Bug: Refining – Using non-available Enchantments I use xyz enchantment and refine them. But after a refining processes i can hit the refine button, but it don't do anything. Why? It ran out of the used enchantment! For example: You will fill the RP of a R5 azure. Now you drag 5x R1 azure in the slots. Press refine - work fine. Now you have only 22 of this R1. After 4 successful refine button clicks, the fifth bug out. It consume the 'available 5 showing'(but you know that we only have 2 real left) and put the value of this 5 used to the RP of the destination. Sometimes it reject it, but not always. So now you stand there with the shown 5 azure R1 and pressing refine button again and again, but nothing happen. If you clean the azure(drop them out or using the autoclean), the RP reset to the right point(i think, but i don't calculated it as this scenario happen). This need to be addressed, that it kill the 3 false shown azure AND give you the error - not enough xyz available for full filled slots.
This is not fixed yet? I haven't tried reproducing it with the new patch, I already reported it as a bug about four days ago. See:
Bug: Refinement Window: Automatically filling the Refining Slots If I'm using the "Fill All Refining Slots" and select e. g. a stack of 8 enchantments. All five slots get filled. After I click on "Refine", the stack only contains the remaining 3 enchantments, but the 5 refining slots are still filled with 5 enchantments. Clicking on "Refine" initiates the stamping sound as normal, but nothing happens: neither get RP added to the "Item To Refine" nor does the 5 refinement slots get's emptied. Also I do get a error message in any kind. If I remove 2 enchantments from the enchantment slots and click on "Refine" again, the RP value get's added and the refinement slots get cleared.
Therefore you need to check if there are still 5 items in the stack
Thank you for taking the additional direct AD cost out of refining stones, that is very much appreciated.
Now in regards to the catalyst, yeah I don't like them and to me it is just an extra step. With that said, I was on the preview shard for over an hour, and did not find any catalysts, either from dungeon runs or from nodes, both in and outside of dungeons.
If they are going to be recieved from nodes, then maybe increasing the drop rate.
As others have commented, having them drop from trash in dungeons would be better. Would discourage players leaving/avoiding combat and racing to the nearest node leaving the others in party fighting off the monsters that were in the way.
Also in favor of having them drop from skirmishes.
What about having new Quest just to get catalysts? Have a quest that is not a daily quest, but similar to the length of time it takes to repeat the quest, Arcane Reservoir. Here you can get a chance to get any rank of catalysts, except it's a random chance.
I personally disagree with all the people saying there shouldn't be an AD sink in refining. The problem is there aren't enough AD sinks in the game and AD just keeps going into the economy. Much of the complaint about AD sink was about how much AD it cost to make rank 5 and 6 enchantments. Well the simple solution is to shift the AD cost up to higher ranks, so that in the new system, every single rank of enchantment will be cheaper to make than an enchantment at the same rank in the old system. If there is a real flaw to the new refining system (part 1), it was that certain ranks cost more than before, even though towards the higher ranks the cost dropped dramatically.
No matter how you look at it (if you can see) the new system is much cheaper than the old system, while doing away with so much grinding for enchantments and providing a much needed way for AD to be removed from the economy. I honestly believe that AD sinks will help keep the economy sane, otherwise as time goes on we'll have double or triple the amount of AD required to buy the same things, and zen to AD ratio permanently at 500:1. If the AD cost to refining is too high, then simply lower it, but I don't see any good in completely removing it. The only other real AD sink in the game right now is cats and several tens of thousands of AD for unlocking campaign stuff, and you can only get so many cats...
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asunazysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
just for clarification.... how many vorpal enchant do i need in order to have greater vorpal? in test server from lesser vorpal to vorpal enchant i still need 1 lesser vorpal as catalyst item and 1 greater mark of potency.. i havent try from vorpal to greater... thanks!
Note: just need the number of vorpals needed thanks!
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I personally disagree with all the people saying there shouldn't be an AD sink in refining. The problem is there aren't enough AD sinks in the game and AD just keeps going into the economy.
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
What about having new Quest just to get catalysts? Have a quest that is not a daily quest, but similar to the length of time it takes to repeat the quest, Arcane Reservoir. Here you can get a chance to get any rank of catalysts, except it's a random chance.
The new mini dungeons in the dread ring have purple quality catalysts as rewards if you purchase a key and run them on certain days of the week , it would be better though if you got an option of what quality catalyst you wanted as a reward since I have a bunch of purple and green ones now but have yet to see a blue one drop( other than the ones in the wondrous bazaar)
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
Indeed. It's not entirely about how high the prices/fees are either. If something feels like a rip-off, people just won't spend their money on it, even if they have that money.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
That doesn't like you're talking about the new refinement system, because a) it will be cheaper and b) unslotting only costs 2.50 gold. I've no clue where your information is coming from, but definitely not from first-hand experience on the preview shard.
Yes you are right: i tried that system only very fast and not well because after the shadowmantle patch my preview neverwinter are giving to me a lot of problems with terrible lag and high fps.
a) For that I could see, to upgrade enchantments and runestones you need much more enchant/runestone than before. You burn everything to make ref point for ONE enchants, lets say a dark ench rank 3, and if you have another dark enchants rank 3 it have zero ref point. So i'm warried about the fact that i will never improve more my enchantments couse i play a number of hours that leave space to my real life.
b) I missed the information about gold instead of ad to unslot, ty.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...]
a) For that I could see, to upgrade enchantments and runestones you need much more enchant/runestone than before. You burn everything to make ref point for ONE enchants, lets say a dark ench rank 3, and if you have another dark enchants rank 3 it have zero ref point. So i'm warried about the fact that i will never improve more my enchantments couse i play a number of hours that leave space to my real life.
I'm currently preparing a posting for the required items to upgrade enchantments...
Indeed. It's not entirely about how high the prices/fees are either. If something feels like a rip-off, people just won't spend their money on it, even if they have that money.
Incredibly true.
There really are two types of marketing failures in that regard, making prices too high and making prices feel too high.
However, Feedback: Post Changes THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
You have proved you do listen to the player base and have all but removed any issue I had with the system. I still don't like the catalysts. I still think they are a complicated extra fluff. I still feel they should not be required prior to rank 5 enchantments.
But the removal of the AD fee has improved the system tenfold.
So thank you for listening.
AD sinks are good for the economy but they should always remain optional because when power is concerned you draw a line between the haves and the have nots. I really wish you take this feedback and backlash beyond the refinement system because the entire reason we don't spend our AD in any of the AD sinks is because they are way, way overpriced.
Basically you use enchantments to apply "Refining Points" to upgrade existing enchants. So in order to figure out how many enchantments you need per level simply divide the 'Points Needed' by the Refining Points each enchantment is worth. Just note that a matching enchant/rune is worth double RP which is why there are two columns.
Additionally you do not need to do a linear path as you do now. You can gain refining points by throwing any level enchant into another enchantment.
So just to show you how much better, as far as enchantment requirements, this new system, if we assume the is a 100% upgrade chance the number of rank 4 enchantments needed to upgrade to rank 10...
Old System: 4,096 (must be the same type)
New System (matching): 2,287
New System (Different): 4,574
The number of enchants required has been reduced drastically especially since there is less points of fusions/upgrades and thus less loss while upgrading. It's much less intuitive. The catalysts are an icky iffy situation...
But overall the system was always at least comparable to what we already had...but the AD costs were monstrous. Since they have been removed all I can really say I don't like is the catalysts especially under rank 5.
just for clarification.... how many vorpal enchant do i need in order to have greater vorpal?
Ok, let me provide you with my calculations about Weapon and Armor Enchantments:
Weapon/Armor Enchantment comparison chart of refining (new) vs. fusing (old) -- total amount of items needed
System Refining Fusing Refining Fusing Refining Fusing Refining Fusing
To Rank Lesser Lesser Normal Normal Greater Greater Perfect Perfect
RP cost
0
--
34,560
--
172,800
--
656,640
--
Matching shards
4
4
8
16
16
64
32
256
Non-Matching shards
--
16
--
80
--
304
--
Coalescent wards
1
1
3
5
7
21
15
85
Greater Mark of Potency
0
--
1
--
4
--
10
--
In order to create the Lesser version of the enchantments, you need 4 shards of the same type (matching)--hence the row "Matching shards".
For the refinement points (RP) you can either use any other shard (aka non-matching) or use matching shards. If you use matching shards, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-matching shards"--e. g. for a "Greater Feytouched Enchantment" you would need in total 56 "Shard of Feytouched Enchantment" (16 + 80/2 = 56). In regards to the amount of shards you need: if you keep on using the same type of shards, you will need less, only if you use other type of shards, you will need more.
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
Note: just need the number of vorpals needed thanks!
I don't recommend using Vorpal shards, because they are the most expensive: around 20,000 ADs for a shard, which would mean--if you use Vorpal shards for Vorpal enchantments--about 4.6 AD/RP. Most of the other shards are around 2,000 ADs/shard, which means 0.92 AD/RP. So using Vorpal shards to "level up" your Vorpal enchantment would mean "paying" 5 times the amount in ADs. Even if you do not consider the AD value of shards, it is a lot easier to e. g. get Terror shards as it is to get Vorpal shards.
Bug:
Upgrading Shards to Lessers still has Upgrade Cost of 25k
Just to put in the required format: Bug: Refinement Window: Lesser Weapon/Armor Enchantment There is still a cost of 25,000 Astral Diamonds to upgrade any Weapon/Armor shard to the Lesser Enchantment version. As there are no other cost of Astral Diamonds on all other steps, I consider this a bug.
Basically you use enchantments to apply "Refining Points" to upgrade existing enchants. So in order to figure out how many enchantments you need per level simply divide the 'Points Needed' by the Refining Points each enchantment is worth. Just note that a matching enchant/rune is worth double RP which is why there are two columns.
Additionally you do not need to do a linear path as you do now. You can gain refining points by throwing any level enchant into another enchantment.
So just to show you how much better, as far as enchantment requirements, this new system, if we assume the is a 100% upgrade chance the number of rank 4 enchantments needed to upgrade to rank 10...
Old System: 4,096 (must be the same type)
New System (matching): 2,287
New System (Different): 4,574
The number of enchants required has been reduced drastically especially since there is less points of fusions/upgrades and thus less loss while upgrading. It's much less intuitive. The catalysts are an icky iffy situation...
But overall the system was always at least comparable to what we already had...but the AD costs were monstrous. Since they have been removed all I can really say I don't like is the catalysts especially under rank 5.
I still don't get it. Does it cost more or less? It sounds like more + even more additional items. The fact that i'm able to use any type of enchantment to raise another gem's level sounds great, at first. BUT right now, i can fuse those gems and sell them for AD. PLUS get the one i wanted at the same time.
So in the future, i cannot do that anymore... i won't make AD while farming + i cannot just fuse anymore... smells fishy to me.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited November 2013
Half of the required enchantments is a win no matter what way you cut it.
Half enchantments means half the cost.
The catalysts are irritating fluff...but they can be gathered. And if you don't consider grinding an additional 2K rank 4 enchantment drops as problematic then needing some catalysts should be nothing to grind out comparatively...
But even if you paid for them in the Wondrous Bazaar it wouldn't be worth as much as the 2K Rank 4 Enchants.
But you are likely correct about the AD. Since AD won't be required to increase the rank or remove the enchantments from slots along with a general decrease of enchatments required it will be a massive blow to the enchantment values. Enchantments, particularly high level enchantments, will be far cheaper.
Thank you that now i can unslot so many lost enchants (tho dont know if i should thank you for doing what u should have done to begin with, but i;m of high spirits so thank you). Thank you for making high rank enchants more accessible (r7-r10), tho i dont rly see them as half price as more of a 30%-40% reduction (since are half the enchants but marks adds to the cost). Thank you for bringing the count of Cwards to something decent, i do hope now i can use the store similar to Preservation Wards and also have a reason to buy Enchanted Keys. Regarding Marks as drops i have a split opinion... Good to stimulate people play content but will help more the ones who cheat the content and in that regard: FH/Karr/ToS/MC/CN/Spell are all being abused (maybe some others, but i havent been in others lately). Refining system i hate... is something i am getting dizzy everytime i read about it. So all in all i think this is a solution to many problems but i dont find it elegant! I dont look at it as an increase in my ad count, but more as: will people use this more then the previous system?! hard to tell, is way too clunky for someone new to the game for sure.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...] Regarding Marks as drops i have a split opinion... Good to stimulate people play content but will help more the ones who cheat the content and in that regard: FH/Karr/ToS/MC/CN/Spell are all being abused (maybe some others, but i havent been in others lately).
IMHO, if people are going to farm for "Mark of Potency", they are going to use the "Cloak Tower"--which is the fasted dungeon to complete by far, IMHO.
I still don't get it. Does it cost more or less? It sounds like more + even more additional items. The fact that i'm able to use any type of enchantment to raise another gem's level sounds great, at first. BUT right now, i can fuse those gems and sell them for AD. PLUS get the one i wanted at the same time.[...]
I started the refinement process at "to rank 5", because everything below is a regular drop. Therefore you do not need to upgrade the enchantments starting at rank 1--and I wouldn't recommend doing it2.
For the calculation of the "Non-Match. ench./rs." I used the RP value of non-matching (not the same type) enchantments/runestones. I also used the value of rank 4's (135 RPs)--but you can also use rank 1 (5 RP), 2 (15 RP) or 3 (45 RP) as a source for the required RPs.
For calculating the amount of "P.Ward" required, I defined, that 1 "P.Ward" is required from rank 4 to 5, 3 for rank 5 to 6, 3 from 6 to 8, 4 from 8 to 9 and 9 from rank 9 to rank 10. The reason of the difference in the total amount of "P.Ward" between the "Refining" and the "Fusing" system, is that with the "Refining" system you need less "upgrade" steps (e. g. 3 vs. 21 steps from rank 4 to rank 7).
For the RP, you can either use any other enchantment/runestone (aka non-matching) or use matching enchantments/runestones. If you use matching enchantments/runestones, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-Match. ench./rs."--e. g. for a "Dark Enchantment, Rank 9" you would need in total 896 "Dark Enchantment, Rank 4" (4 + 1,782/2 = 896). In regards to the amount of enchantments/runestones you need: if you keep on using the same type of enchantments/runestones, you will need less, only if you use other type of enchantments/runestones, you will need more. But, the amount of matching runestones till rank 7 stays the same. You need less "P.Wards", but therefore you need some "Mark of Potency".
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
Footnotes: 1) The "Rank 7" row is there just for reference, as you would need two rank 7 enchantments to upgrade to rank 8, two rank 8 to upgrade to rank 9 and two rank 9 to upgrade to rank 10. The required amount of items is included in the total amount of items.
2) If you have an abundance of "Minor Mark of Potency", I would recommend to upgrade rank 1 and rank 2 to rank 3. You would only need 1 enchantment/runestone and 1 or 2 "Minor Mark of Potency", but you would triple the RP value of the lower rank. On second thought, I think the "Mark of Potency" have a RP value as well? Need to check it later on the Preview...
. . . . . I disagree. There plenty of AD sinks, they are just too expensive and are therefore not used. Their insane costs are the problem, not the number of sinks. We don't need more sinks, we just need our current sinks to be more readily affordable and therefore used more often.
This is totally the problem. The cost of the companion/mount upgrades are insane when you compare it to epic quality ones you can just purchase from the AH or the Zen shop. Cut the cost at least in half and you'd have more people upgrading. I mean I can see why they are like that, since they don't want people upgrading and cutting into the purchase of items through the store, but I don't think they'd lose that much business.
But this feedback was given many times so I think as it is now is how it will be forever.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
This is totally the problem. The cost of the companion/mount upgrades are insane when you compare it to epic quality ones you can just purchase from the AH or the Zen shop. Cut the cost at least in half and you'd have more people upgrading. I mean I can see why they are like that, since they don't want people upgrading and cutting into the purchase of items through the store, but I don't think they'd lose that much business.
But this feedback was given many times so I think as it is now is how it will be forever.
You also have to consider that if the upgrades were more reasonable, more people would buy Zen to convert to AD to purchase these upgrades, so you'd have some balance there, and likely PWE making MORE money.
Half of the required enchantments is a win no matter what way you cut it.
Half enchantments means half the cost.
The catalysts are irritating fluff...but they can be gathered. And if you don't consider grinding an additional 2K rank 4 enchantment drops as problematic then needing some catalysts should be nothing to grind out comparatively...
But even if you paid for them in the Wondrous Bazaar it wouldn't be worth as much as the 2K Rank 4 Enchants.
But you are likely correct about the AD. Since AD won't be required to increase the rank or remove the enchantments from slots along with a general decrease of enchatments required it will be a massive blow to the enchantment values. Enchantments, particularly high level enchantments, will be far cheaper.
I had to try it out. My english is HAMSTER and i couldn't understand the system by just reading about it x.x Now i do and i'm LOVING it. It is the best thing that i have seen so far, on the preview patch notes. If cryptic was a dude, he'd be one or two beers richer by now, for sure.
How about allowing players to convert enchants to points and have a pool of upgrading points so when you upgrade something you can just fill it to max without messing around? That way it has the exact amount every time and should stack correctly every time.
Pretty much this. It can be set up as currency and that way you just refine everything you get, it goes into the pool and you can upgrade whichever enchants with exactly the right amount. Would be way more simple than current.
Comments
Thanks for reporting (and re-reporting)! Looks like this is another of the ones we've fixed but didn't quite make it in time for Wednesday's build.
Thank you for taking the additional direct AD cost out of refining stones, that is very much appreciated.
Now in regards to the catalyst, yeah I don't like them and to me it is just an extra step. With that said, I was on the preview shard for over an hour, and did not find any catalysts, either from dungeon runs or from nodes, both in and outside of dungeons.
If they are going to be recieved from nodes, then maybe increasing the drop rate.
As others have commented, having them drop from trash in dungeons would be better. Would discourage players leaving/avoiding combat and racing to the nearest node leaving the others in party fighting off the monsters that were in the way.
Also in favor of having them drop from skirmishes.
What about having new Quest just to get catalysts? Have a quest that is not a daily quest, but similar to the length of time it takes to repeat the quest, Arcane Reservoir. Here you can get a chance to get any rank of catalysts, except it's a random chance.
No matter how you look at it (if you can see) the new system is much cheaper than the old system, while doing away with so much grinding for enchantments and providing a much needed way for AD to be removed from the economy. I honestly believe that AD sinks will help keep the economy sane, otherwise as time goes on we'll have double or triple the amount of AD required to buy the same things, and zen to AD ratio permanently at 500:1. If the AD cost to refining is too high, then simply lower it, but I don't see any good in completely removing it. The only other real AD sink in the game right now is cats and several tens of thousands of AD for unlocking campaign stuff, and you can only get so many cats...
Note: just need the number of vorpals needed thanks!
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The new mini dungeons in the dread ring have purple quality catalysts as rewards if you purchase a key and run them on certain days of the week , it would be better though if you got an option of what quality catalyst you wanted as a reward since I have a bunch of purple and green ones now but have yet to see a blue one drop( other than the ones in the wondrous bazaar)
And that's the best part. Can't wait until this hits live.
Yes you are right: i tried that system only very fast and not well because after the shadowmantle patch my preview neverwinter are giving to me a lot of problems with terrible lag and high fps.
a) For that I could see, to upgrade enchantments and runestones you need much more enchant/runestone than before. You burn everything to make ref point for ONE enchants, lets say a dark ench rank 3, and if you have another dark enchants rank 3 it have zero ref point. So i'm warried about the fact that i will never improve more my enchantments couse i play a number of hours that leave space to my real life.
b) I missed the information about gold instead of ad to unslot, ty.
I think the question is, does it cosume 4 rank 3 gems to fuse a rank 4? Or less? Or more?
Is it like this?
4 rank 1's = 1 rank 2
4 rank 2's = 1 rank 3
4 rank 3's = 1 rank 4
so on.
Incredibly true.
There really are two types of marketing failures in that regard, making prices too high and making prices feel too high.
However,
Feedback: Post Changes
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
You have proved you do listen to the player base and have all but removed any issue I had with the system. I still don't like the catalysts. I still think they are a complicated extra fluff. I still feel they should not be required prior to rank 5 enchantments.
But the removal of the AD fee has improved the system tenfold.
So thank you for listening.
AD sinks are good for the economy but they should always remain optional because when power is concerned you draw a line between the haves and the have nots. I really wish you take this feedback and backlash beyond the refinement system because the entire reason we don't spend our AD in any of the AD sinks is because they are way, way overpriced.
It's not that simple.
Check out this chart:
Refining Chart Courtesy of The Diamond Club
Basically you use enchantments to apply "Refining Points" to upgrade existing enchants. So in order to figure out how many enchantments you need per level simply divide the 'Points Needed' by the Refining Points each enchantment is worth. Just note that a matching enchant/rune is worth double RP which is why there are two columns.
Additionally you do not need to do a linear path as you do now. You can gain refining points by throwing any level enchant into another enchantment.
So just to show you how much better, as far as enchantment requirements, this new system, if we assume the is a 100% upgrade chance the number of rank 4 enchantments needed to upgrade to rank 10...
Old System: 4,096 (must be the same type)
New System (matching): 2,287
New System (Different): 4,574
The number of enchants required has been reduced drastically especially since there is less points of fusions/upgrades and thus less loss while upgrading. It's much less intuitive. The catalysts are an icky iffy situation...
But overall the system was always at least comparable to what we already had...but the AD costs were monstrous. Since they have been removed all I can really say I don't like is the catalysts especially under rank 5.
Weapon/Armor Enchantment comparison chart of refining (new) vs. fusing (old) -- total amount of items needed
System
Refining
Fusing
Refining
Fusing
Refining
Fusing
Refining
Fusing
To Rank
Lesser
Lesser
Normal
Normal
Greater
Greater
Perfect
Perfect
RP cost
0
--
34,560
--
172,800
--
656,640
--
Matching shards
4
4
8
16
16
64
32
256
Non-Matching shards
--
16
--
80
--
304
--
Coalescent wards
1
1
3
5
7
21
15
85
Greater Mark of Potency
0
--
1
--
4
--
10
--
In order to create the Lesser version of the enchantments, you need 4 shards of the same type (matching)--hence the row "Matching shards".
For the refinement points (RP) you can either use any other shard (aka non-matching) or use matching shards. If you use matching shards, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-matching shards"--e. g. for a "Greater Feytouched Enchantment" you would need in total 56 "Shard of Feytouched Enchantment" (16 + 80/2 = 56). In regards to the amount of shards you need: if you keep on using the same type of shards, you will need less, only if you use other type of shards, you will need more.
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
I don't recommend using Vorpal shards, because they are the most expensive: around 20,000 ADs for a shard, which would mean--if you use Vorpal shards for Vorpal enchantments--about 4.6 AD/RP. Most of the other shards are around 2,000 ADs/shard, which means 0.92 AD/RP. So using Vorpal shards to "level up" your Vorpal enchantment would mean "paying" 5 times the amount in ADs. Even if you do not consider the AD value of shards, it is a lot easier to e. g. get Terror shards as it is to get Vorpal shards.
Bug: Refinement Window: Lesser Weapon/Armor Enchantment
There is still a cost of 25,000 Astral Diamonds to upgrade any Weapon/Armor shard to the Lesser Enchantment version. As there are no other cost of Astral Diamonds on all other steps, I consider this a bug.
I still don't get it. Does it cost more or less? It sounds like more + even more additional items. The fact that i'm able to use any type of enchantment to raise another gem's level sounds great, at first. BUT right now, i can fuse those gems and sell them for AD. PLUS get the one i wanted at the same time.
So in the future, i cannot do that anymore... i won't make AD while farming + i cannot just fuse anymore... smells fishy to me.
Half enchantments means half the cost.
The catalysts are irritating fluff...but they can be gathered. And if you don't consider grinding an additional 2K rank 4 enchantment drops as problematic then needing some catalysts should be nothing to grind out comparatively...
But even if you paid for them in the Wondrous Bazaar it wouldn't be worth as much as the 2K Rank 4 Enchants.
But you are likely correct about the AD. Since AD won't be required to increase the rank or remove the enchantments from slots along with a general decrease of enchatments required it will be a massive blow to the enchantment values. Enchantments, particularly high level enchantments, will be far cheaper.
Abbreviations used:
(Normal) Enchantment/Runestone comparison chart of new (refining) vs. old (fusing)-- total amount of items needed
System
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
New
Old
To Rank
5
5
6
6
7
7
8
8
9
9
10
10
Match. ench./rs.
1
4
1
16
1
64
2
256
4
1,024
8
4,096
Non-Match. ench./rs.
6
--
30
--
123
--
508
--
1,784
--
5,872
--
Rank 71
--
--
--
--
--
--
1
--
2
--
4
--
Lesser MoP
2
--
2
--
2
--
4
--
8
--
16
--
MoP
--
1
--
3
--
6
--
12
--
24
--
Greater MoP
--
--
--
1
--
4
--
10
--
P.Ward
1
1
4
13
7
25
10
37
14
53
23
89
I started the refinement process at "to rank 5", because everything below is a regular drop. Therefore you do not need to upgrade the enchantments starting at rank 1--and I wouldn't recommend doing it2.
For the calculation of the "Non-Match. ench./rs." I used the RP value of non-matching (not the same type) enchantments/runestones. I also used the value of rank 4's (135 RPs)--but you can also use rank 1 (5 RP), 2 (15 RP) or 3 (45 RP) as a source for the required RPs.
For calculating the amount of "P.Ward" required, I defined, that 1 "P.Ward" is required from rank 4 to 5, 3 for rank 5 to 6, 3 from 6 to 8, 4 from 8 to 9 and 9 from rank 9 to rank 10. The reason of the difference in the total amount of "P.Ward" between the "Refining" and the "Fusing" system, is that with the "Refining" system you need less "upgrade" steps (e. g. 3 vs. 21 steps from rank 4 to rank 7).
For the RP, you can either use any other enchantment/runestone (aka non-matching) or use matching enchantments/runestones. If you use matching enchantments/runestones, the amount would be half of what is listed in the row "Non-Match. ench./rs."--e. g. for a "Dark Enchantment, Rank 9" you would need in total 896 "Dark Enchantment, Rank 4" (4 + 1,782/2 = 896). In regards to the amount of enchantments/runestones you need: if you keep on using the same type of enchantments/runestones, you will need less, only if you use other type of enchantments/runestones, you will need more. But, the amount of matching runestones till rank 7 stays the same. You need less "P.Wards", but therefore you need some "Mark of Potency".
I didn't include any values for the items, as it depends on how each individual values each item.
Footnotes:
1) The "Rank 7" row is there just for reference, as you would need two rank 7 enchantments to upgrade to rank 8, two rank 8 to upgrade to rank 9 and two rank 9 to upgrade to rank 10. The required amount of items is included in the total amount of items.
2) If you have an abundance of "Minor Mark of Potency", I would recommend to upgrade rank 1 and rank 2 to rank 3. You would only need 1 enchantment/runestone and 1 or 2 "Minor Mark of Potency", but you would triple the RP value of the lower rank. On second thought, I think the "Mark of Potency" have a RP value as well? Need to check it later on the Preview...
This is totally the problem. The cost of the companion/mount upgrades are insane when you compare it to epic quality ones you can just purchase from the AH or the Zen shop. Cut the cost at least in half and you'd have more people upgrading. I mean I can see why they are like that, since they don't want people upgrading and cutting into the purchase of items through the store, but I don't think they'd lose that much business.
But this feedback was given many times so I think as it is now is how it will be forever.
You also have to consider that if the upgrades were more reasonable, more people would buy Zen to convert to AD to purchase these upgrades, so you'd have some balance there, and likely PWE making MORE money.
I had to try it out. My english is HAMSTER and i couldn't understand the system by just reading about it x.x Now i do and i'm LOVING it. It is the best thing that i have seen so far, on the preview patch notes. If cryptic was a dude, he'd be one or two beers richer by now, for sure.
@urrbs :
Thanks for the explanation, i apreciate it.
Pretty much this. It can be set up as currency and that way you just refine everything you get, it goes into the pool and you can upgrade whichever enchants with exactly the right amount. Would be way more simple than current.