Why do so many people believe the JJ Trek Movies are deserving of being called Trek?

daedalus304

I'm going to start this by saying, I loved the movies, I loved every minute of the movies.

but I hate that they are now becoming the "prefered" Star Trek Go to's. So many people are trying to say this collection of fanservice nudges wrapped around a good Sci-Fi base story, is Deserving of being called Star Trek.

I guarantee you all, if Nimoy wasn't in the first movie, it'd have been thrown out the window and Into Darkness would never have been made. But that's just it, the whole basis, as far as I can see, for people accepting the JJ movies as Star Trek, is the inclusion and participation of Nimoy, if Nimoy wasn't involved, people would have called them out for trying too hard to pretend. Most people can't even give me a real reason why the movies (apart from their names and branding) actually can be called Star Trek.

they are big, blustering, over produced Sci-Fi action movies. Their writing is not that special, the actors are WAY too young looking to be taken seriously as senior bridge crew. We hear of their exploits in secondary sources like comics, fai....Horribly Failed video games, etc. but even in those, there is nothing that resembles Star Trek. there is no great exploration, there is fighting, more fighting, and oh yes, sexy people.

no one so far, has given me any real reason as to why these movies could make claim to the "Star Trek" honor. The first movie had music from ToS and TMP, it had References from Enterprise, it showed Tribbles, It just took a BUNCH of quotes, outside of their original context, and slapped them lazily in so we'd believe they're Star Treky.

I get, that the JJ franchise is going to bring this game some money, and some...interesting ships to say the least. but this has caused more of a divide than most people care to admit, one side claims the other is too small, one claims the other is salty. it's gotten to the point that I'm positive this will not end well. and to hear, the developers might be deciding soon to end the Prime universe continuation, in favor of supporting the "kelvin" universe, makes me weep for the love I have for this game. I may be bitter at som....mos....all but a few of their decisions, and wish they'd eventually be bought out again, to someone far more considerate of the IP. but I always loved this game, I've been here since it's conception, I've got too many characters, and I love the game dearly...but to think the Kelvin line might supplant the Prime line.....I can't fathom the sheer devastation it would cause to fans like me.

comrademoco

Same can be said toward any of the orginal shows.

Some people often fail to see that the Kelvin Timeline is directed towards the new generation of Trekkies, just because you or other people grew up with TOS, TNG, DS9 ENT and not Kelvin Timeline, doesn't mean that it is not trek.

Simply put: it may not be your trek, but it's my Trek.

daedalus304

comrademoco wrote: »

Same can be said toward any of the orginal shows.

Some people often fail to see that the Kelvin Timeline is directed towards the new generation of Trekkies, just because you or other people grew up with TOS, TNG, DS9 ENT and not Kelvin Timeline, doesn't mean that it is not trek.

Simoly put: it may not be your trek, but it's my Trek.

but that's just it, it's NOT your trek, it's MY trek.

the first movie at least, was nothing more than a collection of ToS, TNG, and Enterprise quotes,wrapped around a decent Sci-Fi story base and flashy new visuals.

it doesn't fit the banner of Trek at all. it's just a shameless blockbuster lineup. I'd be fine with all of this if it were original, with homages to the old Trek, but put into TV form. not cheap in and out blockbuster movies.

comrademoco

Why would it have to fit? It's a new generation of Trek for new Trekkies, it's not for old Trekkies.

artan42

I know. Voyager was a lazy rehash of TNG with flat characters and rebooted plots and has no place being called Trek...

...Oh, you're moaning about a different version of Trek. One that nobody is either forcing your play or to watch?

IDIC? ​​

darpendragon

Just like how when TNG was first being made, people complained that it was not real Star Trek without Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Then when it came out everyone loved it.

Simply put, it is new Star Trek for a new generation.

asuran14

An that is just it there is no "My trek" or "your trek" there is just trek. Just because even a fan-base dislikes the new direction choices does not make it trek or not. Why bury these series behind the notion that only the original version is what determines if it is or not trek (or transformer, or whatever else), and so stifle creativity for better or worse in the series. I always determine a new rendition of a series on it's own merits, as not every character or ship an set of events in the setting would play out like the other series did. I would love to see a series that is based an done from the perspective of the Klingon or Romulan factions seeing things long term from their side an even deeper looks into their own cultures, while most would look at me as wanting a series that would not be seen as trek at that point since trek to them is from the fed side always.

thunderfoot

Why do so many feel the need to tell the rest of us they like the new films and then proceed to rip them to shreds?

Why do so many people feel the need to try and make others prefer one over the other?

Why do so many alleged fans of Star Trek go out of their way to remind all of us (Again! For the 5,000th time!) how much they hate the films?

I grew up with TOS. I am someone who likes all of Star Trek. At 54y.o. I can remember the time between the cancellation of TOS and TAS and the release ST:TMP. When there was no new Star Trek at all. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Bupkiss.

Now we have an embarrassment of riches and are about to get more. A great many people who claim to be Star Trek fans act like spoiled children do when told they have to eat all their vegetables before they can get desert. They want the rest of us to view Star Trek as their domain and they want to be the ones who decide what is and is not Star Trek for the rest of us.

The films are supposed to bring new fans into this wondrous thing we call Star Trek. Yet when they attempt to join us, they meet with a vocal minority which rejects their entry point. And by extention, them. So why should they stay around? When what they see first is a very small group of very vocal old timers who are constantly shouting 'You kids get outta my Star Trek!' If people want to return to a time when there is no new Star Trek at all, keep shouting this. Careful what you wish for. You might fool around and get it.

legendarylycan

and nobody has asked the most important question...why has this type of thread not been added to the FCT yet, @askray ?​​

daveyny

thunderfoot006 wrote: »

Why do so many feel the need to tell the rest of us they like the new films and then proceed to rip them to shreds?

Why do so many people feel the need to try and make others prefer one over the other?

Why do so many alleged fans of Star Trek go out of their way to remind all of us (Again! For the 5,000th time!) how much they hate the films?

I grew up with TOS. I am someone who likes all of Star Trek. At 54y.o. I can remember the time between the cancellation of TOS and TAS and the release ST:TMP. When there was no new Star Trek at all. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Bupkiss.

Now we have an embarrassment of riches and are about to get more. A great many people who claim to be Star Trek fans act like spoiled children do when told they have to eat all their vegetables before they can get desert. They want the rest of us to view Star Trek as their domain and they want to be the ones who decide what is and is not Star Trek for the rest of us.

The films are supposed to bring new fans into this wondrous thing we call Star Trek. Yet when they attempt to join us, they meet with a vocal minority which rejects their entry point. And by extention, them. So why should they stay around? When what they see first is a very small group of very vocal old timers who are constantly shouting 'You kids get outta my Star Trek!' If people want to return to a time when there is no new Star Trek at all, keep shouting this. Careful what you wish for. You may **** up and get it.

This Trek Minion endorses the above ...

sinn74

I don't mind JJTrek. I don't find it spectacular, but I don't think it horrendous.

TOS is mostly painful to watch (for me) until "Wrath of Khan" era.

hypl

daedalus304 wrote: »

and to hear, the developers might be deciding soon to end the Prime universe continuation, in favor of supporting the "kelvin" universe, makes me weep for the love I have for this game.

Where'd you hear this, zone chat? This is definitely NOT happening. They would have to make an entirely new game to do this. And it would be incredibly stupid to throw away 6 years of work.

It's just a lock box. People flipped out over the Undine ships being playable, then they were over it in a week or so.

nikeix

Why do I think the new movies are deserving of being called Star Trek? Because I had fun. Because the mantle of the essential character dynamics has been successfully passed on, and because while there are parts of both movies that make me want to claw my eyes out of my skull at the raw stupidity on display, I don't lie to myself that any previous incarnation of Star Trek did it better. Its not and has never been high literature no matter how fine a navel-gazer Picard was or how impassioned Kirk's rantings. As an exercise in science fiction Trek is baby food, not the filet mignon the haters act like is being sullied by a new chef.

To me it's not about wallowing in the depths. It's about celebrating the high points and both new movies had some very high points indeed. Not least of which was getting made at all after the horrible stewardship Trek endured. That and opening the door for more Small-screen episodes.

salazarraze

comrademoco wrote: »

Why would it have to fit? It's a new generation of Trek for new Trekkies, it's not for old Trekkies.

This is partly correct. In addition to wanting to appeal to younger viewers, the films are also designed to appeal to a wider range of potential viewers. Therefore, the "Trek Niche" must be minimized in favor of something with a lower common denominator.

originalspock

Common denominator is the key term. Star Trek was never about the common denominator. Just because someone wants to make a fan film about Star Trek which 09/STID are inherently fan films, because they are not really part of any universe of the originals. They are a temporal paradox that inherently doesn't exist. The only thing that actually happened is the hobus star. That's it. In another Universe Kirk is a girl robot singer.

smokebailey

To me, JJ trek is trek in name only. Just a bunch of action films with young cast, and stuff blowing up every minute, with some villain to fight.

reynoldsxd

daedalus304 wrote: »

I'm going to start this by saying, I loved the movies, I loved every minute of the movies.

but I hate that they are now becoming the "prefered" Star Trek Go to's. So many people are trying to say this collection of fanservice nudges wrapped around a good Sci-Fi base story, is Deserving of being called Star Trek.

I guarantee you all, if Nimoy wasn't in the first movie, it'd have been thrown out the window and Into Darkness would never have been made. But that's just it, the whole basis, as far as I can see, for people accepting the JJ movies as Star Trek, is the inclusion and participation of Nimoy, if Nimoy wasn't involved, people would have called them out for trying too hard to pretend. Most people can't even give me a real reason why the movies (apart from their names and branding) actually can be called Star Trek.

they are big, blustering, over produced Sci-Fi action movies. Their writing is not that special, the actors are WAY too young looking to be taken seriously as senior bridge crew. We hear of their exploits in secondary sources like comics, fai....Horribly Failed video games, etc. but even in those, there is nothing that resembles Star Trek. there is no great exploration, there is fighting, more fighting, and oh yes, sexy people.

no one so far, has given me any real reason as to why these movies could make claim to the "Star Trek" honor. The first movie had music from ToS and TMP, it had References from Enterprise, it showed Tribbles, It just took a BUNCH of quotes, outside of their original context, and slapped them lazily in so we'd believe they're Star Treky.

I get, that the JJ franchise is going to bring this game some money, and some...interesting ships to say the least. but this has caused more of a divide than most people care to admit, one side claims the other is too small, one claims the other is salty. it's gotten to the point that I'm positive this will not end well. and to hear, the developers might be deciding soon to end the Prime universe continuation, in favor of supporting the "kelvin" universe, makes me weep for the love I have for this game. I may be bitter at som....mos....all but a few of their decisions, and wish they'd eventually be bought out again, to someone far more considerate of the IP. but I always loved this game, I've been here since it's conception, I've got too many characters, and I love the game dearly...but to think the Kelvin line might supplant the Prime line.....I can't fathom the sheer devastation it would cause to fans like me.

wow. Way to create a non topic.

It's already established that the kelvin timelien isa separate universe.
Your canon is safe. You just get the opportunity to get a second canon alongside it so you can wax over about it for decades to come.

mustrumridcully0

Because it has Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Scotty, Sulu and Chekov aboard a ship with a recognizable shape. Also, it comes from the people that have the rights to make Star Trek movies. So it seems legit.

captsol

Why would people write a wall of text explaining how what they think is deserving of being called Trek is all that is deserving of being called Trek?

staq16

The "JJ Trek" movies use Star Trek imagery and background, even going as far as clearly explaining how they do/don't fit in with the original series. More importantly, the two films - in their limited timescale - do address key Trek themes. We get a surprisingly twisty timeline based explanation of why things are different to the TV series, and there are explicit continuity nods to ENTERPRISE (Admiral Archer's beagle and the model NX-01) and TNG (the background of Romulus and the Narada using Borg tech). So we've got some decently hard SF ideas. Plus some of the broader social themes that TOS/TNG liked; the dangers if militant isolationism, the need for exploration, the importance of rational teamwork.

I think that the JJ movies - and ENTERPRISE, which is my personal favourite - attract particular venom because they're seen as rewriting the history "established" in TOS, which to the more obsessive fan is a personal assault. IMO, even if you don't like them, they are no worse than the dafter episodes of TOS / TNG, to say nothing of some of the rot that's been published as comics and novels over the years.

Unfortunately, there is a streak in human nature that can't bear the idea that others think or like different things, even when it's materially unimportant. Couple that with the obsessive streak in Trek fandom, and it's a recipe for venom.

captsol

staq16 wrote: »

Unfortunately, there is a streak in human nature that can't bear the idea that others think or like different things, even when it's materially unimportant. Couple that with the obsessive streak in Trek fandom, and it's a recipe for venom.

The JJ movies - and ENTERPRISE, which is my personal favourite - attract particular venom because they're seen as rewriting the history "established" in TOS, which to the more obsessive fan is a personal assault. Actually, both took enormous pains to explain how and why they diverged and / or integrated, but hey - why let that get in the way of a good rant?

Personally, I don't see either as being worse than some of the dafter elements which appeared in the core series. One thing I personally dislike about the JJ movies is that they felt a retrograde step - wallowing in nostalgia rather than moving forwards - which runs counter to the forward-looking, generational approach that allowed Trek to run up to 2005. That doesn't mean I don't like other aspects, like the Klingon redesign for example.

Except they really aren't. It rewrites history from before TOS and just plays with things are the result of that. It's really just as relevant as any fan work which does similar things or any alternate universe novel. It doesn't claim to replace the original TOS so much as offer an alternative take on the same period.

Some people like it, some people don't, that's certainly within their rights. Constantly attacking those who do as has been seen on this forum and belittling them as not being 'true fans' for doing so does no one any good.

melineaaele

staq16 wrote: »

Unfortunately, there is a streak in human nature that can't bear the idea that others think or like different things, even when it's materially unimportant. Couple that with the obsessive streak in Trek fandom, and it's a recipe for venom.

The JJ movies - and ENTERPRISE, which is my personal favourite - attract particular venom because they're seen as rewriting the history "established" in TOS, which to the more obsessive fan is a personal assault. Actually, both took enormous pains to explain how and why they diverged and / or integrated, but hey - why let that get in the way of a good rant?

Personally, I don't see either as being worse than some of the dafter elements which appeared in the core series. One thing I personally dislike about the JJ movies is that they felt a retrograde step - wallowing in nostalgia rather than moving forwards - which runs counter to the forward-looking, generational approach that allowed Trek to run up to 2005. That doesn't mean I don't like other aspects, like the Klingon redesign for example.

Enterprise is by far the best of the TV series imo, it had a far better feel of exploring.. In some ways it reminded me of some of these WW2 submarine films. You know, a bunch of people stuck in a metal box in the middle of nowhere. I liked how the vulcans actually seemed like emotional people supressing it, the hints of supressed emotions etc

thekodanarmada

repetitiveepic wrote: »

The movie was called Star Trek.

lordsteve1

Jesus not another whiner on this forum.
Look....it's a Star Trek movie because the people who own the rights made it and say it is a Star Trek movie.

If you don't like its style, story, characters etc then fine but that won't change the fact it's still a Trek movie whether you like it or not.

The new movies are Trek for the modern age, better effects, bigger budgets, different audience with different expectations. They are no different to how TNG is quite a bit different to TOS Trek, they are just made in different styles and in different eras.

If you don't like one or the other that's fine, you're allowed to feel that way. But you must accept that the game of Star Trek Online will by its very nature and definition include elements from all sources of Star Trek.
If you really can't handle that then just don't play that particular content, or just leave the game.

Just please stop bitching on here about it.

bengahl

Because Star Trek in general, for whatever medium it's under, whatever era, timeline, series, and so on.. Will cater to the tastes of someone that isn't you it's like ice cream, everybody has their favourite flavour, and some don't like others.. just because folks don't like JJ Abram's stuff doesn't make it less Trek.. Consider this: JJ's crew has gotten their third movie out the door.. -third-

now i dunno about you, it's got a few decades of star trek to compare itself against, i don't think that's fair for anyone to hold it up against that monolithic thing.

For ALL the good or ill it holds..

People are gonna complain about the new series coming out early next year, too..
How i see things myself? Is it Trek? Or is it not? as i see it, Kelvin Timeline's got the potential to be it.

and honestly i remember hearing similar discussions roughly during DS9's latter seasons because of all the starship battles..

aaaand look where we are now. :P

baudl

I'm just glad that the JJ Trek gave the whole franchise new momentum...this game, the new series, books, etc.
It is not really relevant if some people don't like or think it is the best.
It keeps Trek relevant even if the writing is not what TNG writing was about...but then again it is not 1988 anymore and neither 1967.

tessaravejgan

Because IT IS TRIBBLE ST just as all the other tv shows and movies before it. Before the movies ST became irrelevant, outside of hardcore fans nobody gave a TRIBBLE about it and now its all over the place again and thanks to it there will be a new show in the prime universe. I'm also hoping it will have a domino effect and well see resurgence of some good old sf.

wintersnowblind

While the JJ movies lacked substance, but so did Enterprise, most of Voyager and pretty much all of the other Trek movies (with a few obvious exceptions). There was also a time when TOS fans all but boycotted TNG for not being "real Trek" and the same thing happened to a lesser degree with DS9.

You don't have to like it, but it's asinine to argue that it isn't Star Trek because of that. Star Trek is different things to different people and at this point, it's going to be impossible for any new series, game or movie to make everyone happy.

where2r1

Oh for cryin' out loud, we HAD the old TV shows for 6 years, now.

Guess what? AT Delta Rising, people LEFT....en masse, as far as anecdotal evidence goes. People didn't like it....fine. You couldn't get your friends to come back to your Fleets...fine. You quit recommending it to other people.... fine. You quit spending your money and went to Dilithium farm... fine.

Cryptic went a different direction..... SURPRISE.

I don't mind the new Star Trek movies....and I am not about to gush over one show or another. Yeah, I watched the shows. Yeah, I have nostalgic memories from child hood. But that is not here, that is not now.

Cryptic has always said they are looking to have butts in seats in front of the computer....putting time in the game. This is what they think will do it. It did for the movie theaters.

It is what it is. Get over it.