yeah, except MANY different encyclopedias have been written to cover every detail...except not a single one is canon because only stuff seen onscreen is - CBS royally shot themselves in the foot by letting what's her name say those words...if anyone in that company is intelligent and has the power to do so, they'd recant that definition and create a new canon policy, one which includes their officially-published encyclopedias, and also say that any technical data concering ships or technology that contradicts something shown onscreen overrides it - so they can set a single length for every problem ship and none of these arguments will be happening anymore
Actually.... "what's her name" IS the person who decides that. And given your disdain for what she's done so far.... if she did you'd probably disavow it as TRIBBLE. Which is probably why they haven't bothered.
I suppose that would be ideal. I still have my 1994 encyclopedia. Although it would help if screenwriters and directors could be bothered to put a bit more work into making things consistent. So we didn't end up with stuff like the K'Vort/B'rel scaling issue, 80 deck tall Enterprise in ST V or this particular mess we are having around the Kelvin.
I think the main problem is that there isn't some sort of 'internal bible' of rules that are followed. I think there used to be, at least for the shows, but It often seems to have been ignored rampantly in favor of 'whatever will make a good action scene' in many of the movies.
Fans or encyclopedia writers ideally shouldn't have to cover for the mistakes of lazy screenwriters and directors. That doesn't fly for plot holes/contrivances, IMO free passes shouldn't be handed out for when they decide to **** with continuity for a dumb action scene. changing deflector dishes to act like jet engines (STID), putting random bottomless pit on the bottom of the Ent E (Nemesis) etc.
Thing is... it's easy to SAY that, but when you actually try to make and use one... it's not that easy. The reference book will need to be updated every time anyone writes ANY thing. Which is why it doesn't happen. maintaining the database would take as much time as scriptwriting. Short version: it sounds cool but it's a lot more work.
What were you lot originally arguing over? the length of the KT Enterprise ?
No that was a few threads ago. It's ~360m in case you wanted to see the conclusion we all agreed upon after a stimulating debate.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Personal preference does not matter, the word of the franchise owner does, you go buy the franchise you can say it's whatever you want, until then the final word has already been given.
If they did their job right,
Yeah... by whose standards? clearly they have their own standard, which does not include writing an encyclopedia to cover every detail.
In this case, its like they don't have standards. So they are free to do as they wish. And then try to ram it down your throat. As to make you believe it belongs in any part of Canon they desire. This is the issue most people have with consistency when it comes to shows, etc. Its like they don't care and hope the audience will accept it. I have actually quit watching shows cause of this, or the sequels of movies. This is why I don't watch the JJ Spoof Trek. It don't match up to what they trying to show.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Thing is... it's easy to SAY that, but when you actually try to make and use one... it's not that easy. The reference book will need to be updated every time anyone writes ANY thing. Which is why it doesn't happen. maintaining the database would take as much time as scriptwriting. Short version: it sounds cool but it's a lot more work.
I have the one they did when First Contact came out. So it has that in it. I do agree it would be hard to keep updating it, due to they keep changing stuff on screen to fit their story, action scene, lens flare, etc. Its due to lack of consistency and "no real standard" to kinda keep it all on track.
Main thing I was after in the book was the ships drawings and some other things. As back in high school I was writing some of my own Star Trek adventures. I was the Capt, and my good friends was part of my crew. With our own adventures. So I used it and the shows/movies as a starting point. Or to tie into some of it.
To hear they coming out with a new book, that is good. I will be sure to buy it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
What were you lot originally arguing over? the length of the KT Enterprise ?
I think it was originally a dispute of whose head canon version of canon is most important. Now they're quibbling over the size of the bolts in the deckplates or something....
Mine of course, if you argue against me, your marmite privileges will be revoked.
My Browser showed 141 New Posts to this Thread. I went to the end to reset it. Canonheads still roiling over the size of the bloody ship!!! I have chosen wisely.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I have actually quit watching shows cause of this, or the sequels of movies. This is why I don't watch the JJ Spoof Trek. It don't match up to what they trying to show.
I have actually quit watching shows cause of this, or the sequels of movies. This is why I don't watch the JJ Spoof Trek. It don't match up to what they trying to show.
You quit watching the shows?
The absence of a 'the' indicates that he's not talking about Star Trek in particular.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Thing is... it's easy to SAY that, but when you actually try to make and use one... it's not that easy. The reference book will need to be updated every time anyone writes ANY thing. Which is why it doesn't happen. maintaining the database would take as much time as scriptwriting. Short version: it sounds cool but it's a lot more work.
I have the one they did when First Contact came out. So it has that in it. I do agree it would be hard to keep updating it, due to they keep changing stuff on screen to fit their story, action scene, lens flare, etc. Its due to lack of consistency and "no real standard" to kinda keep it all on track.
Main thing I was after in the book was the ships drawings and some other things. As back in high school I was writing some of my own Star Trek adventures. I was the Capt, and my good friends was part of my crew. With our own adventures. So I used it and the shows/movies as a starting point. Or to tie into some of it.
To hear they coming out with a new book, that is good. I will be sure to buy it.
Thing is... to actually satisfy the canon junkies it'd have to be written to keep track of things that the writers see as minor plot points not worthy of consideration. Such as the specific number of decks in the turbolift shaft, or the number of bolts holding up the dedication plaque....
I have actually quit watching shows cause of this, or the sequels of movies. This is why I don't watch the JJ Spoof Trek. It don't match up to what they trying to show.
You quit watching the shows?
The absence of a 'the' indicates that he's not talking about Star Trek in particular.
He talks about movies and sequels too. And this is a Star Trek forum related to Star Trek. What other franchises out there have tv shows, movies and sequels?
Star Wars if you count Rebels and Clone Wars as TV shows.
Justice League? If you count Arrow and Flash which are decidedly separate from the films.
Avengers and SHIELD? Kind of.
Veronica Mars, but it didn't get a movie sequel.
Buffy never got movies.
Firefly, but again, no sequel.
Stargate? Kind of?
Highlander?
X-Files! That might fit best if not Trek.
I dunno, it sure sounds like Star Trek is being referenced here.
Also, it's not stated that 'shows' and 'sequels of movies' are part of the same franchises. It sounds as if he's given up on several TV shows and several movie series, not (necessarily) part of the same franchise.
Edit: It basically sounds as if he's saying that he's dumped various other franchises because of the same issues that plague JJTrek.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Edit: It basically sounds as if he's saying that he's dumped various other franchises because of the same issues that plague JJTrek.
Not really seeing that. I mean the issues that plague the new Star Trek films seem to be really focused on the adherence of the films to some established continuity of the prior films and tv shows.
There are very very few properties out there which have the issue. Take Veronica Mars for example. It did get a movie (but no sequel). However the film adhered just fine to the prior continuity of the television shows because it just didn't have a ton of that stuff it needed to adhere to.
Another one that didn't make my list was Twin Peaks. But I'd never really consider that since it's so creator-driven that you can't seriously argue that Twin Peaks "canon" was messed with since it's Lynch involved and his vision IS Twin Peaks, whether you like it or not.
The only properties that really run into this problem are comic book related, Star Wars, Star Trek and I'm going to say my best guess is still X-Files. That's about it. They're the only ones that have a fanbase dedicated to what came before. They're the only ones that spend much time establishing any level of authenticity in that history (for example, no one's going to freak out that Veronica Mars changes some details of stuff in the show, but people on the internet will go ballistic if the Human Torch isn't blond haired and blue eyed), And they're the only ones that have TV shows, Movies and all sorts of other media in between.
Unless I'm missing something? Like I guess one could make a strong case for soap operas having rabid fans who get bent when the ongoing continuity of those decades long storylines are messed with?
I have actually quit watching shows cause of this, or the sequels of movies. This is why I don't watch the JJ Spoof Trek. It don't match up to what they trying to show.
You quit watching the shows?
So far they had not made a TV show or Movie for Star Trek since Enterprise and Nemesis. So until I can see the new Star Trek show coming out on TV or internet for free. I will see it. Cause I refuse to pay twice for it.
I was mostly talking about other shows or movies. I started watching 1 show. Season 2 came out, and they changed the entire cast, but kept the names. They wanted to do that to show more diversity, they actually said that! So talk about a head spin, the character changed up season to season! If your wondering it was The Bible Series that came out. Part 1 and Part 2.
Another was a mini comic series of like 12 books. They actually changed up the characters looks half way through. It went from really good details to what the ?? happened. So I didn't buy the rest of the series. Another head spin!
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Edit: It basically sounds as if he's saying that he's dumped various other franchises because of the same issues that plague JJTrek.
Not really seeing that. I mean the issues that plague the new Star Trek films seem to be really focused on the adherence of the films to some established continuity of the prior films and tv shows.
There are very very few properties out there which have the issue.
How many of them are buried under 50 cubic miles of "canon"?
Edit: It basically sounds as if he's saying that he's dumped various other franchises because of the same issues that plague JJTrek.
Not really seeing that. I mean the issues that plague the new Star Trek films seem to be really focused on the adherence of the films to some established continuity of the prior films and tv shows.
There are very very few properties out there which have the issue.
How many of them are buried under 50 cubic miles of "canon"?
Only Star Trek, Star Wars, and comic book properties.
Which brings us a full 360 degrees right back around to why Bad Robot did what they did. They freed up the films to not have to be tied down to canon. They did the same with Force Awakens. It helps promote creativity for writers and producers. It usually ticks off hardcore fans, but as we all know, those fans still go see the new movie anyways. Complaining the whole time, but forking over the dollars no matter what.
It's why the hatred of Abrams is so irrational on these forums. It's an alternate universe. It was done so that the films could do its own thing and free up the potential to create new things while not being buried under the weight of canon. It's why it doesn't matter if there's vapor trails from impulse engines or nacelles. It's why the size difference between one Constitution class vessel from 1968 and another Constitution class vessel from 2009 isn't an issue.
But you already know this.
Other people in this thread though, may have issues accepting that properties grown and evolve and large teams of creators do indeed leave their mark and stamp on things, whether it's Nicky Meyer taking the franchise into directions Roddenberry had problems with, or Roberto Orci deciding that the social climate was ripe for a moral tale about terrorism and big government military complex intervention as a relevant theme for a Star Trek story hung up on a retelling of Space Seed and mushed into the bits and pieces of a rushed retcon of how a different universe would play out the end of TWOK.
Still, Star Trek is Star Trek. And those movies are about as Star Trek as it gets in 2016.
Edit: It basically sounds as if he's saying that he's dumped various other franchises because of the same issues that plague JJTrek.
Not really seeing that. I mean the issues that plague the new Star Trek films seem to be really focused on the adherence of the films to some established continuity of the prior films and tv shows.
There are very very few properties out there which have the issue.
How many of them are buried under 50 cubic miles of "canon"?
Only Star Trek, Star Wars, and comic book properties.
Which brings us a full 360 degrees right back around to why Bad Robot did what they did. They freed up the films to not have to be tied down to canon. They did the same with Force Awakens. It helps promote creativity for writers and producers. It usually ticks off hardcore fans, but as we all know, those fans still go see the new movie anyways. Complaining the whole time, but forking over the dollars no matter what.
It's why the hatred of Abrams is so irrational on these forums. It's an alternate universe. It was done so that the films could do its own thing and free up the potential to create new things while not being buried under the weight of canon. It's why it doesn't matter if there's vapor trails from impulse engines or nacelles. It's why the size difference between one Constitution class vessel from 1968 and another Constitution class vessel from 2009 isn't an issue.
But you already know this.
Other people in this thread though, may have issues accepting that properties grown and evolve and large teams of creators do indeed leave their mark and stamp on things, whether it's Nicky Meyer taking the franchise into directions Roddenberry had problems with, or Roberto Orci deciding that the social climate was ripe for a moral tale about terrorism and big government military complex intervention as a relevant theme for a Star Trek story hung up on a retelling of Space Seed and mushed into the bits and pieces of a rushed retcon of how a different universe would play out the end of TWOK.
Still, Star Trek is Star Trek. And those movies are about as Star Trek as it gets in 2016.
Hell most people couldn't even handle how militaristic Star Fleet got during DS9. Or the fact something like Section 31 could be even contemplated.
I also love how people have irrational hatred for Janeway, when Sisko did things WAY worse and he's APPLAUDED for it. Star Trek fans are some of the most hyper critical people I've ever seen.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I didn't mind DS9 during the Dominion War, actually that is what got me to watch it again! Since before that, the series was kinda meh.
I didn't mind what Janeway did, I like the entire Voyager series. Until they kinda downgraded the Borg. That kinda made a mess out of it. It took away the fear and oh TRIBBLE!
The new Star Wars I like it until they did the stupid planet super weapon thing. That could have been deleted from the movie and still would been good. With that in there, it really made a stupid part in it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Meh, I was dragged to the first two of the Jar Jar Trek films, made sure those responsible were as miserable as I was by pointing out all the problems and errors and mistakes that got under my skin (not the least of which being the revamped characters ages. People aren't born years earlier just because someone went back in time).
My official stance on the new films is that I'm glad they brought in money and new fans to keep the franchise alive. I just have find the movies to be horrible and don't care to have anything to do with them in game. I fully plan on skipping those missions that have anything to do with it.
Only thing I am having trouble with is the Vengeance, my main toon is Fed, and I would love to find a way to harvest that Mastery Trait for my T6 Bug Ship without having to soil my toons in doing so. Would be nice if Feds could get it without having to get the ship like KDF and Rom's do....WOW, never thought the day would come that I would be jealous of the KDF or Rom's as a Fed LOL
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
I have actually quit watching shows cause of this, or the sequels of movies. This is why I don't watch the JJ Spoof Trek. It don't match up to what they trying to show.
You quit watching the shows?
So far they had not made a TV show or Movie for Star Trek since Enterprise and Nemesis. So until I can see the new Star Trek show coming out on TV or internet for free. I will see it. Cause I refuse to pay twice for it.
I was mostly talking about other shows or movies. I started watching 1 show. Season 2 came out, and they changed the entire cast, but kept the names. They wanted to do that to show more diversity, they actually said that! So talk about a head spin, the character changed up season to season! If your wondering it was The Bible Series that came out. Part 1 and Part 2.
Another was a mini comic series of like 12 books. They actually changed up the characters looks half way through. It went from really good details to what the ?? happened. So I didn't buy the rest of the series. Another head spin!
Uh, actually there is another series since Enterprise, its just not free to watch.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
I didn't mind DS9 during the Dominion War, actually that is what got me to watch it again! Since before that, the series was kinda meh.
I didn't mind what Janeway did, I like the entire Voyager series. Until they kinda downgraded the Borg. That kinda made a mess out of it. It took away the fear and oh ****!
I honestly thought it made the Borg scarier in many ways. Previously they had been difficult to fight, but their behavior was so mindless that they weren't really menacing.
Some people often fail to see that the Kelvin Timeline is directed towards the new generation of Trekkies, just because you or other people grew up with TOS, TNG, DS9 ENT and not Kelvin Timeline, doesn't mean that it is not trek.
Simoly put: it may not be your trek, but it's my Trek.
but that's just it, it's NOT your trek, it's MY trek.
the first movie at least, was nothing more than a collection of ToS, TNG, and Enterprise quotes,wrapped around a decent Sci-Fi story base and flashy new visuals.
it doesn't fit the banner of Trek at all. it's just a shameless blockbuster lineup. I'd be fine with all of this if it were original, with homages to the old Trek, but put into TV form. not cheap in and out blockbuster movies.
Those old shows are just that. If you want to watch re-runs for the rest of your life up to you.
Time passes by and new things come up. I welcome change and love anything that is named "Trek" including what you called the new JJ movies. He doesn't own the "Trek" naming ...he just happens to be associated with it these days...50 years from now if the Trek culture still alive Im very sure there will be new producers, writers and artists. It is a natural life cycle far beyond that a mere spec in time like it is now with JJ.
I do hope this saga continues for many more decades to come and with more dedicated people than will bring these shows to a much better level than was intended originally.
Personal preference does not matter, the word of the franchise owner does, you go buy the franchise you can say it's whatever you want, until then the final word has already been given.
And what they say and show contradicts itself, leaving the fans to try and reconcile them. Hence the debate. We have several pages of that by now if you feel like meaningfully contributing to it. But I'm not holding my breath based off that flippant reply.
Oh please - EVERY incarnation of Star Trek has contradicted itself MANY TIMES. If anything, that the JJ Verse has contradictions within itself shows it to be "Star Trek" in that aspect too.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
To the Subject question - because they are. What answer would you like - 42?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
How many people would have made this same, silly argument when TNG first premiered?
DS9 comes along, but can something be Star Trek if the premise is that you are on an immobile space station?
Voyager? Ratings are bad, let's sex it up with a borg in a catsuit. Because everything we saw of Borgs up to then looked like 7 of 9, right?
So are the new Trek movies "real" Star Trek? Absolutely.
And if you think that only TNG or whatever is "real" then feel free to watch those reruns and leave the rest of us alone.
Me? I prefer TOS (and the movies through VI) and the new films, but I am not going to tell someone that is a TNG fan that they are wrong.
Anyone trying to tell any fan of any official Trek, though, be it TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, the new films, novels, whatever, that their Trek isn't "real" or "right", though?
They are wrong.
That guy cosplaying as a K-Verse Klingon? That one as a TOS Klingon? They are every bit as much a Trek fan as that guy that is dressed like a movie/TNG Klingon.
And it doesn't matter if you can quote lines from every episode of whatever series/movie and list a hundred guest stars and their roles and that guy in the K-Verse Captain shirt doesn't even know who plays the K-Verse Kirk.
They are still fans, it's still Trek, and I would think that a group that not so long ago would have been complaining about being marginalized; That a group that claims to be a fan of a show that is supposed to have a positive message about a future where people have moved beyond so many of today's societal ills, would try to be more accepting of people with whom they have a built-in common core interest.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
No that was a few threads ago. It's ~360m in case you wanted to see the conclusion we all agreed upon after a stimulating debate.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
At 0:53 of that clip is where R2-D2 fly's by the bottom left of the view screen ...
In this case, its like they don't have standards. So they are free to do as they wish. And then try to ram it down your throat. As to make you believe it belongs in any part of Canon they desire. This is the issue most people have with consistency when it comes to shows, etc. Its like they don't care and hope the audience will accept it. I have actually quit watching shows cause of this, or the sequels of movies. This is why I don't watch the JJ Spoof Trek. It don't match up to what they trying to show.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I have the one they did when First Contact came out. So it has that in it. I do agree it would be hard to keep updating it, due to they keep changing stuff on screen to fit their story, action scene, lens flare, etc. Its due to lack of consistency and "no real standard" to kinda keep it all on track.
Main thing I was after in the book was the ships drawings and some other things. As back in high school I was writing some of my own Star Trek adventures. I was the Capt, and my good friends was part of my crew. With our own adventures. So I used it and the shows/movies as a starting point. Or to tie into some of it.
To hear they coming out with a new book, that is good. I will be sure to buy it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Mine of course, if you argue against me, your marmite privileges will be revoked.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You quit watching the shows?
The absence of a 'the' indicates that he's not talking about Star Trek in particular.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My character Tsin'xing
He talks about movies and sequels too. And this is a Star Trek forum related to Star Trek. What other franchises out there have tv shows, movies and sequels?
Star Wars if you count Rebels and Clone Wars as TV shows.
Justice League? If you count Arrow and Flash which are decidedly separate from the films.
Avengers and SHIELD? Kind of.
Veronica Mars, but it didn't get a movie sequel.
Buffy never got movies.
Firefly, but again, no sequel.
Stargate? Kind of?
Highlander?
X-Files! That might fit best if not Trek.
I dunno, it sure sounds like Star Trek is being referenced here.
Edit: It basically sounds as if he's saying that he's dumped various other franchises because of the same issues that plague JJTrek.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
But as I stated, it didn't get a movie sequel.
Not really seeing that. I mean the issues that plague the new Star Trek films seem to be really focused on the adherence of the films to some established continuity of the prior films and tv shows.
There are very very few properties out there which have the issue. Take Veronica Mars for example. It did get a movie (but no sequel). However the film adhered just fine to the prior continuity of the television shows because it just didn't have a ton of that stuff it needed to adhere to.
Another one that didn't make my list was Twin Peaks. But I'd never really consider that since it's so creator-driven that you can't seriously argue that Twin Peaks "canon" was messed with since it's Lynch involved and his vision IS Twin Peaks, whether you like it or not.
The only properties that really run into this problem are comic book related, Star Wars, Star Trek and I'm going to say my best guess is still X-Files. That's about it. They're the only ones that have a fanbase dedicated to what came before. They're the only ones that spend much time establishing any level of authenticity in that history (for example, no one's going to freak out that Veronica Mars changes some details of stuff in the show, but people on the internet will go ballistic if the Human Torch isn't blond haired and blue eyed), And they're the only ones that have TV shows, Movies and all sorts of other media in between.
Unless I'm missing something? Like I guess one could make a strong case for soap operas having rabid fans who get bent when the ongoing continuity of those decades long storylines are messed with?
So far they had not made a TV show or Movie for Star Trek since Enterprise and Nemesis. So until I can see the new Star Trek show coming out on TV or internet for free. I will see it. Cause I refuse to pay twice for it.
I was mostly talking about other shows or movies. I started watching 1 show. Season 2 came out, and they changed the entire cast, but kept the names. They wanted to do that to show more diversity, they actually said that! So talk about a head spin, the character changed up season to season! If your wondering it was The Bible Series that came out. Part 1 and Part 2.
Another was a mini comic series of like 12 books. They actually changed up the characters looks half way through. It went from really good details to what the ?? happened. So I didn't buy the rest of the series. Another head spin!
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
My character Tsin'xing
Scorpion King, was "The Rock" then went to another actor to play him.
The Punisher. They changed the character and the story between the 2 movies!
This is why I don't watch the sequels and shows when they do this.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Only Star Trek, Star Wars, and comic book properties.
Which brings us a full 360 degrees right back around to why Bad Robot did what they did. They freed up the films to not have to be tied down to canon. They did the same with Force Awakens. It helps promote creativity for writers and producers. It usually ticks off hardcore fans, but as we all know, those fans still go see the new movie anyways. Complaining the whole time, but forking over the dollars no matter what.
It's why the hatred of Abrams is so irrational on these forums. It's an alternate universe. It was done so that the films could do its own thing and free up the potential to create new things while not being buried under the weight of canon. It's why it doesn't matter if there's vapor trails from impulse engines or nacelles. It's why the size difference between one Constitution class vessel from 1968 and another Constitution class vessel from 2009 isn't an issue.
But you already know this.
Other people in this thread though, may have issues accepting that properties grown and evolve and large teams of creators do indeed leave their mark and stamp on things, whether it's Nicky Meyer taking the franchise into directions Roddenberry had problems with, or Roberto Orci deciding that the social climate was ripe for a moral tale about terrorism and big government military complex intervention as a relevant theme for a Star Trek story hung up on a retelling of Space Seed and mushed into the bits and pieces of a rushed retcon of how a different universe would play out the end of TWOK.
Still, Star Trek is Star Trek. And those movies are about as Star Trek as it gets in 2016.
Hell most people couldn't even handle how militaristic Star Fleet got during DS9. Or the fact something like Section 31 could be even contemplated.
I also love how people have irrational hatred for Janeway, when Sisko did things WAY worse and he's APPLAUDED for it. Star Trek fans are some of the most hyper critical people I've ever seen.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I didn't mind what Janeway did, I like the entire Voyager series. Until they kinda downgraded the Borg. That kinda made a mess out of it. It took away the fear and oh TRIBBLE!
The new Star Wars I like it until they did the stupid planet super weapon thing. That could have been deleted from the movie and still would been good. With that in there, it really made a stupid part in it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
My official stance on the new films is that I'm glad they brought in money and new fans to keep the franchise alive. I just have find the movies to be horrible and don't care to have anything to do with them in game. I fully plan on skipping those missions that have anything to do with it.
Only thing I am having trouble with is the Vengeance, my main toon is Fed, and I would love to find a way to harvest that Mastery Trait for my T6 Bug Ship without having to soil my toons in doing so. Would be nice if Feds could get it without having to get the ship like KDF and Rom's do....WOW, never thought the day would come that I would be jealous of the KDF or Rom's as a Fed LOL
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Uh, actually there is another series since Enterprise, its just not free to watch.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
My character Tsin'xing
Those old shows are just that. If you want to watch re-runs for the rest of your life up to you.
Time passes by and new things come up. I welcome change and love anything that is named "Trek" including what you called the new JJ movies. He doesn't own the "Trek" naming ...he just happens to be associated with it these days...50 years from now if the Trek culture still alive Im very sure there will be new producers, writers and artists. It is a natural life cycle far beyond that a mere spec in time like it is now with JJ.
I do hope this saga continues for many more decades to come and with more dedicated people than will bring these shows to a much better level than was intended originally.
Original STO beta tester.
Oh please - EVERY incarnation of Star Trek has contradicted itself MANY TIMES. If anything, that the JJ Verse has contradictions within itself shows it to be "Star Trek" in that aspect too.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
DS9 comes along, but can something be Star Trek if the premise is that you are on an immobile space station?
Voyager? Ratings are bad, let's sex it up with a borg in a catsuit. Because everything we saw of Borgs up to then looked like 7 of 9, right?
So are the new Trek movies "real" Star Trek? Absolutely.
And if you think that only TNG or whatever is "real" then feel free to watch those reruns and leave the rest of us alone.
Me? I prefer TOS (and the movies through VI) and the new films, but I am not going to tell someone that is a TNG fan that they are wrong.
Anyone trying to tell any fan of any official Trek, though, be it TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, the new films, novels, whatever, that their Trek isn't "real" or "right", though?
They are wrong.
That guy cosplaying as a K-Verse Klingon? That one as a TOS Klingon? They are every bit as much a Trek fan as that guy that is dressed like a movie/TNG Klingon.
And it doesn't matter if you can quote lines from every episode of whatever series/movie and list a hundred guest stars and their roles and that guy in the K-Verse Captain shirt doesn't even know who plays the K-Verse Kirk.
They are still fans, it's still Trek, and I would think that a group that not so long ago would have been complaining about being marginalized; That a group that claims to be a fan of a show that is supposed to have a positive message about a future where people have moved beyond so many of today's societal ills, would try to be more accepting of people with whom they have a built-in common core interest.