There's some videos on YouTube where you can see the capture battleground for those who can't get into Tribble.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
AFAIK the City Ship housed the entirety of the Voth civilization.
This was never even remotely suggested in the episode. How the Voth would enforce what they described as an extensive territorial claim with tiers of rights for native and non-native aliens with their entire civilization existing in such a small ship is difficult to imagine.
So of all the things that the copyright holders say, "Ok," to, they approve dinosaurs with head lasers?
Here's my logic on why this is an absurd design decision:
The first thing that comes to my mind is evolution. The Voth have evolved to become humanoid, why would they weaponize their less evolved cousins? The equivalent would be for the Federation to make cyborg chimps and gorillas for their soldiers. This is obviously absurd and unnecessary given the state of human evolution in Star Trek. I feel the same for the Voth.
Secondly, why would arming a T-Rex with a laser be any more effective than say, just using a laser? The T-Rex is not even capable of the intelligence required to use said laser with any sort of tactic. Hell, it can't even see!
Lastly, I feel like this is an extremely uncreative and poorly thought out addition to the Voth because the Voth hold strictly to their belief in superiority through Evolution. They believe that they are the first species to become highly evolved in the Delta quadrant. When the crew of Voyager deciphered that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, it nearly caused a civil war in the Voth society. In order to prevent a collapse of order, the information discovered by the Voyager crew was hidden and disavowed.
Why the hell, then, would the Voth necro up some ACTUAL species that existed on Earth? Their skeletal structures would be clearly recognizable and provide inalienable proof that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, not the Delta quadrant.
Am I missing something here or is this just a really lousy design choice, given my opinion?
You bring up interesting points. Unfortunately if you're looking for a logical explanation about this, you will probably find none. It was another simple, illogical, for-fun design decision by Cryptic. Love it or hate it.
Perhaps Season 8 will shed some light about the Voth and give an explanation as to why. But I doubt it will give a good one. :rolleyes:
The reason you want an explanation is you just found out about the dino's, we that have read the blogs and, come to terms that this is it an we can't change it, just except it now. Come back to the forums in a couple of months, you should of excepted it by then.
The reason that I'm curious about other people's opinions is due to the apparent contradiction between what the Voth held as their Doctrine in Star Trek: Voyager, and the apparent lack of regard for it in engineering species that would link them directly to the Alpha quadrant.
So of all the things that the copyright holders say, "Ok," to, they approve dinosaurs with head lasers?
Here's my logic on why this is an absurd design decision:
The first thing that comes to my mind is evolution. The Voth have evolved to become humanoid, why would they weaponize their less evolved cousins? The equivalent would be for the Federation to make cyborg chimps and gorillas for their soldiers. This is obviously absurd and unnecessary given the state of human evolution in Star Trek. I feel the same for the Voth.
Secondly, why would arming a T-Rex with a laser be any more effective than say, just using a laser? The T-Rex is not even capable of the intelligence required to use said laser with any sort of tactic. Hell, it can't even see!
Lastly, I feel like this is an extremely uncreative and poorly thought out addition to the Voth because the Voth hold strictly to their belief in superiority through Evolution. They believe that they are the first species to become highly evolved in the Delta quadrant. When the crew of Voyager deciphered that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, it nearly caused a civil war in the Voth society. In order to prevent a collapse of order, the information discovered by the Voyager crew was hidden and disavowed.
Why the hell, then, would the Voth necro up some ACTUAL species that existed on Earth? Their skeletal structures would be clearly recognizable and provide inalienable proof that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, not the Delta quadrant.
Am I missing something here or is this just a really lousy design choice, given my opinion?
Perhaps you fail to understand why evolution is used so much in Science Fiction.
I am bringing up a specific criticism and wondering what the community thinks about it based on what is revealed about the Voth in Star Trek: Voyager.
Much like the Preservers in TOS and the Ancient Humanoids in TNG, Cryptic just tries to make something moderately fun out of a mish-mash of canon and ideas from dozens of writers stretching over 40 years. Sometimes you love it, sometimes you hate it - but no one is going to universally love everything so you just try to shoot for fun.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Much like the Preservers in TOS and the Ancient Humanoids in TNG, Cryptic just tries to make something moderately fun out of a mish-mash of canon and ideas from dozens of writers stretching over 40 years. Sometimes you love it, sometimes you hate it - but no one is going to universally love everything so you just try to shoot for fun.
this always been my thing about trek you cant take the good with out the bad in every series ppl who only try and take nothing but the good well we end up with dinos in space thread!!!!!
Much like the Preservers in TOS and the Ancient Humanoids in TNG, Cryptic just tries to make something moderately fun out of a mish-mash of canon and ideas from dozens of writers stretching over 40 years. Sometimes you love it, sometimes you hate it - but no one is going to universally love everything so you just try to shoot for fun.
To be clear, I neither love nor hate this idea as I haven't gone and tested the gameplay of it. I am simply pointing out a lack of parity between the Voth doctrine and so clearly creating a link between themselves and their ancestry in the Alpha quadrant while then using that creation, which is a link, on the very species of the Alpha quadrant that made the connection in the first place.
I had no trouble logging onto Tribble, I just couldn't find the Voth missions. Is there a location you have to go to to get them?
The proper ways to access it isn't hooked up, but if you go to ESD, outside the admiral's office is a Voth Defector. If you're level 50, just walk up and interact and you'll be warped to the battle zone.
Since it's a temporary hack and not how we'll actually access it, stuff like chosing your boffs doesn't work, and there's no dialog.
To be clear, I neither love nor hate this idea as I haven't gone and tested the gameplay of it. I am simply pointing out a lack of parity between the Voth doctrine and so clearly creating a link between themselves and their ancestry in the Alpha quadrant while then using that creation, which is a link, on the very species of the Alpha quadrant that made the connection in the first place.
There's no link. These dinosaurs might loosely match earth bound species, but they don't have the same names humans give them. They are not dinosaurs from earth, they are most likely domestic or at least captive versions the Voth took with them when they left, whose origins would be just as lost to them as their own.
To be clear, I neither love nor hate this idea as I haven't gone and tested the gameplay of it. I am simply pointing out a lack of parity between the Voth doctrine and so clearly creating a link between themselves and their ancestry in the Alpha quadrant while then using that creation, which is a link, on the very species of the Alpha quadrant that made the connection in the first place.
As I attempted to indicate with my Preserver/Ancient Humanoid reference, the source material is so vague that it's easy for Cryptic to do whatever it wants with the material. While CBS is a lot more touchy on what they'll allow Cryptic to do to with Klingons, Cardassians, Borg, etc the one-shot species seen in various episodes are open to interpretation. Since STO is not canon, and since CBS doesn't really care about the Voth, allowing Cryptic to take a more liberal approach isn't a big deal. Since nothing is really known about the Voth, only speculated, Cryptic can decide how they want them to work in their version of Trek - as long as CBS agrees; which they did.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Freedumb i get what your saying most of us do, unfortunately this is gonna be in game you just have to except it an go with it. I for one have fought against the dino's an its kinda fun.
Riiiight, cuz a species that developed and left the Earth 65 million years before humans is going to use the same terminology and language a bunch of hairless monkeys developed 500 years previously in the Star Trek timeline. :rolleyes:
We don't mess with the logic of the Universal Translator. All of Trek would crumble if we started doing that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Riiiight, cuz a species that developed and left the Earth 65 million years before humans is going to use the same terminology and language a bunch of hairless monkeys developed 500 years previously in the Star Trek timeline. :rolleyes:
hold now that thinking out side the box we can have that here!!!!!!!!!
Riiiight, cuz a species that developed and left the Earth 65 million years before humans is going to use the same terminology and language a bunch of hairless monkeys developed 500 years previously in the Star Trek timeline. :rolleyes:
No reason to believe this is the case either. This is no differnt than all the Keldorian Eagles and Bajoran Emus and Cardassian Voles that are referenced - why would any of them use the same names for things? They don't, except without direct translations most species attach the closest analog from their language, and specify its point of origin to differentiate it.
There's one episode that took the time to explore this, when Odo was chasing what was obviously just an Emu around the promenade. He called it by its proper alien name, a Gungi-Jackdaw. Every time he talked about the Gungi-Jackdaw it was a tangible break in dialog as he wrapped his mouth around unfamiliar word.
Freedumb i get what your saying most of us do, unfortunately this is gonna be in game you just have to except it an go with it. I for one have fought against the dino's an its kinda fun.
I do -accept- it, -except- I would like to discuss it openly in the community.
FROM the Ep. we get that the Voth have been taught by their leadership that they came from the delta quadrant. Any exploration they do is done in secrest. that developed personal cloaking devices so they can observe other's without being known. As such it is far to say that they are slightly xenophobic and while curious about things they will do their upmost to avoid contact. The hostile moves we saw was out of fear. the leadership felt that if the truth of their origins is revealed their authority would be challenged. Thus from that, making them warlike go against what has been seen it is also contradicts the stance on the leadership. For imagine if some voth or the dino with freaking lasers gets captured and look they're Voth the fed can just broadcast the truth and the record of Voyager the the leadership loses power. Causing exactly what they tried to avoid.
FROM the Ep. we get that the Voth have been taught by their leadership that they came from the delta quadrant. Any exploration they do is done in secrest. that developed personal cloaking devices so they can observe other's without being known. As such it is far to say that they are slightly xenophobic and while curious about things they will do their upmost to avoid contact. The hostile moves we saw was out of fear. the leadership felt that if the truth of their origins is revealed their authority would be challenged. Thus from that, making them warlike go against what has been seen it is also contradicts the stance on the leadership. For imagine if some voth or the dino with freaking lasers gets captured and look they're Voth the fed can just broadcast the truth and the record of Voyager the the leadership loses power. Causing exactly what they tried to avoid.
People face it. THIS IS A BAD IDEA.
Well, yeh, that's what I'm saying... it doesn't seem logical #vulcanears
FROM the Ep. we get that the Voth have been taught by their leadership that they came from the delta quadrant. Any exploration they do is done in secrest. that developed personal cloaking devices so they can observe other's without being known. As such it is far to say that they are slightly xenophobic and while curious about things they will do their upmost to avoid contact. The hostile moves we saw was out of fear. the leadership felt that if the truth of their origins is revealed their authority would be challenged. Thus from that, making them warlike go against what has been seen it is also contradicts the stance on the leadership. For imagine if some voth or the dino with freaking lasers gets captured and look they're Voth the fed can just broadcast the truth and the record of Voyager the the leadership loses power. Causing exactly what they tried to avoid.
People face it. THIS IS A BAD IDEA.
Ok, you're talking about hostility... I don't want to spoil too much, but from what is available on Tribble, the Federation are the open aggressors in this conflict. When investigating the Dyson Sphere, they found something which the Voth have a technological interest in as a power source, but which the Federation has standing orders to destroy, even if doing so means violating the Prime Directive.
So of all the things that the copyright holders say, "Ok," to, they approve dinosaurs with head lasers?
Here's my logic on why this is an absurd design decision:
The first thing that comes to my mind is evolution. The Voth have evolved to become humanoid, why would they weaponize their less evolved cousins? The equivalent would be for the Federation to make cyborg chimps and gorillas for their soldiers. This is obviously absurd and unnecessary given the state of human evolution in Star Trek. I feel the same for the Voth.
Secondly, why would arming a T-Rex with a laser be any more effective than say, just using a laser? The T-Rex is not even capable of the intelligence required to use said laser with any sort of tactic. Hell, it can't even see!
Lastly, I feel like this is an extremely uncreative and poorly thought out addition to the Voth because the Voth hold strictly to their belief in superiority through Evolution. They believe that they are the first species to become highly evolved in the Delta quadrant. When the crew of Voyager deciphered that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, it nearly caused a civil war in the Voth society. In order to prevent a collapse of order, the information discovered by the Voyager crew was hidden and disavowed.
Why the hell, then, would the Voth necro up some ACTUAL species that existed on Earth? Their skeletal structures would be clearly recognizable and provide inalienable proof that the Voth shared ancestry with species from Earth, not the Delta quadrant.
Am I missing something here or is this just a really lousy design choice, given my opinion?
You Opinion is no More, nor No Less Valid, than anybody else's around here...
You simply have to decide for yourself whether or not what is about to be added to the game, is worth your time and effort.
Nothing anybody else tells you, will validate your feelings on the subject, unless they happen to agree with you.
The Dev's have given us several blogs on the subject, with several more most likely to come.
When it becomes too overwhelming for you to handle because it's not 'logical' to you, then it's time to find something else to entertain yourself with...
Or Not.
Simple, ain't it?
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Ok, you're talking about hostility... I don't want to spoil too much, but from what is available on Tribble, the Federation are the open aggressors in this conflict. When investigating the Dyson Sphere, they found something which the Voth have a technological interest in as a power source, but which the Federation has standing orders to destroy, even if doing so means violating the Prime Directive.
If people didn't get it from that, they never will.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
For imagine if some voth or the dino with freaking lasers gets captured and look they're Voth the fed can just broadcast the truth and the record of Voyager the the leadership loses power. Causing exactly what they tried to avoid.
The whole point of the episode was that they had proof. A human skeleton is proof enough.
The Voth don't know about Earth dinosaurs. They don't compare themselves to Earth dinosaurs. It might mean something to the humans, but they're just primitive mammals without any Doctrine to guide them.
There might be some resemblance between ancient Earth fauna and Voth fauna, but humans and Vulcans and Romulans and Klingons all look alike, so that doesn't prove anything.
Ok, you're talking about hostility... I don't want to spoil too much, but from what is available on Tribble, the Federation are the open aggressors in this conflict. When investigating the Dyson Sphere, they found something which the Voth have a technological interest in as a power source, but which the Federation has standing orders to destroy, even if doing so means violating the Prime Directive.
IF so fed must consider that fact they are still technically at war with KDF. and dealing with the threat of the Iconians and the Undine. I think Omega Directive has to take a back seat. The Voth have a HUGE tech advantage over Fed. Again BAD IDEA. how about finishing the BLOODY STORY BEFORE STARTING A NEW ONE!
Comments
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if this thread was merged into that one, since that's the main dino discussion thread.
Mine Trap Supporter
This was never even remotely suggested in the episode. How the Voth would enforce what they described as an extensive territorial claim with tiers of rights for native and non-native aliens with their entire civilization existing in such a small ship is difficult to imagine.
Ok... I will try to convert it into lines, understandable to you:
T5 Connie makes people angry
Dinos do not make people angry, just confused.
CBS can make money, and they don't care about your opinion.
You bring up interesting points. Unfortunately if you're looking for a logical explanation about this, you will probably find none. It was another simple, illogical, for-fun design decision by Cryptic. Love it or hate it.
Perhaps Season 8 will shed some light about the Voth and give an explanation as to why. But I doubt it will give a good one. :rolleyes:
This thread is distinctly different from that other thread.
I am bringing up a specific criticism and wondering what the community thinks about it based on what is revealed about the Voth in Star Trek: Voyager.
There are no wrong answers here and I am just curious what others think.
The reason that I'm curious about other people's opinions is due to the apparent contradiction between what the Voth held as their Doctrine in Star Trek: Voyager, and the apparent lack of regard for it in engineering species that would link them directly to the Alpha quadrant.
Perhaps you fail to understand why evolution is used so much in Science Fiction.
this has my vote!!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
this always been my thing about trek you cant take the good with out the bad in every series ppl who only try and take nothing but the good well we end up with dinos in space thread!!!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
To be clear, I neither love nor hate this idea as I haven't gone and tested the gameplay of it. I am simply pointing out a lack of parity between the Voth doctrine and so clearly creating a link between themselves and their ancestry in the Alpha quadrant while then using that creation, which is a link, on the very species of the Alpha quadrant that made the connection in the first place.
The proper ways to access it isn't hooked up, but if you go to ESD, outside the admiral's office is a Voth Defector. If you're level 50, just walk up and interact and you'll be warped to the battle zone.
Since it's a temporary hack and not how we'll actually access it, stuff like chosing your boffs doesn't work, and there's no dialog.
There's no link. These dinosaurs might loosely match earth bound species, but they don't have the same names humans give them. They are not dinosaurs from earth, they are most likely domestic or at least captive versions the Voth took with them when they left, whose origins would be just as lost to them as their own.
hold now that thinking out side the box we can have that here!!!!!!!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
A Voth representitive outside Quinn.s office at ESD. Haven.t done it with my KDF tester yet, so I can only assume it's in the Council Chamber for KDF.
No reason to believe this is the case either. This is no differnt than all the Keldorian Eagles and Bajoran Emus and Cardassian Voles that are referenced - why would any of them use the same names for things? They don't, except without direct translations most species attach the closest analog from their language, and specify its point of origin to differentiate it.
There's one episode that took the time to explore this, when Odo was chasing what was obviously just an Emu around the promenade. He called it by its proper alien name, a Gungi-Jackdaw. Every time he talked about the Gungi-Jackdaw it was a tangible break in dialog as he wrapped his mouth around unfamiliar word.
I do -accept- it, -except- I would like to discuss it openly in the community.
FROM the Ep. we get that the Voth have been taught by their leadership that they came from the delta quadrant. Any exploration they do is done in secrest. that developed personal cloaking devices so they can observe other's without being known. As such it is far to say that they are slightly xenophobic and while curious about things they will do their upmost to avoid contact. The hostile moves we saw was out of fear. the leadership felt that if the truth of their origins is revealed their authority would be challenged. Thus from that, making them warlike go against what has been seen it is also contradicts the stance on the leadership. For imagine if some voth or the dino with freaking lasers gets captured and look they're Voth the fed can just broadcast the truth and the record of Voyager the the leadership loses power. Causing exactly what they tried to avoid.
People face it. THIS IS A BAD IDEA.
Well, yeh, that's what I'm saying... it doesn't seem logical #vulcanears
Ok, you're talking about hostility... I don't want to spoil too much, but from what is available on Tribble, the Federation are the open aggressors in this conflict. When investigating the Dyson Sphere, they found something which the Voth have a technological interest in as a power source, but which the Federation has standing orders to destroy, even if doing so means violating the Prime Directive.
You Opinion is no More, nor No Less Valid, than anybody else's around here...
You simply have to decide for yourself whether or not what is about to be added to the game, is worth your time and effort.
Nothing anybody else tells you, will validate your feelings on the subject, unless they happen to agree with you.
The Dev's have given us several blogs on the subject, with several more most likely to come.
When it becomes too overwhelming for you to handle because it's not 'logical' to you, then it's time to find something else to entertain yourself with...
Or Not.
Simple, ain't it?
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The whole point of the episode was that they had proof. A human skeleton is proof enough.
The Voth don't know about Earth dinosaurs. They don't compare themselves to Earth dinosaurs. It might mean something to the humans, but they're just primitive mammals without any Doctrine to guide them.
There might be some resemblance between ancient Earth fauna and Voth fauna, but humans and Vulcans and Romulans and Klingons all look alike, so that doesn't prove anything.
IF so fed must consider that fact they are still technically at war with KDF. and dealing with the threat of the Iconians and the Undine. I think Omega Directive has to take a back seat. The Voth have a HUGE tech advantage over Fed. Again BAD IDEA. how about finishing the BLOODY STORY BEFORE STARTING A NEW ONE!