The part that bothers me is the devs blog saying this is going to be easier and cheaper and making higher rank (8 9 10) enchantments easier. Also there is still people posting that this new system is cheaper and to just refine rank 4 enchantments.
OK lets look at that
You want to upgrade your greater enchant to perfect. This will be over 2500 rank 4 enchants. How many do you get a day, maybe 6?
So if you farm every day for almost a year and half you will have the refining points you need.
Then you just have to get another greater enchant for a regent and a coal ward and some additional epic regents maybe from boss drop or buy them for 100k each.
This new system is in no way easier, cheaper or more efficient.
Remember they are also using this system to upgrade the artifacts. People that have been playing for awhile may have lots of shards and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> enchants to burn through at first but that still doesnt change the fact that this new system is 2-3x more expensive to produce a higher rank enchant.
Not really, more like 30-1xx. Try my foundry, it is worth it. (i'm shameless i know)
Perfect weapon/armor is total easier. Instead of 85 CW you only need 15. Less shards too. Second you can buy a sharandar key for 5k ad, that give you a shard for 2160 RP. Easier farming as before, because you NEED to have the same shards to use them. So fail argument here!
You have total less failure changes in the Rx enchantments as before.
You don't need to use only total matching enchantment. R4 azure for R4 azure fusing. Now Rx y for R4 Rp gain. Even shards can used! So you have to say what's broken with the system with calculated the cost, because you say it cost more.
Can someone say what is needed as reagents for R7-->R8 R8-->R9 R9-->R10?
As far as i understood to fuse a r8 you need 2x r7, to fuse a r9 you need 2x r8, and for r10 you need 2x r9.
I guess one enchant is the catalyst and the other one gets ranked up**
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'd like to know, about the RP value of a regular enchantment, (not a lesser) like lifedrinker or vorpal.
I mean, if a shard adds 2100 does a lesser add twice as much and a regular four times as much?
I'd like to know, about the RP value of a regular enchantment, (not a lesser) like lifedrinker or vorpal.
I mean, if a shard adds 2100 does a lesser add twice as much and a regular four times as much?
You got the table of the RP-Values in this thread... RP-System.
My apologies, but the argument about inventory space is a weak one also selling the "use different enchants to rank up" feature. The truth is you will be punished with half the amount of refinement points if the "fodder" doesn't match. Using same types is necessary if you wont end up foddering everything you'll find in order to refine.
Here's the point. If you want to make a specific enchant, you now have a tons of ways to put points into that, whereas before you need to farm the SPECIFIC enchant.
For example, if you wanted to rank up a Dark Enchant, you needed to farm more Dark Enchants. If a given mob can drop an enchantment, if you include Runestones (I do because they can be used in the new system), you only have a 1:8 chance of getting the Dark Enchant to drop. Otherwise, you end up with 7 other stones that are useless to you. In the new system you can use ALL 7 of those stones to rank up your Dark Enchant. So you say we get "punished" with half the RP but the reality is you have 8 different options for stones to use, not including enchantment shards or RP stones.
Feedback:General
I have now tried the system as it was the first time and now R2. I like where R2 is going! There still needs to be a little work done, in my opinion.
1) Make all rank 5 and under enchants have no additional items required other than one matching enchant and the required refining points. This will reduce the number of marks in the game.
2) Reduce the marks required for blue enchant refining to one.
3) Reduce the marks required for rank 7 and 8 refining to one mark.
4) Allow both blue and purple marks to drop in the wild and not just off nodes/dungeon bosses.
5) Add blue and purple marks to Leadership chests.
Overall I do like where this new system is going! Just need to alter the lower level enchants and mark availability.
Thanks for taking time to read this.
Cheers,
Q
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited November 2013
. . . . . Playing around with the Refinement system even more, I have grown to really like it. My only quam is my worry of how rare the Marks will be upon the world. I don't feel they should be common but I also do not feel they should be extremely rare either. The AD cost should be nothing more than a convenience cost for making them quicker while still allowing players in the world a reasonable way to obtain them without having to pay Astral Diamonds. This is how I feel this AD Sink should be handled.
. . . . . Also, just to note again, Shards are still costing 25,000 AD to upgrade. I hope this is just a bug and I missed the confirmation of such. Otherwise, my opinion of the system would lessen in desire greatly. Thanks!
. . . . . Playing around with the Refinement system even more, I have grown to really like it. My only quam is my worry of how rare the Marks will be upon the world. I don't feel they should be common but I also do not feel they should be extremely rare either. The AD cost should be nothing more than a convenience cost for making them quicker while still allowing players in the world a reasonable way to obtain them without having to pay Astral Diamonds. This is how I feel this AD Sink should be handled.
. . . . . Also, just to note again, Shards are still costing 25,000 AD to upgrade. I hope this is just a bug and I missed the confirmation of such. Otherwise, my opinion of the system would lessen in desire greatly. Thanks!
The problem is to find Dungeon running groups to find out how often marks drop with the loot. I find the green mark in normal skill nodes. I will try out how the chance are maybe for dropping this.(it appear that mark and Rp-giver things replace any enchantment?!)
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...] . . . . . Also, just to note again, Shards are still costing 25,000 AD to upgrade. I hope this is just a bug and I missed the confirmation of such. Otherwise, my opinion of the system would lessen in desire greatly. Thanks!
Yes, the confirmation is still missing. It was already reported as a bug.
. . . . . Playing around with the Refinement system even more, I have grown to really like it. My only quam is my worry of how rare the Marks will be upon the world. I don't feel they should be common but I also do not feel they should be extremely rare either. The AD cost should be nothing more than a convenience cost for making them quicker while still allowing players in the world a reasonable way to obtain them without having to pay Astral Diamonds.
In my experience marks are pretty uncommon. I don't play a lot but so far I've found 1 lesser mark through normal gameplay and 2 through farming to assess the drop rate, something I wouldn't normally do. They're the bottleneck in the system at this stage unless you're prepared to pay for them.
I'm still not entirely sure what I think of the system. There are pros and cons.
- I will use enchants under this system, whereas currently I use them sparingly.
- Probable short term reduction in inventory usage for enchants. Long term will depend on mark availability.
- Unlikely to use above rank 5 enchants if marks only drop in dungeons. No change since I don't use above rank 5 currently.
- I'm finding the interface somewhat fiddly, this is at lower levels and probably because I'm changing gear pretty frequently.
Can we change where the enchant box appears on the screen? For me it's in the top left corner whereas everything everything else that relates is bottom right.
Personally, after much testing I still think this new system (as is) needs a lot of work to convince me that its better then the old system. Yes, it takes far less enchants to get to a lvl10 enchant but IMHO its become more suited to the cash players.
-The fail rate isn't any better.
-The added need for Marks are unnecessary except to eat up ADs which have become so limited already that its pointless to add anymore AD sinks to the game.
-I find eating up enchantments just to rank it up so that I can refine it uses up more enchantments then using 4.
-Adding yet another limited resource (marks) to the already hard to get wards make it more frustrating.
-And of course it still costs lot of ADs to refine the higher level enchans where as the old cost none. (not counting the added cost of buying the extremely hard to find marks)
But as to not be totally negative,
-The new interface window is much nicer.
-Gold cost for removing enchants is good.
-Being able to refine an already slotted enchant is also good.
Personally I'd suggest lowering the over all costs of Marks and make them buyable using gold. Hell, just adding more uses for gold in general is a good idea.... whats the point of having 200 gold if I have nothing to spend it on?
you are all arguing about enchantments ranks 6+!!!
you have got to be kidding me!!!
i could not fuse (old system), an enchantment beyond rank 5!!!!!
not to say that sharandar enchats with 1% success fuse rate is imposible!!!!
coallesent ward are a must and cost zen and the celestial chest you buy with celestial coins NEVER reward me with one of those, so i'm basically a poor homeless character with bad epic equipment, rank 4 enchantments and a GS of 10k just because i spend all my AD in equipment i don't like or want but helps me steal some GS points.
you think the new system that eats all the enchantments just to rise "refine"/"fuse"/whateveryoucallit rate will help me shape my character the way i want? or the imposible to find/get/buy catalysts???? that i'm pretty sure will cost an obsene amoutof AD or zen???
the old system need to stay, fusing rates should increase or coallesent wards need to drop like rain and un slot enchaments need to cost gold!!!
that is the only way poor players can keep having fun and ejoyingthe first d&d mmo that is worth it play!
I'd like to make a suggestion, the refinement system seems to be a good idea and I was wondering if maybe the seals (Lion/Manticore/Pegasus/Unicorn/Drake) might get the same treatment. Say 4-10 Lion seals can "buy" 1 Manticore seal, seeing that leveling up can be done fairly quickly so that they are merely another source of gold income for many lower level players.
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Feedback: Stack removal I'm not liking the enchantments removing themselves if I'm trying to use a large stack to get refining points. If I select fill all slots, it should continue to fill all slots until either I'm out of those particular kind of enchantments, I hit the refining points needed to upgrade, or I clear it out.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...]
coallesent ward are a must and cost zen and the celestial chest you buy with celestial coins NEVER reward me with one of those,
[...]
the old system need to stay, fusing rates should increase or coallesent wards need to drop like rain and un slot enchaments need to cost gold!!!
So, you're saying, that you don't get "Coalescent Wards" and don't have the AD to buy them, but still you would like to keep a system where you need around six times the amount of those wards (85 instead of 15)? Sorry, I cannot quite follow your logic.
Feedback: Stack removal I'm not liking the enchantments removing themselves if I'm trying to use a large stack to get refining points. If I select fill all slots, it should continue to fill all slots until either I'm out of those particular kind of enchantments, I hit the refining points needed to upgrade, or I clear it out.
There was a bug reported about the stack not working properly--if you didn't had stacks with multiples of 5, the slots still got filled even if the stack was less than 5 (but nothing was consumed). I think that emptying the slots was easier as to code a check for the amount of items on the stack.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited November 2013
Feedback: Marks: Upgrade System? As with Zeb without the AD Costs the system is a thousand times better however I was not and still am not a fan of these marks.
One major issue I am seeing occur is that in order to upgrade different types of enchantments I will need various types of marks. Fluff. Icky fluff. But what I am looking at is that I may have dozens of white marks and no green marks. Dozens of green but no blue. Etc.
It should be possible to turn the trash into something useful especially because after people have all of their enchantments to rank 5 they'll never need another one again *ever*.
Feedback: White Marks My request to remove marks altogether remains. I don't think they serve any point other than to be annoying fluff that fills up inventory space however I don't think there should be white marks in general. It's a low level hindrance that will be nothing more than annoying inventory clutter. I expect those will become the new rank 1 and 2 enchantments and be discarded more often than sold even to the vendor.
Feedback: White Marks My request to remove marks altogether remains. I don't think they serve any point other than to be annoying fluff that fills up inventory space however I don't think there should be white marks in general. It's a low level hindrance that will be nothing more than annoying inventory clutter. I expect those will become the new rank 1 and 2 enchantments and be discarded more often than sold even to the vendor.
I second that. But if you want to keep the Mark system, please at least remove the white ones and the green ones, as well as make the blues drop where the greens dropped so far--additionally.
I came up with a different calculation, comparing the two systems.
remember, this is just a comparison and the values for the new system are calculated back to the old system in order to show the cost of the new system.
RP=refinement points
old new
R3=4*R2 R3=2*R2
R4=4*R3 R4=2.67*R3
R5=4*R4 R5=3.89*R4
R6=4*R5 R6=3.99*R5
R7=4*R6 R7=3,99*R6
R8=4*R7 R8=5,99*R7
R9=4*R8 R9=6,00*R8
R10=4*R9 R10=6,00*R9
Formula: Sum of RP needed divided by the RP match amount of the same type fodder
- same type enchantments or runestone at 100% chance
- the values are not 100% right as the RP cost for R2 is missing, but that's negligible.
As you can see this is for the same type fodder.
the cost for mixed fodder is up to 100% higher in worst case.
There's one thing to remember about this. if you don't use same type fodder, you'll get punished with the half amount of RP.
it's not the other way around, you get no "bonus" on same types.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...]
R9=4*R8 R9=6,00*R8
R10=4*R9 R10=6,00*R9
[...]
As you can see this is for the same type fodder.
the cost for mixed fodder is up to 100% higher in worst case.
Why on earth, should I use any enchantments above R6 to feed for RP? You're aware that the value of those items is less than the lower items?
There's one thing to remember about this. if you don't use same type fodder, you'll get punished with the half amount of RP.
it's not the other way around, you get no "bonus" on same types.
So, I can do more (using items not of the same type, even runestones for enchantments), and that is a punishment? So, e. g. if my car now is additionally able to use gas, besides gasoline, I'm punished?
you are all arguing about enchantments ranks 6+!!!
you have got to be kidding me!!!
i could not fuse (old system), an enchantment beyond rank 5!!!!!
not to say that sharandar enchats with 1% success fuse rate is imposible!!!!
coallesent ward are a must and cost zen and the celestial chest you buy with celestial coins NEVER reward me with one of those, so i'm basically a poor homeless character with bad epic equipment, rank 4 enchantments and a GS of 10k just because i spend all my AD in equipment i don't like or want but helps me steal some GS points.
you think the new system that eats all the enchantments just to rise "refine"/"fuse"/whateveryoucallit rate will help me shape my character the way i want? or the imposible to find/get/buy catalysts???? that i'm pretty sure will cost an obsene amoutof AD or zen???
the old system need to stay, fusing rates should increase or coallesent wards need to drop like rain and un slot enchaments need to cost gold!!!
that is the only way poor players can keep having fun and ejoyingthe first d&d mmo that is worth it play!
Agree.
Just one coalescent ward dropped in this celestial chest since I began playing this game on my two chars.
If you want to play this game "right" you have to do dungeon runs as many as possible using exploits and then vendor the junk you get. If you don't exploit it, well, good luck finding a group which will teach you (not insulting or kicking you) and with people not quitting during your run. it is easier to cope with quitters in exploited runs as these are quicker. (I hate exploits) If you need a lot of AD real quick, you'll get 1 mil for about 14$ from china.
The Waukeen event was a very good one. I farmed 2 mil. But refining AD takes some patience
I like this game, but it's all about money.
I am so looking forward to elder scrolls online 'cause it's pay to play and play to win.
Why on earth, should I use any enchantments above R6 to feed for RP? You're aware that the value of those items is less than the lower items?
So, I can do more (using items not of the same type, even runestones for enchantments), and that is a punishment? So, e. g. if my car now is additionally able to use gas, besides gasoline, I'm punished?
Again, I wrote there clearly, this is a comparison and those values are for you to understand the costs of the new system.
it is easier to compare two cars in $ prices then one in $ and the other in €. I took both cars and wrote the value in $.
I guess you aren't playing this game to its full potential. I need all of those enchantments as I have very many slots and companions which use them, too. Example: foddering an empowered runestone into a azure enchantment is stupid. you get 50% less refinement points and lose a good rune.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Again, I wrote there clearly, this is a comparison and those values are for you to understand the costs of the new system.
Guess, what I did? You even quoted my posting. I'm still waiting for you to answer, why you choose to pay more for something that is available for less.
Guess, what I did? You even quoted my posting. I'm still waiting for you to answer, why you choose to pay more for something that is available for less.
I object.
I am not feeding Rank sixes into anything. you don't get it.
Can someone YouTube this system please. I am finding it confusing. A Video would be great!
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The new changes made this system a pain to use. Reseting the 5 refinement-slots (have some patience feeding a rank 9 with rank 4s ...) after each refinement. Need to drag in wards for each upgrade try(even on subsequential). Need to hit the continue button after each upgrade try. The delay between operations. Do the developers want to annnoy the players as much as possible?
The Marks should be listed last in the dropdown list too.
Comments
Not really, more like 30-1xx. Try my foundry, it is worth it. (i'm shameless i know)
Cheerios.
As far as i understood to fuse a r8 you need 2x r7, to fuse a r9 you need 2x r8, and for r10 you need 2x r9.
I guess one enchant is the catalyst and the other one gets ranked up**
Yes, one is the catalyst/reagent and the other gets ranked up.
You will also need greater marks of potency.
I mean, if a shard adds 2100 does a lesser add twice as much and a regular four times as much?
You got the table of the RP-Values in this thread... RP-System.
OMG, ^^ this is so good...
tyvm
Here's the point. If you want to make a specific enchant, you now have a tons of ways to put points into that, whereas before you need to farm the SPECIFIC enchant.
For example, if you wanted to rank up a Dark Enchant, you needed to farm more Dark Enchants. If a given mob can drop an enchantment, if you include Runestones (I do because they can be used in the new system), you only have a 1:8 chance of getting the Dark Enchant to drop. Otherwise, you end up with 7 other stones that are useless to you. In the new system you can use ALL 7 of those stones to rank up your Dark Enchant. So you say we get "punished" with half the RP but the reality is you have 8 different options for stones to use, not including enchantment shards or RP stones.
So your point really doesn't hold water here.
I have now tried the system as it was the first time and now R2. I like where R2 is going! There still needs to be a little work done, in my opinion.
1) Make all rank 5 and under enchants have no additional items required other than one matching enchant and the required refining points. This will reduce the number of marks in the game.
2) Reduce the marks required for blue enchant refining to one.
3) Reduce the marks required for rank 7 and 8 refining to one mark.
4) Allow both blue and purple marks to drop in the wild and not just off nodes/dungeon bosses.
5) Add blue and purple marks to Leadership chests.
Overall I do like where this new system is going! Just need to alter the lower level enchants and mark availability.
Thanks for taking time to read this.
Cheers,
Q
. . . . . Also, just to note again, Shards are still costing 25,000 AD to upgrade. I hope this is just a bug and I missed the confirmation of such. Otherwise, my opinion of the system would lessen in desire greatly. Thanks!
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The problem is to find Dungeon running groups to find out how often marks drop with the loot. I find the green mark in normal skill nodes. I will try out how the chance are maybe for dropping this.(it appear that mark and Rp-giver things replace any enchantment?!)
I'm still not entirely sure what I think of the system. There are pros and cons.
- I will use enchants under this system, whereas currently I use them sparingly.
- Probable short term reduction in inventory usage for enchants. Long term will depend on mark availability.
- Unlikely to use above rank 5 enchants if marks only drop in dungeons. No change since I don't use above rank 5 currently.
- I'm finding the interface somewhat fiddly, this is at lower levels and probably because I'm changing gear pretty frequently.
Can we change where the enchant box appears on the screen? For me it's in the top left corner whereas everything everything else that relates is bottom right.
-The fail rate isn't any better.
-The added need for Marks are unnecessary except to eat up ADs which have become so limited already that its pointless to add anymore AD sinks to the game.
-I find eating up enchantments just to rank it up so that I can refine it uses up more enchantments then using 4.
-Adding yet another limited resource (marks) to the already hard to get wards make it more frustrating.
-And of course it still costs lot of ADs to refine the higher level enchans where as the old cost none. (not counting the added cost of buying the extremely hard to find marks)
But as to not be totally negative,
-The new interface window is much nicer.
-Gold cost for removing enchants is good.
-Being able to refine an already slotted enchant is also good.
Personally I'd suggest lowering the over all costs of Marks and make them buyable using gold. Hell, just adding more uses for gold in general is a good idea.... whats the point of having 200 gold if I have nothing to spend it on?
you have got to be kidding me!!!
i could not fuse (old system), an enchantment beyond rank 5!!!!!
not to say that sharandar enchats with 1% success fuse rate is imposible!!!!
coallesent ward are a must and cost zen and the celestial chest you buy with celestial coins NEVER reward me with one of those, so i'm basically a poor homeless character with bad epic equipment, rank 4 enchantments and a GS of 10k just because i spend all my AD in equipment i don't like or want but helps me steal some GS points.
you think the new system that eats all the enchantments just to rise "refine"/"fuse"/whateveryoucallit rate will help me shape my character the way i want? or the imposible to find/get/buy catalysts???? that i'm pretty sure will cost an obsene amoutof AD or zen???
the old system need to stay, fusing rates should increase or coallesent wards need to drop like rain and un slot enchaments need to cost gold!!!
that is the only way poor players can keep having fun and ejoyingthe first d&d mmo that is worth it play!
I'm not liking the enchantments removing themselves if I'm trying to use a large stack to get refining points. If I select fill all slots, it should continue to fill all slots until either I'm out of those particular kind of enchantments, I hit the refining points needed to upgrade, or I clear it out.
As with Zeb without the AD Costs the system is a thousand times better however I was not and still am not a fan of these marks.
One major issue I am seeing occur is that in order to upgrade different types of enchantments I will need various types of marks. Fluff. Icky fluff. But what I am looking at is that I may have dozens of white marks and no green marks. Dozens of green but no blue. Etc.
It should be possible to turn the trash into something useful especially because after people have all of their enchantments to rank 5 they'll never need another one again *ever*.
Feedback: White Marks
My request to remove marks altogether remains. I don't think they serve any point other than to be annoying fluff that fills up inventory space however I don't think there should be white marks in general. It's a low level hindrance that will be nothing more than annoying inventory clutter. I expect those will become the new rank 1 and 2 enchantments and be discarded more often than sold even to the vendor.
I came up with a different calculation, comparing the two systems.
remember, this is just a comparison and the values for the new system are calculated back to the old system in order to show the cost of the new system.
RP=refinement points
old new
R3=4*R2 R3=2*R2
R4=4*R3 R4=2.67*R3
R5=4*R4 R5=3.89*R4
R6=4*R5 R6=3.99*R5
R7=4*R6 R7=3,99*R6
R8=4*R7 R8=5,99*R7
R9=4*R8 R9=6,00*R8
R10=4*R9 R10=6,00*R9
Formula: Sum of RP needed divided by the RP match amount of the same type fodder
- same type enchantments or runestone at 100% chance
- the values are not 100% right as the RP cost for R2 is missing, but that's negligible.
As you can see this is for the same type fodder.
the cost for mixed fodder is up to 100% higher in worst case.
There's one thing to remember about this. if you don't use same type fodder, you'll get punished with the half amount of RP.
it's not the other way around, you get no "bonus" on same types.
Agree.
Just one coalescent ward dropped in this celestial chest since I began playing this game on my two chars.
If you want to play this game "right" you have to do dungeon runs as many as possible using exploits and then vendor the junk you get. If you don't exploit it, well, good luck finding a group which will teach you (not insulting or kicking you) and with people not quitting during your run. it is easier to cope with quitters in exploited runs as these are quicker. (I hate exploits) If you need a lot of AD real quick, you'll get 1 mil for about 14$ from china.
The Waukeen event was a very good one. I farmed 2 mil. But refining AD takes some patience
I like this game, but it's all about money.
I am so looking forward to elder scrolls online 'cause it's pay to play and play to win.
Again, I wrote there clearly, this is a comparison and those values are for you to understand the costs of the new system.
it is easier to compare two cars in $ prices then one in $ and the other in €. I took both cars and wrote the value in $.
I guess you aren't playing this game to its full potential. I need all of those enchantments as I have very many slots and companions which use them, too. Example: foddering an empowered runestone into a azure enchantment is stupid. you get 50% less refinement points and lose a good rune.
I object.
I am not feeding Rank sixes into anything. you don't get it.
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SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
The Marks should be listed last in the dropdown list too.