lots of money every time. And as long as total idiots pay fistfuls for it while i can so far grind to buy TWO of them, the world is fine in my book. They're paying so i don't have too.
Have my babies
But there is time for devs to release the next OPed thing... The Vesta was thought to be the chosen one but then it turn out to be a bust. But there will be another op thing to hit the scene... Make the bug look like a toy... Gigs cryptic... Ggs in advance
The Average PvP player
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
I suspect that the JHAS wouldn't be such an issue if a lot of people didn't already feel as though escorts were superior in a lot of ways to the other ship classes. As the most powerful of all the escorts, it becomes a very easy target for hatred in the community.
As has been being discussed in other threads recently, a large part of the blame with the success of the JHAS probably lies with Dual Heavy Cannons. As they are now, they provide far too much burst in comparison to the other weapon classes. Since the JHAS has an extremely high turn rate, it has the highest potential to utilize the DHC's, making it seem like a potent and overpowered advantage.
If DHC firing rate was normalized to the standard of the DC's and single cannons, the JHAS would still be really good, but the damage would be far more manageable in a team setting. That isn't to say that it isn't still itemized too high in stats compared to the other escorts, but it would manage to keep it from being the insane damage-pressure machine it is now.
Turn rate has a high value only because it's the best stat to increase damage with DHC's. Most other escorts need a burst ability like Beam Overload to land kills where the JHAS can keep enough uptime to do without.
"Would Turkish RP Heroes EVER field a team of 5 in Arena or Ker'rat, without a Jem'Hadar Attack ship on the lineup?"
Answer's probably "No, they're not stupid."
I am afraid that answer is not correct. Turkish RP Heroes is not dependent on the JHAS.
While I will not deny that the JHAS is in my opinion the best escort overall (and that being the reason why JHAS is the prefered escort of choice), ships like the Fleet Escort, Fleet Patrol Escort, Steamrunner, or Moebius are also viable in team settings. If set up right, these ships can be operated just like the JHAS. An opposing team would hardly feel the difference.
A skilled escort player will be almost as deadly on other, "lesser" escorts as well.
Put Broken or Mara Jade in a Defiant, or Shimmer in a MVAM, or Randal in a Moebius, or Yoda or Strike in a fricking shuttle , and you'll see what I mean.
In some of my videos (link in signature) among other things you can see me flying a Fleet Patrol with some success as well.
And by the way, Turkish ERP Heroes is NOT Turkish RP Heroes (damn you Broken )
ermmm.... I call BS on your "Skill" claim-it takes NO skill to run a Bugship, just money and/or time to buy it.
Most of that time, incidentally, would be spent on PvE, as in EC grinding, with some Doffing along the way.
An UN_BUFFED JHAS is as good as a lot of ships can temporarily get with buffs and rep passives, there is no 'skill' involved beyond the barest of basics to running one.
Let us go over this again...
Turn rate of a Bird of Prey (but without the disadvantages)
Shields of a Cruiser (but without the disadvantages)
One of the best Hull strengths you can get on an Escort (matches some cruisers, even)
Universal Bridge officer slots (you don't get that on FedScorts or Raptors)
High Impulse modifer (there may be some fighters that can match this)
Five tac consoles (the other ships with 5 TC's sacrifice heavily for them-only the Jem ship sacrifices NOTHING for it...)
1 sci slot you'll never actually need.
and you say it's not OP.
B.S., it's not OP, it's Munchkin. It's the kid who used to show up for a D&D game with all 18's on his stat sheet, and a Legendary Relic magic item he found under the cupboard at home (and for a 'flaw' a "Tragic Past" that reads like a particularly bad form of marysue fanfiction.) It's munchkin to the level of the guy who shows up to the Battletech game with his Clan/Mixed tech custom assembled out of cherry-picked items from Maxtech, with the 0/0 pilot with EI and DNI implants (buffered, of course), myomer subcutaneous armor, etc. to ignore pilot hits...in a 3025 setting.
It's an Ewok with more Darkside points than the EMPEROR, (and his own private sun-crusher) level.
Okay, maybe that last bit was an exaggeration.
but don't pretend it takes ANY skill to run this thing, don't lie to yourself that way. No skills are actually NEEDED to run a Bugship save one: "Hit Spacebar and steer on Autofire".
shields of a cruiser??
1 sci console does not = shields of a cruiser, i dont even bother using my sci console in my bug for shields and with mark XII maco shields im barely over 9k shield cap
But there is time for devs to release the next OPed thing... The Vesta was thought to be the chosen one but then it turn out to be a bust. But there will be another op thing to hit the scene... Make the bug look like a toy... Gigs cryptic... Ggs in advance
the vesta is the op science ship, it has edges over every other science ship in the game making it the "must have" of science ships.
you show me a sci build on any other sci ship and ill show you how the vesta can do it, and do it better.
There's one thing* I don't understand. The JHAS is available to both factions, so ANYYONE in the game can potentially fly one if they put enough effort towards getting the EC for one.
*Ok, there's LOTS of things, but only one relevant to this thread :P
The way I see it, the people QQing about balance are the people that are just too lazy to actually go and pick one up for themselves, and are bitter about the players that are lucky/wealthy enough to own one.
The way I see it, the people QQing about balance are the people that are just too lazy to actually go and pick one up for themselves, and are bitter about the players that are lucky/wealthy enough to own one.
You clearly haven't read the thread in question.
No one is bitter about anything. Why is it when someone makes an observation about the JHAS in comparison to other Escorts you have some weasel claim that it's a null observation because you don't own it or are jealous?
Apart from a few people, no one is asking for a nerf. They just want the other Escorts to be made relevant again.
I don't mind the JHAS having the stats it has, I just want an excuse to take my Defiant into a fight against one.
I'm not gonna argue whether or not the Bug is the best escort in the game, I don't really have anything to add to that.
BUT
In a way, the Bug is kind of like SNB DOFFs. Namely that at the start, they were extremely rare, worth a ton of EC. They got much more common eventually, and much cheaper because of it. As such, the proliferation of SNB DOFFs is what eventually led to the big SNB-crisis last year.
On a similar note, the bug ship is the same way. Originally it was extraordinarily rare. However, now that they've been re-released twice, there are a ton more out there, so they're much more apparent when you see them. As such, maybe before it was...tolerable to deal with bugs. Regardless of whether they are OP or not, they were few and far between.
Now, not so much. You see them much more often, and because of it, they are playing a larger role in PvP, much like the SNB DOFFs did.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Yes, you can add one more Field Generators on a cruiser as they typically have 2 sci slots but does not change the fact the JHAS have the shield modifier of a typical cruiser were only the Ody and Fleet Cruisers have a higher one.
The only escort that have the same shield modifier is the Steamrunner, even the Fleet Escorts stay at .99 modifier.
Well what class of ships do you think the JHAS is in?
Galor = Shield mod 1.3
D'kora = Shield Mod 1.15
C-store Ody = Shield Mod 1.15
Fleet AC-R / SC / Galaxy = Shield Mod 1.1
Vesta = Shield Mod 1.35
Wells = Shield Mod 1.45
Orb = Shield Mod 1.4
Recluse = Shield Mod 1.375
I get it, there is power creep and people hate it - but so many players have severe tunnel vision when it comes to the JHAS.
I have to get over that I'll never have a T5 fleet ship, but I ain't whining, I don't wanna spend the $$$ for it. ( the $$$ referring to the cost to get your base/shipyard to T5 )
the steam runner was on sale for a limited time, the dlc is still available.
am i the only one who thinks this only 1 sci console argument is a complete joke of an excuse? oh, it can only slot 1 field gen! ...you people seriously still use those? thats sad.
(witness the 1.2 Shield mod on the Intrepid R) this is a trait shared with the Wells/Korath (Lockbox lotto ship.)
The Wells has a 1.45 mod.
Mimey's point is irrelevant.
Fleet & Lockbox ships are effectively their own tier at this point. They have no business being compared to the majority of "T5" C store ships when they are clear Tier 5.5 or higher in stats.
I honestly dont care if you think you can defend such an op pos exploit machine. You cant.with a copy paste exploit build the bug can turn circles around any other escorts, rendering said escort defenseless as it is impossible to get your dhcs to bear. On top of this, the speed renders the bug a supertank as 60% of shots miss, even if they decide to toy with you and not just sit behind you with no ability to turn on them.
It is a routine occourence in kerrat for a bug to tank 5 plus enemy ships taking no damage at all, resulting in ships just giving up and the bug free to chase down anyone he choses. Its an escort, not a tank, and the way players have bastardized it is a joke and completely gamebreaking. People that pilot these I win buttons know this and are some sad geeks.
Nonesense. I rock 17k shields with MACO MK12, with 2 shield consoles. And the turn rate is decent :P
well, i suppose its not quite so parameter breaching, the fleet sci ships mostly have a 1.43 shield mod. the wells only turns like a qin, no one thinks thats decent, maybe they arent OP at all! :eek:
well, i suppose its not quite so parameter breaching, the fleet sci ships mostly have a 1.43 shield mod. the wells only turns like a qin, no one thinks thats decent, maybe they arent OP at all! :eek:
Nope hardly
Now give me a timeship with performance equivalent of the JHAS performance then yes, i will agree to your statement that timeships are powerful.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
It have a 1 shield modifier, Cruisers have also a shield modifier of 1.
Yes, you can add one more Field Generators on a cruiser as they typically have 2 sci slots but does not change the fact the JHAS have the shield modifier of a typical cruiser were only the Ody and Fleet Cruisers have a higher one.
The only escort that have the same shield modifier is the Steamrunner, even the Fleet Escorts stay at .99 modifier.
Again your not going to get some 15k-20k shield cap on a jem bug,,,and even if you could it would be useless as you dont have the sci abilities to heal that much cap, 2 universal stations that are only LT and i use one for eng, and one for sci.
I switched to a full borg setup just messing around and my shield cap now is a hair under 7k
You have veered off into a different discussion. The conversation was on shield mods, and the apparently amazing shield mod of the JHAS compared to "cruisers" - which meant standard C-store T5 cruisers.
Which is a laughably silly thing to compare them to in the face of Fleet & Lockbox Cruisers.
Likewise the Timeships. They're GOOD, but not Jem'Hadar good
The Wells class has a base 15 turn on a Sci ship, 1.45 shield mod and the ability to completely forego any tac boff stations in favor of all out healing/Sci load out.
As usual most people either don't notice or care, it's all tunnel vision on the JHAS.
Untill Wells/Korath appeared, it was unimaginable to even think going to fight against best Jem pilots out there, in 1vs1 lets say. When those ships came, I felt I could hold the line and even beat those. I was right. U cannot beat Zelda, Yoda, and the rest superb Jem pilots with Voyager for instance, or even Vesta, no matter how u do it right. Its just simple math. With Wells/Korath u can. Or, at least make them run for their money. So, I might say Wells/Korath are science counter for Jem. A little bit offtopic, but only my 2 cents.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Comments
Have my babies
But there is time for devs to release the next OPed thing... The Vesta was thought to be the chosen one but then it turn out to be a bust. But there will be another op thing to hit the scene... Make the bug look like a toy... Gigs cryptic... Ggs in advance
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
As has been being discussed in other threads recently, a large part of the blame with the success of the JHAS probably lies with Dual Heavy Cannons. As they are now, they provide far too much burst in comparison to the other weapon classes. Since the JHAS has an extremely high turn rate, it has the highest potential to utilize the DHC's, making it seem like a potent and overpowered advantage.
If DHC firing rate was normalized to the standard of the DC's and single cannons, the JHAS would still be really good, but the damage would be far more manageable in a team setting. That isn't to say that it isn't still itemized too high in stats compared to the other escorts, but it would manage to keep it from being the insane damage-pressure machine it is now.
Turn rate has a high value only because it's the best stat to increase damage with DHC's. Most other escorts need a burst ability like Beam Overload to land kills where the JHAS can keep enough uptime to do without.
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
I am afraid that answer is not correct. Turkish RP Heroes is not dependent on the JHAS.
While I will not deny that the JHAS is in my opinion the best escort overall (and that being the reason why JHAS is the prefered escort of choice), ships like the Fleet Escort, Fleet Patrol Escort, Steamrunner, or Moebius are also viable in team settings. If set up right, these ships can be operated just like the JHAS. An opposing team would hardly feel the difference.
A skilled escort player will be almost as deadly on other, "lesser" escorts as well.
Put Broken or Mara Jade in a Defiant, or Shimmer in a MVAM, or Randal in a Moebius, or Yoda or Strike in a fricking shuttle
In some of my videos (link in signature) among other things you can see me flying a Fleet Patrol with some success as well.
And by the way, Turkish ERP Heroes is NOT Turkish RP Heroes (damn you Broken
shields of a cruiser??
1 sci console does not = shields of a cruiser, i dont even bother using my sci console in my bug for shields and with mark XII maco shields im barely over 9k shield cap
the vesta is the op science ship, it has edges over every other science ship in the game making it the "must have" of science ships.
you show me a sci build on any other sci ship and ill show you how the vesta can do it, and do it better.
Do you even Science Bro?
*Ok, there's LOTS of things, but only one relevant to this thread :P
The way I see it, the people QQing about balance are the people that are just too lazy to actually go and pick one up for themselves, and are bitter about the players that are lucky/wealthy enough to own one.
You clearly haven't read the thread in question.
No one is bitter about anything. Why is it when someone makes an observation about the JHAS in comparison to other Escorts you have some weasel claim that it's a null observation because you don't own it or are jealous?
Apart from a few people, no one is asking for a nerf. They just want the other Escorts to be made relevant again.
I don't mind the JHAS having the stats it has, I just want an excuse to take my Defiant into a fight against one.
BUT
In a way, the Bug is kind of like SNB DOFFs. Namely that at the start, they were extremely rare, worth a ton of EC. They got much more common eventually, and much cheaper because of it. As such, the proliferation of SNB DOFFs is what eventually led to the big SNB-crisis last year.
On a similar note, the bug ship is the same way. Originally it was extraordinarily rare. However, now that they've been re-released twice, there are a ton more out there, so they're much more apparent when you see them. As such, maybe before it was...tolerable to deal with bugs. Regardless of whether they are OP or not, they were few and far between.
Now, not so much. You see them much more often, and because of it, they are playing a larger role in PvP, much like the SNB DOFFs did.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Well what class of ships do you think the JHAS is in?
Galor = Shield mod 1.3
D'kora = Shield Mod 1.15
C-store Ody = Shield Mod 1.15
Fleet AC-R / SC / Galaxy = Shield Mod 1.1
Vesta = Shield Mod 1.35
Wells = Shield Mod 1.45
Orb = Shield Mod 1.4
Recluse = Shield Mod 1.375
I get it, there is power creep and people hate it - but so many players have severe tunnel vision when it comes to the JHAS.
Silly argument. JHAS is good because it turns 40 deg/sec - make the other escorts turn as good and there would be less whines.
Get used to it
$$$ = better ships
Free to $25 = decent ships
I have to get over that I'll never have a T5 fleet ship, but I ain't whining, I don't wanna spend the $$$ for it. ( the $$$ referring to the cost to get your base/shipyard to T5 )
Steamrunner is still up for sale.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/9908/
And yeah, the Steamrunner is really hampered by the ENS Sci.
The only thing I'd try with it is a Damage Control build of some kind.
am i the only one who thinks this only 1 sci console argument is a complete joke of an excuse? oh, it can only slot 1 field gen! ...you people seriously still use those? thats sad.
Yeah, that was the point.
Feel free to go and compare those lockbox/fleet Sci & Cruiser ships to Cstore Sci and Cruiser ships that are not the Vesta or Ody.
?
Again, missing the forest for the trees.
The Vesta has 0.5 higher mod than other C store sci ships.
The Wells has a higher mod (1.45) than all C store sci ships.
The Galor has Sci ship level shielding at a whopping 1.3 mod, .15 higher than the Ody.
The Wells has a 1.45 mod.
Mimey's point is irrelevant.
Fleet & Lockbox ships are effectively their own tier at this point. They have no business being compared to the majority of "T5" C store ships when they are clear Tier 5.5 or higher in stats.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
It is a routine occourence in kerrat for a bug to tank 5 plus enemy ships taking no damage at all, resulting in ships just giving up and the bug free to chase down anyone he choses. Its an escort, not a tank, and the way players have bastardized it is a joke and completely gamebreaking. People that pilot these I win buttons know this and are some sad geeks.
Nonesense. I rock 17k shields with MACO MK12, with 2 shield consoles. And the turn rate is decent :P
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
well, i suppose its not quite so parameter breaching, the fleet sci ships mostly have a 1.43 shield mod. the wells only turns like a qin, no one thinks thats decent, maybe they arent OP at all! :eek:
Nope hardly
Now give me a timeship with performance equivalent of the JHAS performance then yes, i will agree to your statement that timeships are powerful.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Again your not going to get some 15k-20k shield cap on a jem bug,,,and even if you could it would be useless as you dont have the sci abilities to heal that much cap, 2 universal stations that are only LT and i use one for eng, and one for sci.
I switched to a full borg setup just messing around and my shield cap now is a hair under 7k
You have veered off into a different discussion. The conversation was on shield mods, and the apparently amazing shield mod of the JHAS compared to "cruisers" - which meant standard C-store T5 cruisers.
Which is a laughably silly thing to compare them to in the face of Fleet & Lockbox Cruisers.
Are you actually saying the JHAS is unkillable?
The Wells class has a base 15 turn on a Sci ship, 1.45 shield mod and the ability to completely forego any tac boff stations in favor of all out healing/Sci load out.
As usual most people either don't notice or care, it's all tunnel vision on the JHAS.
Irrelevant.
People are in this very thread complaining about a .99 vs. 1.0 difference in shield mods for the JHAS vs. the Fleet Patrol.
So the Wells, Galor and Recluse Shield mods are part of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.
Fleet Voquv? 1.1 Shield mod.
Recluse Carrier? 1.40 Shield mod.
The funny part? The Recluse carrier basically usurps the place of a healboat Cruiser.
I'll give you the chance to set me straight, are you telling me that you use a free RA level up ship exclusively in pvp?
That you do not now, and have never used a C-store ship or console?
That you have not purchased a Fleet ship?
Because if those things are not true, then you are effectively buying into the same system - just in some way you've managed to justify to yourself.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.