Hmm. Everything that happened after release of DR made me regret that i have returned to STO after 7 months and bought DR pack. Game went from a more or less accetpable grindfest to the point of unplayability.
The first few weeks of any major update tend to be ugly.
Seems to be worse since word is some of the things complained about by the few Tribble Testers made it over to Holodeck.
That's hilarious, a developer apologist talking about reality
I don't really care that he isn't able to back up what he says, we already knew that before he typed out another developer apologist post like that one you just wrote
Are you trying to be insulting by saying that people are as you call them "developer apologists"? Here's a suggestion: try to be a bit more mature.
Also, in case you were interested (or not), you can call me a developer apologist, I don't care what you think of me or anyone else who you've called a developer apologist. Why? Your opinions about people who may be apologists don't matter in the least. I have been reading a lot of your posts and it seems you have a grudge against Cryptic for some unknown (except to you) reason. Since it's clear to a casual observer, you may just want to stop altogether.
The first few weeks of any major update tend to be ugly.
Seems to be worse since word is some of the things complained about by the few Tribble Testers made it over to Holodeck.
???SOME???
LoL ...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,586Community Moderator
Here is some issues I have with current situation. The New content should not have huge gaps of XP between missions. I played the content on elite and could not get enough XP to get from mission to mission. I ended up needing almost a whole level, Tau Dewa came to help, got me to next mission. Resumed content. Had to rinse and repeat numerous times. Then to do this on 8 late, I don't think so, I would rather doff my way there.
Completely agree on that. the only way i didnt had too many gaps was cause ive been jumping into the borg STFs whenever the cue CD was off. Thats why i i said i dont mind ppl getting to like 52 with the dewa farm. that way the XP should be sufficient to get to 60 with the quests providet.
The issue tho is that you get for a kill on a Dewa patrol mission up to roughly 6000 XP per kill. while a Delta Rising quest only rewards you with 900. while i understand that if your a dev and you want ppl to actualy play the content you create i als agree on that needs fixing. you shouldnt have to play untill the last mob so you can scratch the XP for lvl 60 together. Nearly all MMORPG in the market understood that priciple. simply cause there are quests that are nice for certain types of players. If you dont like ground combat but a mission requires you to fight on the ground you should be able to skip it without a issue and still be able to get to max lvl.
A public leveling event on a test server with a feedback system seen on betas like SWTOR (with all the fails that game had regarding this it was a good game) ppl could have given proper feedback and some of the content could have been stress tested like th kobali ground desaster.
Also i community based testing team where fleets can suggest members to participate who then get selected from cryptic could help to get a better view from a "players view" to prevent issues like this. Not that it will prevent something like this completely but if you can get equal XP from lvling as from grinding something most ppl will take the leveling cause grinding just gets boring.
Cryptic haters: I hate this game, but I'll play it all the time so i can show the world how much I hate the game
Cryptic Defense Force: This game is Great nothing wrong with it ever, I never see anything I don't know what you're talking about, The game crashing to desktop, that's the game telling me to take a break.
Both are equally annoying, bot contribute nothing to the game,, and any actual good ideas on the forums, gets berried in rage, or TRIBBLE kissing threads.
That's why the forums are only good for Entertainment, and nothing serious
To hell with being mature, I care about right and wrong.
And these here changes are wrong, the developers are wrong and so are the developer apologists.
But yeah no, what I was saying was, I call them one before I know if they are one.
Because unless you are a hall-monitor you'd hate to be labelled as one.
Sto supporter, wanting the game to good hey who can object to that.
Developer apologism however is when you defend developers no matter what for that forum moderator-hall-monitor internet fame.
Psychology of that being who wants to hang out with the teacher's pet, no one! And there is then teh cycle of it all
/edit
So when I say that guy is one it's always a question and first knowing a normal person would take it as an insult
So ranking from lvl 50-60 to unlock Elite content is not just locked behind an extortionate amount of skill points but they decided to make it even harder to acquire those skill points and unlock that content by shutting down a perfectly legit way of earning those skill points.
Sounds like senior manager from any business totally out of touch with your frontline workforce or customer base.
Well if they nerf this I won't be spending anymore real cash on the game I'll use dil to convert to zen. But better not earn too much thy might nerf this aswell
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,586Community Moderator
To hell with being mature, I care about right and wrong.
And these here changes are wrong, the developers are wrong and so are the developer apologists.
But yeah no, what I was saying was, I call them one before I know if they are one.
Because unless you are a hall-monitor you'd hate to be labelled as one.
Sto supporter, wanting the game to good hey who can object to that.
Developer apologism however is when you defend developers no matter what for that forum moderator-hall-monitor internet fame.
Psychology of that being who wants to hang out with the teacher's pet, no one! And there is then teh cycle of it all
/edit
So when I say that guy is one it's always a question and first knowing a normal person would take it as an insult
You are coming across as lashing out at anyone who doesn't agree with you...
OK, what surprises me, is that this is getting top priority. At least 5% of the players are no longer able to enter the game. 5% potentially paying customers. They have submitted tickets, they have tried begging for help in the help files, on the forum. They even have asked people in the game for help, or logged into Neverwinter or another "Cryptic" game to get a dev to listen.
What did they hear? Nothing!! They are still not able to log in 1 week after release.
I care not whether this was an exploit or not. This was normal grinding to me. Maybe a little quicker then was expected by cryptic, but it was still normal grinding, where we are playing the game.
Cryptic haters: I hate this game, but I'll play it all the time so i can show the world how much I hate the game
Cryptic Defense Force: This game is Great nothing wrong with it ever, I never see anything I don't know what you're talking about, The game crashing to desktop, that's the game telling me to take a break.
Both are equally annoying, bot contribute nothing to the game,, and any actual good ideas on the forums, gets berried in rage, or TRIBBLE kissing threads.
That's why the forums are only good for Entertainment, and nothing serious
Funny, I made a similar statement in the past about giving feedback.
Heh, not trying to be mean but like I said yeah it ought to be insulting.
That's the whole thing about developer apologism I am trying to explain.
"Uncle tom" is another term for it but unfortunately very few people don't associate it with racism when what it's actually about is selling out your own people.
That is exactly what applies to developer apologist - people who sold out the other kids because maybe the other kids didn't wanna play and all that was left was that hall monitor badge?
That's 100% how I see forum moderators - additionally they do this for free which also takes away jobs - a double sell out.
Way I look at it is, they don't contribute - they actually take away from the game.
They'd never ask for improvments or want the game to get better.
And so we have to continue to do what we started out doing, isolate them socially so they can do as little damage as possible NOT that it's personal like I said it's like a species of parrots maybe a borg parrot race.
The borg parrot developer apologist collective?
So it's not one special person or unique individual it's flawed phenomenon that as a whole has to be looked down and if possibly removed entirely, dreaming here of course
/edit.
ps. where a parrot is an object that can mimic speech but with zero cognition
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,586Community Moderator
Heh, not trying to be mean but like I said yeah it ought to be insulting.
That's the whole thing about developer apologism I am trying to explain.
"Uncle tom" is another term for it but unfortunately very few people don't associate it with racism when what it's actually about is selling out your own people.
That is exactly what applies to developer apologist - people who sold out the other kids because maybe the other kids didn't wanna play and all that was left was that hall monitor badge?
That's 100% how I see forum moderators - additionally they do this for free which also takes away jobs - a double sell out.
Way I look at it is, they don't contribute - they actually take away from the game.
They'd never ask for improvments or want the game to get better.
And so we have to continue to do what we started out doing, isolate them socially so they can do as little damage as possible NOT that it's personal like I said it's like a species of parrots maybe a borg parrot race.
The borg parrot developer apologist collective?
So it's not one special person or unique individual it's flawed phenomenon that as a whole has to be looked down and if possibly removed entirely, dreaming here of course
Wait a second! Are you ranting about askray and Bluegeek now? When did this become about them?
And I believe they volunteered, as in they are donating their time to be mods.
I haven't named any names, nor will I and I don't think that's interesting either.
If you look at what I just wrote that's entirely the opposite of what I am what saying.
To me developer apologism is a phenomenon that worsen the quality of games.
As such one person has no interest in himself only as far as learning to generalize the specifics of the problems.
If it weren't for developer apologists and forum moderators - in all games - there'd be no third rate developers with demi-god complexes around.
When those people sell out, they don't just sell the players out the sell the game and they sell themselves out.
And that's where the parrot part comes in, it can talk but it's not thinking about the consequences because there is no cognition there.
Ok, just to put things in perspective, I got to 53 normally, then grinded (ground?) my way to 59 so I could finish up by playing the story content straight through.
I hit 60 during the space battle in the last mission. It took most of the missions in the storyline to just do 59-60 without artificially inflating the difficulty (I like normal, sue me).
Godspeed powerlevelers; that's completely absurd.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,586Community Moderator
edited October 2014
Without Forum Mods, the forums descend into chaos and flame wars. And what does that have to do with developers?
It almost sounds like you're blaming the janitor for something the CEO did. Forum Mods have no connection with the Staff because they are volunteers who keep an eye on the forum. They don't do anything in regards to the game itself.
Without Forum Mods, the forums descend into chaos and flame wars. And what does that have to do with developers?
It almost sounds like you're blaming the janitor for something the CEO did. Forum Mods have no connection with the Staff because they are volunteers who keep an eye on the forum. They don't do anything in regards to the game itself.
You're chasing shadows.
could you use a different expression, please? i don't like being chased
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,586Community Moderator
Are you really ignorant enough to think that an un-policed forum would lead to better developers? That's the dumbest leap of logic I've seen on these forums in quite a while.
But please, explain why a forum full of whining fools and flame threads left unchecked would push devs to be better. I'm intensely curious as to the cause and effect of this.
are You Really Ignorant Enough To Think That An Un-policed Forum Would Lead To Better Developers? That's The Dumbest Leap Of Logic I've Seen On These Forums In Quite A While.
But Please, Explain Why A Forum Full Of Whining Fools And Flame Threads Left Unchecked Would Push Devs To Be Better. I'm Intensely Curious As To The Cause And Effect Of This.
Children, can you please open a new topic called "No, you're stupid" and hold your apologist or not an apologist discussion there? This does not contribute to this discussion.
This whole thing is getting tribal now. If you aren't with me you're against me kinda TRIBBLE. We are all STO players, we should in theory all be able to enjoy the product as intended, however we are also all unique personalities, this thread shows that well enough.
Problems stems from Dil issue for Cryptic, hence fast nerf, secondly the high 'n' mighty's who think that being able to experience lvl 60 content fast is something that should be banned because they can't or won't look at a work around for the excessive and ultimately pointless grind imposed upon the players because of "reasons"...
Now because of this we cannot even access content that's been a staple of the game for a long time. Even needed for some missions in the episodes to complete. Cryptic's only comment has been to blame players for exploiting legitimate game mechanics. Which in turn results in wasted time and a **** load of forum trolling.
To address this issue they really need to get a handle on what's actually wrong instead of just cutting things off and blaming the people who gave them the money to keep their hobby going.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,586Community Moderator
edited October 2014
All I did was provide a counter argument based on my own observations. NO brain altering ray guns from Devs here.
And I'm not the one calling people names because those people don't agree with me.
Comments
The first few weeks of any major update tend to be ugly.
Seems to be worse since word is some of the things complained about by the few Tribble Testers made it over to Holodeck.
Also, in case you were interested (or not), you can call me a developer apologist, I don't care what you think of me or anyone else who you've called a developer apologist. Why? Your opinions about people who may be apologists don't matter in the least. I have been reading a lot of your posts and it seems you have a grudge against Cryptic for some unknown (except to you) reason. Since it's clear to a casual observer, you may just want to stop altogether.
???SOME???
LoL ...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Well... as I'm F2P... I don't know what was over there because they wouldn't allow me over there.
Completely agree on that. the only way i didnt had too many gaps was cause ive been jumping into the borg STFs whenever the cue CD was off. Thats why i i said i dont mind ppl getting to like 52 with the dewa farm. that way the XP should be sufficient to get to 60 with the quests providet.
The issue tho is that you get for a kill on a Dewa patrol mission up to roughly 6000 XP per kill. while a Delta Rising quest only rewards you with 900. while i understand that if your a dev and you want ppl to actualy play the content you create i als agree on that needs fixing. you shouldnt have to play untill the last mob so you can scratch the XP for lvl 60 together. Nearly all MMORPG in the market understood that priciple. simply cause there are quests that are nice for certain types of players. If you dont like ground combat but a mission requires you to fight on the ground you should be able to skip it without a issue and still be able to get to max lvl.
A public leveling event on a test server with a feedback system seen on betas like SWTOR (with all the fails that game had regarding this it was a good game) ppl could have given proper feedback and some of the content could have been stress tested like th kobali ground desaster.
Also i community based testing team where fleets can suggest members to participate who then get selected from cryptic could help to get a better view from a "players view" to prevent issues like this. Not that it will prevent something like this completely but if you can get equal XP from lvling as from grinding something most ppl will take the leveling cause grinding just gets boring.
Cryptic Defense Force: This game is Great nothing wrong with it ever, I never see anything I don't know what you're talking about, The game crashing to desktop, that's the game telling me to take a break.
Both are equally annoying, bot contribute nothing to the game,, and any actual good ideas on the forums, gets berried in rage, or TRIBBLE kissing threads.
That's why the forums are only good for Entertainment, and nothing serious
And these here changes are wrong, the developers are wrong and so are the developer apologists.
But yeah no, what I was saying was, I call them one before I know if they are one.
Because unless you are a hall-monitor you'd hate to be labelled as one.
Sto supporter, wanting the game to good hey who can object to that.
Developer apologism however is when you defend developers no matter what for that forum moderator-hall-monitor internet fame.
Psychology of that being who wants to hang out with the teacher's pet, no one! And there is then teh cycle of it all
/edit
So when I say that guy is one it's always a question and first knowing a normal person would take it as an insult
Sounds like senior manager from any business totally out of touch with your frontline workforce or customer base.
Well if they nerf this I won't be spending anymore real cash on the game I'll use dil to convert to zen. But better not earn too much thy might nerf this aswell
You are coming across as lashing out at anyone who doesn't agree with you...
What did they hear? Nothing!! They are still not able to log in 1 week after release.
I care not whether this was an exploit or not. This was normal grinding to me. Maybe a little quicker then was expected by cryptic, but it was still normal grinding, where we are playing the game.
Funny, I made a similar statement in the past about giving feedback.
That's the whole thing about developer apologism I am trying to explain.
"Uncle tom" is another term for it but unfortunately very few people don't associate it with racism when what it's actually about is selling out your own people.
That is exactly what applies to developer apologist - people who sold out the other kids because maybe the other kids didn't wanna play and all that was left was that hall monitor badge?
That's 100% how I see forum moderators - additionally they do this for free which also takes away jobs - a double sell out.
Way I look at it is, they don't contribute - they actually take away from the game.
They'd never ask for improvments or want the game to get better.
And so we have to continue to do what we started out doing, isolate them socially so they can do as little damage as possible NOT that it's personal like I said it's like a species of parrots maybe a borg parrot race.
The borg parrot developer apologist collective?
So it's not one special person or unique individual it's flawed phenomenon that as a whole has to be looked down and if possibly removed entirely, dreaming here of course
/edit.
ps. where a parrot is an object that can mimic speech but with zero cognition
Wait a second! Are you ranting about askray and Bluegeek now? When did this become about them?
And I believe they volunteered, as in they are donating their time to be mods.
If you look at what I just wrote that's entirely the opposite of what I am what saying.
To me developer apologism is a phenomenon that worsen the quality of games.
As such one person has no interest in himself only as far as learning to generalize the specifics of the problems.
If it weren't for developer apologists and forum moderators - in all games - there'd be no third rate developers with demi-god complexes around.
When those people sell out, they don't just sell the players out the sell the game and they sell themselves out.
And that's where the parrot part comes in, it can talk but it's not thinking about the consequences because there is no cognition there.
I hit 60 during the space battle in the last mission. It took most of the missions in the storyline to just do 59-60 without artificially inflating the difficulty (I like normal, sue me).
Godspeed powerlevelers; that's completely absurd.
It almost sounds like you're blaming the janitor for something the CEO did. Forum Mods have no connection with the Staff because they are volunteers who keep an eye on the forum. They don't do anything in regards to the game itself.
You're chasing shadows.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And you just proved my point earlier. You are calling everyone who doesn't see what you apparently see that.
There is no connection between me, forum mods, or any one of us forum goers and the Devs. Yet you seem to be so convinced that there is a connection.
I just disagreed with you, and presented a reasonable argument, and you fall back on your apparent party line.
Are you really ignorant enough to think that an un-policed forum would lead to better developers? That's the dumbest leap of logic I've seen on these forums in quite a while.
But please, explain why a forum full of whining fools and flame threads left unchecked would push devs to be better. I'm intensely curious as to the cause and effect of this.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
^^^^^^
Thank You!
No actually you just proved my point from before you even posted.
Anyone not a developer apologist parrot uncle tom sell-out, would take offense at the notion
You didn't
What the hell is that supposed to mean? If I don't agree with you I'm some evil pawn in a conspiracy?
http://youtu.be/2XOzyBQ594E?t=4s
Problems stems from Dil issue for Cryptic, hence fast nerf, secondly the high 'n' mighty's who think that being able to experience lvl 60 content fast is something that should be banned because they can't or won't look at a work around for the excessive and ultimately pointless grind imposed upon the players because of "reasons"...
Now because of this we cannot even access content that's been a staple of the game for a long time. Even needed for some missions in the episodes to complete. Cryptic's only comment has been to blame players for exploiting legitimate game mechanics. Which in turn results in wasted time and a **** load of forum trolling.
To address this issue they really need to get a handle on what's actually wrong instead of just cutting things off and blaming the people who gave them the money to keep their hobby going.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
And I'm not the one calling people names because those people don't agree with me.