The Fleet Hohsus can take many good bugships out I have seen in kerrat one on one. It relies on ambushing them, but I have done it many times when they weren't fighting borg or other players and in full health, and it can get away without dying if the bug manages to RSP in time to stop your alpha.
Your post was to long, but I take it your thanking us bug pilots for helping you, forcing you to become a better player. You sir are welcome, and I will be happy to show you how to PvP. We can setup a training course for you this weekend. Please PM me for my TS info so I can help you with your build.
As annoying as it is that the JHAS outclasses my favorite Escort, and as silly as the ships stats are, it has never destroyed anyone with all resists up and a Tac Team for 400k damage.
ok im going to chime in on this since I own a bug ship and spent alot of money on the gear to make it what you guys call OP.
step 1. victory of life hardly hits (ive never seen it hit actually) and has been bugged for a while.
step 2(same set) this set even at mk 12 doesnt do much its weaker then borg, maco and HG sets, the dominion synergy is only off base polaron damage and not when consoles are added. personally I use 2 piece borg and fleet shield.
____________________________________________________________________________
Step 3
the bugs expensive compared to most ships true and its alot of power in good hands but I have killed in it and lost in it alike.
Step 4
pvp needs a overhaul even devs stated this one, alot of the main issues is also people dont shield tank well as they prematurally press buttons. this is a competition even if its a bad one. so learn to time.(not calling noobs just making points).
Step 4 yes jemmy does have best stats, but its also an espensive ship to build right, I mean I sank more then a grand into mine. also makes you think if your facing a good player with decent gear they should win all the time.
step 5 and thread.
this games about cost guys, they sell the jemmy to get lots of money, so either grind for stuff you want with ec missions and dil farming or pay. I get tired of being called a scrub when I fly a bug cause I put my own hard earned money into the game to get the accx3 weapons and all mk 12 everything. quit crying, and get better gear and learn to time heals and abilitys better, also dont cycle omega you guys waste it when you need to break tractors.
step 6. thank you for reading.
-Spells
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
The real issue about that ship (aside its superior tanking that makes no sense) is its turn rate.
Trying to point your cannons on a JHAS with a fleet Qin is like trying to do the same as a Vor'cha vs that same Qin. Vor'cha has 10 turnrate, Qin has 15, Bug has 20. It's on par with BoPs.
Fighting bugs as an escort is extremely frustrating because they badly outturn you. On top of that you can't hit and run cuz they also outspeed you unless they use slow engines.
Some people say that having only 1 sci console is a drawback but it really isn't. I cant see why you would prefer 800 more shield capacity over more firepower+even more turn rate (or passive mitigation).
It obsolete all other escorts by a large margin that's why it is OP.
(fix the bug ship by..)
the bug gets a set that works on it and benifits from its "victory is life" (engine, deflector, shield) that set can now be upgraded
the bug gets to take advanatage of one of the better 2 pcs unversal console sets (it and its jemy friends)
and it got its great synergy weapons with the phased polaron
Its time to do it, it would make the end game escorts a bit more balanced
I don't have a bug, but here's why I disagree:
- The bug set is not all that great. I'd much prefer to have a MACO or Omega set. But, currently, I don't even bother with any sets. The Fleet engines and shields are superior to the MACO and Omega sets. In fact, I'd prefer if a bug has the Jem'Hadar set...they are easier to kill.
- I would LOVE it if a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship were to equip the two ability consoles from the other Jem'Hadar ships. Why? Because that means they have to give up valuable console space (presumably passive consoles) for ability consoles. Think of it this way, a JHAS has 10 consoles. 5 are tactical, 4 are engineering, and 1 is science. Assuming you put 5 tactical consoles on, that leaves you 4 to play with. If you have Tachyokinetic Converter, Assimilated Module, and Zero-Point Energy Conduit (the latter is, I suppose, optional), that only gives you 2 consoles to play with. If the two Jem'Hadar consoles are used, now you have no consoles to work with. The ship is now much less tougher on the defensive side of things. Give up any of the three best offensive passive consoles, and now you're sacrificing offensive capability.
I also disagree that someone who gets an RA ship or Z-store/Fleet ship should get an equivalent ship to someone who played the lottery and got lucky or sucked a lot of money to get their ship.
ok im going to chime in on this since I own a bug ship and spent alot of money on the gear to make it what you guys call OP.
step 1. victory of life hardly hits (ive never seen it hit actually) and has been bugged for a while.
step 2(same set) this set even at mk 12 doesnt do much its weaker then borg, maco and HG sets, the dominion synergy is only off base polaron damage and not when consoles are added. personally I use 2 piece borg and fleet shield.
____________________________________________________________________________
Step 3
the bugs expensive compared to most ships true and its alot of power in good hands but I have killed in it and lost in it alike.
Step 4
pvp needs a overhaul even devs stated this one, alot of the main issues is also people dont shield tank well as they prematurally press buttons. this is a competition even if its a bad one. so learn to time.(not calling noobs just making points).
Step 4 yes jemmy does have best stats, but its also an espensive ship to build right, I mean I sank more then a grand into mine. also makes you think if your facing a good player with decent gear they should win all the time.
step 5 and thread.
this games about cost guys, they sell the jemmy to get lots of money, so either grind for stuff you want with ec missions and dil farming or pay. I get tired of being called a scrub when I fly a bug cause I put my own hard earned money into the game to get the accx3 weapons and all mk 12 everything. quit crying, and get better gear and learn to time heals and abilitys better, also dont cycle omega you guys waste it when you need to break tractors.
step 6. thank you for reading.
-Spells
I foolishly played mr niceguy as a fleetmate of mine wanted a bug so badly and spent money they really shouldnt have trying to get one and failed, after (many) packs i finally landed one and foolishly sold it for 1/3 the going price to this person only to have the jerk go and get that cloaked dread fed ship a week later and start using it, plus the person was on payment plan with me, they farmed kerrat all the time and payed me 10 mill every few days and now has RL issues and hasnt been on in over a month to pay me my other 50 mill.
So i then sank money into keys and sold packs too and just outright bought one for almost 300 mill ECs, then had to buy/sell more keys to work up full Mark XII stuff for it, and as we all know getting mark XII purple weapons with high ACC and purple tac consoles is very expensive, i didnt come near sinking a grand but i spent enough and i deserve to have a nice ship, i have a full time job and i budget a little money once a moneth to put in STO, and i do grind as well for my dilith and farm kerrat too, i also grind my TRIBBLE off for my fleet with marks and dilith, so yeah i expect to have one of the best ships in the game after all that :P
Side note, is anybody else stuck with a fleet that doesnt help much while your grinding for the projects? I have over 2 million fleet credits earned for my fleet and only 2 other members are higher than me, the rest of them are at 1 mill and much lower, ive seen peeps that have been with us for months and only have 1-200k total earned, its quite aggravating.
as we all know getting mark XII purple weapons with high ACC and purple tac consoles is very expensive, i didnt come near sinking a grand but i spent enough and i deserve to have a nice ship
"I have spent time/money/sacrifice therefore I deserve to be better". At some level, you believe that you have earned the right to easy victories because of your investments. This kind of thinking is the complete opposite of competitive gaming. In any official competition, all players are provided with equivalent equipment. Be it a Starcraft 1v1 or the Olympic games, it is a fundamental part of the rules that all competitors start with the same tools so that the only thing being challenged is their skill. If you can buy an edge in equipment, then the game ceases to be fair and the winner cannot in any reasonable fashion be considered more skilled or more worthy of winning.
Really what they need to do for this game is to divorce PVE equipment grinding from PVP competition. Every PVP player should have the same options available to them. But they won't do that because some of the biggest spenders in the game are people dropping hundreds of dollars to gain that 5% edge or unique ship/console and stomp on people who didn't spend as much.
actually all players have the choice to spend/grind so they are on equal terms, cryptic did provide the ability to grind. I know I have 5 people in our fleet and we do just fine with star bases.
and a jemmy by its self isnt what makes it that much better, its the expensive gear we chose to buy.
but if this game were even, then grind for the stuff you wish.
-Spells
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
"I have spent time/money/sacrifice therefore I deserve to be better". At some level, you believe that you have earned the right to easy victories because of your investments. This kind of thinking is the complete opposite of competitive gaming. In any official competition, all players are provided with equivalent equipment. Be it a Starcraft 1v1 or the Olympic games, it is a fundamental part of the rules that all competitors start with the same tools so that the only thing being challenged is their skill. If you can buy an edge in equipment, then the game ceases to be fair and the winner cannot in any reasonable fashion be considered more skilled or more worthy of winning.
Really what they need to do for this game is to divorce PVE equipment grinding from PVP competition. Every PVP player should have the same options available to them. But they won't do that because some of the biggest spenders in the game are people dropping hundreds of dollars to gain that 5% edge or unique ship/console and stomp on people who didn't spend as much.
Meh.
ah the "you spend money so you have an edge argument"
well unfortunately this is how real life works, you do what you have to , to get ahead,,,yes i have dropped money,,and ive also grinded my butt off.
Im also tired of people saying cause you have a bug ship your going to dominate,,,that is BS to the fullest. I have had my rear end handed to me in my bug as well ive dished out beatings too.
I just got beat 5-4 a couple days ago by someone in a cloaked fleet defiant, his piloting was a bit better than mine giving him an edge and he had good consoles on that ship so its not like i overpowered him by some large margin. How bout a scii captain in a vesta you dont think thats OP? I have a fleet mate that has one he is a sci captain,,,he stomps me one on one every single time, im lucky to get 1 kill on him.
This is no different than sports,,,people with money pay for the best equipment and trainers as well as work their butts off to get in the best shape and practice all day long to be the best at what they do,,,,i spent money and i grind as well so i expect to have something good to show for it.
actually all players have the choice to spend/grind so they are on equal terms, cryptic did provide the ability to grind. I know I have 5 people in our fleet and we do just fine with star bases.
and a jemmy by its self isnt what makes it that much better, its the expensive gear we chose to buy.
but if this game were even, then grind for the stuff you wish.
-Spells
exactly
nobody made warfare "fair" if your enemy outnumbers you, or has better stuff than you have to come up with an intelligent tactic to defeat them,,,you dont see soldiers on the battlefield going "hey man this isnt fair your country has more money and bought better weapons"
Anybody can grind and get a JHAS (yes i know it would take a LOT of grinding) anybody can grind and get good equipment/weapons
i have met people not only on this game but also a game called evony i used to play who never spent a dime but grinded their butts off and were difficult to beat.
Games are not real life, nor are they warfare. By your logic you'd be ok playing chess with someone who has a few extra queens on the board.
THAT ISN'T THE POINT OF PVP!
(You're thinking of WvW - Wallet vs Wallet)
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Again, you are trying to justify a pay to win scheme, because you waste money on lockbox ships that are at the least 50% superior to the highest end fleet ships. U are also wasting money on cstore TRIBBLE for consoles. This is the definition of pay to win, the bane of gaming. Of course this only becomes a problem in pvp,, and unfortunately this money is spent for pvp and the purchased ability to have a great advantage.
Just realize that any ego boost you get is in your own mind, becausr most people will give you (the pay to win scrub) no credit or respect when they recognise the ship in question and its pilot are made of cheese. I blame sto for this, its sad really, coulda had some decent pvp
actually all players have the choice to spend/grind so they are on equal terms, cryptic did provide the ability to grind. I know I have 5 people in our fleet and we do just fine with star bases.
and a jemmy by its self isnt what makes it that much better, its the expensive gear we chose to buy.
but if this game were even, then grind for the stuff you wish.
-Spells
while this is true on paper, in reality its far from it. while we all have the ability to grind di credits or zen for the bug and the gear it would take well over a year to do it realistically because of real life interference. plus what about the people with out the time or the money? should they get screwed over because they have long hours at a job or lack of money? gear helps but there isn't a massive game breaking difference between MKX and MKXII so i don't consider that a issue since there is no way to realistically balance that. but the bug makes a huge diff i took my pos setup from my diffiant when i got the bug and i was wiping people that beat my diffiant with ease and these were not average pvp players. given the significant differences between the bug and others something needs to be done and since escorts already dominate the game it should prob be Nerfed in someway.
JHAS is fine, i have it but don't fly it often because i find my fleet hoh'sus and temp destroyer much more versale and fun Only really good pilots can make JHAS ultimate weapon and we all know them by names and how to deal with. I have seen alot of unskilled players in bugship, poor things... Ship is powerfull yes but its all about pilot\captain in my opinion.
JHAS is fine, i have it but don't fly it often because i find my fleet hoh'sus and temp destroyer much more versale and fun Only really good pilots can make JHAS ultimate weapon and we all know them by names and how to deal with. I have seen alot of unskilled players in bugship, poor things... Ship is powerfull yes but its all about pilot\captain in my opinion.
true but even the best can be outmatched by a better ship when the ship is almoast a garenteed victory vs 80% of the player base something needs ajustment
while this is true on paper, in reality its far from it. while we all have the ability to grind di credits or zen for the bug and the gear it would take well over a year to do it realistically because of real life interference. plus what about the people with out the time or the money? should they get screwed over because they have long hours at a job or lack of money? gear helps but there isn't a massive game breaking difference between MKX and MKXII so i don't consider that a issue since there is no way to realistically balance that. but the bug makes a huge diff i took my pos setup from my diffiant when i got the bug and i was wiping people that beat my diffiant with ease and these were not average pvp players. given the significant differences between the bug and others something needs to be done and since escorts already dominate the game it should prob be Nerfed in someway.
Oh, so you don't want to put resources, work or time in, and you want the same gear that the guys that do? Wow. I mean WOW lol. Sure, JHAS currently and objectively is the best escort ship in the game. But so was the defiant before JHAS was introduced. Was defiant free? Was it the same as any other ship in the game? Of course not. It was better. It had more console slots and better turn rate. That's why ppl wanted it. And paid for it. Or put in work and time. Did ppl cry "oh cryptic you screwed us over with that defiant ship bwaaaa"? Or "you pay-to-win- sons of borg, you paid to win"? Or "Defiant is better than my <insert random T3 ship here> and it needs to be nerfed"? Probably. Dunno. Wasn't there.
So is JHAS currently the best escort ship in the game? Sure. Until the next best thing comes along. Is it OP? Does it win in all circumstances and scenarios? Nope, not by far. In fact, as some have already pointed out it's probably about 60% captain, 40% ship. A lacking one or the other means you'll try another time. Does it have a counter? Sure. Get a cruiser or a sci ship and tank it for a nice draw if you like. Or put together a winning build for some other ship. Or put in resources, work and time and buy it. You can do it by putting in any two of the aforementioned. So either do that, or cry us all a river.
Oh and btw, I'm strictly free-to-play. And yes, I like my JHAS. Except I like my BOP on my other toon even more - no BOPs for feds tho, so JHAS yes please.
Edit: And please don't think JHAS is invincible vs other escorts. it's not. I know how to take it out, even an advanced build that has superior fire power, tanking ability and turn rate. If you don't, that's not my problem - as they say, learn to play.
The Defiant-R could be obtained for free before free to play. While it was a great escort it wasn't the best and it certainly wasn't in the same class of ridiculousness currently possed by the bug ship. It was the most stylish though, until MVAM came along.
The Jem ship is better in nearly every way that counts (oh but only a little bit:(!) and natural progression is no reason for something to outclass everything else for any amount of time. All ship can be destroyed but there is no sense in a ship being so much stronger than others in it's class.
The game needs the variety that balance encourages. The bug hurts variety. Hurts balance.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Wait! What? Someone here spent $1000 on getting the Jem Hadar bug ship? Wow, that's a gambling problem. I've spent 20$ here and there, but $1000? Wow. Since the bug ship is probably the most powerful escort in the game, if you spent $1000 to get it, well I guess pay to win is true. :P
Again, you are trying to justify a pay to win scheme, because you waste money on lockbox ships that are at the least 50% superior to the highest end fleet ships. U are also wasting money on cstore TRIBBLE for consoles. This is the definition of pay to win, the bane of gaming. Of course this only becomes a problem in pvp,, and unfortunately this money is spent for pvp and the purchased ability to have a great advantage.
Just realize that any ego boost you get is in your own mind, becausr most people will give you (the pay to win scrub) no credit or respect when they recognise the ship in question and its pilot are made of cheese. I blame sto for this, its sad really, coulda had some decent pvp
The 1st thing you need to ask yourself is this.
While knowing this game is geared towards making money and people spend money on it to gain an advantage, why then do you continue to play it when you have such a problem with it? It may be just a game, but its just like life,,,everyone does what they have to do to win.
As far as ego boost,,,your creating a strawman argument now,,,i never once stated that this boost my ego or makes me feel better cause i "payed" for "some" of the stuff i have, (as ive grinded like others for some of the other stuff)
So hence,,,your justification is this,," you get to drop money that i dont have wah wah wah,,,your only stroking your own ego wah wah wha,,,,,,ect ect.....
Oh, so you don't want to put resources, work or time in, and you want the same gear that the guys that do? Wow. I mean WOW lol. Sure, JHAS currently and objectively is the best escort ship in the game. But so was the defiant before JHAS was introduced. Was defiant free? Was it the same as any other ship in the game? Of course not. It was better. It had more console slots and better turn rate. That's why ppl wanted it. And paid for it. Or put in work and time. Did ppl cry "oh cryptic you screwed us over with that defiant ship bwaaaa"? Or "you pay-to-win- sons of borg, you paid to win"? Or "Defiant is better than my <insert random T3 ship here> and it needs to be nerfed"? Probably. Dunno. Wasn't there.
So is JHAS currently the best escort ship in the game? Sure. Until the next best thing comes along. Is it OP? Does it win in all circumstances and scenarios? Nope, not by far. In fact, as some have already pointed out it's probably about 60% captain, 40% ship. A lacking one or the other means you'll try another time. Does it have a counter? Sure. Get a cruiser or a sci ship and tank it for a nice draw if you like. Or put together a winning build for some other ship. Or put in resources, work and time and buy it. You can do it by putting in any two of the aforementioned. So either do that, or cry us all a river.
Oh and btw, I'm strictly free-to-play. And yes, I like my JHAS. Except I like my BOP on my other toon even more - no BOPs for feds tho, so JHAS yes please.
Edit: And please don't think JHAS is invincible vs other escorts. it's not. I know how to take it out, even an advanced build that has superior fire power, tanking ability and turn rate. If you don't, that's not my problem - as they say, learn to play.
actually i DID put the time and the money to get the ship as you seem to have missed when you read my post. thats how i know that its OP. also i never said that i didnt have builds to kill bugs. i have one for each fed toon of mine. in matter of fact my best build is on my adv escort as its my fav ship, so actually read the posts you quote before using the lame "learn to play" bull thats used every time someone says somethings op
p.s. i also said that it was really hard and long to grind for the ship not impossible, and thouse that get the ship from exchange cant be free to play(not saying you since i dont know how you got it) since someone had to buy it first. also i belive i said that gear helps but doent make a massive diferance since the differant marks arent much better than the one below(like 5-10% if that)
"I have spent time/money/sacrifice therefore I deserve to be better". At some level, you believe that you have earned the right to easy victories because of your investments. This kind of thinking is the complete opposite of competitive gaming. In any official competition, all players are provided with equivalent equipment. Be it a Starcraft 1v1 or the Olympic games, it is a fundamental part of the rules that all competitors start with the same tools so that the only thing being challenged is their skill. If you can buy an edge in equipment, then the game ceases to be fair and the winner cannot in any reasonable fashion be considered more skilled or more worthy of winning.
Really what they need to do for this game is to divorce PVE equipment grinding from PVP competition. Every PVP player should have the same options available to them. But they won't do that because some of the biggest spenders in the game are people dropping hundreds of dollars to gain that 5% edge or unique ship/console and stomp on people who didn't spend as much.
Meh.
You obviously have never competed in the Olympics, therefore you have not earned the right to talk about it. You analogy is completely wrong, and no not everyone/everything is equal in the Olympics. As a past competitor I have first hand knowledge of this.
It also does NOT take a years worth of grinding, Broken got his last bug after 2 months of grinding, and he was not hitting it that hard. He bought another one at the current exchange prices.
sell stf drops get a capital of 50 mil then buy low and sell high on exchange ive bought all my best gear doing this repeating same steps.
tour,stf drops and foundry missions, also grind dil sell keys.
-Spells
Also farm kerrat,,,if done right you can drop some good stuff every now and then i have a fleetmate who can easily make 10 mill a day or more just messing with kerrat.
But STO PvP is NOT the Olympics, in fact it's not even significant to the game itself (if it were, don'cha think they'd have put some actual effort into development??)
for PvP to be a "Sport" the outcomes have to MATTER, and to be quite blunt, taking a motorcycle to a bicycle race (Jem ship in the public ques) isn't a display of skill, it's a display of crutch. Basically, were STO PvP treated by the Developers as a "Sport" it would have to be divided into classes, and the Jem'bug would wind up, not in the "Escorts" class or the "Tier 5 class", but in it's OWN class-separate from the Fleet ships, and largely separated from the other Lockbox ships as well-because it IS that much better a piece of hardware.
Which would mean, treated "Like the Olympics" you'd have a hard time finding/scheduling a match-because while it's gotten MORE common than it was, it's still rare enough that the bulk of matches PuGged don't have one, and when one IS there, it seriously unbalances things unless there's a matching one on the other side.
What you're not getting (and will likely never quite get) is that when a Bugship comes in and Pwns in an Arena or C&H, the players around him don't think "Wow, he's good", they think, "Wow, Pay to Win."
Sometimes with the appellation "Douche" if hte jem pilot does the whole 'trash-talk' routine or starts hanging around the spawn area.
Glory is not derived from easy victories, esp. if you're out to pump your reputation with living opposition. It's derived from taking near-equal to statistically inferior gear, and winning.
There is no "Misunderstanding competition" here-and your bugship doesn't earn you respect, because it's so easy even a moron can run it well.
i dont hang around spawn areas however someone did it to me the other day and i blew her up in 10 seconds,,,she didnt spawn camp me anymore The bug is not as OP as your making it out,,,you sound as if someone on the opposing team in the arena has a bug that means your team is doomed,,,that is TRIBBLE. As many on here have stated yes it helps to have a good ship,,,good consoles/weapons/ and ship build,,but ultimately its TEAMWORK that wins in the arena,,,i have a bug with almost all mark XII purple everything and that ship does no good when i get on a TRIBBLE team that wont communicate or call targets. Fleet patrol,,fleet defiant,,bug,,heavy escort carrier doesnt matter if your on a team that communicates and all plays their part you can do heavy damage in all those ships.
Comments
Your post was to long, but I take it your thanking us bug pilots for helping you, forcing you to become a better player. You sir are welcome, and I will be happy to show you how to PvP. We can setup a training course for you this weekend. Please PM me for my TS info so I can help you with your build.
step 1. victory of life hardly hits (ive never seen it hit actually) and has been bugged for a while.
step 2(same set) this set even at mk 12 doesnt do much its weaker then borg, maco and HG sets, the dominion synergy is only off base polaron damage and not when consoles are added. personally I use 2 piece borg and fleet shield.
____________________________________________________________________________
Step 3
the bugs expensive compared to most ships true and its alot of power in good hands but I have killed in it and lost in it alike.
Step 4
pvp needs a overhaul even devs stated this one, alot of the main issues is also people dont shield tank well as they prematurally press buttons. this is a competition even if its a bad one. so learn to time.(not calling noobs just making points).
Step 4 yes jemmy does have best stats, but its also an espensive ship to build right, I mean I sank more then a grand into mine. also makes you think if your facing a good player with decent gear they should win all the time.
step 5 and thread.
this games about cost guys, they sell the jemmy to get lots of money, so either grind for stuff you want with ec missions and dil farming or pay. I get tired of being called a scrub when I fly a bug cause I put my own hard earned money into the game to get the accx3 weapons and all mk 12 everything. quit crying, and get better gear and learn to time heals and abilitys better, also dont cycle omega you guys waste it when you need to break tractors.
step 6. thank you for reading.
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
Trying to point your cannons on a JHAS with a fleet Qin is like trying to do the same as a Vor'cha vs that same Qin. Vor'cha has 10 turnrate, Qin has 15, Bug has 20. It's on par with BoPs.
Fighting bugs as an escort is extremely frustrating because they badly outturn you. On top of that you can't hit and run cuz they also outspeed you unless they use slow engines.
Some people say that having only 1 sci console is a drawback but it really isn't. I cant see why you would prefer 800 more shield capacity over more firepower+even more turn rate (or passive mitigation).
It obsolete all other escorts by a large margin that's why it is OP.
- The bug set is not all that great. I'd much prefer to have a MACO or Omega set. But, currently, I don't even bother with any sets. The Fleet engines and shields are superior to the MACO and Omega sets. In fact, I'd prefer if a bug has the Jem'Hadar set...they are easier to kill.
- I would LOVE it if a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship were to equip the two ability consoles from the other Jem'Hadar ships. Why? Because that means they have to give up valuable console space (presumably passive consoles) for ability consoles. Think of it this way, a JHAS has 10 consoles. 5 are tactical, 4 are engineering, and 1 is science. Assuming you put 5 tactical consoles on, that leaves you 4 to play with. If you have Tachyokinetic Converter, Assimilated Module, and Zero-Point Energy Conduit (the latter is, I suppose, optional), that only gives you 2 consoles to play with. If the two Jem'Hadar consoles are used, now you have no consoles to work with. The ship is now much less tougher on the defensive side of things. Give up any of the three best offensive passive consoles, and now you're sacrificing offensive capability.
I also disagree that someone who gets an RA ship or Z-store/Fleet ship should get an equivalent ship to someone who played the lottery and got lucky or sucked a lot of money to get their ship.
I foolishly played mr niceguy as a fleetmate of mine wanted a bug so badly and spent money they really shouldnt have trying to get one and failed, after (many) packs i finally landed one and foolishly sold it for 1/3 the going price to this person only to have the jerk go and get that cloaked dread fed ship a week later and start using it, plus the person was on payment plan with me, they farmed kerrat all the time and payed me 10 mill every few days and now has RL issues and hasnt been on in over a month to pay me my other 50 mill.
So i then sank money into keys and sold packs too and just outright bought one for almost 300 mill ECs, then had to buy/sell more keys to work up full Mark XII stuff for it, and as we all know getting mark XII purple weapons with high ACC and purple tac consoles is very expensive, i didnt come near sinking a grand but i spent enough and i deserve to have a nice ship, i have a full time job and i budget a little money once a moneth to put in STO, and i do grind as well for my dilith and farm kerrat too, i also grind my TRIBBLE off for my fleet with marks and dilith, so yeah i expect to have one of the best ships in the game after all that :P
Side note, is anybody else stuck with a fleet that doesnt help much while your grinding for the projects? I have over 2 million fleet credits earned for my fleet and only 2 other members are higher than me, the rest of them are at 1 mill and much lower, ive seen peeps that have been with us for months and only have 1-200k total earned, its quite aggravating.
"I have spent time/money/sacrifice therefore I deserve to be better". At some level, you believe that you have earned the right to easy victories because of your investments. This kind of thinking is the complete opposite of competitive gaming. In any official competition, all players are provided with equivalent equipment. Be it a Starcraft 1v1 or the Olympic games, it is a fundamental part of the rules that all competitors start with the same tools so that the only thing being challenged is their skill. If you can buy an edge in equipment, then the game ceases to be fair and the winner cannot in any reasonable fashion be considered more skilled or more worthy of winning.
Really what they need to do for this game is to divorce PVE equipment grinding from PVP competition. Every PVP player should have the same options available to them. But they won't do that because some of the biggest spenders in the game are people dropping hundreds of dollars to gain that 5% edge or unique ship/console and stomp on people who didn't spend as much.
Meh.
and a jemmy by its self isnt what makes it that much better, its the expensive gear we chose to buy.
but if this game were even, then grind for the stuff you wish.
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
ah the "you spend money so you have an edge argument"
well unfortunately this is how real life works, you do what you have to , to get ahead,,,yes i have dropped money,,and ive also grinded my butt off.
Im also tired of people saying cause you have a bug ship your going to dominate,,,that is BS to the fullest. I have had my rear end handed to me in my bug as well ive dished out beatings too.
I just got beat 5-4 a couple days ago by someone in a cloaked fleet defiant, his piloting was a bit better than mine giving him an edge and he had good consoles on that ship so its not like i overpowered him by some large margin. How bout a scii captain in a vesta you dont think thats OP? I have a fleet mate that has one he is a sci captain,,,he stomps me one on one every single time, im lucky to get 1 kill on him.
This is no different than sports,,,people with money pay for the best equipment and trainers as well as work their butts off to get in the best shape and practice all day long to be the best at what they do,,,,i spent money and i grind as well so i expect to have something good to show for it.
exactly
nobody made warfare "fair" if your enemy outnumbers you, or has better stuff than you have to come up with an intelligent tactic to defeat them,,,you dont see soldiers on the battlefield going "hey man this isnt fair your country has more money and bought better weapons"
Anybody can grind and get a JHAS (yes i know it would take a LOT of grinding) anybody can grind and get good equipment/weapons
i have met people not only on this game but also a game called evony i used to play who never spent a dime but grinded their butts off and were difficult to beat.
THAT ISN'T THE POINT OF PVP!
(You're thinking of WvW - Wallet vs Wallet)
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Just realize that any ego boost you get is in your own mind, becausr most people will give you (the pay to win scrub) no credit or respect when they recognise the ship in question and its pilot are made of cheese. I blame sto for this, its sad really, coulda had some decent pvp
while this is true on paper, in reality its far from it. while we all have the ability to grind di credits or zen for the bug and the gear it would take well over a year to do it realistically because of real life interference. plus what about the people with out the time or the money? should they get screwed over because they have long hours at a job or lack of money? gear helps but there isn't a massive game breaking difference between MKX and MKXII so i don't consider that a issue since there is no way to realistically balance that. but the bug makes a huge diff i took my pos setup from my diffiant when i got the bug and i was wiping people that beat my diffiant with ease and these were not average pvp players. given the significant differences between the bug and others something needs to be done and since escorts already dominate the game it should prob be Nerfed in someway.
true but even the best can be outmatched by a better ship when the ship is almoast a garenteed victory vs 80% of the player base something needs ajustment
Oh, so you don't want to put resources, work or time in, and you want the same gear that the guys that do? Wow. I mean WOW lol. Sure, JHAS currently and objectively is the best escort ship in the game. But so was the defiant before JHAS was introduced. Was defiant free? Was it the same as any other ship in the game? Of course not. It was better. It had more console slots and better turn rate. That's why ppl wanted it. And paid for it. Or put in work and time. Did ppl cry "oh cryptic you screwed us over with that defiant ship bwaaaa"? Or "you pay-to-win- sons of borg, you paid to win"? Or "Defiant is better than my <insert random T3 ship here> and it needs to be nerfed"? Probably. Dunno. Wasn't there.
So is JHAS currently the best escort ship in the game? Sure. Until the next best thing comes along. Is it OP? Does it win in all circumstances and scenarios? Nope, not by far. In fact, as some have already pointed out it's probably about 60% captain, 40% ship. A lacking one or the other means you'll try another time. Does it have a counter? Sure. Get a cruiser or a sci ship and tank it for a nice draw if you like. Or put together a winning build for some other ship. Or put in resources, work and time and buy it. You can do it by putting in any two of the aforementioned. So either do that, or cry us all a river.
Oh and btw, I'm strictly free-to-play. And yes, I like my JHAS. Except I like my BOP on my other toon even more - no BOPs for feds tho, so JHAS yes please.
Edit: And please don't think JHAS is invincible vs other escorts. it's not. I know how to take it out, even an advanced build that has superior fire power, tanking ability and turn rate. If you don't, that's not my problem - as they say, learn to play.
The Jem ship is better in nearly every way that counts (oh but only a little bit:(!) and natural progression is no reason for something to outclass everything else for any amount of time. All ship can be destroyed but there is no sense in a ship being so much stronger than others in it's class.
The game needs the variety that balance encourages. The bug hurts variety. Hurts balance.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
The 1st thing you need to ask yourself is this.
While knowing this game is geared towards making money and people spend money on it to gain an advantage, why then do you continue to play it when you have such a problem with it? It may be just a game, but its just like life,,,everyone does what they have to do to win.
As far as ego boost,,,your creating a strawman argument now,,,i never once stated that this boost my ego or makes me feel better cause i "payed" for "some" of the stuff i have, (as ive grinded like others for some of the other stuff)
So hence,,,your justification is this,," you get to drop money that i dont have wah wah wah,,,your only stroking your own ego wah wah wha,,,,,,ect ect.....
actually i DID put the time and the money to get the ship as you seem to have missed when you read my post. thats how i know that its OP. also i never said that i didnt have builds to kill bugs. i have one for each fed toon of mine. in matter of fact my best build is on my adv escort as its my fav ship, so actually read the posts you quote before using the lame "learn to play" bull thats used every time someone says somethings op
p.s. i also said that it was really hard and long to grind for the ship not impossible, and thouse that get the ship from exchange cant be free to play(not saying you since i dont know how you got it) since someone had to buy it first. also i belive i said that gear helps but doent make a massive diferance since the differant marks arent much better than the one below(like 5-10% if that)
You obviously have never competed in the Olympics, therefore you have not earned the right to talk about it. You analogy is completely wrong, and no not everyone/everything is equal in the Olympics. As a past competitor I have first hand knowledge of this.
It also does NOT take a years worth of grinding, Broken got his last bug after 2 months of grinding, and he was not hitting it that hard. He bought another one at the current exchange prices.
tour,stf drops and foundry missions, also grind dil sell keys.
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
Also farm kerrat,,,if done right you can drop some good stuff every now and then i have a fleetmate who can easily make 10 mill a day or more just messing with kerrat.
i dont hang around spawn areas however someone did it to me the other day and i blew her up in 10 seconds,,,she didnt spawn camp me anymore
Though, once I got a Wells ship and sold it for 100mil EC. And, I bought several of the Recruitment Packs and resold them for about 4-6mil EC each.