This reminds me of my job...I work with different groups and so often hear:
"We've always done it this way."
It's really tough for me not to reply:
"Congratulations, you've always been wrong."
OMG LOL +Alot
you should try it some time !!!
I write a training website and blog and have actually done that at times . Plus I am also in person trainer and deal with the above comment people all the time
That's annoying because I did hope they don't come back on this one. Making one tour is fine. Turning the Tour into an EC milk cow is wrong. I totally share the OP point of view.
You know, this reminds me of that episode in Green Acres when this shop clerk has the brilliant idea of giving out drinks for free, but charging to use the opener. Guess what, some smart dude comes by and has his own bottle opener, hangs around drinking soda and ginger ale all day, offering his opener to any who pass by. Naturally, the shopkeep is pissed outta his mind.
Now, you can either side with the shopkeep, and blame the smart dude for exploiting the situation, or you can think the shopkeep was pretty stupid to begin with. Not for having such an obviously flawed plan, but for actually expecting people to be sheep and not be creative with how they handle the circumstances they're presented.
Somehow, there's this idea that a player who thinks outside the box and finds a way to draw advantage from the way a system is set up to be a bad player. It's actually the first time i hear about using the mail as storage (i'm new; sue me), and admittedly i don't know the circumstances, but at a glance that seems like a pretty good idea to me. But of course, creative thinking is a bad thing from the moment if frees the players from a constraint that's feeding the execs more money.
Honestly, i love any so-called exploit like the Tour laps, simply because of how ingeniously they work within the system, and make you feel like you can actually be creative with the tools you're given and benefit yourself and others from it.
That's annoying because I did hope they don't come back on this one. Making one tour is fine. Turning the Tour into an EC milk cow is wrong. I totally share the OP point of view.
I still think they should rip sector space out, salvage the art for an astrometrics lab minigame/mission, and plant people on their ship interior when they leave a system.
With a focus on social features in ship interiors and more adventure zones.
I believe that the exploits was people only going to 2 or 3 sector blocks, dropping and then going again to the same 2 or 3. That was definitely a problem that needed addressing.
If the exploit was people running it multiple times, even fully, then the event was poorly designed and the working as intended version would be almost useless.
As is, with the 4 hour cooldown, i don't see the point of running it even once any more.
In either case, Cryptic let it go on for too long, just like they did with the Foundry clickies.
I hardly run the event myself, so I don't share as much sympathy with those that are crying over a lost source of easy energy credits. Plenty of other ways to make EC; Doffing, STF's, Foundry, and you know, just generally playing the damn game. :rolleyes:
I do however, sympathize with those that are tired of sudden and unexplained changes, communication problems, and patch note foul-ups resulting in "stealth nerfs."
It's standard SOP in MMOs, I've been playing them for almost 20 years and it's always done this way. You never post when you are going to fix an exploit, because all that does is tell everyone to do a final exploit rush.
I have no love for Cryptic, hell, I haven't even played in over a months...but in this case they did nothing that isn't SOP for MMOs.
No matter how the Tour the Universe exploiters try to dress it up...they were exploiting the system, they were not running the event as was intended.
I agree with ya, and idk if its wrong or not, frankly i dont care but I always find amusement when others are sad , mad, and crying rivers of tears, especially over something in a video game, even in real life lol.
Miserly loves company i suppose, but thats just how im wired. I love suffering.
Additional speed exploits like Diplomatic Immunity and Raiding party added to the event, both giving 25% more speed as well.
Sorry, but how is that any different than training a bridge officer in an ability then using it, or using a shield battery to, you know, bring shields back online and buff them. come on please, how does using something for its given purpose, in part or whole, have any bearing on this discussion?
Look - players are clearly feeling squeezed. Legit ways of getting EC and dil have been getting nerfed constantly. Fix the exploit with the numerous suggestions voiced in this thread and everyone will be content.
This has got to stop. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip and over-monetizing ANYTHING is a poor long-term strategy.
I have to admit i havent used it in a looooong time. I made my millions with doffs before they changed the upgrinder so havent needed the tour since...
still it had a good run, and I can appreciate how lower level layers relied on it for EC, as did I a long time ago...
I worked on creating the route more as a challenge once I heard of the idea of 4 sector laps and to beat the amounts made by others working on a perfect route.
guess mine was too perfect.... or people where making even more then the 3.2mil with the introduction of better sector space stats on warp cores and vestas etc...
But to call it an exploit? i think is a bit harsh... 3.2mil a day or 21mil a week is also a bit of an over exaggeration.... unless you lived your life based on the tour people we're not making 21mil a week.. with a 15 hour CD it left days where simply the tour was on to early or late for people to complete... so at best you might have got 3/4 races a week... for a more reasonable 10-12mil a week...
considering we all know guys making that and more PER DAY sitting on the exchange flipping stuff.... I say give guys back their ec for the race....
then again i dont have crytpics metrics so may be my route had a larger effect game wide then i can comprehend...
Can i ask though since i havent played it myself... can people still do the full tour (all sectors) past one lap without CD ?otherwise 350k for a tour before being slapped with a CD is pretty crappy... even it you can still make 3/4 full laps (350k each)the tour is worth while and a much needed avenue to EC to lower level players.... i remember relying it on myself in the early days to buy mk xii cannons.
Milking a noob gift mission is fine, but using exploits (multiple) to milk it is not fine. If they cant fix the latter without breaking the former, I'm not really gonna cry about it.
once I figured better ways to make EC I gave up tour as well - after the first lap it's just mind numbingly boring - or maybe the 2nd - to see if you beat your 1st time - but after 4 times for the normal or 15 time for the "exploit" I am surprized people did not jump out their windows!
I'm completely ignoring the first part of your post because I don't appreciate people speaking down to me like I'm a child.
Yes, you are welcome to your own opinion, but forcing it on others is not a very nice way to coexist. Saying that something is boring or rubbish and that people shouldn't do it, is not your place.
No, you can go ahead and fly around all you want. Just don't expect to be given an unrealistic reward for doing so. Again, I'm not forcing or imposing anything on anyone. I'm supporting cryptic's decison to make the reward level appropriate.
Also, I don't fly any tier 1 ships thanks. In fact, I spent a lot of money to get the Vesta for the tour so I could make use of it's superior QSD. Plus, it was not "WAY TOO MUCH", 1.4 Mil for four complete runs is not too much. I don't care what people got from exploiting it, because I'm talking about the legitimate runs, not the exploits.
It is too much. You encounter no enemies. You have to solve no problems. You fly in a series of straight lines.
In my judgment, the reward and replay level is now appropriate. Luckily, Cryptic's judgment is in line with mine. You're entitled to yours too, but don't get yourself upset when people- especially Cryptic- disagree.
This mission has been around for years now, the fact it has been changed now is why people are p*ssed off.
Yes, people are all upset that for years, they've been able to fly a mission that requires no skill, yet gives big rewards for little to no effort. Yea, those people who've reaped those benefits for all those years, they should really be mad that they've been allowed to acquire that EC for all that time.
How about instead of wasting their time p*ssing people off to change this, they actually fix some of the real bugs that affect game play, such as the hard runs on Defera, or the clipping of 90% of Romulan uniforms, or the binding boxes for D'Deridex class vessels being too large so they can't move around other ships in sector space.
Yeah, they should work out those bugs. But those are different issues. They should also take further steps to reign in the inflation problem with this game's economy.
Generally don't like to complain, but this time I feel like I must at least voice my opinion. I am totally against the nerfing of the Tour. I enjoyed the challenge of trying to devise ways to complete as many as possible. I had worked my way up to about 2.5 tours and somewhere around 1 mil EC. I know others had performed much better than that, but the fun of it was trying to figure it out for myself. The EC was certainly nice, but I'd rather see that part of it nerfed instead of the whole mission itself. Just my two slips of GPL....
the distance even to run to the dude to pick up the mission is huge! plus had very little in the way of mission transwarp to get you around the place....
fed side was easy, actually figured it all out in about an hour when i sat down. hardest part was cost per transwarp vs distance to sector (time taken to travel) and in the end found the nice combo you all came to love....
ill be sad to see it nerfed since it meant so much to alot of people and is argueably one of my brighter moments in game lol =D
but hey such is life....again though i would say... dont nerf the entire Tour, at least leave it that guys can still do the full tour 3/4 full laps at 350k each or even buff it to an even 500k per lap.... cmon have a heart! =D
full laps tours were quite fun! the big turns in iona and zeta, some didnt like it but i did...
the distance even to run to the dude to pick up the mission is huge! plus had very little in the way of mission transwarp to get you around the place....
<snip>
hehe, no wonder KDF side was almost always abandoned come race time. I've never run it from the Fed side, so for 2 year been doing it all wrong. I think 5 complete loops was my personal best.
im surprised no one actually thought of my route before i did... like im only in the game what 18months... so it was running well before my time... and i know NOBODY was running my route before me as i was always alone on it while guys where jumping this way and that.
even the guys that were working 2,5mil routes where taken back when i went public with it (was a handy advertisment for PESTF at the time).
never saw it as an exploit... just a clever use of transwarps... exploits is like hax and stuff and messing with code and breaking stuff.... my lil ole route was harmless cmon.... =D
Why be sneaky about the patch notes?...I hope DEVs realize how silly this nerf is. This is a slippery slope started with DIL nerf from Foundry, Fleet marks, and now ECs from the tour. Well you managed to nerf even the party dance ball at Risa....when would this stopped? This is so silly and just not justified. I add my voice to the hundreds here and just to let you know that soon you will be running out of players with this nerfing kind of culture....serves nobody but only your self interests of making people grind until you squeeze every single drop of money from your clientele....this policy SUCKS and sorry but you SIR are egotistical and self serving group of individuals who advance only your purpose and make all the rest of us not only labor but squeeze every penny out of our pockets. I would call this a virtual dictatorship and adding more to the ranks of those who possibly will quit this game if voices are not heard...we do have a final choice....enough is enough...might as well NERF the whole game and SHUT DOWN STO. :mad:
full laps tours were quite fun! the big turns in iona and zeta, some didnt like it but i did...
one of the things I loved was doing a power slide in my oddy in the 4 point middle of those two blocks - full power just to before the cross then full stop/reverse - slide and full power - made it fun.
No matter how the Tour the Universe exploiters try to dress it up...they were exploiting the system, they were not running the event as was intended.
Not really.
But by making an entire seperate thread for the purpose of informing the community of your amusement at the opinions of others that don't align with yours, instead of just posting it in the relevant thread which caused your mirth at others? You are making a bigger deal out of it and putting the importance of your own opinion over others.
Not to mention basically goading people to respond to your opinion when you know a share of those folks won't agree with you. Plus your original post has no impetus for discussion other than to have people react to how you feel about them.
I don't find it amusing. I find it rather petty. But you've gotten what you wanted by having people reply to you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010 "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
Why be sneaky about the patch notes?...I hope DEVs realize how silly this nerf is. This is a slippery slope started with DIL nerf from Foundry, Fleet marks, and now ECs from the tour. Well you managed to nerf even the party dance ball at Risa....when would this stopped? This is so silly and just not justified. I add my voice to the hundreds here and just to let you know that soon you will be running out of players with this nerfing kind of culture....serves nobody but only your self interests of making people grind until you squeeze every single drop of money from your clientele....this policy SUCKS and sorry but you SIR are egotistical and self serving group of individuals who advance only your purpose and make all the rest of us not only labor but squeeze every penny out of our pockets. I would call this a virtual dictatorship and adding more to the ranks of those who possibly will quit this game if voices are not heard...we do have a final choice....enough is enough...might as well NERF the whole game and SHUT DOWN STO. :mad:
Actually the Nerf was not silly at all . The tour was being exploited as well as the dil stuff .
I hope the devs continue to be Vigilant when people abuse exploits to gain ec , dil storage marks and all other things in ways other than intended .
Comments
OMG LOL +Alot
you should try it some time !!!
I write a training website and blog and have actually done that at times . Plus I am also in person trainer and deal with the above comment people all the time
Skanvak Drakken
http://lamaisondesdrakkens.clan-box.com/index.php
remove the tour the galaxy kompletely out of STO, than we need no more discussion about them.....
MB: MSI MPG X570 GP 2.0
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Mem: Samsung DDR4 -2132 8GB (x2)
Graph: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
System: Micrsft. Windows 10 Pro v.21H2
Now, you can either side with the shopkeep, and blame the smart dude for exploiting the situation, or you can think the shopkeep was pretty stupid to begin with. Not for having such an obviously flawed plan, but for actually expecting people to be sheep and not be creative with how they handle the circumstances they're presented.
Somehow, there's this idea that a player who thinks outside the box and finds a way to draw advantage from the way a system is set up to be a bad player. It's actually the first time i hear about using the mail as storage (i'm new; sue me), and admittedly i don't know the circumstances, but at a glance that seems like a pretty good idea to me. But of course, creative thinking is a bad thing from the moment if frees the players from a constraint that's feeding the execs more money.
Honestly, i love any so-called exploit like the Tour laps, simply because of how ingeniously they work within the system, and make you feel like you can actually be creative with the tools you're given and benefit yourself and others from it.
Or you can be a sheep, i don't know.
totally agree +1
3 million an hour ? That's not over the top is it
If you can't fix it, ruin it - right. Sort of like the carriers yesterday
With a focus on social features in ship interiors and more adventure zones.
In either case, Cryptic let it go on for too long, just like they did with the Foundry clickies.
I hardly run the event myself, so I don't share as much sympathy with those that are crying over a lost source of easy energy credits. Plenty of other ways to make EC; Doffing, STF's, Foundry, and you know, just generally playing the damn game. :rolleyes:
I do however, sympathize with those that are tired of sudden and unexplained changes, communication problems, and patch note foul-ups resulting in "stealth nerfs."
I have no love for Cryptic, hell, I haven't even played in over a months...but in this case they did nothing that isn't SOP for MMOs.
I agree with ya, and idk if its wrong or not, frankly i dont care but I always find amusement when others are sad , mad, and crying rivers of tears, especially over something in a video game, even in real life lol.
Miserly loves company i suppose, but thats just how im wired. I love suffering.
Sorry, but how is that any different than training a bridge officer in an ability then using it, or using a shield battery to, you know, bring shields back online and buff them. come on please, how does using something for its given purpose, in part or whole, have any bearing on this discussion?
Look - players are clearly feeling squeezed. Legit ways of getting EC and dil have been getting nerfed constantly. Fix the exploit with the numerous suggestions voiced in this thread and everyone will be content.
This has got to stop. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip and over-monetizing ANYTHING is a poor long-term strategy.
Did that many people use my route?
I have to admit i havent used it in a looooong time. I made my millions with doffs before they changed the upgrinder so havent needed the tour since...
still it had a good run, and I can appreciate how lower level layers relied on it for EC, as did I a long time ago...
I worked on creating the route more as a challenge once I heard of the idea of 4 sector laps and to beat the amounts made by others working on a perfect route.
guess mine was too perfect.... or people where making even more then the 3.2mil with the introduction of better sector space stats on warp cores and vestas etc...
But to call it an exploit? i think is a bit harsh... 3.2mil a day or 21mil a week is also a bit of an over exaggeration.... unless you lived your life based on the tour people we're not making 21mil a week.. with a 15 hour CD it left days where simply the tour was on to early or late for people to complete... so at best you might have got 3/4 races a week... for a more reasonable 10-12mil a week...
considering we all know guys making that and more PER DAY sitting on the exchange flipping stuff.... I say give guys back their ec for the race....
then again i dont have crytpics metrics so may be my route had a larger effect game wide then i can comprehend...
Can i ask though since i havent played it myself... can people still do the full tour (all sectors) past one lap without CD ?otherwise 350k for a tour before being slapped with a CD is pretty crappy... even it you can still make 3/4 full laps (350k each)the tour is worth while and a much needed avenue to EC to lower level players.... i remember relying it on myself in the early days to buy mk xii cannons.
Damn just relised i gotta redo my sig.....
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
http://bit.ly/3MilECRace
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
No, you can go ahead and fly around all you want. Just don't expect to be given an unrealistic reward for doing so. Again, I'm not forcing or imposing anything on anyone. I'm supporting cryptic's decison to make the reward level appropriate.
It is too much. You encounter no enemies. You have to solve no problems. You fly in a series of straight lines.
In my judgment, the reward and replay level is now appropriate. Luckily, Cryptic's judgment is in line with mine. You're entitled to yours too, but don't get yourself upset when people- especially Cryptic- disagree.
Yes, people are all upset that for years, they've been able to fly a mission that requires no skill, yet gives big rewards for little to no effort. Yea, those people who've reaped those benefits for all those years, they should really be mad that they've been allowed to acquire that EC for all that time.
Yeah, they should work out those bugs. But those are different issues. They should also take further steps to reign in the inflation problem with this game's economy.
the distance even to run to the dude to pick up the mission is huge! plus had very little in the way of mission transwarp to get you around the place....
fed side was easy, actually figured it all out in about an hour when i sat down. hardest part was cost per transwarp vs distance to sector (time taken to travel) and in the end found the nice combo you all came to love....
ill be sad to see it nerfed since it meant so much to alot of people and is argueably one of my brighter moments in game lol =D
but hey such is life....again though i would say... dont nerf the entire Tour, at least leave it that guys can still do the full tour 3/4 full laps at 350k each or even buff it to an even 500k per lap.... cmon have a heart! =D
full laps tours were quite fun! the big turns in iona and zeta, some didnt like it but i did...
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
hehe, no wonder KDF side was almost always abandoned come race time. I've never run it from the Fed side, so for 2 year been doing it all wrong. I think 5 complete loops was my personal best.
I coulda been rich by now.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
even the guys that were working 2,5mil routes where taken back when i went public with it (was a handy advertisment for PESTF at the time).
never saw it as an exploit... just a clever use of transwarps... exploits is like hax and stuff and messing with code and breaking stuff.... my lil ole route was harmless cmon.... =D
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
Fine... nerf the exchange in that case!
this far! no further!
www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
/channel_join PublicEliteSTF
PublicEliteSTF Channel Info: bit.ly/PublicEliteSTFV2
WE WANT A KDF BOP 3 PACK!!
Says the guy who brags about how much EC he can make in the tour in his sig... yuck.
one of the things I loved was doing a power slide in my oddy in the 4 point middle of those two blocks - full power just to before the cross then full stop/reverse - slide and full power - made it fun.
Not really.
But by making an entire seperate thread for the purpose of informing the community of your amusement at the opinions of others that don't align with yours, instead of just posting it in the relevant thread which caused your mirth at others? You are making a bigger deal out of it and putting the importance of your own opinion over others.
Not to mention basically goading people to respond to your opinion when you know a share of those folks won't agree with you. Plus your original post has no impetus for discussion other than to have people react to how you feel about them.
I don't find it amusing. I find it rather petty. But you've gotten what you wanted by having people reply to you.
The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
Actually the Nerf was not silly at all . The tour was being exploited as well as the dil stuff .
I hope the devs continue to be Vigilant when people abuse exploits to gain ec , dil storage marks and all other things in ways other than intended .