No, you can go ahead and fly around all you want. Just don't expect to be given an unrealistic reward for doing so. Again, I'm not forcing or imposing anything on anyone. I'm supporting cryptic's decison to make the reward level appropriate.
It is too much. You encounter no enemies. You have to solve no problems. You fly in a series of straight lines.
Essentially, STF's have become so easy for experienced players that they turn into the same thing as the tour: routine ways you go about beating/achieving something. There are hardly any random elements in STF's, so in this sense, there isn't much of a difference between TOUR and STF's. Actually now that I can think about it, there is a difference. Griefers and afkers could afk grief an STF and still get the rewards when the rest of the team finished it for them. However with the tour, you still had to make the effort to haul butt through the tour which involved things such as: lining up your ship correctly in sector space, activating advanced slip stream at key moments, executing a properly timed curved trajectory through borg space, seamlessly dropping the mission while at the same time running towards the starfleet officer who offered the Tour. Arguably, Tour the Universe required more skill than even elite STF's.
Secondly, tour brought out the best in the community. I remember people giving each other RP and diplomacy to each other at Wolf 359, racing each other, and talking about STO in general while we waited for the Tour to start. There was a sense of camaraderie that would be the envy of the the victims of the griefer, troll culture we saw creep into pub STF's.
No, but go ahead azniadeet and keep belittling Tour the Universe as it was because obviously you think it's easier to cherry pick the negative aspects.
Says the guy who brags about how much EC he can make in the tour in his sig... yuck.
Bragging? never... and fyi I made FAR more EC in an hour selling doffs then i ever did with my smartay pants route.... the Tour is for noobs.... let them have a chance! Somebody think of the children!!
one of the things I loved was doing a power slide in my oddy in the 4 point middle of those two blocks - full power just to before the cross then full stop/reverse - slide and full power - made it fun.
I hope the devs continue to be Vigilant when people abuse exploits to gain ec , dil storage marks and all other things in ways other than intended .
Said "exploit" was working as "intended" for at least a year now... actually much longer mission transwarp's are here since launch....and they've well known about it and had no problem with it.... until now... so watch out all you working as intended stuff!! nerf spacebar!! nerf your face!!
Actually the Nerf was not silly at all . The tour was being exploited as well as the dil stuff .
I hope the devs continue to be Vigilant when people abuse exploits to gain ec , dil storage marks and all other things in ways other than intended .
I agree. Besides, you can do a tour, then switch chars and do another one.
I agree. Besides, you can do a tour, then switch chars and do another one.
No can do.... unless you've got 15-17 toons.... lined up waiting to go with gear and doffs.... 15-17 short sector laps being how many my route could do.
Cmon if you're gunna make an arguement against something at least keep up and be educated on the topic you're commenting upon....
thats like me saying hey ban skydiving its very dangerous! without actually knowing anything about skydiving.... (skydiving was first thing that came to my mind for an analogy...)
there were plenty of us who did the tour legit without using exploits.I did it and could only crank out 4 laps before time ran out,and i was satisfied with what i "EARNED".
Cryptic couldve nerfed the EXPLOITS without adding a CD to the entire tour.
But by making an entire seperate thread for the purpose of informing the community of your amusement at the opinions of others that don't align with yours, instead of just posting it in the relevant thread which caused your mirth at others? You are making a bigger deal out of it and putting the importance of your own opinion over others.
Not to mention basically goading people to respond to your opinion when you know a share of those folks won't agree with you. Plus your original post has no impetus for discussion other than to have people react to how you feel about them.
I don't find it amusing. I find it rather petty. But you've gotten what you wanted by having people reply to you.
I have to agree with Conundrumsa. People are crying over spilled milk. In the grand scheme of things it's a minor change, but people are going nuts over it anyways.
Actually the Nerf was not silly at all . The tour was being exploited as well as the dil stuff .
I hope the devs continue to be Vigilant when people abuse exploits to gain ec , dil storage marks and all other things in ways other than intended .
The tour wasn't hurting people; STF griefing is. Why don't we see devs do something about pub STF griefing?
Actually the Nerf was not silly at all . The tour was being exploited as well as the dil stuff .
I hope the devs continue to be Vigilant when people abuse exploits to gain ec , dil storage marks and all other things in ways other than intended .
To each its own...that was my opinion and I respect yours...my point is that this is a slippery slope....if you really think about it... the whole game is an exploit...you get something out of nothing....it's all in the eye of the beholder how much you get from that nothing that constitutes an "exploit". Can you honestly say that the party ball is an honest NERFED? that is real silly...I have to keep a straight face when I read that in the patch notes....real wise decision. Soon this game will be deserted of so many of us having enough taking all the TRIBBLE from these guys...if you ok with taking TRIBBLE...to each its own....
No can do.... unless you've got 15-17 toons.... lined up waiting to go with gear and doffs.... 15-17 short sector laps being how many my route could do.
I meant a complete tour.... like you're supposed to.... you know actually completing the mission you started? Ring any bells?
I have to agree with Conundrumsa. People are crying over spilled milk. In the grand scheme of things it's a minor change, but people are going nuts over it anyways.
what is minor for you...its HUGE for others...enough is enough of taking all the BS from these guys. It's been going on for over a year already...read the forums and understand before making a judgment on others.
So first you criticize exploiting and then you suggest another way of doing it? Your credibility just got flushed out of the air lock.
My suggesation ISN'T an exploit. The problem wasn't that people did tour more than once it was the people that did "short" tours to get more EC for less work.
I meant a complete tour.... like you're supposed to.... you know actually completing the mission you started? Ring any bells?They probably are thinking about it at least. They'll tell us when they're ready.
Can you see why people would be angry though? People exploiting the Tour wasn't a bad thing because Cryptic made money off of it, there was a sense of community around it, and nobody was getting griefed.
STF's have been griefed for who knows how long now and the griefing/afking continues with impunity. What do you think should be a higher priority for Cryptic-something that doesn't hurt players or something that does?
what is minor for you...its HUGE for others...enough is enough of taking all the BS from these guys. It's been going on for over a year already...read the forums and understand before making a judgment on others.
I was here to get disgruntled by the season four foundry outage. how about you?
The difference is that I remember that it's JUST A GAME...
Can you see why people would be angry though? People exploiting the Tour wasn't a bad thing because Cryptic made money off of it, there was a sense of community around it, and nobody was getting griefed.
STF's have been griefed for who knows how long now and the griefing/afking continues with impunity. What do you think should be a higher priority for Cryptic-something that doesn't hurt players or something that does?
there's an easy way to avoid STF greifers, do a private match.
there were plenty of us who did the tour legit without using exploits.I did it and could only crank out 4 laps before time ran out,and i was satisfied with what i "EARNED".
Cryptic couldve nerfed the EXPLOITS without adding a CD to the entire tour.
This I will agree with.... not that i see it as an exploit... but they definitely should not have nerfed the whole thing to oblivion... simple fix would be to only give reward after reaching quest giver having completed all required sectors (already listed in mission log as is).... boom... fixed... mission completes pick it up again for another full lap....no different then any other multi goal mission.
350k *4 for the hour... and you have to be GOOD to make the 4th lap.... theres the race and Tour Galaxy working as intended.... was a fun little mission/challenge and a few nice EC for lower level players... dont nerf it to death...!
My suggesation ISN'T an exploit. The problem wasn't that people did tour more than once it was the people that did "short" tours to get more EC for less work.
Your assuming everybody has 10-15 characters and the unlimited resources necessary to buy and equip the best warp cores to even make that option viable.
there's an easy way to avoid STF greifers, do a private match.
This argument is flawed at best, and it's been argued ad infinitum in just about every thread that has do with pub STF griefing. I'm going to say this for the 1000th time and pray to the prophets that I don't have to repeat myself: Not everybody has the time to search out fleets or to search out people for private matches. Not sure how much clearer I can be than that. Some people just have 1-2 hrs every night and/or they prefer to not deal with people and just be automatically matched up. A proper system must be set-up so that griefers don't abuse pub STF's to their benefit. But I guess the status quo is ok for you since it should just resolve itself, right?
This I will agree with.... not that i see it as an exploit... but they definitely should not have nerfed the whole thing to oblivion... simple fix would be to only give reward after reaching quest giver having completed all required sectors (already listed in mission log as is).... boom... fixed... mission completes pick it up again for another full lap....no different then any other multi goal mission.
350k *4 for the hour... and you have to be GOOD to make the 4th lap.... theres the race and Tour Galaxy working as intended.... was a fun little mission/challenge and a few nice EC for lower level players... dont nerf it to death...!
I like this idea. that was soemthing that surprised me about the way it was structured when released, and never really made sense.
Your assuming everybody has 10-15 characters and the unlimited resources necessary to buy and equip the best warp cores to even make that option viable.
I said "more than once" not "10-15 times". Tou don't need "the best" stuff to do tour. I've managed multiple laps with little more than a Borg engine in the Free Oddy. It works just fine.
Since the cool down is here to stay, I might as well reveal the exploit.
THE TOUR THE UNIVERSE EXPLOIT
1. Get the mission from the captain at ESD.
2. Run a route of your choice that maximizes the amount of ECs you get. (No, you don't need to do the entire run.)
3.(THE CRITICAL PART) Drop "Tour" once you have finished your route from your active mission list.
4. Transwarp back to ESD.
5. Repeat until "Tour" time is over.
Most people could make a least 1 million ECs during the "Tour" hour. The easiest route to do was going to Borg and Undine space and transpwarping back to ESD. Using this exploit, you could repeat that route every 5 - 7 minutes if you were using Borg engines.
I said "more than once" not "10-15 times". Tou don't need "the best" stuff to do tour. I've managed multiple laps with little more than a Borg engine in the Free Oddy. It works just fine.
Mulitple laps ayyyy??? how many is mulitple...? I think someone been using my route! gotcha!
tryna spank the rest of us and he's using it himself all along! you should have been in politics
This I will agree with.... not that i see it as an exploit... but they definitely should not have nerfed the whole thing to oblivion... simple fix would be to only give reward after reaching quest giver having completed all required sectors (already listed in mission log as is).... boom... fixed... mission completes pick it up again for another full lap....no different then any other multi goal mission.
350k *4 for the hour... and you have to be GOOD to make the 4th lap.... theres the race and Tour Galaxy working as intended.... was a fun little mission/challenge and a few nice EC for lower level players... dont nerf it to death...!
It was already nerfed to Gre'thor when they changed it so that slipstream turns off when you travel to a new sector block. This latest change is akin to beating a dead targ.
Honestly I don't know where to begin, I'm sat shaking my head in dismay at the fact of yet another stealth nerf has been sneaked in and you didn't even have the back bone to put it in the patch notes! Whats next are you going to claw back all the credits earned through what some would call an exploit. But I'm now at the point where I'm reconsidering my gold membership not to mention considering everything that's happen over the past several months I'm concerned where the game is heading and more to the point how are the players going to suffer as a result!
Since the cool down is here to stay, I might as well reveal the exploit.
Not much of a reveal, that knowledge has been around the forums forever. Which is one of the arguments against it being an actual exploit rather than a badly designed mission.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Since the cool down is here to stay, I might as well reveal the exploit.
THE TOUR THE UNIVERSE EXPLOIT
1. Get the mission from the captain at ESD.
2. Run a route of your choice that maximizes the amount of ECs you get. (No, you don't need to do the entire run.)
3.(THE CRITICAL PART) Drop "Tour" once you have finished your route from your active mission list.
4. Transwarp back to ESD.
5. Repeat until "Tour" time is over.
Most people could make a least 1 million ECs during the "Tour" hour. The easiest route to do was going to Borg and Undine space and transpwarping back to ESD. Using this exploit, you could repeat that route every 5 - 7 minutes if you were using Borg engines.
Now you know.
...and knowing is half the battle.
Dude the 3mil route has been public knowledge for a year.... its not a big secret.... and pffft... 1mil... that was the original full tour from the time it launched.... the working as intended version... your saying cryptic released the exploit with that one....
and fyi... borg space and undine... were not the easiest route... in fact they were quite unprofitable due to large transwarp costs.... the route was far more elegant... 750ec costs... for 3.2mil... bam!
2) Players making that much EC in one hour were gaining a huge advantage in EC over players that were not. When a player who doesn't run the tour visits the exchange, they notice that they cannot afford items on it while the player who does run it could afford items. This is because items were priced based on assuming that players were running the tour and gaining that much EC.
Huh? This is like saying, people working more overtime have a huge advantage over those that choose not to work overtime. Perhaps, but that's their choice. Right? So how is that unfair?
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
So first you criticize exploiting and then you suggest another way of doing it? Your credibility just got flushed out of the air lock.
multiple tooning in the game is fully legit - you can have up to 46 toons on an account and run them all for max dilithium per day if you want - you can run each through the foundry if you want - you can each do a tour if you want.
I think it only cost 625 zen for 2 more slots - of course you have to level them to 50:(
Whether or not it was labeled an 'exploit' really doesn't matter. The devs obviously felt that EC's needed another sink (or in this case, that the creation of new EC's needed to be tuned down a bit). Reducing the total EC in the economy is the only way to keep inflation in check.
_____________________
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ill say it yet again,the EASIEST FIX for the tour is to nerf the EXPLOITS....NOT add a CD and take away one more way for people to have fun in this game who dont use exploits.
Mulitple laps ayyyy??? how many is mulitple...? I think someone been using my route! gotcha!
tryna spank the rest of us and he's using it himself all along! you should have been in politics
Enh... I might as well explain my route. It's nothing awesome. But it doesn't require any expensive gear, except an engine that goes faster than warp 10.
Start at ESD.
head directly north through Alpha Centauri into Iota Pavonis
after clearing Iota Pavonis, head across AC to Psi Velorum
Fly the length of Psi Velorum to Pi Canis(NOTE: this was before Tau Dewa was added)
fly across PC to Eta Eridani
fly across EE to Orellius
do a quick loop in Orellius then head to Beta Ursae
head directly to Zeta Andromedae after entering BU
do a loop in ZA then head to Alpha Trianguli
Fly just far enough down the length of AT to visit all thre blocks then double back to BU
fly the rest of BU to Sirius
fly to the Borg TW hub
visit the Borg and Undine sectors
use the TW hub to return to Sirius then go to Regulus
Fly the length of regulus then TW to ESD.
If I hurried I could get more than one run out of that route, but I usually didn't bother. Sometimes I would make short pit stops at all the exploration clusters to check for the exploration chain missions. Using this route I could visit all of the exploration clusters AND complete the tour in the time alloted.
To each its own...that was my opinion and I respect yours...my point is that this is a slippery slope....if you really think about it... the whole game is an exploit...you get something out of nothing....it's all in the eye of the beholder how much you get from that nothing that constitutes an "exploit". Can you honestly say that the party ball is an honest NERFED? that is real silly...I have to keep a straight face when I read that in the patch notes....real wise decision. Soon this game will be deserted of so many of us having enough taking all the TRIBBLE from these guys...if you ok with taking TRIBBLE...to each its own....
If your talking about the party balls not a being allowed in combat yes that was also a good fix .
I guess we have a difference of opinion on what is TRIBBLE then as well.. up to this point the one and only gripe i have against sto/cryptic is the time barriers .... i could have had all 5th level reps a while ago if they were not there..
BTW having an opinion is one thing being wrong is another.
People who believed the earth was flat may have been a valid opinion at the time but it was still factually wrong .
Comments
Essentially, STF's have become so easy for experienced players that they turn into the same thing as the tour: routine ways you go about beating/achieving something. There are hardly any random elements in STF's, so in this sense, there isn't much of a difference between TOUR and STF's. Actually now that I can think about it, there is a difference. Griefers and afkers could afk grief an STF and still get the rewards when the rest of the team finished it for them. However with the tour, you still had to make the effort to haul butt through the tour which involved things such as: lining up your ship correctly in sector space, activating advanced slip stream at key moments, executing a properly timed curved trajectory through borg space, seamlessly dropping the mission while at the same time running towards the starfleet officer who offered the Tour. Arguably, Tour the Universe required more skill than even elite STF's.
Secondly, tour brought out the best in the community. I remember people giving each other RP and diplomacy to each other at Wolf 359, racing each other, and talking about STO in general while we waited for the Tour to start. There was a sense of camaraderie that would be the envy of the the victims of the griefer, troll culture we saw creep into pub STF's.
No, but go ahead azniadeet and keep belittling Tour the Universe as it was because obviously you think it's easier to cherry pick the negative aspects.
Bragging? never... and fyi I made FAR more EC in an hour selling doffs then i ever did with my smartay pants route.... the Tour is for noobs.... let them have a chance! Somebody think of the children!!
THIS!! YES! missed that.... awww!
Said "exploit" was working as "intended" for at least a year now... actually much longer mission transwarp's are here since launch....and they've well known about it and had no problem with it.... until now... so watch out all you working as intended stuff!! nerf spacebar!! nerf your face!!
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
My character Tsin'xing
No can do.... unless you've got 15-17 toons.... lined up waiting to go with gear and doffs.... 15-17 short sector laps being how many my route could do.
Cmon if you're gunna make an arguement against something at least keep up and be educated on the topic you're commenting upon....
thats like me saying hey ban skydiving its very dangerous! without actually knowing anything about skydiving.... (skydiving was first thing that came to my mind for an analogy...)
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
Cryptic couldve nerfed the EXPLOITS without adding a CD to the entire tour.
My character Tsin'xing
The tour wasn't hurting people; STF griefing is. Why don't we see devs do something about pub STF griefing?
So first you criticize exploiting and then you suggest another way of doing it? Your credibility just got flushed out of the air lock.
To each its own...that was my opinion and I respect yours...my point is that this is a slippery slope....if you really think about it... the whole game is an exploit...you get something out of nothing....it's all in the eye of the beholder how much you get from that nothing that constitutes an "exploit". Can you honestly say that the party ball is an honest NERFED? that is real silly...I have to keep a straight face when I read that in the patch notes....real wise decision. Soon this game will be deserted of so many of us having enough taking all the TRIBBLE from these guys...if you ok with taking TRIBBLE...to each its own....
My character Tsin'xing
what is minor for you...its HUGE for others...enough is enough of taking all the BS from these guys. It's been going on for over a year already...read the forums and understand before making a judgment on others.
My character Tsin'xing
Can you see why people would be angry though? People exploiting the Tour wasn't a bad thing because Cryptic made money off of it, there was a sense of community around it, and nobody was getting griefed.
STF's have been griefed for who knows how long now and the griefing/afking continues with impunity. What do you think should be a higher priority for Cryptic-something that doesn't hurt players or something that does?
The difference is that I remember that it's JUST A GAME...
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
This I will agree with.... not that i see it as an exploit... but they definitely should not have nerfed the whole thing to oblivion... simple fix would be to only give reward after reaching quest giver having completed all required sectors (already listed in mission log as is).... boom... fixed... mission completes pick it up again for another full lap....no different then any other multi goal mission.
350k *4 for the hour... and you have to be GOOD to make the 4th lap.... theres the race and Tour Galaxy working as intended.... was a fun little mission/challenge and a few nice EC for lower level players... dont nerf it to death...!
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
Your assuming everybody has 10-15 characters and the unlimited resources necessary to buy and equip the best warp cores to even make that option viable.
This argument is flawed at best, and it's been argued ad infinitum in just about every thread that has do with pub STF griefing. I'm going to say this for the 1000th time and pray to the prophets that I don't have to repeat myself: Not everybody has the time to search out fleets or to search out people for private matches. Not sure how much clearer I can be than that. Some people just have 1-2 hrs every night and/or they prefer to not deal with people and just be automatically matched up. A proper system must be set-up so that griefers don't abuse pub STF's to their benefit. But I guess the status quo is ok for you since it should just resolve itself, right?
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
THE TOUR THE UNIVERSE EXPLOIT
1. Get the mission from the captain at ESD.
2. Run a route of your choice that maximizes the amount of ECs you get. (No, you don't need to do the entire run.)
3. (THE CRITICAL PART) Drop "Tour" once you have finished your route from your active mission list.
4. Transwarp back to ESD.
5. Repeat until "Tour" time is over.
Most people could make a least 1 million ECs during the "Tour" hour. The easiest route to do was going to Borg and Undine space and transpwarping back to ESD. Using this exploit, you could repeat that route every 5 - 7 minutes if you were using Borg engines.
Now you know.
...and knowing is half the battle.
Mulitple laps ayyyy??? how many is mulitple...? I think someone been using my route! gotcha!
tryna spank the rest of us and he's using it himself all along! you should have been in politics
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
It was already nerfed to Gre'thor when they changed it so that slipstream turns off when you travel to a new sector block. This latest change is akin to beating a dead targ.
I know, right? What a word smith.
Not much of a reveal, that knowledge has been around the forums forever. Which is one of the arguments against it being an actual exploit rather than a badly designed mission.
Dude the 3mil route has been public knowledge for a year.... its not a big secret.... and pffft... 1mil... that was the original full tour from the time it launched.... the working as intended version... your saying cryptic released the exploit with that one....
and fyi... borg space and undine... were not the easiest route... in fact they were quite unprofitable due to large transwarp costs.... the route was far more elegant... 750ec costs... for 3.2mil... bam!
anyways! bring back full laps! save the tour!!
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
Huh? This is like saying, people working more overtime have a huge advantage over those that choose not to work overtime. Perhaps, but that's their choice. Right? So how is that unfair?
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
multiple tooning in the game is fully legit - you can have up to 46 toons on an account and run them all for max dilithium per day if you want - you can run each through the foundry if you want - you can each do a tour if you want.
I think it only cost 625 zen for 2 more slots - of course you have to level them to 50:(
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Start at ESD.
head directly north through Alpha Centauri into Iota Pavonis
after clearing Iota Pavonis, head across AC to Psi Velorum
Fly the length of Psi Velorum to Pi Canis(NOTE: this was before Tau Dewa was added)
fly across PC to Eta Eridani
fly across EE to Orellius
do a quick loop in Orellius then head to Beta Ursae
head directly to Zeta Andromedae after entering BU
do a loop in ZA then head to Alpha Trianguli
Fly just far enough down the length of AT to visit all thre blocks then double back to BU
fly the rest of BU to Sirius
fly to the Borg TW hub
visit the Borg and Undine sectors
use the TW hub to return to Sirius then go to Regulus
Fly the length of regulus then TW to ESD.
If I hurried I could get more than one run out of that route, but I usually didn't bother. Sometimes I would make short pit stops at all the exploration clusters to check for the exploration chain missions. Using this route I could visit all of the exploration clusters AND complete the tour in the time alloted.
My character Tsin'xing
If your talking about the party balls not a being allowed in combat yes that was also a good fix .
I guess we have a difference of opinion on what is TRIBBLE then as well.. up to this point the one and only gripe i have against sto/cryptic is the time barriers .... i could have had all 5th level reps a while ago if they were not there..
BTW having an opinion is one thing being wrong is another.
People who believed the earth was flat may have been a valid opinion at the time but it was still factually wrong .
Not liking ice cream is an example of an opinion