or they were trying to convey that the nacelle, which is a giant subspace field generator, was reconfiguring its subspace field to allow for maximum acceleration from the IMPULSE ENGINES
that the nacelle was 'spewing light' means absolutely nothing, because guess what? ALL starfleet ship nacelles spew light when the ship goes to warp, and in the case of the TMP era, they spew it in a trail-like exhaust pattern
Regardless of what it's actually doing, I think it's pretty obvious the CGI artists and/or JJ Abrams had no idea what the difference was between the nacelles and the impulse engines, and intended for that to be an exhaust effect. I just chalk it up to an art error, just like the art errors that make the size of the JJ-prise ambiguous.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Wait, guys, so which Star Trek is the one real true Star Trek?
Any licensed work that appears on film or as part of a TV series and takes place in the Prime, Kelvin, or Mirror universes. Or, for a shorter answer, all of it.
Regardless of what it's actually doing, I think it's pretty obvious the CGI artists and/or JJ Abrams had no idea what the difference was between the nacelles and the impulse engines, and intended for that to be an exhaust effect. I just chalk it up to an art error, just like the art errors that make the size of the JJ-prise ambiguous.
This is the part where I was talking about "just going back in time". Someone didn't do their homework, thus made it not going back in time. When you just go back in time only, you use stuff from the past that is already known canon. They done this before, but this time they didn't. So yes either they goofed up cause they didn't care about it, or they wanted a new Universe so they can be free in their story telling for this current series.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Franklin isn't part of the first 2 movies, until it comes out in theater. It can't be part of this. Unless they tell how hold she really is. So that part of the debate is nothing there.
You state claims, but you won't offer any evidence to back it up. So where is your proof. I showed mine going by the movies. So your refusing the back it up.
Another on the forum added something else. Reviewing that clip showed another big factor to back mine up. The Kelvin had the same type Engineering as the KT Enterprise. Where NX shows they had a better fitting engineering to match the ship. Not some vast factory where they brew. Even the TOS Connie's engineering didn't look like a brewery. Which of course that is where they filmed the shots, in a real brewery. Cause they was too cheap to create a more functional engineering like the rest of the movies and shows. This is also not part of Prime Universe, thus making it a different one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
...or they wanted a new Universe so they can be free in their story telling for this current series.
And they made one. Starting with the Narada's attack on the Kelvin. That is onscreen canon.
Or are you expecting internal consistency in Trek? Because FC (my favorite Prime Universe movie) had that little spot of bother where Worf mentioned "Deck 26," then Picard went and said the Ent-E had 24 decks.
The Kelvin's weird warp flare thing is just an art/research error. Chill out people.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
JJ Trek is most certainly Star Trek, the most half-baked, phoned-in peice of Star Trek, as of yet but Star Trek none the less.
^^^
Not when you consider TRIBBLE like Star Trek: Voyager or Star Trek V: The Final Frontier or Star trek: Nemesis it's not.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
TOS - Grew up watching it 24/7, Doomsday Machine and Gary Mitchell episodes rocked
STNG - Pretty cool, Ltc Data, Lore, Hugh, Borg and Q all rocked
DS9 - Freaking hated it, someone slap Sisko !!!
Voyager - 7 of 9 and Borg galore
ST: Enterprise - Pretty meh ... less the 1 Borg episode in Alaska
ST 2009 & Into Darkness - Loved them both, lens flares and all
TOS - Grew up watching it 24/7, Doomsday Machine and Gary Mitchell episodes rocked
STNG - Pretty cool, Ltc Data, Lore, Hugh, Borg and Q all rocked
DS9 - Freaking hated it, someone slap Sisko !!!
Voyager - 7 of 9 and Borg galore
ST: Enterprise - Pretty meh ... less the 1 Borg episode in Alaska
ST 2009 & Into Darkness - Loved them both, lens flares and all
Especially the lens flares.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
...or they wanted a new Universe so they can be free in their story telling for this current series.
And they made one. Starting with the Narada's attack on the Kelvin. That is onscreen canon.
Or are you expecting internal consistency in Trek? Because FC (my favorite Prime Universe movie) had that little spot of bother where Worf mentioned "Deck 26," then Picard went and said the Ent-E had 24 decks.
The Kelvin's weird warp flare thing is just an art/research error. Chill out people.
Warp pylons in the JJverse seem to be pretty heavily influenced by jet engines what with the spinny thingy on the front and the turbine-like whine they give off when they power up for warp. Heck, they even went a step further and added glittery contrails when going to warp in STID. With that in mind I think it seems in line with the design logic for the Kelvin verse for the Warp pylons to have an afterburner sort of thing built into it. It just seems consistent with the design aesthetic they were angling for. Considering how front and center it is in that scene and the detail they put into animating it, I think it's a far cry simple errors like FX artists having phasers fire from parts of the ship that aren't supposed to have emitters or writers forgetting to check how many decks a given ship has when writing dialogue for a scene. It seems more like the sort of design choice that led to klingons having ridges IMO.
My only 2 issues with the new Star Trek movies are this. 1) Sure they look like Star Trek, Sure they have the same characters we see in the Original Series, Or The Prime Universe, as some people have come to call it, but they have the action punch of a Star Wars Movie. 2) While these movies have the punch of an action movie, They have lost they're moral soul. The Original series, Next Gen, and the first 10 films, all had a moral that was based on events, in the real world. for example, Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country, was based on the Events of The Gulf War, and the over throwing of Saddam Hussein and the people of Iraq, being scared of freedom, True freedom, and being frightened of change. Another example of this, goes all the way back to the Original Series episode, "The Way To Eden" Which involves a 23rd Century version of the Hippy Movement. I grew up watching syndicated reruns of the Original Series. sadly i was born a year after the show was canceled. My love for Trek was the fact that what i saw on screen, Was a future i wanted to be a part of. No hunger, no war, No disease. No racial or sexual orientation issues, everyone striving to better themselves as a whole, and not who has the most of this, or the best of that. Or what monopoly makes the most money. I do not hate the New Star Trek movies, I will always love the Original Series for what i just mentioned above, However the new movies are fun to watch, and enjoyable as a movie, and for all the haters out there...
I have 2 things for you. 1) Don't hate on someone, because they have a preference, everyone is entitled, to an opinion. 2) The new Star Wars is set for new audiences, and a younger generation, sure it may have had some of the original cast back, but it was a new gen movie, a passing of the torch of sorts. Everyone i spoke to Love it. LOVED IT!. Old fans and New ones alike. You don't see people fighting over who's Star Wars is who's, and yes i did enjoy the new Star Wars as well. People just need to grow up, and stop acting like 5 year old's, who have gotten they're sucker taken away from them. I will go see Star Trek Beyond when it comes out on the 22nd, so start hating me because of it. Nuff Said.
I despise TFA, mostly because it's a straight up rip off of ANH, but also because it's creation means my preferred Star Wars universe, the old EU, will never have any of it's dangling threads concluded. I defend the JJ-Trek movies, but when it comes to star wars and TFA I'm just as hateful as those that claim Trek '09 isn't canon.
In my star wars headcanon, the old EU stories aren't "Legends", rather they are the only true story, and TFA is just an overbudgeted fan fiction. So now you can say you've talked to a hardcore star wars fan who most certainly does NOT love TFA.
"Legends" is an alt-U. Wait no.... it's a mountain of string after a thousand cats got done playing with it.
THESE things are the source material for everything else called "Star Trek". No time period will EVER supersede the adventures of the USS Enterprise in the 23rd century.
My only 2 issues with the new Star Trek movies are this. 1) Sure they look like Star Trek, Sure they have the same characters we see in the Original Series, Or The Prime Universe, as some people have come to call it, but they have the action punch of a Star Wars Movie. 2) While these movies have the punch of an action movie, They have lost they're moral soul. The Original series, Next Gen, and the first 10 films, all had a moral that was based on events, in the real world. for example, Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country, was based on the Events of The Gulf War, and the over throwing of Saddam Hussein and the people of Iraq, being scared of freedom, True freedom, and being frightened of change. Another example of this, goes all the way back to the Original Series episode, "The Way To Eden" Which involves a 23rd Century version of the Hippy Movement. I grew up watching syndicated reruns of the Original Series. sadly i was born a year after the show was canceled. My love for Trek was the fact that what i saw on screen, Was a future i wanted to be a part of. No hunger, no war, No disease. No racial or sexual orientation issues, everyone striving to better themselves as a whole, and not who has the most of this, or the best of that. Or what monopoly makes the most money. I do not hate the New Star Trek movies, I will always love the Original Series for what i just mentioned above, However the new movies are fun to watch, and enjoyable as a movie, and for all the haters out there...
I have 2 things for you. 1) Don't hate on someone, because they have a preference, everyone is entitled, to an opinion. 2) The new Star Wars is set for new audiences, and a younger generation, sure it may have had some of the original cast back, but it was a new gen movie, a passing of the torch of sorts. Everyone i spoke to Love it. LOVED IT!. Old fans and New ones alike. You don't see people fighting over who's Star Wars is who's, and yes i did enjoy the new Star Wars as well. People just need to grow up, and stop acting like 5 year old's, who have gotten they're sucker taken away from them. I will go see Star Trek Beyond when it comes out on the 22nd, so start hating me because of it. Nuff Said.
I despise TFA, mostly because it's a straight up rip off of ANH, but also because it's creation means my preferred Star Wars universe, the old EU, will never have any of it's dangling threads concluded. I defend the JJ-Trek movies, but when it comes to star wars and TFA I'm just as hateful as those that claim Trek '09 isn't canon.
In my star wars headcanon, the old EU stories aren't "Legends", rather they are the only true story, and TFA is just an overbudgeted fan fiction. So now you can say you've talked to a hardcore star wars fan who most certainly does NOT love TFA.
Make that two of them.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
It's only slightly bigger than the TOS Constitution. And it's aesthetics are more similar to ENT than anything post TOS.
And all their points have been adressed above.
How exactly? Engineering looks like a factory, which is more in line with NuTrek Enterprise's brewery, and while the NX was utilitarian, Engineering was pretty compact and clearly laid out compared to whatever that mess was. Likewise, the bridge has the window/viewscreen combo which is unique to the NuTrek timeline, and does not exist in either ENT or TOS-onwards. Likewise, it uses pulse weapons despite them becoming obsolete in ENT era..something like 80 earlier...and only coming back in Wrath of Khan(briefly) yet fit in pretty well with NuTrek Enterprise's armament. The Nacelle-mounted impulse engine and cavernous hanger stuffed with shuttles (essentially runabouts) are also design sensibilities that are more at home with Nutrek than alongside either ENT or TOS.
What exactly in Starfleet isn't bigger than? The Saladin? Daedalus? Both of those are even smaller. Heck, the cutting edge ship that eventually replaced it, the excelsior-is still smaller than it and undergunned by comparison. One of the explanations given as to why NuTrek has such large ships and are so heavily armed compared to prime-verse counterparts is that the destruction of the Kelvin convinced starfleet to heavily militarize-yet the Kelvin itself wouldn't look out of place in post-Kelvin, where the same cannot be said of it when placed alongside its supposed primeverse contemporaries.
It looks like a factory and? What? It may not resemble ENT engineering but neither does TOS', a small cardboard room with four consoles and a grill on one wall? The window bridge appears on the Franklin which predates the NX. The weapons thing is where you're just ignoring what I'm saying be cause you don't like them. And the shuttlebay. You getting the Kelvin's shuttlebay mixed up with the AR Constitution's. The Kelvin has one of normal size.
The Kelvin is in the ballpark of 300m. That makes it the same size as the TMP Conni refit, larger than all the TOS era designs but smaller than the Excelsior. As for outgunning them, really? The Kelvin has one action scene in the entire film, getting it's ar$e handed to it by the Nerada.
you see that big red line on the kelvin's saucer? see it? that's the ship's impulse engines...they are NOT mounted on the warp nacelles - same goes with the enterprise
anyone who thinks the warp nacelles in KTTrek are also impulse engines clearly has no idea what an impulse engine looks like
Excellent point, I didn't even bother to look for the Kelvin to look at this nacelle mounted engine, but now I needn't bother.
Do you see that big white ball of light directly underneath it? That the camera zooms onto as it flares up right as the Kelvin accelerates and rams into the Narada? Because it's pretty obvious that it's functioning as an impulse engine in that scene.
For whatever reason the folks who designed the ship in the reboot decided that the conventional impulse engines on Trek ships weren't obvious enough as a source of sub-light thrust, so decided to turn the warp nacelles to that purpose too....because every single warp pylon in the new trek has that identical aperture on the back. No ships in the Primeverse have been shown to have such a feature.
So yes, the JJverse warp pylons double as impulse engines as well, as strange as that may seem.
Warp power is being diverted to the impulse engines and the warp nacelles activate (i.e. glow) when warp power is used.
Yes your very correct. As the effects shot purposely used that to show the ship to move at a faster rate of speed. Thus making this nacelle having impulse power. This is not Prime Universe Tech.
Again, prove that no other Prime Universe ship has this supposed feature.
The Franklin isn't part of the first 2 movies, until it comes out in theater. It can't be part of this. Unless they tell how hold she really is. So that part of the debate is nothing there.
You state claims, but you won't offer any evidence to back it up. So where is your proof. I showed mine going by the movies. So your refusing the back it up.
Another on the forum added something else. Reviewing that clip showed another big factor to back mine up. The Kelvin had the same type Engineering as the KT Enterprise. Where NX shows they had a better fitting engineering to match the ship. Not some vast factory where they brew. Even the TOS Connie's engineering didn't look like a brewery. Which of course that is where they filmed the shots, in a real brewery. Cause they was too cheap to create a more functional engineering like the rest of the movies and shows. This is also not part of Prime Universe, thus making it a different one.
I am aware of that, I'm also aware that it's been stated to be the first warp 4 ship, predating the NX. Believe me I see the irony of me using behind the scenes material to inform an argument about canon and that if this information is not alluded to in Beyond I will strike it, but as the Franklin is a large part of the film, its backstory will likely be important.
I don't need to back anything up, I'm refuting your statements, not making ones of my own.
The Kelvin's engineering is nowhere on the scale of the turbine control room in the AR Constitution. We see very little of it in the confusion to even understand the scale of it.
But I (funnily enough) do believe that ENT and TAR are in a separate universe but not for these silly nitpicky reasons.
...or they wanted a new Universe so they can be free in their story telling for this current series.
And they made one. Starting with the Narada's attack on the Kelvin. That is onscreen canon.
Or are you expecting internal consistency in Trek? Because FC (my favorite Prime Universe movie) had that little spot of bother where Worf mentioned "Deck 26," then Picard went and said the Ent-E had 24 decks.
The Kelvin's weird warp flare thing is just an art/research error. Chill out people.
Warp pylons in the JJverse seem to be pretty heavily influenced by jet engines what with the spinny thingy on the front and the turbine-like whine they give off when they power up for warp. Heck, they even went a step further and added glittery contrails when going to warp in STID. With that in mind I think it seems in line with the design logic for the Kelvin verse for the Warp pylons to have an afterburner sort of thing built into it. It just seems consistent with the design aesthetic they were angling for. Considering how front and center it is in that scene and the detail they put into animating it, I think it's a far cry simple errors like FX artists having phasers fire from parts of the ship that aren't supposed to have emitters or writers forgetting to check how many decks a given ship has when writing dialogue for a scene. It seems more like the sort of design choice that led to klingons having ridges IMO.
The TOS films had warp trails. The nacelles of all TMP ships onwards glow when the warp core is activated for any reason (ENT ships too). Warp power was being used to power the impulse engines, so the nacelles flared.
Besides, can you tell us what the PR ships in 2233 looked like please?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
So you're basically tossing out whatever you feel and going with your theory. EVEN THE OWN MOVIE TELLS YOU YOU'RE WRONG.
And all you say is "well can't trust the movie because reasons".
Your mad, cause I busted up JJ Spoof Trek. And you think what they say on screen is all correct. Even though the next movie will tell other wise.
How else you explain the "growing decks on the Enterprise E" ??
I'm not the one continuing to move goal posts to hold onto your precious theory to keep your precious time line separate. Hell even spock alpha(aka Lenard Nimoy) says to Kirk "Hey I'm from the future!" Not "hey I'm from an alternate universe X amount of years in the future". But let me guess, now you're going to say even Spock is wrong too.
And you tell me the truth hurts? Look in the mirror pal. You have ship designs. I have canonical PROOF saying otherwise. Sorry pal I've gone way past burden of proof, you simply dismiss the proof as you see fit and cling to your own truth.
Keep doing it now. It's comical at this point.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
They have lost they're moral soul. The Original series, Next Gen, and the first 10 films, all had a moral that was based on events, in the real world. for example, Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country, was based on the Events of The Gulf War, and the over throwing of Saddam Hussein and the people of Iraq, being scared of freedom, True freedom, and being frightened of change.
Oh dear. Did anyone else read this and suddenly feel really, really old?
Star Trek VI was made in 1991 - about the same time as the USA and its allies had the first armed conflict with Saddam Hussein's regime; said regime would last another 12 years. The film was explicitly a parallel with the end of the standoff between NATO and the Soviet Union, effectively the last gasp of TOS' paradigm equating the Klingons with the Soviets. You make a good point about fear of change being a general theme, but the specifics of STVI - a peaceful end to decades of armed standoff - are quite rare in history.
What exactly in Starfleet isn't bigger than? The Saladin? Daedalus? Both of those are even smaller. Heck, the cutting edge ship that eventually replaced it, the excelsior-is still smaller than it and undergunned by comparison. One of the explanations given as to why NuTrek has such large ships and are so heavily armed compared to prime-verse counterparts is that the destruction of the Kelvin convinced starfleet to heavily militarize-yet the Kelvin itself wouldn't look out of place in post-Kelvin, where the same cannot be said of it when placed alongside its supposed primeverse contemporaries.
Back to the old "no new mistakes" line; the Andorian and Vulcan (pre-Federation) ships in ENT are roughly the size of the Excelsior. It's the NX-01 which is the undersized outlier, so it's entirely credible that in a parallel timeline, TNG size norms would have been in play by Kirk's era; the shipbuilding capacity clearly exists.
Or are you expecting internal consistency in Trek? Because FC (my favorite Prime Universe movie) had that little spot of bother where Worf mentioned "Deck 26," then Picard went and said the Ent-E had 24 decks.
The Kelvin's weird warp flare thing is just an art/research error. Chill out people.
Most of the tech is usually consistency on their looks. However a few things changes here and there, but that is acceptable for refits and advances.
The dialogs is the part where its most troublesome. The Enterprise E went through 3 different amount of decks. So which one is it really. Plus it don't match the ship size to keep changing it like that. This is where Spock made an error on 2009. He didn't have a full clue what happened.
And yes they wanted to create a new series for people to go and see, or not to see. Depending on how the person like it. And not having to worry about following the Prime Universe on anything. So basically making a reboot, not just on a time travel.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I'm not the one continuing to move goal posts to hold onto your precious theory to keep your precious time line separate. Hell even spock alpha(aka Lenard Nimoy) says to Kirk "Hey I'm from the future!" Not "hey I'm from an alternate universe X amount of years in the future". But let me guess, now you're going to say even Spock is wrong too.
And you tell me the truth hurts? Look in the mirror pal. You have ship designs. I have canonical PROOF saying otherwise. Sorry pal I've gone way past burden of proof, you simply dismiss the proof as you see fit and cling to your own truth.
Keep doing it now. It's comical at this point.
Yes, Spock was incorrect. He didn't have a full clue what happened.
Bottom line, the graphics crew and writers really messed up. The graphics for not making it compatible to the Prime Universe to show it was part of it. And the Writers for not keeping it the same. Over the years they make writing mistakes.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
It is tricky to differentiate between actual movie goofs/mistakes and continuity errors that require explanation.
If in the same movie two people that know the ship mention different decks we would assume, IRL, one made a mistake. The movie however doesn't intend to, Worf and Picard know what they are saying (this is generally true for every dialogue that is not played out to intentionally be false/deceitful). Generally, characters that have no reason to do not lie on-screen. When Worf looks at the computer and says "they're on deck 26", Picard later says the Ent has 26 decks. The 24 was a human actor/movie maker error. Sometimes these errors are adressed by those responsible, for instance missing rank isnignia or the "Klingon Warbird" in ENT. When someone responsible says "this was a mistake", even though this statement is non canonical it is true and the faulty information needs to be removed from continuity. In the first case though we don't have that, so we have to assume what's "actually" true.
Now, Spock saying he's formt he future, no parallel reality he doesn't lie, it's exposition. There's no reasonf or him to make a mistake, lie or be deceitful. However, previously introduced canon hints at a parallel universe more than it does on a timeline change. No error has been made, but canon is contradicting. It's reasonable to assume the majority of canon deictates what is actually true and Spock says "reality" and not "timeline".
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
that the nacelle was 'spewing light' means absolutely nothing, because guess what? ALL starfleet ship nacelles spew light when the ship goes to warp, and in the case of the TMP era, they spew it in a trail-like exhaust pattern
Granted, it's only really my own headcanon - but considering the Kelvin was a wreck by that point I, personally, choose to beleive that the impulse engines were basically inoperable - possibly due to being locked into the autopilot, which was offline.
I therefore choose to beleive that George Kirk vented plasma (or something) to get the ship in motion.
That seems very plausible..I would imagine it might work very similar to how you'd get a stuck steam-powered ship moving (i.e. venting as much steam as possible..doubt it would work though).
Yes, Spock was incorrect. He didn't have a full clue what happened.
Going to need some citation on that one. How is it you know Spock was incorrect? After all it's younger Spock that establishes it is an alternate reality in the same film.
Which Spock is incorrect at which time in this timeline? And which timeline is the incorrect timeline?
It looks like a factory and? What? It may not resemble ENT engineering but neither does TOS', a small cardboard room with four consoles and a grill on one wall? The window bridge appears on the Franklin which predates the NX. The weapons thing is where you're just ignoring what I'm saying be cause you don't like them. And the shuttlebay. You getting the Kelvin's shuttlebay mixed up with the AR Constitution's. The Kelvin has one of normal size.
The Kelvin is in the ballpark of 300m. That makes it the same size as the TMP Conni refit, larger than all the TOS era designs but smaller than the Excelsior. As for outgunning them, really? The Kelvin has one action scene in the entire film, getting it's ar$e handed to it by the Nerada.
The Franklin hasn't been shown yet in film. So until this is shown. Then there is no evidence to back it up. So how you know it predates the NX? When there is nothing in the movies to stat it at this time.
The TOS engineering was a window with some equipment going up in a V pattern. Either one didn't have lots of pipes and looks like a brewery factory. Which the Kelvin and KT Enterprise did. This proves its part of different Universe.
Kelvin at 300 meters? This alone breaks Canon, as no other ship at the time was bigger than the Constitution. So if the Kelvin was built before the Constitution Class even came out. This alone breaks Canon. Making it not part of the Prime Universe.
The phasers was told during the TMP. They was using the warp core to run them. That is why Decker went over Kirk's order, and saved the ship. Later this would have effect as well, since it was off line during TWOK.
Warp power is being diverted to the impulse engines and the warp nacelles activate (i.e. glow) when warp power is used.
Acutally, the impulse drive is separate than Warp drive. This is why they can run a ship with warp power off line. Most Master Displays shows the 2 have no systems to feed each other, as they are totally separate. Once again, this breaks Canon and is not part of the Prime Universe. And there is no "Afterburners" functioning exhausts on the nacelles. As the movie purposely shows that in operation. Once again not part of the Prime Universe. Need proof, watch some Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and their movies to go with them. Cause saying they do have it, shows you never seen any of them. And going by your quote. I don't need to back anything up.. Also proves you hadn't watched any of them. Other than 2009 and ID.
Post edited by farmallm on
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Going to need some citation on that one. How is it you know Spock was incorrect? After all it's younger Spock that establishes it is an alternate reality in the same film.
Which Spock is incorrect at which time in this timeline? And which timeline is the incorrect timeline?
Have you seen the TMP yet? To see how the TOS Constitution and TMP Constitution Refit are the same I figured you would have by now.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Going to need some citation on that one. How is it you know Spock was incorrect? After all it's younger Spock that establishes it is an alternate reality in the same film.
Which Spock is incorrect at which time in this timeline? And which timeline is the incorrect timeline?
Have you seen the TMP yet? To see how the TOS and TMP Constitution are the same? I figured you would have by now.
I can't speak for Snoggy, but I tried watching it once. Best nap I've ever had.
The Franklin hasn't been shown yet in film. So until this is shown. Then there is no evidence to back it up. So how you know it predates the NX? When there is nothing in the movies to stat it at this time.
Okay dokay, ignore the Franklin. Feel free to resurrect this after the release of Beyond though.
The TOS engineering was a window with some equipment going up in a V pattern. Either one didn't have lots of pipes and looks like a brewery factory. Which the Kelvin and KT Enterprise did. This proves its part of different Universe.
Go back and look at the Kelvin engineering section again, it's nothing like the brewery. By the way, the brewery is Turbine Control not Enginering. Engineering is the warp core room only seen in ID.
Kelvin at 300 meters? This alone breaks Canon, as no other ship at the time was bigger than the Constitution. So if the Kelvin was built before the Constitution Class even came out. This alone breaks Canon. Making it not part of the Prime Universe.
Now you're purposely being daft. That statement is complete and utter bollocks. Are you seriously suggesting, with a straight face, that a ship a few dozen metres bigger than the Constitution (one of only two TOS cruisers seen BTW other than the Bonaventure) 'breaks canon'. That is one of the stupidest statements I've ever read.
The phasers was told during the TMP. They was using the warp core to run them. That is why Decker went over Kirk's order, and saved the ship. Later this would have effect as well, since it was off line during TWOK.
The refit uses pulse phasers consistently. It's nothing to do with warp power going off line, that's something you pulled out of your ar$e.
Acutally, the impulse drive is separate than Warp drive. This is why they can run a ship with warp power off line. Most Master Displays shows the 2 have no systems to feed each other, as they are totally separate. Once again, this breaks Canon and is
not part of the Prime Universe.
Firstly, wrong. Every ship system is powered by the warp core, the fact that the have auxiliary power to work systems if the warp core goes offline doesn't change that. The Warp Core is main power.
Secondly, it doesn't break canon. How hard is it to get that? The Defiant has a cloaking device but no other Federation ship deos. By your impeccable logic that means that DS9 is in a parallel universe because the Defiant having a cloak breaks canon.
That's not me misconstruing your argument, that's me doing a word for word replacement hoping you see how daft your claim is.
And there is no "Afterburners" functioning exhausts on the nacelles. As the movie purposely shows that in operation. Once again not part of the Prime Universe. Need proof, watch some Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and their movies to go with them.
I retracted that after I saw a pic of the Kelvin with its impulse engines at the back exactly where they should be. I then changed to say the nacelles glow when the warp core is activated, i.e. powering the ships thrusters and engines to set it on a collision course.
And again, that does not prove a parallel universe in the slightest. Not at all. None. No more than saying that the TOS Ent is in a different reality because it has yellow pipes on the wall. Go watch some Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and their movies, do you see any yellow pipes on the walls? PROOF TOS IS A PARALLEL UNIVERSE CONFIRMED!!!
Seriously, you need to work on your concept of logic.
Cause saying they do have it, shows you never seen any of them. And going by your quote. I don't need to back anything up.. Also proves you hadn't watched any of them. Other than 2009 and ID.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Regardless of what it's actually doing, I think it's pretty obvious the CGI artists and/or JJ Abrams had no idea what the difference was between the nacelles and the impulse engines, and intended for that to be an exhaust effect. I just chalk it up to an art error, just like the art errors that make the size of the JJ-prise ambiguous.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Any licensed work that appears on film or as part of a TV series and takes place in the Prime, Kelvin, or Mirror universes. Or, for a shorter answer, all of it.
This is the part where I was talking about "just going back in time". Someone didn't do their homework, thus made it not going back in time. When you just go back in time only, you use stuff from the past that is already known canon. They done this before, but this time they didn't. So yes either they goofed up cause they didn't care about it, or they wanted a new Universe so they can be free in their story telling for this current series.
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Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Franklin isn't part of the first 2 movies, until it comes out in theater. It can't be part of this. Unless they tell how hold she really is. So that part of the debate is nothing there.
You state claims, but you won't offer any evidence to back it up. So where is your proof. I showed mine going by the movies. So your refusing the back it up.
Another on the forum added something else. Reviewing that clip showed another big factor to back mine up. The Kelvin had the same type Engineering as the KT Enterprise. Where NX shows they had a better fitting engineering to match the ship. Not some vast factory where they brew. Even the TOS Connie's engineering didn't look like a brewery. Which of course that is where they filmed the shots, in a real brewery. Cause they was too cheap to create a more functional engineering like the rest of the movies and shows. This is also not part of Prime Universe, thus making it a different one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The answer is Galaxy Quest.
Space Battleship Yamato!
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
And they made one. Starting with the Narada's attack on the Kelvin. That is onscreen canon.
Or are you expecting internal consistency in Trek? Because FC (my favorite Prime Universe movie) had that little spot of bother where Worf mentioned "Deck 26," then Picard went and said the Ent-E had 24 decks.
The Kelvin's weird warp flare thing is just an art/research error. Chill out people.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Not when you consider TRIBBLE like Star Trek: Voyager or Star Trek V: The Final Frontier or Star trek: Nemesis it's not.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
STNG - Pretty cool, Ltc Data, Lore, Hugh, Borg and Q all rocked
DS9 - Freaking hated it, someone slap Sisko !!!
Voyager - 7 of 9 and Borg galore
ST: Enterprise - Pretty meh ... less the 1 Borg episode in Alaska
ST 2009 & Into Darkness - Loved them both, lens flares and all
Especially the lens flares.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Warp pylons in the JJverse seem to be pretty heavily influenced by jet engines what with the spinny thingy on the front and the turbine-like whine they give off when they power up for warp. Heck, they even went a step further and added glittery contrails when going to warp in STID. With that in mind I think it seems in line with the design logic for the Kelvin verse for the Warp pylons to have an afterburner sort of thing built into it. It just seems consistent with the design aesthetic they were angling for. Considering how front and center it is in that scene and the detail they put into animating it, I think it's a far cry simple errors like FX artists having phasers fire from parts of the ship that aren't supposed to have emitters or writers forgetting to check how many decks a given ship has when writing dialogue for a scene. It seems more like the sort of design choice that led to klingons having ridges IMO.
My character Tsin'xing
Because they are from the SOURCE MATERIAL. Not that TNG, Voyager, DS9 bullchip tossing contest.
Kirk and Spock, Scotty, Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu are Star Trek. The Constitution Class is Star Trek.
THESE things are the source material for everything else called "Star Trek". No time period will EVER supersede the adventures of the USS Enterprise in the 23rd century.
That's why NuTrek is better than TNG and its spinoffs. It's guns blasting killing bad guys to get the sexy girl with a lesson in morals along the way; to win the prize and become a better person.
Also, the inability to move forward in life leads to stagnation and death. Accept the facts. Star Trek is Star Trek.
Make that two of them.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
It looks like a factory and? What? It may not resemble ENT engineering but neither does TOS', a small cardboard room with four consoles and a grill on one wall? The window bridge appears on the Franklin which predates the NX. The weapons thing is where you're just ignoring what I'm saying be cause you don't like them. And the shuttlebay. You getting the Kelvin's shuttlebay mixed up with the AR Constitution's. The Kelvin has one of normal size.
The Kelvin is in the ballpark of 300m. That makes it the same size as the TMP Conni refit, larger than all the TOS era designs but smaller than the Excelsior. As for outgunning them, really? The Kelvin has one action scene in the entire film, getting it's ar$e handed to it by the Nerada.
Excellent point, I didn't even bother to look for the Kelvin to look at this nacelle mounted engine, but now I needn't bother.
Warp power is being diverted to the impulse engines and the warp nacelles activate (i.e. glow) when warp power is used.
Again, prove that no other Prime Universe ship has this supposed feature.
I am aware of that, I'm also aware that it's been stated to be the first warp 4 ship, predating the NX. Believe me I see the irony of me using behind the scenes material to inform an argument about canon and that if this information is not alluded to in Beyond I will strike it, but as the Franklin is a large part of the film, its backstory will likely be important.
I don't need to back anything up, I'm refuting your statements, not making ones of my own.
The Kelvin's engineering is nowhere on the scale of the turbine control room in the AR Constitution. We see very little of it in the confusion to even understand the scale of it.
But I (funnily enough) do believe that ENT and TAR are in a separate universe but not for these silly nitpicky reasons.
The TOS films had warp trails. The nacelles of all TMP ships onwards glow when the warp core is activated for any reason (ENT ships too). Warp power was being used to power the impulse engines, so the nacelles flared.
Besides, can you tell us what the PR ships in 2233 looked like please?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I'm not the one continuing to move goal posts to hold onto your precious theory to keep your precious time line separate. Hell even spock alpha(aka Lenard Nimoy) says to Kirk "Hey I'm from the future!" Not "hey I'm from an alternate universe X amount of years in the future". But let me guess, now you're going to say even Spock is wrong too.
And you tell me the truth hurts? Look in the mirror pal. You have ship designs. I have canonical PROOF saying otherwise. Sorry pal I've gone way past burden of proof, you simply dismiss the proof as you see fit and cling to your own truth.
Keep doing it now. It's comical at this point.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Oh dear. Did anyone else read this and suddenly feel really, really old?
Star Trek VI was made in 1991 - about the same time as the USA and its allies had the first armed conflict with Saddam Hussein's regime; said regime would last another 12 years. The film was explicitly a parallel with the end of the standoff between NATO and the Soviet Union, effectively the last gasp of TOS' paradigm equating the Klingons with the Soviets. You make a good point about fear of change being a general theme, but the specifics of STVI - a peaceful end to decades of armed standoff - are quite rare in history.
Back to the old "no new mistakes" line; the Andorian and Vulcan (pre-Federation) ships in ENT are roughly the size of the Excelsior. It's the NX-01 which is the undersized outlier, so it's entirely credible that in a parallel timeline, TNG size norms would have been in play by Kirk's era; the shipbuilding capacity clearly exists.
Most of the tech is usually consistency on their looks. However a few things changes here and there, but that is acceptable for refits and advances.
The dialogs is the part where its most troublesome. The Enterprise E went through 3 different amount of decks. So which one is it really. Plus it don't match the ship size to keep changing it like that. This is where Spock made an error on 2009. He didn't have a full clue what happened.
And yes they wanted to create a new series for people to go and see, or not to see. Depending on how the person like it. And not having to worry about following the Prime Universe on anything. So basically making a reboot, not just on a time travel.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Yes, Spock was incorrect. He didn't have a full clue what happened.
Bottom line, the graphics crew and writers really messed up. The graphics for not making it compatible to the Prime Universe to show it was part of it. And the Writers for not keeping it the same. Over the years they make writing mistakes.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
If in the same movie two people that know the ship mention different decks we would assume, IRL, one made a mistake. The movie however doesn't intend to, Worf and Picard know what they are saying (this is generally true for every dialogue that is not played out to intentionally be false/deceitful). Generally, characters that have no reason to do not lie on-screen. When Worf looks at the computer and says "they're on deck 26", Picard later says the Ent has 26 decks. The 24 was a human actor/movie maker error. Sometimes these errors are adressed by those responsible, for instance missing rank isnignia or the "Klingon Warbird" in ENT. When someone responsible says "this was a mistake", even though this statement is non canonical it is true and the faulty information needs to be removed from continuity. In the first case though we don't have that, so we have to assume what's "actually" true.
Now, Spock saying he's formt he future, no parallel reality he doesn't lie, it's exposition. There's no reasonf or him to make a mistake, lie or be deceitful. However, previously introduced canon hints at a parallel universe more than it does on a timeline change. No error has been made, but canon is contradicting. It's reasonable to assume the majority of canon deictates what is actually true and Spock says "reality" and not "timeline".
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That seems very plausible..I would imagine it might work very similar to how you'd get a stuck steam-powered ship moving (i.e. venting as much steam as possible..doubt it would work though).
Going to need some citation on that one. How is it you know Spock was incorrect? After all it's younger Spock that establishes it is an alternate reality in the same film.
Which Spock is incorrect at which time in this timeline? And which timeline is the incorrect timeline?
You're starting to remind me of this guy:
It looks like a factory and? What? It may not resemble ENT engineering but neither does TOS', a small cardboard room with four consoles and a grill on one wall? The window bridge appears on the Franklin which predates the NX. The weapons thing is where you're just ignoring what I'm saying be cause you don't like them. And the shuttlebay. You getting the Kelvin's shuttlebay mixed up with the AR Constitution's. The Kelvin has one of normal size.
The Kelvin is in the ballpark of 300m. That makes it the same size as the TMP Conni refit, larger than all the TOS era designs but smaller than the Excelsior. As for outgunning them, really? The Kelvin has one action scene in the entire film, getting it's ar$e handed to it by the Nerada.
The Franklin hasn't been shown yet in film. So until this is shown. Then there is no evidence to back it up. So how you know it predates the NX? When there is nothing in the movies to stat it at this time.
The TOS engineering was a window with some equipment going up in a V pattern. Either one didn't have lots of pipes and looks like a brewery factory. Which the Kelvin and KT Enterprise did. This proves its part of different Universe.
Kelvin at 300 meters? This alone breaks Canon, as no other ship at the time was bigger than the Constitution. So if the Kelvin was built before the Constitution Class even came out. This alone breaks Canon. Making it not part of the Prime Universe.
The phasers was told during the TMP. They was using the warp core to run them. That is why Decker went over Kirk's order, and saved the ship. Later this would have effect as well, since it was off line during TWOK.
Warp power is being diverted to the impulse engines and the warp nacelles activate (i.e. glow) when warp power is used.
Acutally, the impulse drive is separate than Warp drive. This is why they can run a ship with warp power off line. Most Master Displays shows the 2 have no systems to feed each other, as they are totally separate. Once again, this breaks Canon and is not part of the Prime Universe. And there is no "Afterburners" functioning exhausts on the nacelles. As the movie purposely shows that in operation. Once again not part of the Prime Universe. Need proof, watch some Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and their movies to go with them. Cause saying they do have it, shows you never seen any of them. And going by your quote. I don't need to back anything up.. Also proves you hadn't watched any of them. Other than 2009 and ID.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Have you seen the TMP yet? To see how the TOS Constitution and TMP Constitution Refit are the same I figured you would have by now.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I can't speak for Snoggy, but I tried watching it once. Best nap I've ever had.
Okay dokay, ignore the Franklin. Feel free to resurrect this after the release of Beyond though.
Go back and look at the Kelvin engineering section again, it's nothing like the brewery. By the way, the brewery is Turbine Control not Enginering. Engineering is the warp core room only seen in ID.
Now you're purposely being daft. That statement is complete and utter bollocks. Are you seriously suggesting, with a straight face, that a ship a few dozen metres bigger than the Constitution (one of only two TOS cruisers seen BTW other than the Bonaventure) 'breaks canon'. That is one of the stupidest statements I've ever read.
The refit uses pulse phasers consistently. It's nothing to do with warp power going off line, that's something you pulled out of your ar$e.
Firstly, wrong. Every ship system is powered by the warp core, the fact that the have auxiliary power to work systems if the warp core goes offline doesn't change that. The Warp Core is main power.
Secondly, it doesn't break canon. How hard is it to get that? The Defiant has a cloaking device but no other Federation ship deos. By your impeccable logic that means that DS9 is in a parallel universe because the Defiant having a cloak breaks canon.
That's not me misconstruing your argument, that's me doing a word for word replacement hoping you see how daft your claim is.
I retracted that after I saw a pic of the Kelvin with its impulse engines at the back exactly where they should be. I then changed to say the nacelles glow when the warp core is activated, i.e. powering the ships thrusters and engines to set it on a collision course.
And again, that does not prove a parallel universe in the slightest. Not at all. None. No more than saying that the TOS Ent is in a different reality because it has yellow pipes on the wall. Go watch some Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and their movies, do you see any yellow pipes on the walls? PROOF TOS IS A PARALLEL UNIVERSE CONFIRMED!!!
Seriously, you need to work on your concept of logic.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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For your heroic deeds ... I will make for you my good sir, a [Kelvin] themed foundry mission.
I know, I know, you're speechless ... just give me your dil!