The entire timeline would have changed as Nero passed through the portal, like the Enterprise-D and her entire history did as the Enterprise-C passed through the portal in Yesterday's Enterprise.
I mean, logically the JJ-verse Enterprise-D will certainly have at least a few different crew members, or more likely an entirely different crew. With a different crew, the encounters with the Borg would have gone differently, and the attack on First Contact probably wouldn't happen. In First Contact, many of Cochrane's people were killed in the initial attack. So Joe scientist, who was killed in the prime verse bit is now alive in the JJ-verse, lives on and has kids, kids who never existed in the prime universe. These kids have their own kids, or change how different technologies are developed, leading to ships that look different from their prime universe counterparts. Further, since no borg go back in time, the Enterprise era arctic research team doesn't die, and also live on to alter the timeline of the JJ-verse.
Or do you prefer there be massive, unexplainable paradoxes in the JJ-verse, where people are influenced by events that did not happen in this universe?
Nero went into a Parallel universe. Where things was different, and not even part of the Prime timeline. He just didn't go back in time only. If so it would be based off the Prime Time line.
Unless and until a writer decides to retcon the story that way as a "major revelation," the JJ-verse was not a pre-existing alternate universe.
The entire timeline would have changed as Nero passed through the portal, like the Enterprise-D and her entire history did as the Enterprise-C passed through the portal in Yesterday's Enterprise.
I mean, logically the JJ-verse Enterprise-D will certainly have at least a few different crew members, or more likely an entirely different crew. With a different crew, the encounters with the Borg would have gone differently, and the attack on First Contact probably wouldn't happen. In First Contact, many of Cochrane's people were killed in the initial attack. So Joe scientist, who was killed in the prime verse bit is now alive in the JJ-verse, lives on and has kids, kids who never existed in the prime universe. These kids have their own kids, or change how different technologies are developed, leading to ships that look different from their prime universe counterparts. Further, since no borg go back in time, the Enterprise era arctic research team doesn't die, and also live on to alter the timeline of the JJ-verse.
Or do you prefer there be massive, unexplainable paradoxes in the JJ-verse, where people are influenced by events that did not happen in this universe?
Nero went into a Parallel universe. Where things was different, and not even part of the Prime timeline. He just didn't go back in time only. If so it would be based off the Prime Time line.
Unless and until a writer decides to retcon the story that way as a "major revelation," the JJ-verse was not a pre-existing alternate universe.
Actually it is with Quantum Reality, as they told that is what KT is. They are in a different reality, and not in the Prime universe and never will be.
They both are kinda the same but not. One is in a different reality all together, the other was caused by just time travel. And the events changed afterwards.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Also it can't be repeated enough the answer to the OP's question of "why do people believe the movies are deserving of being called trek' its because the movies are called Star Trek, have kirk/spock/bones/scotty/the rest in them, and are about the USS enterprise ncc 1701.
Quaint.
Imagine someone bought a nice new PC. Her or she would open the box and would find lots of dough inside.
Its the same with the "new" Star Trek.
Imagine someone bought a nice new PC. Her or she would open the box and would find lots of dough inside.
Its the same with the "new" Star Trek.
What? I don't follow, probably because that doesn't follow.
It's head canon. The poster is comparing New Trek to easy bake ovens, that come with dough inside. The poster's head canon is much more true to the Star Trek IP than anything people who work on Star Trek movies have been doing.
What? I don't follow, probably because that doesn't follow.
Well repetitiveepic stated that the new Trek is Star Trek because it says so in the title.
The new movies are as much Star Trek as dough in a box with a shiny PC label on it.
You expect a PC inside because is says so on the label but you find dough inside.
Does this make any sense to you?
Well repetitiveepic stated that the new Trek is Star Trek because it says so in the title.
You're purposely skipping the part where the poster mentions that the new movies are about the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise ... Captain Kirk, Mister Spock, Bones, Scotty, the whole gang. On the NC 1701.
But hey, Real Trek Fans of the True Trek are far more like ...
I'm going to start this by saying, I loved the movies, I loved every minute of the movies.
but I hate that they are now becoming the "prefered" Star Trek Go to's. So many people are trying to say this collection of fanservice nudges wrapped around a good Sci-Fi base story, is Deserving of being called Star Trek.
I guarantee you all, if Nimoy wasn't in the first movie, it'd have been thrown out the window and Into Darkness would never have been made. But that's just it, the whole basis, as far as I can see, for people accepting the JJ movies as Star Trek, is the inclusion and participation of Nimoy, if Nimoy wasn't involved, people would have called them out for trying too hard to pretend. Most people can't even give me a real reason why the movies (apart from their names and branding) actually can be called Star Trek.
they are big, blustering, over produced Sci-Fi action movies. Their writing is not that special, the actors are WAY too young looking to be taken seriously as senior bridge crew. We hear of their exploits in secondary sources like comics, fai....Horribly Failed video games, etc. but even in those, there is nothing that resembles Star Trek. there is no great exploration, there is fighting, more fighting, and oh yes, sexy people.
no one so far, has given me any real reason as to why these movies could make claim to the "Star Trek" honor. The first movie had music from ToS and TMP, it had References from Enterprise, it showed Tribbles, It just took a BUNCH of quotes, outside of their original context, and slapped them lazily in so we'd believe they're Star Treky.
I get, that the JJ franchise is going to bring this game some money, and some...interesting ships to say the least. but this has caused more of a divide than most people care to admit, one side claims the other is too small, one claims the other is salty. it's gotten to the point that I'm positive this will not end well. and to hear, the developers might be deciding soon to end the Prime universe continuation, in favor of supporting the "kelvin" universe, makes me weep for the love I have for this game. I may be bitter at som....mos....all but a few of their decisions, and wish they'd eventually be bought out again, to someone far more considerate of the IP. but I always loved this game, I've been here since it's conception, I've got too many characters, and I love the game dearly...but to think the Kelvin line might supplant the Prime line.....I can't fathom the sheer devastation it would cause to fans like me.
Go back to 1987 and replace "JJ Franchise" with "Star Trek The Next Generation" and you'll know how a great many original Star Trek (TOS) fans felt after "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Naked Now" aired.
What? You're upset that the latest incarnation of Star Trek is bringing in new fans that like it, and feel that the show that ended 22 years ago (but was popular) is "What Star Trek is"? Hey, welcome to the full Star Trek fandom experience.
Bottom line: Yes, it's all "Star Trek" (although you yourself may prefer one particular version over the others.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
You know I would love to see a tv series of star trek in the kelvin timeline that is more focused on the time after the Narada came into the timeline yet prior to the first new movies. Which would be during a time when they are trying to figure out what race the Narada belongs to, while debates an events on whether the federation should go more military or diplomatic in their stance being debated with the fact of the Narada being out there are happening.
The JJ-trek are fine Trek flavored action movies. But not 'real' Trek.
Pretty much this. If you go in expecting a... whatever it's supposed to be called again (I think 'action movie' wasn't the whole thing), you'll find that it's decent enough as that. If you go in expecting Star Trek... not so much. The franchise started degenerating in some ways in Voyager (but still managed to be okay most of the time, despite its more glaring issues), really got at it in Enterprise (though the fourth season wasn't half-bad, TATV notwithstanding), and reached rock bottom in the Kelvin timeline.
Amusingly, STO has so far managed to do a decent job of smoothing out the rough edges despite being more constrained (kill, kill, kill!) than the series/movies it's smoothing out.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I do not like the new movies and can identify with most of the OPs critique. However, these movies are not different from basically every other Star Trek movie aside from the original cast featuring ones. Why? Because Star Trek is meant to be in a series format. When used in a movie the plot always needs to be simplified, it mustn't alienate people with no familiarity to the universe thus either using completely different, never before heard of plot points which are blown up to "center of the universe" importance or characters and things we already know need to be rewritten to accomodate for their new 90+ minute function. From Generations until Nemesis all movies have honestly been not very good. The most critically acclaimed one is "First Contact" despite majorly damaging established continuity. And why? Because it is full of action scenes with a basic archetypical plotline which ends with no meaningful development to the characters or following movies whatsoever. Just like the new ones.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I really hope the next TV series is set in the KT (or TAR which is still a better name CBS ) then we can get several hundred hours of character development, consequences, and episodes devoted to philosophy, exploration, human development, casual racism, cultural relativism, and occasional TV marvel like 'Code or Honour' or 'Spock's Brain'.
But instead, compare like to like. Film to film.
TMP: 2 hours of special effects, aesthetics that are nothing like TOS, and a rehashed, worse, plot from an old TOS episode.
TWoK: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Spock's death and because it featured a bad guy from TOS.
TSfS: An enormous cop out on the emotional weight of the last film, Enterprise destruction TRIBBLE, and The Genesis Device, the single stupidest, overpowered technobabble bollocks to ever grace ST, Voyagers reset button and Red Matter come nowhere close to this piece of humongus OPnes.
TVH: A comedy with Whales.
TFF: Continuity, what continuity. You want you bad Trek film? Here it is, not even any action or lense flares to distract you.
TUC: Basic action film with an ongoing plot from TOS all tied up.
GEN: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to SKirk and Picard appearing together.
FC: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Borg 'splosions and because it featured a bad guy race from TNG.
INS: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to... nothing really. I almost forget it existed.
NEM: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Data's death and because it featured a bad guy race from TNG.
09: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to completely reigniting the franchise and opening the ST universe up to a whole new generation death and because it featured a bad guy race from TNG.
ID: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Kirk's (temporary) death and because it featured a bad guy from TOS.
BYD: I'm going to go out on a limb and guess on...
...A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to X and because it featured a bad guy from X.
I can see why TAR is looking so un-Trek to people, I mean it's not even as thought it can compare to the cinematic masterpieces that preceded it.
I do think this 'True Trek'TM only exists inside peoples heads.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@artan42 To be fair, the original cast movies were a bit different but this is also mainly founded int he time they were made in, things simply worked different back then. TMP was the pilot to a not realized show. It had a show plot but it was supposed to become a new show which would have simply continued what TOS tried to be in the first place, just with bigger budget and costumes that tortured the actors that wore them. TNG S1 ultimately became Phase II and the costume thing even was true for that one as well... Hmm...
ST II-IV - are one overarching plot, a continuity in itself. While the basic plots are not brilliant the movies' strength is the chemistry between the protagonists which builds upon the show the characters are from. There is a reason the three protagonists are great together. What happens when you take the plot but remove the chemistry between the protagonists is... 09 and ID.
ST V - hard to defend it. Typical Star Trek movie, completely decoupled from any continuity, introduces elements never heard of before, never seen again and features a minimalist plot but at least some good character moments (I remember Bones' glimpse into his past being a rather strong moment, but it's been a while. Again, character chemistry going back to TOS).
ST VI - A all around "Trek" movie with a moral plot, character moments and a emotional fanfare, sending the heroes into retirement.
Now, the TNG movies technically also are based ona show, but in all of them the protagonists were so weirdly rewritten that it doesn't matter. What stays are actors pushed into action movies that were not meant to play action movies with continuity damaging plots and unmemorable villians - just like the new movies.
"True Trek" is a inconclusive term to use. But I think it refers to the notion of using the stage it has available to make overall positive statements about humanities' future. The TNG movies and the new movies don't really go there. They're movies for movie goers, if that makes sense...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I largely don't like the JJ Trek movies. Not because they break from Trek canon, don't hold up to some nebulous Roddenbury ideal and are basically popcorn action clicks. I don't like them because they're bad movies, especially the second one.
It's not helped by the fact they feel like parodies of TOS Trek, rather than modernising it (like was done in with the TMP-era movies).
That said, they're still better than a not so insignificant portion of TV Trek and I'd take the first JJ-Trek movie over Insurrection and Generations easily.
I look at it this way. There is a ship called 'Enterprise", there is a group of young explorers of many nationalities going out into space to explore and protect their allies. They face complex threats from individuals and organizations that threaten their ways of life.
That sounds an awful lot like the TV show and first several movies if you ask me. It's a re imagining of an old IP and an exploration into what could have been had the technology been there when they started. Someone took something iconic, made it new again, and put it on screen for all to enjoy. Many fans did not, but you cannot deny that the new movies encouraged a new generation of Star Trek fans.
I largely don't like the JJ Trek movies. Not because they break from Trek canon, don't hold up to some nebulous Roddenbury ideal and are basically popcorn action clicks. I don't like them because they're bad movies, especially the second one.
It's not helped by the fact they feel like parodies of TOS Trek, rather than modernising it (like was done in with the TMP-era movies).
That said, they're still better than a not so insignificant portion of TV Trek and I'd take the first JJ-Trek movie over Insurrection and Generations easily.
From the amount of people who keep saying that they are objectively bad movies, you'd think ID was the new Battlefield Earth.
They're not cinematic masterpieces, but they aren't terrible.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
[/quote] Almost nothing in Star Trek is science fact. That's why it's called science fiction.[/quote]
Yes, but there are legions of nerds dedicated to making it so!
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Honestly the only real problems I have with the JJ-Trek movies is that it seems to only take a minute or two to get from Earth to Vulcan, and only very very slightly longer to get from the Klingon neutral zone back to earth.
I also find it odd that no additional federation ships were sent to investigate why a Federation vessel was firing on another federation vessel, when both ships were in earth orbit.
All Star Trek locations are within kiloplots of each other. Compare how long it took for Kirk to reach the centre of the Galaxy (TFF) and its edge (WNMHGB) and for Voyager to travel less distance.
Also, the Enterprise is always the only ship in the sector in every ST film.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I guess nobody would enjoy watching the crew through weeks of routine work, killing time until they reach their destination. However, in the shows it never felt like instant travel, but this is something really hard to depict believable in a single movie.
See the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings movies. The parties needed several months to travel from point A to point B, but the movies are all "let's go there" *bing* "okay, we're here" and of course they never discuss substantial stuff during the long journeys since the audience cannot miss sensitive talks. A movie is a very bad medium to depict lengthy journeys.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
Unless and until a writer decides to retcon the story that way as a "major revelation," the JJ-verse was not a pre-existing alternate universe.
Actually it is with Quantum Reality, as they told that is what KT is. They are in a different reality, and not in the Prime universe and never will be.
Data explains it best:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjBCiHhX8S0A9YknnIlQ?p=data+explains+quantum+universe&fr=yhs-mozilla-004&fr2=piv-web&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004#id=1&vid=a4abfe8e8280537dee2e9232f031dab8&action=view
Then you have the alternate reality time line. Doc Brown explains this one.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjQni3hXJowAXnEnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTE0amprcWNiBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDRkZVSTJDMV8xBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Doc+Brown+Explains+Alternative+Time&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003#id=6&vid=441a5301548d8cf3e68fb99a7e6313ee&action=view
They both are kinda the same but not. One is in a different reality all together, the other was caused by just time travel. And the events changed afterwards.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Imagine someone bought a nice new PC. Her or she would open the box and would find lots of dough inside.
Its the same with the "new" Star Trek.
What? I don't follow, probably because that doesn't follow.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
It's head canon. The poster is comparing New Trek to easy bake ovens, that come with dough inside. The poster's head canon is much more true to the Star Trek IP than anything people who work on Star Trek movies have been doing.
Head Canon IS the real Star Trek.
#yourheadcanonmatters
The new movies are as much Star Trek as dough in a box with a shiny PC label on it.
You expect a PC inside because is says so on the label but you find dough inside.
Does this make any sense to you?
You're purposely skipping the part where the poster mentions that the new movies are about the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise ... Captain Kirk, Mister Spock, Bones, Scotty, the whole gang. On the NC 1701.
But hey, Real Trek Fans of the True Trek are far more like ...
... something, something, dough in a PC box.
#yourheadcanonmatters
Go back to 1987 and replace "JJ Franchise" with "Star Trek The Next Generation" and you'll know how a great many original Star Trek (TOS) fans felt after "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Naked Now" aired.
What? You're upset that the latest incarnation of Star Trek is bringing in new fans that like it, and feel that the show that ended 22 years ago (but was popular) is "What Star Trek is"? Hey, welcome to the full Star Trek fandom experience.
Bottom line: Yes, it's all "Star Trek" (although you yourself may prefer one particular version over the others.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Pretty much this. If you go in expecting a... whatever it's supposed to be called again (I think 'action movie' wasn't the whole thing), you'll find that it's decent enough as that. If you go in expecting Star Trek... not so much. The franchise started degenerating in some ways in Voyager (but still managed to be okay most of the time, despite its more glaring issues), really got at it in Enterprise (though the fourth season wasn't half-bad, TATV notwithstanding), and reached rock bottom in the Kelvin timeline.
Amusingly, STO has so far managed to do a decent job of smoothing out the rough edges despite being more constrained (kill, kill, kill!) than the series/movies it's smoothing out.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But instead, compare like to like. Film to film.
TMP: 2 hours of special effects, aesthetics that are nothing like TOS, and a rehashed, worse, plot from an old TOS episode.
TWoK: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Spock's death and because it featured a bad guy from TOS.
TSfS: An enormous cop out on the emotional weight of the last film, Enterprise destruction TRIBBLE, and The Genesis Device, the single stupidest, overpowered technobabble bollocks to ever grace ST, Voyagers reset button and Red Matter come nowhere close to this piece of humongus OPnes.
TVH: A comedy with Whales.
TFF: Continuity, what continuity. You want you bad Trek film? Here it is, not even any action or lense flares to distract you.
TUC: Basic action film with an ongoing plot from TOS all tied up.
GEN: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to SKirk and Picard appearing together.
FC: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Borg 'splosions and because it featured a bad guy race from TNG.
INS: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to... nothing really. I almost forget it existed.
NEM: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Data's death and because it featured a bad guy race from TNG.
09: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to completely reigniting the franchise and opening the ST universe up to a whole new generation death and because it featured a bad guy race from TNG.
ID: A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to Kirk's (temporary) death and because it featured a bad guy from TOS.
BYD: I'm going to go out on a limb and guess on...
...A basic action packed revenge plot with an insane villain. Only memorable due to X and because it featured a bad guy from X.
I can see why TAR is looking so un-Trek to people, I mean it's not even as thought it can compare to the cinematic masterpieces that preceded it.
I do think this 'True Trek'TM only exists inside peoples heads.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
ST II-IV - are one overarching plot, a continuity in itself. While the basic plots are not brilliant the movies' strength is the chemistry between the protagonists which builds upon the show the characters are from. There is a reason the three protagonists are great together. What happens when you take the plot but remove the chemistry between the protagonists is... 09 and ID.
ST V - hard to defend it. Typical Star Trek movie, completely decoupled from any continuity, introduces elements never heard of before, never seen again and features a minimalist plot but at least some good character moments (I remember Bones' glimpse into his past being a rather strong moment, but it's been a while. Again, character chemistry going back to TOS).
ST VI - A all around "Trek" movie with a moral plot, character moments and a emotional fanfare, sending the heroes into retirement.
Now, the TNG movies technically also are based ona show, but in all of them the protagonists were so weirdly rewritten that it doesn't matter. What stays are actors pushed into action movies that were not meant to play action movies with continuity damaging plots and unmemorable villians - just like the new movies.
"True Trek" is a inconclusive term to use. But I think it refers to the notion of using the stage it has available to make overall positive statements about humanities' future. The TNG movies and the new movies don't really go there. They're movies for movie goers, if that makes sense...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It's not helped by the fact they feel like parodies of TOS Trek, rather than modernising it (like was done in with the TMP-era movies).
That said, they're still better than a not so insignificant portion of TV Trek and I'd take the first JJ-Trek movie over Insurrection and Generations easily.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Are you still claiming that red matter theory is a science fact?
That sounds an awful lot like the TV show and first several movies if you ask me. It's a re imagining of an old IP and an exploration into what could have been had the technology been there when they started. Someone took something iconic, made it new again, and put it on screen for all to enjoy. Many fans did not, but you cannot deny that the new movies encouraged a new generation of Star Trek fans.
If that's not Star Trek, I don't know what is.
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
From the amount of people who keep saying that they are objectively bad movies, you'd think ID was the new Battlefield Earth.
They're not cinematic masterpieces, but they aren't terrible.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
[/quote] Almost nothing in Star Trek is science fact. That's why it's called science fiction.[/quote]
Yes, but there are legions of nerds dedicated to making it so!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I also find it odd that no additional federation ships were sent to investigate why a Federation vessel was firing on another federation vessel, when both ships were in earth orbit.
Also, the Enterprise is always the only ship in the sector in every ST film.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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See the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings movies. The parties needed several months to travel from point A to point B, but the movies are all "let's go there" *bing* "okay, we're here" and of course they never discuss substantial stuff during the long journeys since the audience cannot miss sensitive talks. A movie is a very bad medium to depict lengthy journeys.
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