I guess that means those camps in WWII never happened nor all that recent stuff over religion in the middle east, nor any of the other violent and oppressive things that happened throughout history whenever people disagreed about ideology. :rolleyes:
But please don't stop protesting on my account, you only make your arguments look more and more foolish, and watching someone undermine his own position is always amusing.
You're a fool. You're citing religious fanaticism where there was none in the episode. Where you may think you have teeth, I only see your 10 toes with both feet in your mouth. Try being reasonable for a change.
Actually the childish part is only quoting part of posts and then blatantly ignoring the rest of them, and refusing to answer peacefully and well presented commentary. For example, I asked you to put the point where I stopped treating you like an adult. You ignored that completely, instead deciding to focus on the part that was there for comic relief (since if you think about it, it's ridiculous to expect ANYTHING on the internet. It's one of those "expect the unexpected because if you expect that which is expected you will either be insulted or disappointed.").
And I also asked you to please tell me what was wrong with this little... creative licensing that the devs have taken, and even compared them to things already in game that are just as much an example of violations of canon (IE the Breen and Deferi, the Tholians (since in ToS and other canon sources, the Tholians are recluses, like their carriers, and do not seek open conflict, whereas in game they are constantly attacking you, harassing you, interfering in general), the KDF becoming allies with the Gorn (who pretty much hate everyone), the Orions (basically green ferengi, they don't do open warfare), the Nausicans (um... mercs... they wouldn't join in all out war), and many others (see my other posts for reference)) and yet you chose to ignore my logical reasoning, instead commenting that I "treated you like a child" and refused to "give you the respect and adult treatment you deserve".
And then after reading all your other posts in this thread, I have determined that if anyone is acting like a child, it is you. You call others fools who don't agree with you, refusing to even bother looking at any point of view other than your own. You ask for source citing, and when it's provided you say that just because it wasn't on screen it can't be confirmed.
Well here's a quick reversal of roles then: The Voth were only on screen for one episode. And roughly half of that episode (if not more) was spent listening to random screen-writing and boring conversation on Voyager. The only time the Voth actually make an appearance is for a few minute intervals throughout the episode, and the last 1/4 of the episode. So for all you know, what the devs have envisioned could actually be what the Voth have and use for war.
As was stated, there are only 2 Voth ships ever seen. Their massive city ship and that little science ship. For all we know, they could have warships exactly like what the devs made up. You don't see anything other than a few scientists and aristocrats. Their soldiers and combat technology could be exactly like what the devs envisioned. They could use combat armor, bio-engineered dinosaurs, and even combat mechs.
That's why this is perfectly fine as canon goes, because you know almost NOTHING about the Voth from canon. It leaves so much open to the imagination and to be created. And yet you refuse to accept it, with a barely coherent argument of "it not being in the spirit of Star Trek" as your only thing to fall back on. I feel I must point out that the "spirit of Star Trek" was to "explore strange new worlds, and seek out new civilizations, and to boldly go where no man has gone before". That's exactly what the devs are doing here. They are taking a strange new species, and their new civilization that was barely developed, and boldly going where no one has gone before and actually turning it into something more than just a guest appearance in one episode of one series. And yet you're resisting this despite it being completely in the spirit and style of Star Trek. I don't really understand why. And yet you call me childish and others fools?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Wow.. Even your own source which is fan-written doesn't even say the assistant was tortured just threatened and he was. He was threatened with a lesser social status.
Seriously just go watch the episode. It's on Netflix and easily viewed. Stop being lazy and imaginative.
However, if you've read any of my posts with any thoughtfulness you'll know exactly where we're coming from but that would require you to be thoughtful as well. So far I'm just not seeing you being reasonable in the slightest.
I never said the wiki was my source. Go rewatch the episode and pay more attention to the part where the Voth mention "inquisitorial surgeons".
My point is that the Voth government in the Ep was NOT composed of enlightened individuals. Describing them as peaceful is, at best, stretching the truth.
And let's not forget at time 29:25 the Voth government bluntly gives their wayward scientist the ultimatum that if he doesn't return immediately to face the charges made against him they will destroy the Voyager and kill the crew.
Just the thing you'd expect from an enlightened and peace loving people. :rolleyes:
Dunno why you guys are still trying. The guy knows he's right, don't bother him with facts and reason.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
"Imprisonment" in such a society usually means "Eat the Bugs, you won't get anything else!" -> Indirect Death Sentence...
"Lesser Social Status", getting stripped of anything... reduced to a Non-Entity... "Friends" cannot do anything unless they want to be seen as collaborating with the lessers, which in turn lessens their social status... So you can't find work, need to beg... live long enough to suffer and keep suffering until one day you simply die in an alley and no one will give a sh*t.
You could say he's Vothlike in his adherence to his Doctrine. :rolleyes:
Even funnier, now that he's realized that everyone isn't agreeing with him and there are posters who are actually in agreement with each other against him... he's stopped posting. HERP. A. DERP!!!! :P
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
wow in just about a month this thread is just about cought caught up to the DOOM thread now back to your regularly scheduled dinosaurs with frickin lasers on there heads
My hope since we know little bout the voth is that theres different classes of voth evolved from different dino species.
Like soldiers evolved from t-rex large muscular bipedal not to smart but have evolved to be strong powerfull soldiers
Raptor voth who ave evolved to be like the scientists of the voth since we all know the velociraptor was intelligent.
well you get the idea i hop cryptic expands on the voth adds a few subspecies in them make them a bit more diverse then evolved from herbavores HEY LOOK we haz dion with laser on heads.
Well, if there are subspecies, they all seem to be hadrosaur descendants from what's been shown so far. Different crests, even spines on crests, but the same basic build and cranial structure.
If you'll recall, they also have paralytic quills they can launch from their forearms. Not exactly something any known dinosaur species is thought to have possessed. So clearly, a little more than 'this dinosaur became humanoid and got better brains' has happened over the course of their evolution.
As for the bio-engineered dinosaurs themselves... if I had the option of putting guns on a jackal mastiff, targ, saur, or sehlat, I so would. I wouldn't mount them on the head, since the torso is a much more stable platform (can you say 'dinosaur howdah' kids? I knew you could), especially on a quadruped and offers a more even weight distribution, thus enabling larger, more powerful cannons to be mounted. Would make the saur used by random Gorn NPCs more threatening if they had disruptor cannons mounted on both sides, or even just a big one on their backs.
So of all the things that the copyright holders say, "Ok," to, they approve dinosaurs with head lasers?
Here's my logic on why this is an absurd design decision:
The first thing that comes to my mind is evolution. The Voth have evolved to become humanoid, why would they weaponize their less evolved cousins? The equivalent would be for the Federation to make cyborg chimps and gorillas for their soldiers. This is obviously absurd and unnecessary given the state of human evolution in Star Trek. I feel the same for the Voth.
Secondly, why would arming a T-Rex with a laser be any more effective than say, just using a laser? The T-Rex is not even capable of the intelligence required to use said laser with any sort of tactic. Hell, it can't even see!
Lastly, I feel like this is an extremely uncreative and poorly thought out addition to the Voth because the Voth hold strictly to their belief in superiority through Evolution. They believe that they are the first species to become highly evolved in the Delta quadrant. When the crew of Voyager deciphered that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, it nearly caused a civil war in the Voth society. In order to prevent a collapse of order, the information discovered by the Voyager crew was hidden and disavowed.
Why the hell, then, would the Voth necro up some ACTUAL species that existed on Earth? Their skeletal structures would be clearly recognizable and provide inalienable proof that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, not the Delta quadrant.
Am I missing something here or is this just a really lousy design choice, given my opinion?
It's a game, not a simulator. It's supposed to have some "fun" elements too.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
1: Where have you been hiding for the past 2 months...? This is old news.
2: Read the dev blogs... It actually makes sense if you do.
So the copyright holders can't agree to allowing players more freedom with ships, as an example... but when "all I want is dinosaurs with frickin laser beams on their heads!? then it becomes, "a game. Let's have some fun!"
I just don't understand.
On one hand there seems to be strict logic behind making design choices in the game, by the copyright holders, on the other hand there are dinosaurs with lasers on their heads.
On one hand, this is a copyrighted franchise that must maintain canon rigidity, on the other hand, it seems, "Let's have some fun!"
I hope you can understand my argument and how I am confused regarding the logic of the copyright holders.
And please, I laid out some very specific criticisms. I would very much like some reasoning based on those criticisms that I laid out in the OP.
Why would the Voth engineer creatures that are EXACTLY the species that link them to Earth?
So the copyright holders can't agree to allowing players more freedom with ships, as an example... but when "all I want is dinosaurs with frickin laser beams on their heads!? then it becomes, "a game. Let's have some fun!"
I just don't understand.
Trek foes have always been odd. They range from 2 entirely different cosmic entities: Q and Trelane to super-heated spiders whose ships shoot energy webs, to evolved dinosaurs roaming the Delta Quadrant in vast ships.
CBS doesn't care all that much about the foes because they're foes: you use them for an episode or two and then move on to the next absurd foe. That's entirely different then caring about their golden IP points: ships, playable species, etc.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I accept that argument. I am still wondering if someone has a better answer considering what is known about the Voth from Star Trek: Voyager.
As has been pointed out a couple of times now, did you read the Blogs? They give you an understanding as to why the Voth use dinosaurs.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Actually he does respond to it... You just don't want to see it.
Yeh, you must be right, I'm asking for explanations that I don't want to see. /sarcasm
Please, offer something, or don't bother replying. Or, keep doing what you're doing and amuse only yourself.
If the Voth are as rigid in their philosophy of superiority as they were in Star Trek: Voyager, then the easiest way for the Federation to stop their incursion in to the Dyson Sphere would be to show the Voth society the links between mecha-T-Rex and an extinct T-Rex. The genetic markers would also be a stark indication of the origins of the Voth. This would cause a civil war in their society and stop their incursion.
How could this have been a well thought out design decision? I don't think that it was.
Does it make the Voth fun to fight? Sure. Does it make sense for canon? Not in my opinion. Does it make the Voth unqiue? Yup.
I have read the blogs and the only understanding that I come out with is that they use dinosaurs because they use dinosaurs.
They have mechs, but they use dinosaurs too.
There is no information related to my criticisms, unfortunately, aside from, ?all I want is dinosaurs with frickin? laser beams on their heads!?
Well, all I can say is good luck with your rant! It won't get you anything as the content is already done and in testing on Tribble - I fought some dinosaurs myself - but if it makes you feel better to rage against the machine, so be it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I accept that argument. I am still wondering if someone has a better answer considering what is known about the Voth from Star Trek: Voyager.
this is the thing we dont know much about them only what we saw of them on one i repeat one EP sorry but you not going to know every thing about a race from one EP only what that EP calls for other than that got to use that thing that gave us star trek
for all we know there are 100's of city ships all over the universe doing gods knows what
this is the thing we dont know much about them only what we saw of them on one i repeat one EP sorry but you not going to know every thing about a race from one EP only what that EP calls for other than that got to use that thing that gave us star trek
for all we know there are 100's of city ships all over the universe doing gods knows what
AFAIK the City Ship housed the entirety of the Voth civilization.
With my criticisms I am drawing from that one episode, the sole appearance of the Voth in the history of all Star Trek iterations.
In that appearance, the Voth held strictly to their doctrine and any deviation from it was disavowed in order to prevent a societal collapse. The information that was disavowed and nearly caused that collapse was the revelation that the Voth originated from Earth in the Alpha quadrant. The link was derived from genetic research of the Voth DNA.
Now, the Voth have taken their DNA and manipulated it to create less evolved creatures that are identical, and would without a doubt reveal their origin on Earth in the Alpha quadrant... does not compute.
The reason you want an explanation is you just found out about the dino's, we that have read the blogs and, come to terms that this is it an we can't change it, just except it now. Come back to the forums in a couple of months, you should of excepted it by then.
The first thing that comes to my mind is evolution. The Voth have evolved to become humanoid, why would they weaponize their less evolved cousins?
Humans would NEVER use trained dolphins or dogs or anything in warfare!
Secondly, why would arming a T-Rex with a laser be any more effective than say, just using a laser? The T-Rex is not even capable of the intelligence required to use said laser with any sort of tactic. Hell, it can't even see!
Yeah, if humans took thousands of years to apply even basic technologies to our society, we wouldn't still be using horses and such!
Why the hell, then, would the Voth necro up some ACTUAL species that existed on Earth? Their skeletal structures would be clearly recognizable and provide inalienable proof that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, not the Delta quadrant.
They aren't, though I can see how such a thing would strain your pitiful mammalian brain. They're actual species that evolved on the Voth homeworld that just happen to resemble some creature's from Earth's geological past, just like how all you mammals happen to look exactly alike. You're free to disagree, of course, except if you go against the Doctrine you /will/ be severely punished.
Comments
You're a fool. You're citing religious fanaticism where there was none in the episode. Where you may think you have teeth, I only see your 10 toes with both feet in your mouth. Try being reasonable for a change.
Actually the childish part is only quoting part of posts and then blatantly ignoring the rest of them, and refusing to answer peacefully and well presented commentary. For example, I asked you to put the point where I stopped treating you like an adult. You ignored that completely, instead deciding to focus on the part that was there for comic relief (since if you think about it, it's ridiculous to expect ANYTHING on the internet. It's one of those "expect the unexpected because if you expect that which is expected you will either be insulted or disappointed.").
And I also asked you to please tell me what was wrong with this little... creative licensing that the devs have taken, and even compared them to things already in game that are just as much an example of violations of canon (IE the Breen and Deferi, the Tholians (since in ToS and other canon sources, the Tholians are recluses, like their carriers, and do not seek open conflict, whereas in game they are constantly attacking you, harassing you, interfering in general), the KDF becoming allies with the Gorn (who pretty much hate everyone), the Orions (basically green ferengi, they don't do open warfare), the Nausicans (um... mercs... they wouldn't join in all out war), and many others (see my other posts for reference)) and yet you chose to ignore my logical reasoning, instead commenting that I "treated you like a child" and refused to "give you the respect and adult treatment you deserve".
And then after reading all your other posts in this thread, I have determined that if anyone is acting like a child, it is you. You call others fools who don't agree with you, refusing to even bother looking at any point of view other than your own. You ask for source citing, and when it's provided you say that just because it wasn't on screen it can't be confirmed.
Well here's a quick reversal of roles then: The Voth were only on screen for one episode. And roughly half of that episode (if not more) was spent listening to random screen-writing and boring conversation on Voyager. The only time the Voth actually make an appearance is for a few minute intervals throughout the episode, and the last 1/4 of the episode. So for all you know, what the devs have envisioned could actually be what the Voth have and use for war.
As was stated, there are only 2 Voth ships ever seen. Their massive city ship and that little science ship. For all we know, they could have warships exactly like what the devs made up. You don't see anything other than a few scientists and aristocrats. Their soldiers and combat technology could be exactly like what the devs envisioned. They could use combat armor, bio-engineered dinosaurs, and even combat mechs.
That's why this is perfectly fine as canon goes, because you know almost NOTHING about the Voth from canon. It leaves so much open to the imagination and to be created. And yet you refuse to accept it, with a barely coherent argument of "it not being in the spirit of Star Trek" as your only thing to fall back on. I feel I must point out that the "spirit of Star Trek" was to "explore strange new worlds, and seek out new civilizations, and to boldly go where no man has gone before". That's exactly what the devs are doing here. They are taking a strange new species, and their new civilization that was barely developed, and boldly going where no one has gone before and actually turning it into something more than just a guest appearance in one episode of one series. And yet you're resisting this despite it being completely in the spirit and style of Star Trek. I don't really understand why. And yet you call me childish and others fools?
My point is that the Voth government in the Ep was NOT composed of enlightened individuals. Describing them as peaceful is, at best, stretching the truth.
My character Tsin'xing
Dunno why you guys are still trying. The guy knows he's right, don't bother him with facts and reason.
"Imprisonment" in such a society usually means "Eat the Bugs, you won't get anything else!" -> Indirect Death Sentence...
"Lesser Social Status", getting stripped of anything... reduced to a Non-Entity... "Friends" cannot do anything unless they want to be seen as collaborating with the lessers, which in turn lessens their social status... So you can't find work, need to beg... live long enough to suffer and keep suffering until one day you simply die in an alley and no one will give a sh*t.
Even funnier, now that he's realized that everyone isn't agreeing with him and there are posters who are actually in agreement with each other against him... he's stopped posting. HERP. A. DERP!!!! :P
system Lord Baal is dead
Like soldiers evolved from t-rex large muscular bipedal not to smart but have evolved to be strong powerfull soldiers
Raptor voth who ave evolved to be like the scientists of the voth since we all know the velociraptor was intelligent.
well you get the idea i hop cryptic expands on the voth adds a few subspecies in them make them a bit more diverse then evolved from herbavores HEY LOOK we haz dion with laser on heads.
If you'll recall, they also have paralytic quills they can launch from their forearms. Not exactly something any known dinosaur species is thought to have possessed. So clearly, a little more than 'this dinosaur became humanoid and got better brains' has happened over the course of their evolution.
As for the bio-engineered dinosaurs themselves... if I had the option of putting guns on a jackal mastiff, targ, saur, or sehlat, I so would. I wouldn't mount them on the head, since the torso is a much more stable platform (can you say 'dinosaur howdah' kids? I knew you could), especially on a quadruped and offers a more even weight distribution, thus enabling larger, more powerful cannons to be mounted. Would make the saur used by random Gorn NPCs more threatening if they had disruptor cannons mounted on both sides, or even just a big one on their backs.
My character Tsin'xing
Here's my logic on why this is an absurd design decision:
The first thing that comes to my mind is evolution. The Voth have evolved to become humanoid, why would they weaponize their less evolved cousins? The equivalent would be for the Federation to make cyborg chimps and gorillas for their soldiers. This is obviously absurd and unnecessary given the state of human evolution in Star Trek. I feel the same for the Voth.
Secondly, why would arming a T-Rex with a laser be any more effective than say, just using a laser? The T-Rex is not even capable of the intelligence required to use said laser with any sort of tactic. Hell, it can't even see!
Lastly, I feel like this is an extremely uncreative and poorly thought out addition to the Voth because the Voth hold strictly to their belief in superiority through Evolution. They believe that they are the first species to become highly evolved in the Delta quadrant. When the crew of Voyager deciphered that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, it nearly caused a civil war in the Voth society. In order to prevent a collapse of order, the information discovered by the Voyager crew was hidden and disavowed.
Why the hell, then, would the Voth necro up some ACTUAL species that existed on Earth? Their skeletal structures would be clearly recognizable and provide inalienable proof that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, not the Delta quadrant.
Am I missing something here or is this just a really lousy design choice, given my opinion?
1: Where have you been hiding for the past 2 months...? This is old news.
2: Read the dev blogs... It actually makes sense if you do.
ps in before it gets assimilated
system Lord Baal is dead
So the copyright holders can't agree to allowing players more freedom with ships, as an example... but when "all I want is dinosaurs with frickin laser beams on their heads!? then it becomes, "a game. Let's have some fun!"
I just don't understand.
On one hand there seems to be strict logic behind making design choices in the game, by the copyright holders, on the other hand there are dinosaurs with lasers on their heads.
On one hand, this is a copyrighted franchise that must maintain canon rigidity, on the other hand, it seems, "Let's have some fun!"
I hope you can understand my argument and how I am confused regarding the logic of the copyright holders.
And please, I laid out some very specific criticisms. I would very much like some reasoning based on those criticisms that I laid out in the OP.
Why would the Voth engineer creatures that are EXACTLY the species that link them to Earth?
CBS doesn't care all that much about the foes because they're foes: you use them for an episode or two and then move on to the next absurd foe. That's entirely different then caring about their golden IP points: ships, playable species, etc.
That's really great but offers nothing to the topic on hand. Your post also doesn't respond to any of the criticisms in the OP.
I accept that argument. I am still wondering if someone has a better answer considering what is known about the Voth from Star Trek: Voyager.
the same logic that gave us space bunnys disco balls the same logic that lets a captain pick there ship should i go on?
system Lord Baal is dead
I have read the blogs and the only understanding that I come out with is that they use dinosaurs because they use dinosaurs.
They have mechs, but they use dinosaurs too.
There is no information related to my criticisms, unfortunately, aside from, ?all I want is dinosaurs with frickin? laser beams on their heads!?
Actually he does respond to it... You just don't want to see it.
Yeh, you must be right, I'm asking for explanations that I don't want to see. /sarcasm
Please, offer something, or don't bother replying. Or, keep doing what you're doing and amuse only yourself.
If the Voth are as rigid in their philosophy of superiority as they were in Star Trek: Voyager, then the easiest way for the Federation to stop their incursion in to the Dyson Sphere would be to show the Voth society the links between mecha-T-Rex and an extinct T-Rex. The genetic markers would also be a stark indication of the origins of the Voth. This would cause a civil war in their society and stop their incursion.
How could this have been a well thought out design decision? I don't think that it was.
Does it make the Voth fun to fight? Sure. Does it make sense for canon? Not in my opinion. Does it make the Voth unqiue? Yup.
Or is it the usual preseason hysterics, and assumed ideas of whats to come.:rolleyes:
this is the thing we dont know much about them only what we saw of them on one i repeat one EP sorry but you not going to know every thing about a race from one EP only what that EP calls for other than that got to use that thing that gave us star trek
for all we know there are 100's of city ships all over the universe doing gods knows what
system Lord Baal is dead
AFAIK the City Ship housed the entirety of the Voth civilization.
With my criticisms I am drawing from that one episode, the sole appearance of the Voth in the history of all Star Trek iterations.
In that appearance, the Voth held strictly to their doctrine and any deviation from it was disavowed in order to prevent a societal collapse. The information that was disavowed and nearly caused that collapse was the revelation that the Voth originated from Earth in the Alpha quadrant. The link was derived from genetic research of the Voth DNA.
Now, the Voth have taken their DNA and manipulated it to create less evolved creatures that are identical, and would without a doubt reveal their origin on Earth in the Alpha quadrant... does not compute.
Humans would NEVER use trained dolphins or dogs or anything in warfare!
Yeah, if humans took thousands of years to apply even basic technologies to our society, we wouldn't still be using horses and such!
They aren't, though I can see how such a thing would strain your pitiful mammalian brain. They're actual species that evolved on the Voth homeworld that just happen to resemble some creature's from Earth's geological past, just like how all you mammals happen to look exactly alike. You're free to disagree, of course, except if you go against the Doctrine you /will/ be severely punished.