... but the company is then skimming a little on top from people in countries that do not pay the highest rate of VAT in the EU. That is an unfortunate fact and I hypothesize that the company is doing this for ease of admin (not uncommon unfortunately) rather than levying the correct additional amount for each individual country.
And, as I have said, they are also charging the VAT on purchases from countries in Europe that are not in the EU.
Hoping for improvements...
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2014
Well met everyone,
. . . Let's get off the topic of other game's business models please as while they may have some similarities, Neverwinter does not have the same model as STO or CO and even has a different, while slightly similar, F2P business model than Perfect World Entertainment's other games. Thanks!
. . . Please don't reply to this moderator notice, as doing so is not allowed. Instead, contact us via Private Messages to discuss forum moderation.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
Option 2 wouldn't do anything for me. I play casually and simply would not pay 70€ for a race no matter how many mounts, companions and other stuff they add as I have no interest in any of it.
Ixalmaris, that is fine. But option two would be a good option for a lot of people, PWE/Cryptic included. They are looking at it as 2% of the people will pay $75, and that will provide X revenue, which is the goal. However, many people here feel that $75 is way too much for what you are getting.
I would be happy being one of the "stupid" 2%'ers, if there was some reason to do it.
Ixalmaris, that is fine. But option two would be a good option for a lot of people, PWE/Cryptic included. They are looking at it as 2% of the people will pay $75, and that will provide X revenue, which is the goal. However, many people here feel that $75 is way too much for what you are getting.
I would be happy being one of the "stupid" 2%'ers, if there was some reason to do it.
You know, the best way would be to do both. Have all of that stuff being buyable separately and have pack as it is now which is discounted compared to the single items (doesn't mean it still can't be $90), just like STO does with Legacy of Romulus.
But as zebular put it, this isn't STO and the business model of Neverwinter apparently is centered around selling overpriced stuff in packs by adding random things so that it seems more valuable and don't give the option to pay less for whatever you want from the pack, hoping that people who want some piece from the pack to cave in and pay the full price.
Exactly Ixalmaris. I did mean to imply that both should be there.
I fully acknowledge that I am that type of person, that will cave and pay because I want something from a pack. However, I can't do so with this pack. I can't even trick myself into buying it!
Exactly Ixalmaris. I did mean to imply that both should be there.
I fully acknowledge that I am that type of person, that will cave and pay because I want something from a pack. However, I can't do so with this pack. I can't even trick myself into buying it!
Likewise. I bought the HOTN* pack because there was enough in there that I could lie to myself. This isn't even close- it'd be a hard sell at one tenth of the price. When I saw the headline, my attitide was "oh, shiny!". I clicked through, saw the price and wondered if there had been a very unfortunate mistake. I'm probably a minor whale (maybe a fun one like a Beluga), but I have to say that I can't see anyone but the most cake-marryingly crazy fanboy finding a way to rationalise this one away. Mind=blown. It seems to be one of a recent series of signs and portents, and they do not look good.
* I am, though you wouldn't know, as the forum title has never worked for me, and raising a ticket using the suggested language did not help either, as PWE "support" are essentially a waste of space.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
tckbloodlineMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited August 2014
I think it is about time this thread comes to an end, it was a good 57 pages of journey, but the Fact remains the same that the pack will be kept the same. If anyone cannot justify the cost, simply do not play as one. There are different race available that benefits the class you choose. This pack is for those that are willing to be different amongst the crowd and have something unique, hence the high price and not really about the rest of the contents. Who knows, Maybe in the future there will be a similar pack offering Dragonborn only race for a cheaper price. As of now, the pack remains unchanged.
This pack is for those that are willing to be different amongst the crowd and have something unique, hence the high price and not really about the rest of the contents. Who knows, Maybe in the future there will be a similar pack offering Dragonborn only race for a cheaper price.
Agreed, although it won't happen until Cryptic/PW believes it has profited from all the whales that will pay for this pack.
This is the first >$20 pack to come along that didn't say "shiny" to me at all.
Seriously? $100 just to play as a race in a F2P mmo? You guys gotta be nuts.. I could buy any number of MMOs and play for months on that kind of cash and never have to drop another cent for micro-transactions.
I have been waiting for a decently interesting playable race to finally to get to play Neverwinter, but I'll be damned if I'm going to drop three digits just to play a race that isn't an awkwardly morphed human, or a human with horns clipping through their head. I'd pay a smaller amount for the race alone, but.. frankly, there's absolutely *nothing* that makes this worth it. Complete fail on the price point and lack of flexibility with pricing. It's far, far too high and definitely will cause a lot of people to just not purchase it, myself definitely included. I don't even care about all of that other pay-to-win easy-access freebie gear and such, I'd just want to be able to play the race.
Well, it was exciting to see an interesting race from 4th edition finally added, even if the excitement died utterly the second I saw the ridiculous cost! If it goes free in the future then all's fair if this is a 'early access' kinda deal, but not making that clear now is just sleazy marketing.
I think it is about time this thread comes to an end, it was a good 57 pages of journey, but the Fact remains the same that the pack will be kept the same. If anyone cannot justify the cost, simply do not play as one. There are different race available that benefits the class you choose. This pack is for those that are willing to be different amongst the crowd and have something unique, hence the high price and not really about the rest of the contents. Who knows, Maybe in the future there will be a similar pack offering Dragonborn only race for a cheaper price. As of now, the pack remains unchanged.
It's not about "justifying" cost.. There is no value to it. It's purely cosmetic and some little fun items. You have to look at the cost, $100, versus what else is out there. $100 in many games will buy you every race/class/mount you could desire. It'll buy you ESO and four months of subscription. You'd have to drop $100 to play a cool race *and then* still spend more on all their other F2P gotcha's. It's just an awful price point for a free to play game that is already designed to get money out of you.. Microtransactions are supposed to be micro, not the cost of a month's worth of utilities.
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited August 2014
Has anybody ever taken a game producer to court over them throwing around the word exclusive? The word doesn't have "for all time" along with it or a footnote indicating that they can never change their minds. Pre-order and collector's edition exclusives seem to be increasingly made available publicly in games after some time passes.
I don't know if any game companies have been sued over making "exclusive" items more available. It wouldn't surprise me to learn they have, or that complaints were made and then settled.
I do know that both US and EU government agencies are starting to take a real hard look at "free to play" gaming and they don't like what they see.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
0
tckbloodlineMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
It's not about "justifying" cost.. There is no value to it. It's purely cosmetic and some little fun items. You have to look at the cost, $100, versus what else is out there. $100 in many games will buy you every race/class/mount you could desire. It'll buy you ESO and four months of subscription. You'd have to drop $100 to play a cool race *and then* still spend more on all their other F2P gotcha's. It's just an awful price point for a free to play game that is already designed to get money out of you.. Microtransactions are supposed to be micro, not the cost of a month's worth of utilities.
lol of course I know that, I'm not that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to know the price is high with the lack of contents to justify the price for the race. But what I am trying to get through is, this is Cryptic pricing and they have already decided on this price point. It's either to take it or leave it that was my point in the previous post. We have plenty of pages, each post stating the ridiculous price. It will not change their mind of the Dragonborn legendary Pack. Just hope in the near future there will be a Dragonborn race only pack if they decided to distribute the race to a wider audience. This pack is for those that wants it first and their choice to buy it.
Seriously? $100 just to play as a race in a F2P mmo? You guys gotta be nuts.. I could buy any number of MMOs and play for months on that kind of cash and never have to drop another cent for micro-transactions.
I have been waiting for a decently interesting playable race to finally to get to play Neverwinter, but I'll be damned if I'm going to drop three digits just to play a race that isn't an awkwardly morphed human, or a human with horns clipping through their head. I'd pay a smaller amount for the race alone, but.. frankly, there's absolutely *nothing* that makes this worth it. Complete fail on the price point and lack of flexibility with pricing. It's far, far too high and definitely will cause a lot of people to just not purchase it, myself definitely included. I don't even care about all of that other pay-to-win easy-access freebie gear and such, I'd just want to be able to play the race.
Well, it was exciting to see an interesting race from 4th edition finally added, even if the excitement died utterly the second I saw the ridiculous cost! If it goes free in the future then all's fair if this is a 'early access' kinda deal, but not making that clear now is just sleazy marketing.
They need to rename this pack. It's a lackluster pack....with a legendary price. Even download content on console games isn't this badly priced. Maybe "The Bernie Madoff Pack" ? If they change it later and either charge for just the race or add more worthwhile stuff to it. Either way, this shouldn't be made an exclusive race.
I don't know if your high offer will work, Remember the economy ingame are already unbearable.
the economy is one of the main reason on every MMOs,
why players start leaving the game.
All the prices ingame goes higher and higher, we do Not need more pressure from outside.
1. first the economy inGame will be unbearable.
2. main Chars get hard nerfs and become unusable.
3. The zen Pack are overpriced
Players will think about if it makes sense to continue playing
..or not.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base
Exactamundo! 57 pages to get to the heart of the matter? Well, it is the internet. The above quote should absolutely be the most focused on post concerning this particular matter. Anything else would be uncivilized
"One day I will leave this world and dream myself to reality"--Chief Crazy Horse
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
Making the 30 slot bag redeemable by each character and BoP to Character, as the artefact is, would be enough to make the pack worth £56 for me.
There is no need for a Mount or a Companion as I have two account-wide mounts and 7 companions each anyway.
But the free Artefact plus a free 30 slot bag per character would make it a reasonable deal. If it included the per character bag, I'd have bought it already.
~
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tckbloodlineMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
Making the 30 slot bag redeemable by each character and BoP to Character, as the artefact is, would be enough to make the pack worth £56 for me.
There is no need for a Mount or a Companion as I have two account-wide mounts and 7 companions each anyway.
But the free Artefact plus a free 30 slot bag per character would make it a reasonable deal. If it included the per character bag, I'd have bought it already.
bioshokqueMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited August 2014
Like everyone else here i was very excited about the new of the introduction of the dragonborn and very disappointed when i saw the price tag and contents of the pack. With the sigils i really don't need another artifact for all my characters (i mean it's nice, but not worth nearly as much as it used to be and even then i wouldn't have paid this much). Either make all items claimable with every character or drop the price, cause this pack is much less interesting then the $50 packs and costs more.
And please do something about the ad-zen economy. The fact that zen is so expensive now that no one will even post offers of selling zen anymore should indicate that the economy is going to hell. One of the things i loved most about this game was that you could buy zen with AD. Theoretically that's still possible, but in practice it's become near impossible.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited August 2014
If the bag were account-wide, I'd view this thing as worthwhile too. As it stands, it's a pebble trying to pass itself off as a pearl.
75 or 100 dollars or euros (much worse for us, exchange rate is much higher), is nearly the same, simply too overpriced, in most part of the world people earn that amount of money in nearly a month and not just in 3rd world countries, but in many European countries too!
So i consider this amount a bad joke!:mad:
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Comments
And, as I have said, they are also charging the VAT on purchases from countries in Europe that are not in the EU.
. . . Let's get off the topic of other game's business models please as while they may have some similarities, Neverwinter does not have the same model as STO or CO and even has a different, while slightly similar, F2P business model than Perfect World Entertainment's other games. Thanks!
. . . Please don't reply to this moderator notice, as doing so is not allowed. Instead, contact us via Private Messages to discuss forum moderation.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Option 2 wouldn't do anything for me. I play casually and simply would not pay 70€ for a race no matter how many mounts, companions and other stuff they add as I have no interest in any of it.
I would be happy being one of the "stupid" 2%'ers, if there was some reason to do it.
You know, the best way would be to do both. Have all of that stuff being buyable separately and have pack as it is now which is discounted compared to the single items (doesn't mean it still can't be $90), just like STO does with Legacy of Romulus.
But as zebular put it, this isn't STO and the business model of Neverwinter apparently is centered around selling overpriced stuff in packs by adding random things so that it seems more valuable and don't give the option to pay less for whatever you want from the pack, hoping that people who want some piece from the pack to cave in and pay the full price.
I fully acknowledge that I am that type of person, that will cave and pay because I want something from a pack. However, I can't do so with this pack. I can't even trick myself into buying it!
Likewise. I bought the HOTN* pack because there was enough in there that I could lie to myself. This isn't even close- it'd be a hard sell at one tenth of the price. When I saw the headline, my attitide was "oh, shiny!". I clicked through, saw the price and wondered if there had been a very unfortunate mistake. I'm probably a minor whale (maybe a fun one like a Beluga), but I have to say that I can't see anyone but the most cake-marryingly crazy fanboy finding a way to rationalise this one away. Mind=blown. It seems to be one of a recent series of signs and portents, and they do not look good.
* I am, though you wouldn't know, as the forum title has never worked for me, and raising a ticket using the suggested language did not help either, as PWE "support" are essentially a waste of space.
I can see your HotN title just fine?
If you have another issue, please PM Akromatik or myself and we'll help you get the resolve needed.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Agreed, although it won't happen until Cryptic/PW believes it has profited from all the whales that will pay for this pack.
This is the first >$20 pack to come along that didn't say "shiny" to me at all.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Seriously? $100 just to play as a race in a F2P mmo? You guys gotta be nuts.. I could buy any number of MMOs and play for months on that kind of cash and never have to drop another cent for micro-transactions.
I have been waiting for a decently interesting playable race to finally to get to play Neverwinter, but I'll be damned if I'm going to drop three digits just to play a race that isn't an awkwardly morphed human, or a human with horns clipping through their head. I'd pay a smaller amount for the race alone, but.. frankly, there's absolutely *nothing* that makes this worth it. Complete fail on the price point and lack of flexibility with pricing. It's far, far too high and definitely will cause a lot of people to just not purchase it, myself definitely included. I don't even care about all of that other pay-to-win easy-access freebie gear and such, I'd just want to be able to play the race.
Well, it was exciting to see an interesting race from 4th edition finally added, even if the excitement died utterly the second I saw the ridiculous cost! If it goes free in the future then all's fair if this is a 'early access' kinda deal, but not making that clear now is just sleazy marketing.
It's not about "justifying" cost.. There is no value to it. It's purely cosmetic and some little fun items. You have to look at the cost, $100, versus what else is out there. $100 in many games will buy you every race/class/mount you could desire. It'll buy you ESO and four months of subscription. You'd have to drop $100 to play a cool race *and then* still spend more on all their other F2P gotcha's. It's just an awful price point for a free to play game that is already designed to get money out of you.. Microtransactions are supposed to be micro, not the cost of a month's worth of utilities.
I don't know if any game companies have been sued over making "exclusive" items more available. It wouldn't surprise me to learn they have, or that complaints were made and then settled.
I do know that both US and EU government agencies are starting to take a real hard look at "free to play" gaming and they don't like what they see.
lol of course I know that, I'm not that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to know the price is high with the lack of contents to justify the price for the race. But what I am trying to get through is, this is Cryptic pricing and they have already decided on this price point. It's either to take it or leave it that was my point in the previous post. We have plenty of pages, each post stating the ridiculous price. It will not change their mind of the Dragonborn legendary Pack. Just hope in the near future there will be a Dragonborn race only pack if they decided to distribute the race to a wider audience. This pack is for those that wants it first and their choice to buy it.
They need to rename this pack. It's a lackluster pack....with a legendary price. Even download content on console games isn't this badly priced. Maybe "The Bernie Madoff Pack" ? If they change it later and either charge for just the race or add more worthwhile stuff to it. Either way, this shouldn't be made an exclusive race.
So can I, it's an oddly timely miracle!
there's a huge iceberg out there somewhere, and I can't help but think it's heading towards us all.
I don't know if your high offer will work,
Remember the economy ingame are already unbearable.
the economy is one of the main reason on every MMOs,
why players start leaving the game.
All the prices ingame goes higher and higher,
we do Not need more pressure from outside.
1. first the economy inGame will be unbearable.
2. main Chars get hard nerfs and become unusable.
3. The zen Pack are overpriced
Players will think about if it makes sense to continue playing
..or not.
Exactamundo! 57 pages to get to the heart of the matter? Well, it is the internet. The above quote should absolutely be the most focused on post concerning this particular matter. Anything else would be uncivilized
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
There is no need for a Mount or a Companion as I have two account-wide mounts and 7 companions each anyway.
But the free Artefact plus a free 30 slot bag per character would make it a reasonable deal. If it included the per character bag, I'd have bought it already.
~
+1 on the bags
And please do something about the ad-zen economy. The fact that zen is so expensive now that no one will even post offers of selling zen anymore should indicate that the economy is going to hell. One of the things i loved most about this game was that you could buy zen with AD. Theoretically that's still possible, but in practice it's become near impossible.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Lol, just lol. Great comment, you're always worth reading!
This would borderline make the pack worthwhile. Still feels it needs something else like a pet/mount then we are talking turkey.
So i consider this amount a bad joke!:mad:
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke