beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2014
Yeah, people want to know what the art asset is going to look like before they buy it, and all the lore in the world isn't going to tell them that.
The race isn't going to be restricted to just males. That would be weird. They just haven't included any illustrations. I'm pretty sure the one fashion picture is just plain wrong, or the description is ridiculously misleading, and there's a bunch of other information that isn't included in the "detailed" pack description either.
As it stands, I might buy it if/when there's a sale again, but I can't justify it now because what I do know about it is inadequate and nobody is stepping up to clarify.
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
. . . I'll see if I can talk them into releasing more screenshots of the Dragonborn as soon as possible. I cannot promise anything as I am sure much of the data they plan to release prior to them going into Preview Testing is already planned out by Marketing. Just keep in mind what was said by CBruce on Reddit:
. . . As for the other half of this thread's topic, here's the full post he made about the Dragonborn Legend Pack:
We've got to charge for something. Vast majority of our players don't pay anything to play the game. Small percentage pay something, and an even smaller percentage of them will pay a lot. We have to put things in the game to cater to the group of hardcore players with a lot of disposable income. They're huge subsidizers of every one else in the game. Paying for things like Dragonborn as a race is what gets you guys things like Scourge Warlock as a class for "free".
Finding that balance between something unique, desirable, and valuable and putting a hefty pricetag on it versus all of everything else that we give away for free...it's a tough business. One for which (despite what many here might think) there is no correct answer. Some people get upset, some people quit the game, some people love it and throw buckets of money. For every 100 people that refuse to pay for it or threaten to quit the game, there's 2 or 3 who'd happily fork over twice as much.
I think we've been pretty true to our core philosophy of not gating content behind a paywall. If people can't play the game, they're not going to pay for it. New adventure zones, classes, all that jazz. Is a new race "content"? Are mounts and companions? Tough questions. We don't even agree internally. A number of us here don't feel great about charging for a new race, but I think it's fair. That's just business. It costs money to maintain a game like this and create new content. We like to have money to pay for food, clothing, and shelter for our families too. Hell, we've got people working at Cryptic who have paid money into Neverwinter. I bought zen myself once. As an employee, I get a limited amount for free, and I still spent some money to get content that I helped make. Jack's probably dumped thousands into our games.
F2P games are an insane business. They defy conventional and seemingly common sense ideas about how games should be monetized. Our regular business updates and earnings baffles me. And despite what everyone might thinks, PWE doesn't actually dictate how we monetize our game. They certainly offer advice. They provide examples of other games, what they're doing, how it works out for them. But we've demonstrated unique strategies for our games that they take lessons from as well. Every market and game is different. And it's constantly evolving as the game evolves and players cycle in and out. What made the most money at launch isn't what makes the most money today. And it's not likely to be what makes the most money a year from now. So it's really up to us to figure it all out. PWE is way more hands off than WotC. WotC can be very particular about the D&D IP.
So buy, don't buy. I hope it doesn't drive you away from the game. We like all of our players. Even the ones not paying anything. They provide life and community. I wish we could give everyone everything they wanted for free, but then we'd be out of business and no one would get anything.
It's a tough gig.
You personally might like a subscription option (and indeed some of our other games have a hybrid business model), but I believe that overall the conversion to F2P is what best fits the current MMO market.
What you see as "penalizing" others see the opposite. People paying a subscription might feel slighted when the content released for "free" isn't content they want. I'm not familiar with TERA, but I'm willing to bet that what you classify as "real mechanics advantage" is probably heavily debated amongst their community.
Gabe's analogy presents two stark options that result in the same thing, when in reality it's a lot more complicated than that. There's some moving target somewhere in the middle that's more than either end of the spectrum; a 10,000 players paying $150 sweet spot that every business strives to hit. To that effect, there are whole complex formulas, guidelines, and metrics designed to maximize the total amount of revenue coming in.
It's different for everything. As I said, each of our games has a slightly different business model and revenue stream and even Neverwinter has evolved over time (and will likely continue to evolve)
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
. . . As for the other half of this thread's topic, here's the full post he made about the Dragonborn Legend Pack:
The usual marketing bs which completely ignores the actual issue people have.
It is not that dragonborn cost money, but that you can't buy them alone and are forced to buy them together with loads of other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> many people do not want for a price exceeding complete AAA video games.
But I guess Cryptic simply wants to sell Dragonborn for $70 for their profits and are just disguising that by throwing in the other stuff to make the offer look more valuable. Its not as if virtual goods cost them anything.
They should take an example from STO where packs really means "package of stuff you could also buy separately".
After reading CBruce's posts, it seems like this Dragonborn pack is more of an experiment designed to see how many people will pay for cosmetic-oriented packs that don't include the usual mount and companion.
Who knows, they may come to believe it's a failed experiment, or not.
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Well met everyone,
. . . We've poked, prodded and started to open a portal to the Elemental Chaos... Thankfully, Dwight sensed the chaos magic and cast a time stop spell just in time to give us some answers:
. . . There will be Female Dragonborn and they will have feminine anatomy, as depicted in Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition. However, the female art for the Dragonborn is not quite ready to be showcased at this time.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
Note the date listed for the sale: July 22nd. That's two days ago. Do you see it for sale anywhere? Charge Rewards are being ignored. And they have another 'spend your zen for rewards' promotion going. I don't think everyone's operating off the same schedule over there anymore.
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2014
I'd already seen the reddit posts and frankly, they insult my intelligence.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
It is not that dragonborn cost money, but that you can't buy them alone and are forced to buy them together with loads of other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> many people do not want for a price exceeding complete AAA video games.
This is the only thing I'd really like to see addressed. I truly don't care what they charge for the pack they have going now, I just want to be able to buy the Dragonborn race separately. It's been made abundantly clear in this thread that this is the primary issue players have, which was completely ignored by the quoted reddit post above.
So, is Cryptic going to give any word at all on being able to purchase the Dragonborn race as an individual item?
Hope so, rather than giving pat non-responses such as the one above. If I'm not mistaken most posters in this thread agree that we'd absolutely buy it on it's own. I know I would. Given the dismissive "buy, don't buy" comment at the end of the reddit post, however, I'm not holding my breath.
"One day I will leave this world and dream myself to reality"--Chief Crazy Horse
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
This is the only thing I'd really like to see addressed. I truly don't care what they charge for the pack they have going now, I just want to be able to buy the Dragonborn race separately. It's been made abundantly clear in this thread that this is the primary issue players have, which was completely ignored by the quoted reddit post above.
So, is Cryptic going to give any word at all on being able to purchase the Dragonborn race as an individual item?
Hope so, rather than giving pat non-responses such as the one above. If I'm not mistaken most posters in this thread agree that we'd absolutely buy it on it's own. I know I would. Given the dismissive "buy, don't buy" comment at the end of the reddit post, however, I'm not holding my breath.
I bought the full pack already and I wouldn't mind it if, and I suspect they *will* eventually release a "race-only" purchasable pack. The trick is that they have to determine the itemized value of each item in the pack to derive the sales price for the race only. But who am I to surmise on this stuff? I am told (earlier in the thread) that I and people like me have more money than sense.
Okay, then so be it. But apparently I'm still a lot happier than a lot of people here and I'll take happy over...whatever angst this is any day of the week.
I am willing to bet real money (whoops, more money, no sense again) that they will release a race-only option later.
I'd already seen the reddit posts and frankly, they insult my intelligence.
LOL! And this speaks volumes about you. Let's see: Price things that only 2% will buy so 98% can play for free - or go out of business and no game exists at all. Things that make you go hmmmm.
It means nothing to me anymore. And frankly when your last race pack was 60(edit: which a lot of people already consider egregious) dollars this looks like the path you're headed down.
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2014
So, is Cryptic going to give any word at all on being able to purchase the Dragonborn race as an individual item?
They already have. The page says the pack gives exclusive access to the Dragonborn. They would at the very least open a can of worms should they ever go back on that, and very possibly they'd find themselves in court. It won't happen. The price of the pack might go down in the future but you are not going to see the race available any other way.
LOL! And this speaks volumes about you. Let's see: Price things that only 2% will buy so 98% can play for free - or go out of business and no game exists at all. Things that make you go hmmmm.
False dichotomy. Those are not the only options. We know this because not every MMO in existence fits that model. Cryptic actually runs two that don't. In fact, I would go so far as to say the whole "we have to cater to the dumb rich" strategy is likely a self-fulfilling prophecy, assuming that they're serious which I suspect they are not. It's much more likely that they're trying to find out just how hard they can squeeze.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Oh right and a race in Star Trek Online. Your other game. costs a whopping six dollars and is roughly equivalent to a race in this.
That's a very good point actually. Want to unlock a race in STO for you to use? 500 Zen (or was it 600, I dunno). Said race even has unique traits that may only be available for that race (although I'd really have to look to be sure on that one). And don't forget that it costs Zen, and not Real Money, so you can actually earn it via gameplay that won't take you 2 weeks to trade in as their economy isn't borked.
Hi There Is it planned to put the Dragonborn on the preview server soon. I'm keen to taste this character as a scourge warlock !!! I reckon that will be awesome
That's a very good point actually. Want to unlock a race in STO for you to use? 500 Zen (or was it 600, I dunno). Said race even has unique traits that may only be available for that race (although I'd really have to look to be sure on that one). And don't forget that it costs Zen, and not Real Money, so you can actually earn it via gameplay that won't take you 2 weeks to trade in as their economy isn't borked.
Neverwinter? $100.
It's 600 so you technically have to pay 10 bucks for it. But thats still way better than 75
The page says the pack gives exclusive access to the Dragonborn. They would at the very least open a can of worms should they ever go back on that, and very possibly they'd find themselves in court.
Has anybody ever taken a game producer to court over them throwing around the word exclusive? The word doesn't have "for all time" along with it or a footnote indicating that they can never change their minds. Pre-order and collector's edition exclusives seem to be increasingly made available publicly in games after some time passes.
I bought the full pack already and I wouldn't mind it if, and I suspect they *will* eventually release a "race-only" purchasable pack. The trick is that they have to determine the itemized value of each item in the pack to derive the sales price for the race only. But who am I to surmise on this stuff? I am told (earlier in the thread) that I and people like me have more money than sense.
Okay, then so be it. But apparently I'm still a lot happier than a lot of people here and I'll take happy over...whatever angst this is any day of the week.
I am willing to bet real money (whoops, more money, no sense again) that they will release a race-only option later.
LOL! And this speaks volumes about you. Let's see: Price things that only 2% will buy so 98% can play for free - or go out of business and no game exists at all. Things that make you go hmmmm.
That's a very good point actually. Want to unlock a race in STO for you to use? 500 Zen (or was it 600, I dunno). Said race even has unique traits that may only be available for that race (although I'd really have to look to be sure on that one). And don't forget that it costs Zen, and not Real Money, so you can actually earn it via gameplay that won't take you 2 weeks to trade in as their economy isn't borked.
Neverwinter? $100.
People are forgetting the Legacy of Romulus pack ($129 IIRC) and cash, not Zen. It did include every Starship (think: Mount) available to Rommies at the time but not much else (other than -cough- Titles,) and to be fair: they did not proclaim the Reman race was "exclusively available" in that pack, but it was the *only way* to get a Reman race at the time (I don't remember if it's now a stand-alone Zen market race).
Also STO is heavily subsidized by the optional subscription model; a hybrid revenue generation business model that keep Zen Market and Cash-only package prices lower than neverwinter, whereas Neverwinter is 100% free to play with zero subsidization whatsoever and must rely 100% only on Zen Market and cash-only packages as their only revenue source.
I'm just saying here that if we're going to compare the two games (Neverwinter and Star Trek Online) with regard to this package, then do it properly and make it apples-to-apples as much as possible rather than selective comparison, though I do not deny that the Legacy of Romulus package definitely has a far stronger inherent value than any package offered in Neverwinter.
Overall: it terms of value (which is subjective for everyone) I'd say everything offered at Star Trek Online and Neverwinter are relatively close in equal "what you get for your money" paradigms. However, not everyone feels the same way about everything, obviously. But I've been playing Cryptic games for going on six years and they've been pretty darned consistent throughout in terms of pricing, etc.
People are forgetting the Legacy of Romulus pack ($129 IIRC) and cash, not Zen. It did include every Starship (think: Mount) available to Rommies at the time but not much else (other than -cough- Titles,) and to be fair: they did not proclaim the Reman race was "exclusively available" in that pack, but it was the *only way* to get a Reman race at the time (I don't remember if it's now a stand-alone Zen market race).
Also STO is heavily subsidized by the optional subscription model; a hybrid revenue generation business model that keep Zen Market and Cash-only package prices lower than neverwinter, whereas Neverwinter is 100% free to play with zero subsidization whatsoever and must rely 100% only on Zen Market and cash-only packages as their only revenue source.
I'm just saying here that if we're going to compare the two games (Neverwinter and Star Trek Online) with regard to this package, then do it properly and make it apples-to-apples as much as possible rather than selective comparison, though I do not deny that the Legacy of Romulus package definitely has a far stronger inherent value than any package offered in Neverwinter.
Overall: it terms of value (which is subjective for everyone) I'd say everything offered at Star Trek Online and Neverwinter are relatively close in equal "what you get for your money" paradigms. However, not everyone feels the same way about everything, obviously. But I've been playing Cryptic games for going on six years and they've been pretty darned consistent throughout in terms of pricing, etc.
//justsaying
You got a few facts wrong the The "Liberated Borg Reman Bridge Officer" and some tittles where the the only items you could NOT buy (FYI they did later release them to Zen Store)
individual, also there are 10 ships in that pack which all sell for about 25$ US each totaling 250$ US which at this packs current prices of 159.99$ US still makes it a good deal or good value. also comparing ships to mounts is NOT an apples-to-apples comparisons
the only variation in mounts besides looks is movement speed Rank 1 Rank 2 ect where as your ships are your charters in space and that has been said by the STO Dev's many times SO you have Many more variations between a Tier 1 ship and a Tier 5 ship I don't think
I know anyone who would use a Tier 1 ship at Max Rank other then for a Joke. but in Neverwinter you could easily get away with using
a Rank 1 Mount at Max lvl.
I don't think
I know anyone who would use a Tier 1 ship at Max Rank other then for a Joke. but in Neverwinter you could easily get away with using
a Rank 1 Mount at Max lvl.
Your are correct, hence why I say comparing apples-to-apples as much as possible. My point being that people are bringing up STO for comparison and using selective comparison that give STO and unreliable, unfair, incorrect advantage in the comparison. This is all I'm trying to say.
In the end the value of the Dragonborn package is subjective and we each must decide for ourselves. Everyone has their own perspective based on countless life-variables. So I say enough with comparison with other game titles and whatnot. The simple fact is that this is what it is, nothing any of us say will change anything about what is here and now. It may influence future offers from Cryptic, but this one is pretty much set in stone right now.
Your are correct, hence why I say comparing apples-to-apples as much as possible. My point being that people are bringing up STO for comparison and using selective comparison that give STO and unreliable, unfair, incorrect advantage in the comparison. This is all I'm trying to say.
In the end the value of the Dragonborn package is subjective and we each must decide for ourselves. Everyone has their own perspective based on countless life-variables. So I say enough with comparison with other game titles and whatnot. The simple fact is that this is what it is, nothing any of us say will change anything about what is here and now. It may influence future offers from Cryptic, but this one is pretty much set in stone right now.
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
Very well put and I concur. You, sir (or ma'am) are a voice of genuine reason. And to leave this thread with a very positive feeling, I'll make this response in it, to your thoughtful words, be my last and consider the thread closed (for me personally).
Okay, then so be it. But apparently I'm still a lot happier than a lot of people here and I'll take happy over...whatever angst this is any day of the week.
Off topic, but point to be made--> Are you? You might take another look at your most recent posts and consider again. Personally, this internet nonsense (especially in regards to video games) doesn't really matter to me. A bit irritated, sure, but angsty/unhappy because of a game? Heh. You are familiar with the concept of "projection" I'm sure. Might want to consider calming down and taking a more measured approach to your posts. Works wonders.
Edit -- Good advice for quite a few forum goers, by the way
"One day I will leave this world and dream myself to reality"--Chief Crazy Horse
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
See, I would be satisfied (i.e. spending money) if either of these scenarios came to pass. It's not the $75 that bug me, it's that I can't justify it.
Why should anyone buying the overpriced "exclusive" version get mad if they later decide to offer the race for a lower price alone? That would mean I should get angry because Steam decided to sell Bioshock Infinite at a 75% off sale price because I bought the overpriced "exclusive" pre-order Songbird Edition. It's ridiculous. You made your choice to buy something expensive and overpriced. So did I with the Songbird, but I won't sit here and try to feel better by claiming it wasn't overpriced. It was, but I am still happy to have bought it. Just as I do hope those who will buy this package won't regret it.
BUT, do you REALLY think it's fair to cut off most of the playerbase from a whole race? Why should we who live on minimum wage and can't dish out $100 at one time get punished for it? Sure, DO cater to the few rich people who choose to play F2P games instead of subscription MMO's. But give them some kind of fluff packages, not an "elite player race". I can't always pay $15 a month on a game so I play F2P and then pay maybe $10 one month and $20 a few months later. I have just as much right as rich 50 year old's without mortgages to have access to all races in this game. I am perfectly willing to pay to unlock it, I just wont spend a month worth of food money. I don't enjoy starving.
Very well put and I concur. You, sir (or ma'am) are a voice of genuine reason. And to leave this thread with a very positive feeling, I'll make this response in it, to your thoughtful words, be my last and consider the thread closed (for me personally).
Yes please do, I for one am getting tired of you calling anyone who disagrees with you "jealous", "shrill", or "disingenuous", yet nobody was name-slinging till you arrived. I love how anybody who DOES agree with you is "a voice of reason" and having "more integrity" than other commenters. Such arrogance!
You're in a minority here, and that's for a reason. You can justify your own reasoning, but trying to dismantle the reasoning of a communicative and concerned majority with ad hominem attacks just makes you look petty and small.
Comments
The race isn't going to be restricted to just males. That would be weird. They just haven't included any illustrations. I'm pretty sure the one fashion picture is just plain wrong, or the description is ridiculously misleading, and there's a bunch of other information that isn't included in the "detailed" pack description either.
As it stands, I might buy it if/when there's a sale again, but I can't justify it now because what I do know about it is inadequate and nobody is stepping up to clarify.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
. . . As for the other half of this thread's topic, here's the full post he made about the Dragonborn Legend Pack:
. . . Here's his reply to a poster:
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
The usual marketing bs which completely ignores the actual issue people have.
It is not that dragonborn cost money, but that you can't buy them alone and are forced to buy them together with loads of other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> many people do not want for a price exceeding complete AAA video games.
But I guess Cryptic simply wants to sell Dragonborn for $70 for their profits and are just disguising that by throwing in the other stuff to make the offer look more valuable. Its not as if virtual goods cost them anything.
They should take an example from STO where packs really means "package of stuff you could also buy separately".
Who knows, they may come to believe it's a failed experiment, or not.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
. . . We've poked, prodded and started to open a portal to the Elemental Chaos... Thankfully, Dwight sensed the chaos magic and cast a time stop spell just in time to give us some answers:
. . . There will be Female Dragonborn and they will have feminine anatomy, as depicted in Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition. However, the female art for the Dragonborn is not quite ready to be showcased at this time.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
This is the only thing I'd really like to see addressed. I truly don't care what they charge for the pack they have going now, I just want to be able to buy the Dragonborn race separately. It's been made abundantly clear in this thread that this is the primary issue players have, which was completely ignored by the quoted reddit post above.
So, is Cryptic going to give any word at all on being able to purchase the Dragonborn race as an individual item?
Hope so, rather than giving pat non-responses such as the one above. If I'm not mistaken most posters in this thread agree that we'd absolutely buy it on it's own. I know I would. Given the dismissive "buy, don't buy" comment at the end of the reddit post, however, I'm not holding my breath.
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
I bought the full pack already and I wouldn't mind it if, and I suspect they *will* eventually release a "race-only" purchasable pack. The trick is that they have to determine the itemized value of each item in the pack to derive the sales price for the race only. But who am I to surmise on this stuff? I am told (earlier in the thread) that I and people like me have more money than sense.
Okay, then so be it. But apparently I'm still a lot happier than a lot of people here and I'll take happy over...whatever angst this is any day of the week.
I am willing to bet real money (whoops, more money, no sense again) that they will release a race-only option later.
LOL! And this speaks volumes about you. Let's see: Price things that only 2% will buy so 98% can play for free - or go out of business and no game exists at all. Things that make you go hmmmm.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/12/15/free-to-play-mechwarrior-online-offends-players-with-500-golden-mechs/
It means nothing to me anymore. And frankly when your last race pack was 60(edit: which a lot of people already consider egregious) dollars this looks like the path you're headed down.
They already have. The page says the pack gives exclusive access to the Dragonborn. They would at the very least open a can of worms should they ever go back on that, and very possibly they'd find themselves in court. It won't happen. The price of the pack might go down in the future but you are not going to see the race available any other way.
False dichotomy. Those are not the only options. We know this because not every MMO in existence fits that model. Cryptic actually runs two that don't. In fact, I would go so far as to say the whole "we have to cater to the dumb rich" strategy is likely a self-fulfilling prophecy, assuming that they're serious which I suspect they are not. It's much more likely that they're trying to find out just how hard they can squeeze.
Neverwinter? $100.
Hi There
It's 600 so you technically have to pay 10 bucks for it. But thats still way better than 75
People are forgetting the Legacy of Romulus pack ($129 IIRC) and cash, not Zen. It did include every Starship (think: Mount) available to Rommies at the time but not much else (other than -cough- Titles,) and to be fair: they did not proclaim the Reman race was "exclusively available" in that pack, but it was the *only way* to get a Reman race at the time (I don't remember if it's now a stand-alone Zen market race).
Also STO is heavily subsidized by the optional subscription model; a hybrid revenue generation business model that keep Zen Market and Cash-only package prices lower than neverwinter, whereas Neverwinter is 100% free to play with zero subsidization whatsoever and must rely 100% only on Zen Market and cash-only packages as their only revenue source.
I'm just saying here that if we're going to compare the two games (Neverwinter and Star Trek Online) with regard to this package, then do it properly and make it apples-to-apples as much as possible rather than selective comparison, though I do not deny that the Legacy of Romulus package definitely has a far stronger inherent value than any package offered in Neverwinter.
Overall: it terms of value (which is subjective for everyone) I'd say everything offered at Star Trek Online and Neverwinter are relatively close in equal "what you get for your money" paradigms. However, not everyone feels the same way about everything, obviously. But I've been playing Cryptic games for going on six years and they've been pretty darned consistent throughout in terms of pricing, etc.
//justsaying
You got a few facts wrong the The "Liberated Borg Reman Bridge Officer" and some tittles where the the only items you could NOT buy (FYI they did later release them to Zen Store)
individual, also there are 10 ships in that pack which all sell for about 25$ US each totaling 250$ US which at this packs current prices of 159.99$ US still makes it a good deal or good value. also comparing ships to mounts is NOT an apples-to-apples comparisons
the only variation in mounts besides looks is movement speed Rank 1 Rank 2 ect where as your ships are your charters in space and that has been said by the STO Dev's many times SO you have Many more variations between a Tier 1 ship and a Tier 5 ship I don't think
I know anyone who would use a Tier 1 ship at Max Rank other then for a Joke. but in Neverwinter you could easily get away with using
a Rank 1 Mount at Max lvl.
Your are correct, hence why I say comparing apples-to-apples as much as possible. My point being that people are bringing up STO for comparison and using selective comparison that give STO and unreliable, unfair, incorrect advantage in the comparison. This is all I'm trying to say.
In the end the value of the Dragonborn package is subjective and we each must decide for ourselves. Everyone has their own perspective based on countless life-variables. So I say enough with comparison with other game titles and whatnot. The simple fact is that this is what it is, nothing any of us say will change anything about what is here and now. It may influence future offers from Cryptic, but this one is pretty much set in stone right now.
Precisely - STO is STO and Neverwinter is Neverwinter.
Here's where to buy it:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/game-pack/detail/495-dragonborn-legend-pack
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
- Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
- Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.Ty, but link is broken for me
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Very well put and I concur. You, sir (or ma'am) are a voice of genuine reason. And to leave this thread with a very positive feeling, I'll make this response in it, to your thoughtful words, be my last and consider the thread closed (for me personally).
Off topic, but point to be made--> Are you? You might take another look at your most recent posts and consider again. Personally, this internet nonsense (especially in regards to video games) doesn't really matter to me. A bit irritated, sure, but angsty/unhappy because of a game? Heh. You are familiar with the concept of "projection" I'm sure. Might want to consider calming down and taking a more measured approach to your posts. Works wonders.
Edit -- Good advice for quite a few forum goers, by the way
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
See, I would be satisfied (i.e. spending money) if either of these scenarios came to pass. It's not the $75 that bug me, it's that I can't justify it.
BUT, do you REALLY think it's fair to cut off most of the playerbase from a whole race? Why should we who live on minimum wage and can't dish out $100 at one time get punished for it? Sure, DO cater to the few rich people who choose to play F2P games instead of subscription MMO's. But give them some kind of fluff packages, not an "elite player race". I can't always pay $15 a month on a game so I play F2P and then pay maybe $10 one month and $20 a few months later. I have just as much right as rich 50 year old's without mortgages to have access to all races in this game. I am perfectly willing to pay to unlock it, I just wont spend a month worth of food money. I don't enjoy starving.
Yes please do, I for one am getting tired of you calling anyone who disagrees with you "jealous", "shrill", or "disingenuous", yet nobody was name-slinging till you arrived. I love how anybody who DOES agree with you is "a voice of reason" and having "more integrity" than other commenters. Such arrogance!
You're in a minority here, and that's for a reason. You can justify your own reasoning, but trying to dismantle the reasoning of a communicative and concerned majority with ad hominem attacks just makes you look petty and small.