I personally disagree with all the people saying there shouldn't be an AD sink in refining. The problem is there aren't enough AD sinks in the game and AD just keeps going into the economy. Much of the complaint about AD sink was about how much AD it cost to make rank 5 and 6 enchantments. Well the simple solution is to shift the AD cost up to higher ranks, so that in the new system, every single rank of enchantment will be cheaper to make than an enchantment at the same rank in the old system. If there is a real flaw to the new refining system (part 1), it was that certain ranks cost more than before, even though towards the higher ranks the cost dropped dramatically.
No matter how you look at it (if you can see) the new system is much cheaper than the old system, while doing away with so much grinding for enchantments and providing a much needed way for AD to be removed from the economy. I honestly believe that AD sinks will help keep the economy sane, otherwise as time goes on we'll have double or triple the amount of AD required to buy the same things, and zen to AD ratio permanently at 500:1. If the AD cost to refining is too high, then simply lower it, but I don't see any good in completely removing it. The only other real AD sink in the game right now is cats and several tens of thousands of AD for unlocking campaign stuff, and you can only get so many cats...
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asunazysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
just for clarification.... how many vorpal enchant do i need in order to have greater vorpal? in test server from lesser vorpal to vorpal enchant i still need 1 lesser vorpal as catalyst item and 1 greater mark of potency.. i havent try from vorpal to greater... thanks!
Note: just need the number of vorpals needed thanks!
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I personally disagree with all the people saying there shouldn't be an AD sink in refining. The problem is there aren't enough AD sinks in the game and AD just keeps going into the economy.
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
What about having new Quest just to get catalysts? Have a quest that is not a daily quest, but similar to the length of time it takes to repeat the quest, Arcane Reservoir. Here you can get a chance to get any rank of catalysts, except it's a random chance.
The new mini dungeons in the dread ring have purple quality catalysts as rewards if you purchase a key and run them on certain days of the week , it would be better though if you got an option of what quality catalyst you wanted as a reward since I have a bunch of purple and green ones now but have yet to see a blue one drop( other than the ones in the wondrous bazaar)
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
Indeed. It's not entirely about how high the prices/fees are either. If something feels like a rip-off, people just won't spend their money on it, even if they have that money.
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That doesn't like you're talking about the new refinement system, because a) it will be cheaper and b) unslotting only costs 2.50 gold. I've no clue where your information is coming from, but definitely not from first-hand experience on the preview shard.
Yes you are right: i tried that system only very fast and not well because after the shadowmantle patch my preview neverwinter are giving to me a lot of problems with terrible lag and high fps.
a) For that I could see, to upgrade enchantments and runestones you need much more enchant/runestone than before. You burn everything to make ref point for ONE enchants, lets say a dark ench rank 3, and if you have another dark enchants rank 3 it have zero ref point. So i'm warried about the fact that i will never improve more my enchantments couse i play a number of hours that leave space to my real life.
b) I missed the information about gold instead of ad to unslot, ty.
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...]
a) For that I could see, to upgrade enchantments and runestones you need much more enchant/runestone than before. You burn everything to make ref point for ONE enchants, lets say a dark ench rank 3, and if you have another dark enchants rank 3 it have zero ref point. So i'm warried about the fact that i will never improve more my enchantments couse i play a number of hours that leave space to my real life.
I'm currently preparing a posting for the required items to upgrade enchantments...
Indeed. It's not entirely about how high the prices/fees are either. If something feels like a rip-off, people just won't spend their money on it, even if they have that money.
Incredibly true.
There really are two types of marketing failures in that regard, making prices too high and making prices feel too high.
However, Feedback: Post Changes THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
You have proved you do listen to the player base and have all but removed any issue I had with the system. I still don't like the catalysts. I still think they are a complicated extra fluff. I still feel they should not be required prior to rank 5 enchantments.
But the removal of the AD fee has improved the system tenfold.
So thank you for listening.
AD sinks are good for the economy but they should always remain optional because when power is concerned you draw a line between the haves and the have nots. I really wish you take this feedback and backlash beyond the refinement system because the entire reason we don't spend our AD in any of the AD sinks is because they are way, way overpriced.
Basically you use enchantments to apply "Refining Points" to upgrade existing enchants. So in order to figure out how many enchantments you need per level simply divide the 'Points Needed' by the Refining Points each enchantment is worth. Just note that a matching enchant/rune is worth double RP which is why there are two columns.
Additionally you do not need to do a linear path as you do now. You can gain refining points by throwing any level enchant into another enchantment.
So just to show you how much better, as far as enchantment requirements, this new system, if we assume the is a 100% upgrade chance the number of rank 4 enchantments needed to upgrade to rank 10...
Old System: 4,096 (must be the same type)
New System (matching): 2,287
New System (Different): 4,574
The number of enchants required has been reduced drastically especially since there is less points of fusions/upgrades and thus less loss while upgrading. It's much less intuitive. The catalysts are an icky iffy situation...
But overall the system was always at least comparable to what we already had...but the AD costs were monstrous. Since they have been removed all I can really say I don't like is the catalysts especially under rank 5.
just for clarification.... how many vorpal enchant do i need in order to have greater vorpal?
Ok, let me provide you with my calculations about Weapon and Armor Enchantments:
Weapon/Armor Enchantment comparison chart of refining (new) vs. fusing (old) -- total amount of items needed
System Refining Fusing Refining Fusing Refining Fusing Refining Fusing
To Rank Lesser Lesser Normal Normal Greater Greater Perfect Perfect
RP cost
0
--
34,560
--
172,800
--
656,640
--
Matching shards
4
4
8
16
16
64
32
256
Non-Matching shards
--
16
--
80
--
304
--
Coalescent wards
1
1
3
5
7
21
15
85
Greater Mark of Potency
0
--
1
--
4
--
10
--
In order to create the Lesser version of the enchantments, you need 4 shards of the same type (matching)--hence the row "Matching shards".
For the refinement points (RP) you can either use any other shard (aka non-matching) or use matching shards. If you use matching shards, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-matching shards"--e. g. for a "Greater Feytouched Enchantment" you would need in total 56 "Shard of Feytouched Enchantment" (16 + 80/2 = 56). In regards to the amount of shards you need: if you keep on using the same type of shards, you will need less, only if you use other type of shards, you will need more.
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
Note: just need the number of vorpals needed thanks!
I don't recommend using Vorpal shards, because they are the most expensive: around 20,000 ADs for a shard, which would mean--if you use Vorpal shards for Vorpal enchantments--about 4.6 AD/RP. Most of the other shards are around 2,000 ADs/shard, which means 0.92 AD/RP. So using Vorpal shards to "level up" your Vorpal enchantment would mean "paying" 5 times the amount in ADs. Even if you do not consider the AD value of shards, it is a lot easier to e. g. get Terror shards as it is to get Vorpal shards.
Bug:
Upgrading Shards to Lessers still has Upgrade Cost of 25k
Just to put in the required format: Bug: Refinement Window: Lesser Weapon/Armor Enchantment There is still a cost of 25,000 Astral Diamonds to upgrade any Weapon/Armor shard to the Lesser Enchantment version. As there are no other cost of Astral Diamonds on all other steps, I consider this a bug.
Basically you use enchantments to apply "Refining Points" to upgrade existing enchants. So in order to figure out how many enchantments you need per level simply divide the 'Points Needed' by the Refining Points each enchantment is worth. Just note that a matching enchant/rune is worth double RP which is why there are two columns.
Additionally you do not need to do a linear path as you do now. You can gain refining points by throwing any level enchant into another enchantment.
So just to show you how much better, as far as enchantment requirements, this new system, if we assume the is a 100% upgrade chance the number of rank 4 enchantments needed to upgrade to rank 10...
Old System: 4,096 (must be the same type)
New System (matching): 2,287
New System (Different): 4,574
The number of enchants required has been reduced drastically especially since there is less points of fusions/upgrades and thus less loss while upgrading. It's much less intuitive. The catalysts are an icky iffy situation...
But overall the system was always at least comparable to what we already had...but the AD costs were monstrous. Since they have been removed all I can really say I don't like is the catalysts especially under rank 5.
I still don't get it. Does it cost more or less? It sounds like more + even more additional items. The fact that i'm able to use any type of enchantment to raise another gem's level sounds great, at first. BUT right now, i can fuse those gems and sell them for AD. PLUS get the one i wanted at the same time.
So in the future, i cannot do that anymore... i won't make AD while farming + i cannot just fuse anymore... smells fishy to me.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited November 2013
Half of the required enchantments is a win no matter what way you cut it.
Half enchantments means half the cost.
The catalysts are irritating fluff...but they can be gathered. And if you don't consider grinding an additional 2K rank 4 enchantment drops as problematic then needing some catalysts should be nothing to grind out comparatively...
But even if you paid for them in the Wondrous Bazaar it wouldn't be worth as much as the 2K Rank 4 Enchants.
But you are likely correct about the AD. Since AD won't be required to increase the rank or remove the enchantments from slots along with a general decrease of enchatments required it will be a massive blow to the enchantment values. Enchantments, particularly high level enchantments, will be far cheaper.
Thank you that now i can unslot so many lost enchants (tho dont know if i should thank you for doing what u should have done to begin with, but i;m of high spirits so thank you). Thank you for making high rank enchants more accessible (r7-r10), tho i dont rly see them as half price as more of a 30%-40% reduction (since are half the enchants but marks adds to the cost). Thank you for bringing the count of Cwards to something decent, i do hope now i can use the store similar to Preservation Wards and also have a reason to buy Enchanted Keys. Regarding Marks as drops i have a split opinion... Good to stimulate people play content but will help more the ones who cheat the content and in that regard: FH/Karr/ToS/MC/CN/Spell are all being abused (maybe some others, but i havent been in others lately). Refining system i hate... is something i am getting dizzy everytime i read about it. So all in all i think this is a solution to many problems but i dont find it elegant! I dont look at it as an increase in my ad count, but more as: will people use this more then the previous system?! hard to tell, is way too clunky for someone new to the game for sure.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...] Regarding Marks as drops i have a split opinion... Good to stimulate people play content but will help more the ones who cheat the content and in that regard: FH/Karr/ToS/MC/CN/Spell are all being abused (maybe some others, but i havent been in others lately).
IMHO, if people are going to farm for "Mark of Potency", they are going to use the "Cloak Tower"--which is the fasted dungeon to complete by far, IMHO.
I still don't get it. Does it cost more or less? It sounds like more + even more additional items. The fact that i'm able to use any type of enchantment to raise another gem's level sounds great, at first. BUT right now, i can fuse those gems and sell them for AD. PLUS get the one i wanted at the same time.[...]
I started the refinement process at "to rank 5", because everything below is a regular drop. Therefore you do not need to upgrade the enchantments starting at rank 1--and I wouldn't recommend doing it2.
For the calculation of the "Non-Match. ench./rs." I used the RP value of non-matching (not the same type) enchantments/runestones. I also used the value of rank 4's (135 RPs)--but you can also use rank 1 (5 RP), 2 (15 RP) or 3 (45 RP) as a source for the required RPs.
For calculating the amount of "P.Ward" required, I defined, that 1 "P.Ward" is required from rank 4 to 5, 3 for rank 5 to 6, 3 from 6 to 8, 4 from 8 to 9 and 9 from rank 9 to rank 10. The reason of the difference in the total amount of "P.Ward" between the "Refining" and the "Fusing" system, is that with the "Refining" system you need less "upgrade" steps (e. g. 3 vs. 21 steps from rank 4 to rank 7).
For the RP, you can either use any other enchantment/runestone (aka non-matching) or use matching enchantments/runestones. If you use matching enchantments/runestones, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-Match. ench./rs."--e. g. for a "Dark Enchantment, Rank 9" you would need in total 896 "Dark Enchantment, Rank 4" (4 + 1,782/2 = 896). In regards to the amount of enchantments/runestones you need: if you keep on using the same type of enchantments/runestones, you will need less, only if you use other type of enchantments/runestones, you will need more. But, the amount of matching runestones till rank 7 stays the same. You need less "P.Wards", but therefore you need some "Mark of Potency".
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
Footnotes: 1) The "Rank 7" row is there just for reference, as you would need two rank 7 enchantments to upgrade to rank 8, two rank 8 to upgrade to rank 9 and two rank 9 to upgrade to rank 10. The required amount of items is included in the total amount of items.
2) If you have an abundance of "Minor Mark of Potency", I would recommend to upgrade rank 1 and rank 2 to rank 3. You would only need 1 enchantment/runestone and 1 or 2 "Minor Mark of Potency", but you would triple the RP value of the lower rank. On second thought, I think the "Mark of Potency" have a RP value as well? Need to check it later on the Preview...
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
This is totally the problem. The cost of the companion/mount upgrades are insane when you compare it to epic quality ones you can just purchase from the AH or the Zen shop. Cut the cost at least in half and you'd have more people upgrading. I mean I can see why they are like that, since they don't want people upgrading and cutting into the purchase of items through the store, but I don't think they'd lose that much business.
But this feedback was given many times so I think as it is now is how it will be forever.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
This is totally the problem. The cost of the companion/mount upgrades are insane when you compare it to epic quality ones you can just purchase from the AH or the Zen shop. Cut the cost at least in half and you'd have more people upgrading. I mean I can see why they are like that, since they don't want people upgrading and cutting into the purchase of items through the store, but I don't think they'd lose that much business.
But this feedback was given many times so I think as it is now is how it will be forever.
You also have to consider that if the upgrades were more reasonable, more people would buy Zen to convert to AD to purchase these upgrades, so you'd have some balance there, and likely PWE making MORE money.
Half of the required enchantments is a win no matter what way you cut it.
Half enchantments means half the cost.
The catalysts are irritating fluff...but they can be gathered. And if you don't consider grinding an additional 2K rank 4 enchantment drops as problematic then needing some catalysts should be nothing to grind out comparatively...
But even if you paid for them in the Wondrous Bazaar it wouldn't be worth as much as the 2K Rank 4 Enchants.
But you are likely correct about the AD. Since AD won't be required to increase the rank or remove the enchantments from slots along with a general decrease of enchatments required it will be a massive blow to the enchantment values. Enchantments, particularly high level enchantments, will be far cheaper.
I had to try it out. My english is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and i couldn't understand the system by just reading about it x.x Now i do and i'm LOVING it. It is the best thing that i have seen so far, on the preview patch notes. If cryptic was a dude, he'd be one or two beers richer by now, for sure.
How about allowing players to convert enchants to points and have a pool of upgrading points so when you upgrade something you can just fill it to max without messing around? That way it has the exact amount every time and should stack correctly every time.
Pretty much this. It can be set up as currency and that way you just refine everything you get, it goes into the pool and you can upgrade whichever enchants with exactly the right amount. Would be way more simple than current.
I noticed that without the Refining Stones the Catalyst Enchantments added to Refinement Window are Consumed.
This is horrible and a simple mistake will wipe them out. Every new player will loose his Enchantments in the Catalyst area because no Refining stone was not there. Make it so that without it just says missing component or some similar message.
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I noticed that without the Refining Stones the Catalyst Enchantments added to Refinement Window are Consumed.
This is horrible and a simple mistake will wipe them out. Every new player will loose his Enchantments in the Catalyst area because no Refining stone was not there. Make it so that without it just says missing component or some similar message.
+1 for that. Happened to me several times in the old system as well to sometime fuse without having a ward in the slot and lost the enchants. Please add a check box so we can check or uncheck if we want warning messages or not!
Feedback: General - slotting/unslotting Just a little bit of feedback based on my experiences whilst playing the new Hunter class.
I'm finding the slotting/unslotting process to be quite high on micromanagment, this is only because gear is getting replaced frequently whilst leveling. I'm also slotting what I have in my inventory rather than targeted increases to certain attributes, so I don't always remember what I've slotted where. This isn't really sepcific to this new version, it's just that with the AD cost I never bothered unslotting enchants in the past.
I have a few UI suggestions as a result (please let me know if something similar already exists):
1. When you mouse over a piece of equipment it would be useful to be able to see how much RP the enchant has and the total amount needed for the next level, similar to what you get when you mouse over an enchantment in your inventory, e.g. 0/180 for rank 3 --> 4.
2. It may be useful if the white square on an item that shows it has an enchantment slotted was colour coded to the type of enchantment, e.g red, silver, blue, yellow. You can already tell by mousing over, this is just a slightly quicker visual option.
I had a third but I've forgotten it overnight, I'll add it later if I remember what it was.
Bug: Refined some Normal Soulforged only with matching shards. After 24 shards it should be upgradeable with 0 rp to next rank. But sometimes it didnt need 24 shards like 5 shards would give rp for 5.5 shards. Sometimes they had 2160 rp plus to next rank after 24 shards. Which cant be when every matching shard gives 4320. Somehow the bonusses seem to be calculated twice or somewhat. I used the button to fill out all slots on a stack of 20 soulforge shards and the bug is repeatable but doesnt happen always.
Personally, although it is well done, it's still a bit on the costly side. Yes, it makes sense to take longer, and or cost more as the item ranks increase, but 102k exp for item to get to next level when others of same rank are required, and they only grant around 1500 exp to it per piece, is very costly.
Example Lesser Tene to Normal Tene = 102k exp/RP Rank 6 Silvery = 2160 to total cost, that's 47.22 Rank 6 Silvery to get a Lesser to the point of being up-gradable, then you still need 2 Greater Mark of Potency, and another Lesser of the same exact type as Catalysts. Current values (which will go up when this goes live) so you are looking at 47.22 R6 Sil @ roughly 125k avg, = 5,90,2500 and an additional Lesser at avg 150k = 6,052,500 total, not including the cost of another 2 Greater Mark of Potency, plus an "Optional" Coalescent Ward = 150k. So not including any additional A.D cost, or the potential cost of GMoP, you are still looking at a grand total of around 6,202,500 A.D for an item which on the market/A.H is currently going for an average of 540k / 540,000, effectively increasing cost by almost 11.5x
In the end, if this goes live as is, it is going to force many or the lazier, and less moral players to re-install, or install, farming BOTs, which is going to add more destruction to the already weak, and terribly unstable player economy (what economy there is).
Comments
No matter how you look at it (if you can see) the new system is much cheaper than the old system, while doing away with so much grinding for enchantments and providing a much needed way for AD to be removed from the economy. I honestly believe that AD sinks will help keep the economy sane, otherwise as time goes on we'll have double or triple the amount of AD required to buy the same things, and zen to AD ratio permanently at 500:1. If the AD cost to refining is too high, then simply lower it, but I don't see any good in completely removing it. The only other real AD sink in the game right now is cats and several tens of thousands of AD for unlocking campaign stuff, and you can only get so many cats...
Note: just need the number of vorpals needed thanks!
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The new mini dungeons in the dread ring have purple quality catalysts as rewards if you purchase a key and run them on certain days of the week , it would be better though if you got an option of what quality catalyst you wanted as a reward since I have a bunch of purple and green ones now but have yet to see a blue one drop( other than the ones in the wondrous bazaar)
And that's the best part. Can't wait until this hits live.
Yes you are right: i tried that system only very fast and not well because after the shadowmantle patch my preview neverwinter are giving to me a lot of problems with terrible lag and high fps.
a) For that I could see, to upgrade enchantments and runestones you need much more enchant/runestone than before. You burn everything to make ref point for ONE enchants, lets say a dark ench rank 3, and if you have another dark enchants rank 3 it have zero ref point. So i'm warried about the fact that i will never improve more my enchantments couse i play a number of hours that leave space to my real life.
b) I missed the information about gold instead of ad to unslot, ty.
I think the question is, does it cosume 4 rank 3 gems to fuse a rank 4? Or less? Or more?
Is it like this?
4 rank 1's = 1 rank 2
4 rank 2's = 1 rank 3
4 rank 3's = 1 rank 4
so on.
Incredibly true.
There really are two types of marketing failures in that regard, making prices too high and making prices feel too high.
However,
Feedback: Post Changes
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
You have proved you do listen to the player base and have all but removed any issue I had with the system. I still don't like the catalysts. I still think they are a complicated extra fluff. I still feel they should not be required prior to rank 5 enchantments.
But the removal of the AD fee has improved the system tenfold.
So thank you for listening.
AD sinks are good for the economy but they should always remain optional because when power is concerned you draw a line between the haves and the have nots. I really wish you take this feedback and backlash beyond the refinement system because the entire reason we don't spend our AD in any of the AD sinks is because they are way, way overpriced.
It's not that simple.
Check out this chart:
Refining Chart Courtesy of The Diamond Club
Basically you use enchantments to apply "Refining Points" to upgrade existing enchants. So in order to figure out how many enchantments you need per level simply divide the 'Points Needed' by the Refining Points each enchantment is worth. Just note that a matching enchant/rune is worth double RP which is why there are two columns.
Additionally you do not need to do a linear path as you do now. You can gain refining points by throwing any level enchant into another enchantment.
So just to show you how much better, as far as enchantment requirements, this new system, if we assume the is a 100% upgrade chance the number of rank 4 enchantments needed to upgrade to rank 10...
Old System: 4,096 (must be the same type)
New System (matching): 2,287
New System (Different): 4,574
The number of enchants required has been reduced drastically especially since there is less points of fusions/upgrades and thus less loss while upgrading. It's much less intuitive. The catalysts are an icky iffy situation...
But overall the system was always at least comparable to what we already had...but the AD costs were monstrous. Since they have been removed all I can really say I don't like is the catalysts especially under rank 5.
Weapon/Armor Enchantment comparison chart of refining (new) vs. fusing (old) -- total amount of items needed
System
Refining
Fusing
Refining
Fusing
Refining
Fusing
Refining
Fusing
To Rank
Lesser
Lesser
Normal
Normal
Greater
Greater
Perfect
Perfect
RP cost
0
--
34,560
--
172,800
--
656,640
--
Matching shards
4
4
8
16
16
64
32
256
Non-Matching shards
--
16
--
80
--
304
--
Coalescent wards
1
1
3
5
7
21
15
85
Greater Mark of Potency
0
--
1
--
4
--
10
--
In order to create the Lesser version of the enchantments, you need 4 shards of the same type (matching)--hence the row "Matching shards".
For the refinement points (RP) you can either use any other shard (aka non-matching) or use matching shards. If you use matching shards, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-matching shards"--e. g. for a "Greater Feytouched Enchantment" you would need in total 56 "Shard of Feytouched Enchantment" (16 + 80/2 = 56). In regards to the amount of shards you need: if you keep on using the same type of shards, you will need less, only if you use other type of shards, you will need more.
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
I don't recommend using Vorpal shards, because they are the most expensive: around 20,000 ADs for a shard, which would mean--if you use Vorpal shards for Vorpal enchantments--about 4.6 AD/RP. Most of the other shards are around 2,000 ADs/shard, which means 0.92 AD/RP. So using Vorpal shards to "level up" your Vorpal enchantment would mean "paying" 5 times the amount in ADs. Even if you do not consider the AD value of shards, it is a lot easier to e. g. get Terror shards as it is to get Vorpal shards.
Bug: Refinement Window: Lesser Weapon/Armor Enchantment
There is still a cost of 25,000 Astral Diamonds to upgrade any Weapon/Armor shard to the Lesser Enchantment version. As there are no other cost of Astral Diamonds on all other steps, I consider this a bug.
I still don't get it. Does it cost more or less? It sounds like more + even more additional items. The fact that i'm able to use any type of enchantment to raise another gem's level sounds great, at first. BUT right now, i can fuse those gems and sell them for AD. PLUS get the one i wanted at the same time.
So in the future, i cannot do that anymore... i won't make AD while farming + i cannot just fuse anymore... smells fishy to me.
Half enchantments means half the cost.
The catalysts are irritating fluff...but they can be gathered. And if you don't consider grinding an additional 2K rank 4 enchantment drops as problematic then needing some catalysts should be nothing to grind out comparatively...
But even if you paid for them in the Wondrous Bazaar it wouldn't be worth as much as the 2K Rank 4 Enchants.
But you are likely correct about the AD. Since AD won't be required to increase the rank or remove the enchantments from slots along with a general decrease of enchatments required it will be a massive blow to the enchantment values. Enchantments, particularly high level enchantments, will be far cheaper.
Abbreviations used:
(Normal) Enchantment/Runestone comparison chart of new (refining) vs. old (fusing)-- total amount of items needed
System
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
To Rank
5
5
6
6
7
7
8
8
9
9
10
10
Match. ench./rs.
1
4
1
16
1
64
2
256
4
1,024
8
4,096
Non-Match. ench./rs.
6
--
30
--
123
--
508
--
1,784
--
5,872
--
Rank 71
--
--
--
--
--
--
1
--
2
--
4
--
Lesser MoP
2
--
2
--
2
--
4
--
8
--
16
--
MoP
--
1
--
3
--
6
--
12
--
24
--
Greater MoP
--
--
--
1
--
4
--
10
--
P.Ward
1
1
4
13
7
25
10
37
14
53
23
89
I started the refinement process at "to rank 5", because everything below is a regular drop. Therefore you do not need to upgrade the enchantments starting at rank 1--and I wouldn't recommend doing it2.
For the calculation of the "Non-Match. ench./rs." I used the RP value of non-matching (not the same type) enchantments/runestones. I also used the value of rank 4's (135 RPs)--but you can also use rank 1 (5 RP), 2 (15 RP) or 3 (45 RP) as a source for the required RPs.
For calculating the amount of "P.Ward" required, I defined, that 1 "P.Ward" is required from rank 4 to 5, 3 for rank 5 to 6, 3 from 6 to 8, 4 from 8 to 9 and 9 from rank 9 to rank 10. The reason of the difference in the total amount of "P.Ward" between the "Refining" and the "Fusing" system, is that with the "Refining" system you need less "upgrade" steps (e. g. 3 vs. 21 steps from rank 4 to rank 7).
For the RP, you can either use any other enchantment/runestone (aka non-matching) or use matching enchantments/runestones. If you use matching enchantments/runestones, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-Match. ench./rs."--e. g. for a "Dark Enchantment, Rank 9" you would need in total 896 "Dark Enchantment, Rank 4" (4 + 1,782/2 = 896). In regards to the amount of enchantments/runestones you need: if you keep on using the same type of enchantments/runestones, you will need less, only if you use other type of enchantments/runestones, you will need more. But, the amount of matching runestones till rank 7 stays the same. You need less "P.Wards", but therefore you need some "Mark of Potency".
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
Footnotes:
1) The "Rank 7" row is there just for reference, as you would need two rank 7 enchantments to upgrade to rank 8, two rank 8 to upgrade to rank 9 and two rank 9 to upgrade to rank 10. The required amount of items is included in the total amount of items.
2) If you have an abundance of "Minor Mark of Potency", I would recommend to upgrade rank 1 and rank 2 to rank 3. You would only need 1 enchantment/runestone and 1 or 2 "Minor Mark of Potency", but you would triple the RP value of the lower rank. On second thought, I think the "Mark of Potency" have a RP value as well? Need to check it later on the Preview...
This is totally the problem. The cost of the companion/mount upgrades are insane when you compare it to epic quality ones you can just purchase from the AH or the Zen shop. Cut the cost at least in half and you'd have more people upgrading. I mean I can see why they are like that, since they don't want people upgrading and cutting into the purchase of items through the store, but I don't think they'd lose that much business.
But this feedback was given many times so I think as it is now is how it will be forever.
You also have to consider that if the upgrades were more reasonable, more people would buy Zen to convert to AD to purchase these upgrades, so you'd have some balance there, and likely PWE making MORE money.
I had to try it out. My english is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and i couldn't understand the system by just reading about it x.x Now i do and i'm LOVING it. It is the best thing that i have seen so far, on the preview patch notes. If cryptic was a dude, he'd be one or two beers richer by now, for sure.
@urrbs :
Thanks for the explanation, i apreciate it.
Pretty much this. It can be set up as currency and that way you just refine everything you get, it goes into the pool and you can upgrade whichever enchants with exactly the right amount. Would be way more simple than current.
This is horrible and a simple mistake will wipe them out. Every new player will loose his Enchantments in the Catalyst area because no Refining stone was not there. Make it so that without it just says missing component or some similar message.
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+1 for that. Happened to me several times in the old system as well to sometime fuse without having a ward in the slot and lost the enchants. Please add a check box so we can check or uncheck if we want warning messages or not!
Just a little bit of feedback based on my experiences whilst playing the new Hunter class.
I'm finding the slotting/unslotting process to be quite high on micromanagment, this is only because gear is getting replaced frequently whilst leveling. I'm also slotting what I have in my inventory rather than targeted increases to certain attributes, so I don't always remember what I've slotted where. This isn't really sepcific to this new version, it's just that with the AD cost I never bothered unslotting enchants in the past.
I have a few UI suggestions as a result (please let me know if something similar already exists):
1. When you mouse over a piece of equipment it would be useful to be able to see how much RP the enchant has and the total amount needed for the next level, similar to what you get when you mouse over an enchantment in your inventory, e.g. 0/180 for rank 3 --> 4.
2. It may be useful if the white square on an item that shows it has an enchantment slotted was colour coded to the type of enchantment, e.g red, silver, blue, yellow. You can already tell by mousing over, this is just a slightly quicker visual option.
I had a third but I've forgotten it overnight, I'll add it later if I remember what it was.
Refined some Normal Soulforged only with matching shards. After 24 shards it should be upgradeable with 0 rp to next rank. But sometimes it didnt need 24 shards like 5 shards would give rp for 5.5 shards. Sometimes they had 2160 rp plus to next rank after 24 shards. Which cant be when every matching shard gives 4320. Somehow the bonusses seem to be calculated twice or somewhat. I used the button to fill out all slots on a stack of 20 soulforge shards and the bug is repeatable but doesnt happen always.
Example Lesser Tene to Normal Tene = 102k exp/RP Rank 6 Silvery = 2160 to total cost, that's 47.22 Rank 6 Silvery to get a Lesser to the point of being up-gradable, then you still need 2 Greater Mark of Potency, and another Lesser of the same exact type as Catalysts. Current values (which will go up when this goes live) so you are looking at 47.22 R6 Sil @ roughly 125k avg, = 5,90,2500 and an additional Lesser at avg 150k = 6,052,500 total, not including the cost of another 2 Greater Mark of Potency, plus an "Optional" Coalescent Ward = 150k. So not including any additional A.D cost, or the potential cost of GMoP, you are still looking at a grand total of around 6,202,500 A.D for an item which on the market/A.H is currently going for an average of 540k / 540,000, effectively increasing cost by almost 11.5x
In the end, if this goes live as is, it is going to force many or the lazier, and less moral players to re-install, or install, farming BOTs, which is going to add more destruction to the already weak, and terribly unstable player economy (what economy there is).