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Re: The Voth's Bio-Engineered Dinos

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  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Keep it simple, stupid... they're probably using that thought
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    i have no problem of it not being in the show all im saying is that it doesnt make sense of them making a army of dinos when they can just make a super-voth thing that destroys everything it looks at or something like that why dinos when they can make better things

    It could be a Doctrine violation. Their Doctrine states that the Voth are the original inhabitants of the Delta quadrant, so they might see any kind of genetic manipulation and enhancements to themselves as messing with perfection. But using those techniques to create an artificial bio-construct might be totally fine.

    There's also the possibility that they had a similar problem that humans did when they messed around with genetic enhancement. The whole Eugenics War and Khan thing. Although Augments were powerful (I think it was 1-2 of them took out a whole ship full of Klingons in ENT?) they were too dangerous.

    There's a whole lot of Voth history that we don't know.
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  • kaaskrulkaaskrul Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Keep it simple, stupid... they're probably using that thought

    advanced races dont normally keep things simple look at the voth ships they are not simple they are far from it so if everything else is advanced and confusing why make a dino simple and confusing
  • stormbringer77stormbringer77 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I really don't see why there seem to be one or two people with a hadrosaur in their bonnet over this non-issue.

    (1) Any advanced species that wanted to colonise a new planet would take flora and fauna from their existing home to their new home, you only have to look at current plans for a manned mission to Mars,

    (2) Advanced species always use lesser species for tasks that the lesser species would be better suited at. There are countless historical examples, horses spring readily to mind but there are hundreds of other examples from our civilisation alone,

    (3) What use could the Voth have for the dinos? A good example would be the T-Rex-alikes, they are much more intimidating/expendable/tougher/dangerous than individual Voth troopers,

    And if none of the logical arguments work for you, you could always try just accepting that it's fun to shoot Dinosaurs and they in no-way 'break' the i.p, would you prefer it if S8 had been going up against space-cowboys?
    ***The above ramblings are, as always, my own opinion. Based on my experiences and interpreted by my mind, they by no means reflect the universal truth (unless coincidentally). Peace.***
  • kaaskrulkaaskrul Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lan451 wrote: »
    It could be a Doctrine violation. Their Doctrine states that the Voth are the original inhabitants of the Delta quadrant, so they might see any kind of genetic manipulation and enhancements to themselves as messing with perfection. But using those techniques to create an artificial bio-construct might be totally fine.

    There's also the possibility that they had a similar problem that humans did when they messed around with genetic enhancement. The whole Eugenics War and Khan thing. Although Augments were powerful (I think it was 1-2 of them took out a whole ship full of Klingons in ENT?) they were too dangerous.

    There's a whole lot of Voth history that we don't know.

    i understand the whole eugenics war thing with them but why make a dino with laser guns and not create anything more power full to destroy the whole allied forces in the sphere it clears up things but confuses me even more
  • kaaskrulkaaskrul Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    (1) Any advanced species that wanted to colonise a new planet would take flora and fauna from their existing home to their new home, you only have to look at current plans for a manned mission to Mars,


    (3) What use could the Voth have for the dinos? A good example would be the T-Rex-alikes, they are much more intimidating/expendable/tougher/dangerous than individual Voth troopers,
    ok i understand that but why not make them moore intimidaing more powerful, dangerous and why not make the ultimate voth soldier that can take on 100 men at once
  • kyeto13kyeto13 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    ok i understand that but why not make them moore intimidaing more powerful, dangerous and why not make the ultimate voth soldier that can take on 100 men at once

    That is exactly what the V-rex is. :rolleyes:

    I like the idea that the Voth themselves do not wish to augment themselves because they view themselves as "perfection" already. The Klingons have the same idea.
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  • til027til027 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    ok i understand that but why not make them moore intimidaing more powerful, dangerous and why not make the ultimate voth soldier that can take on 100 men at once

    I'm not sure if you understand how bio-engineering works, but it is constrained by the laws of physics, and what an organic creature is actually capable of possibly becoming.

    I have never seen an argument where someone is saying dinosaurs are not threatening enough... Second to humans they have been the apex predators to ever roam the earth. Plenty frightening to me.
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    i understand the whole eugenics war thing with them but why make a dino with laser guns and not create anything more power full to destroy the whole allied forces in the sphere it clears up things but confuses me even more

    They really can't make things too powerful. Remember that the entire sphere is packed with Omega particles. In the ground battlezone that we fight over, it has 3 Omega silos, presumably filled with the stuff. If they make things too powerful and uncontrolled, they run the risk of damaging those silos and destabilizing the Omega.

    Assuming that Voth transwarp technology requires subspace like normal warp does, an Omega explosion would be just as damaging to them as it would be for any warp capable species. Instead what you need in a situation like that is more of a surgical strike team. Just enough to get the job done without being overkill. The dinos might be more powerful than the average Voth soldier, but not powerful enough to run the risk of damaging the silos. The V-Rex is on the upper end of that for sure, but still might not be enough to put the Omega at risk.
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  • kaaskrulkaaskrul Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    til027 wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you understand how bio-engineering works, but it is constrained by the laws of physics, and what an organic creature is actually capable of possibly becoming.

    I have never seen an argument where someone is saying dinosaurs are not threatening enough... Second to humans they have been the apex predators to ever roam the earth. Plenty frightening to me.

    i do understand that you can only bio engineer to a certain extent but a thing is they could have made them a bit more dangerous and also i dont find dinos scary i find them not scary at all i dont find them intimidating also my character looks scarier than them when i have my armour on and my weopons out
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    i have no problem of it not being in the show all im saying is that it doesnt make sense of them making a army of dinos when they can just make a super-voth thing that destroys everything it looks at or something like that why dinos when they can make better things

    They did make a "super-voth thing that destroys everything it looks at."

    It's called a Viriosaurus Rex. :cool:
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    ok i understand that but why not make them moore intimidaing more powerful, dangerous and why not make the ultimate voth soldier that can take on 100 men at once

    See "Viriosaurus Rex." :P
  • kaaskrulkaaskrul Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    They did make a "super-voth thing that destroys everything it looks at."

    It's called a Viriosaurus Rex. :cool:



    See "Viriosaurus Rex." :P

    the "Viriosaurus Rex" isnt scary at all also its not a super voth because its a dino
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Out of universe explanation: Cryptic thought it'd be cool to have dinosaurs with freakin' laser beams attached to their foreheads.

    In-universe explanation:

    As the Voth aren't normally militarized, being that they're largely a benign and peaceful species of scientists... they do still have to defend themselves from outside threats. Since it's implied in the Season 8 story that the main reason they're militarized is to defend themselves against the Borg (since the Borg are on their back doorstep), it's clear they needed technology to combat the Borg.

    I think this is why...

    A: They use proton and anti-proton based weaponry. It's established in Star Trek as being effective against the Borg.

    B: They use bio-engineering to create living organisms to fight for them.

    Borg adapt to energy weapons. They have a hard time adapting to tried-and-true physical damage. And you don't get much more formidable than a Bio-engineered V-Rex who can simply bite and claw a Borg drone in two or stomp its foot and knock an invading ground army of Borg on their afts with one move.

    I think this is why the Voth rely on bio-engineered dinosaurs. The Borg could kill them, sure. But they can't really assimilate them -- nothing really shows that they have the intelligence or sentience to become part of the collective. We haven't seen other assimilated animals (outside of Tribbles). And they're expendable, since they can just grow some more.

    And primitive claws and fangs, and probably enhanced muscular power can rip Borg apart when their energy weapons become fully adapted to (if they don't know how to remodulate, which considering the Voth are way more advanced than us, they probably do).

    Again, this is speculation. But it's based on the hypothesis that the only real dangerous enemy the Voth have encountered in the Delta Quadrant is the Borg. So their military reflects that.

    Try adapting to a V-Rex biting you in two.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,965 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    And if none of the logical arguments work for you, you could always try just accepting that it's fun to shoot Dinosaurs and they in no-way 'break' the i.p, would you prefer it if S8 had been going up against space-cowboys?

    Yes, but they did space-cowboys once already.
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  • stormbringer77stormbringer77 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    the "Viriosaurus Rex" isnt scary at all...

    Dude. You'd **** if you actually saw a 'real' one. The only reason that you're not scared by them is that you're aware it's just a digital image of a fictional creature in a computer game. Short of the devs actually bio-engineering a living V-rex to go round to each of our houses, I'm not sure what they could've done to make you 'fear' them.
    ***The above ramblings are, as always, my own opinion. Based on my experiences and interpreted by my mind, they by no means reflect the universal truth (unless coincidentally). Peace.***
  • lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited November 2013
    *sniff sniff*..... i smell.... ratchet and clank?
  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    because how can you control them or even why bio engineer a dino when they are not as advanced as the voth even the voth are smarter than that

    Don't worry. By now you've probably got a handful of apologists that refuse to see bad writing. Most of us with good taste have consistently disapproved of Geko's reckless bad writing for season 8. So you're surely not alone and this is surely not the last of many long-listed complaints over season 8's lack of thematic backbone.

    Geko has incessantly insisted the voth left earth willingly and took a genome record with them. Unfortunately he's been challenged on this as a thin-whim of imagination as the only voth episode clearly doesn't back his attempt to make dinos with lasers make sense.

    You're probably one of the many folks out there that share our disappointment due to actually watching that episode in voyager. He even claims that bad writing is OK because we've had midgets riding picard and a space-Lincoln episode etc.

    Unfortunately what he doesn't realize is that he's coming across as arrogant and selfish as he's only defending bad writing by pointing at previous bad writing. It's a shame really and a CBS executive for third party relations should raise their eyebrow over this surely. (For the sake of sanity..)
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I'm sure if we could get on the Gorn homeworld. I'm sure we will see some kind of Dinos and giant lizards, turtles, snakes on there as well.
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  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    Dude. You'd **** if you actually saw a 'real' one. The only reason that you're not scared by them is that you're aware it's just a digital image of a fictional creature in a computer game. Short of the devs actually bio-engineering a living V-rex to go round to each of our houses, I'm not sure what they could've done to make you 'fear' them.

    His dino's are bald and unrealistic.. I think I'd rather giggle at the preposterous notion rather than take them seriously. Now if he added the actual feather-frond appendages they actually had once upon a time, his dinos might actually be somewhat respectable.. But apparently it's Jurassic Park all over again.
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  • zorbanezorbane Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    farmallm wrote: »
    I'm sure if we could get on the Gorn homeworld. I'm sure we will see some kind of Dinos and giant lizards, turtles, snakes on there as well.

    The way I see it the "non-smart" Voth are just attack animals, similar to how the Klingons use Targs
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  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    There are dinosaurs in the game now?

    This is the first I've heard of it!

    How silly. I'm going to go back to my beloved show that had the far more sensible three-legged monsters that lived in a universe made of jelly...
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    zorbane wrote: »
    The way I see it the "non-smart" Voth are just attack animals, similar to how the Klingons use Targs

    So true that would work. Above all its a game meant to have some fun.
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  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    `
    kaaskrul wrote: »
    ok i hope i put this in the right locations sorry if i didnt anyway;
    why are there dinos in STO this isnt a prehistoric game or did it change into a star trek-prehistoric game because i dont think the voth used dinos to attack the crew of the voyager in the episode distant origins and just because they used to be them doesnt mean you make some of them into dinos and also they cant turn back into dinos because they evolved from them
    way to throw logic out of the window

    *sigh* you do realize that the Dino's are generally cannon right?

    as the voth in voyager were infact evolved form of ancient prehistoric creatures(from EARTH!) who had FYI millions of years to evolve and create technology and leave. which is essentially what happened... it seems you already know this though so...

    (or well get kidnapped then evolve and create tech i cant remember which one it is i haven't watched the episode in ages).

    it actually makes perfect sense for the voth to bio-engineer something familiar too them or extremely similar to them genetically speaking as a weapon and because they started out with dinosaurs to begin with (even though they chose to disregard this even though it was the truth) its perfectly fine for STO to have dinos so long as they dont take it beyond the voth.

    if im honest this just seems like a lame attempt to moan for the sake of moaning without using logic.

    as for them not being as "advanced" they shoot freaking anti proton beams out of their mouths and out of their sides they also have a ton of health. you could honestly consider them "ground" dreadnoughts.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    How silly. I'm going to go back to my beloved show that had the far more sensible three-legged monsters that lived in a universe made of jelly...

    LMAO....


    that made my day.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2013
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited November 2013

    see this is why i only like the music of the 80s and not tv. excluding TNG ofc :)
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    We have dinos with lasers on their heads simply because someone thought it would be cool. I'm pretty sure that is the level of detail that explains S8. Bless the writer for even attempting to shape some kind of explanation for it.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kirksplat wrote: »
    We have dinos with lasers on their heads simply because someone thought it would cool. I'm pretty sure that is the level of detail that explains S8. Bless the writer for even attempting to shape some kind of explanation for it.

    That's what Star Trek writers get paid for. Making sense of the nonsensical and filling in plotholes left behind from episodes and movies of Star Trek.
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  • wolfexile1wolfexile1 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I don't know why this isn't star trek like to you.

    Seriously, This is about as star trek as star trek can be.
  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    kirksplat wrote: »
    We have dinos with lasers on their heads simply because someone thought it would be cool. I'm pretty sure that is the level of detail that explains S8. Bless the writer for even attempting to shape some kind of explanation for it.

    Too true.. This must really ruffle your feathers because you of all people have submitted armfuls of player created content and your works seem more thoughtful than 1/3rd of the attempt made to make season 8 make sense.

    The game's engine may not be great but that's why theme is so important. They really have to sell their product and without the theme it flops in the wind like it's lifelessly flapping now.
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