Destroyer did get buffed, and it's always been a tree more focused on encounter damage than at-will. You don't have to use or even spec into reaping strike, just use Wicked Strike with WMS and you're fine if AOE dps is what you want to do. You won't have the bonus that Instigator has, but then again Instigator can't have Student of the Sword, Deep Gash and Great Weapon Focus all at once - they have to pick 2 of 3, and they are all big at-will boosts.
No need for Great Weapon Focus, Group Assault will do better job for AoE. The difference might be on how often you recieve damage or not. Unstoppable gives a big boost in WS/WMS weaving, but honestly i don't know how big this can be, and this is what Instigator is missing atm. The only way to get it is by building some with Roar. So in theory (or if you want in my mind),
Instigator with +25% on wicked strike +50% power but -10% on WMSand low uptime on Unstoppable (half bar every ~11 sec from roar at 4+ targets.
On the other hand, Destroyer will have much bigger time on Unstoppable, but he hits weaker (+10% on WMS but -15% on WS, -50% power). Also mind that, WMS can't compete with WS in AoE, the 2 things that make it strong is the extra hit on WS @weaving, and the extra dmg buff, thus the +10% is worth less in this occassion.
So the actual question is, can the extra Unstoppable in Destroyers arsenal compete or outperform Instigator's superiority in bold numbers? I don't know yet (and dont have the knowledge or tools to test it)
Other than that, with both being hit, Instigator will win even without the 50% power, because of what i explained above (+25% on WS>10%WS+10%WMS)
And this is only for just pressing these 2 At-Wills, because if you take into account Allied Opportunity , you get combat advantage for all your team(5% dmg i think?) and an additional 5% crit and dmg for yourself. I think this is better from the alternatives the Destroyer has (10%mitigation, 25% power on Slam for AoE or 25% less cd on Roar/BF if used), Actually, i think only Darting Shout and Powerfull Challenge have a slight chance to compete to this).
No need for Great Weapon Focus, Group Assault will do better job for AoE. The difference might be on how often you recieve damage or not. Unstoppable gives a big boost in WS/WMS weaving, but honestly i don't know how big this can be, and this is what Instigator is missing atm. The only way to get it is by building some with Roar. So in theory (or if you want in my mind),
Instigator with +25% on wicked strike +50% power but -10% on WMSand low uptime on Unstoppable (half bar every ~11 sec from roar at 4+ targets.
On the other hand, Destroyer will have much bigger time on Unstoppable, but he hits weaker (+10% on WMS but -15% on WS, -50% power). Also mind that, WMS can't compete with WS in AoE, the 2 things that make it strong is the extra hit on WS @weaving, and the extra dmg buff, thus the +10% is worth less in this occassion.
So the actual question is, can the extra Unstoppable in Destroyers arsenal compete or outperform Instigator's superiority in bold numbers? I don't know yet (and dont have the knowledge or tools to test it)
Other than that, with both being hit, Instigator will win even without the 50% power, because of what i explained above (+25% on WS>10%WS+10%WMS)
And this is only for just pressing these 2 At-Wills, because if you take into account Allied Opportunity , you get combat advantage for all your team(5% dmg i think?) and an additional 5% crit and dmg for yourself. I think this is better from the alternatives the Destroyer has (10%mitigation, 25% power on Slam for AoE or 25% less cd on Roar/BF if used), Actually, i think only Darting Shout and Powerfull Challenge have a slight chance to compete to this).
Yet animation canceling destroyers will still beat you in dps. With the new relentless battle fury you can have an almost 100% animation canceling uptime due to the reduced cd on BF.
Yet animation canceling destroyers will still beat you in dps. With the new relentless battle fury you can have an almost 100% animation canceling uptime due to the reduced cd on BF.
I have yet to see anyone parse the difference in animation canceling vs. no animation cancelling on a Destroyer (Or anything else, really). Everyone seems to take it as a given that it's a huge increase. I'm just not convinced. Cancelling Sure Strike for a bonus last-hit, maybe, but Reaping Strike? Sure, the recovery time on a Reaping Strike swing is longish but I would be astounded if the difference was more than 5-10% in overall damage. On top of that, people who are using Battle Fury to fill stamina so they can cancel more are using Battle Fury which is pretty terrible outside of it's stamina refill capability. I mean, I'm not saying what they're doing is invalid. Obviously it would increase damage by some percentage, but is really worth the added difficulty and the lack of a real encounter in Battle Fury's slot? Doubtful.
On top of that, it's pretty likely that the developers want to fix Sure Strike cancelling. I'm also pretty sure they can't, or just plain old don't know how to fix it without breaking a dozen other things. Maybe I'm wrong here, but Battle Fury just seems like a giant POS even if it lets you combo cancel more often. It's a ton of extra effort, requires that you use a crappy encounter, and still under performs in single-target.
TBH, one Reaping Strike charge should get you to Unstoppable at which point cancelling is moot with RS. Maybe you guys are just talking about Sure Strike, but the conversation is so all over the place it's tough to tell. Just thought I'd add my thoughts from a RS perspective.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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mellinthMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited June 2013
From my experience using Reaping Strike (I used it pretty much from 1-60 and then a little into t1), it benefits pretty significantly from cancelling. It cuts about a second off the swing and recovery animation if you cancel at the right time. Reaping Strike isn't what he was talking about though.
From my experience using Reaping Strike (I used it pretty much from 1-60 and then a little into t1), it benefits pretty significantly from cancelling. It cuts about a second off the swing and recovery animation if you cancel at the right time. Reaping Strike isn't what he was talking about though.
Yeah, it seemed like the discussion was more about Sure Strike cancelling which is probably the most beneficial thing to cancel if you're into that sort of thing. I can only imagine they will fix the bonus end strike from cancelling Sure Strike though, no way that's working as intended.
I'm sure that'll take them forever though.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
The unstoppable hp boost is awesome! we don't have to waste that much HP pots now. Also I notice the damage buff on Sure Strike, but it's still too weak imo.
The unstoppable hp boost is awesome! we don't have to waste that much HP pots now. Also I notice the damage buff on Sure Strike, but it's still too weak imo.
By default yes, but with Student of the Sword and Destroyer stacks it's at least viable if you only consider single-target DPS output. The ramp-up time on those two class skills combined with Sure Strike is pretty decent, and at least it's there as an option now. Definitely more consistent single-target damage than Reaping Strike. I think the real key to making Sure Strike a contender is Plaguefire weapon enchants, but that's just my opinion.
The HP buff they added seems unreliable and glitchy to me. Have yet to test it in an actual fight though. If you're just fighting dummies and popping Unstoppable it falls off at really strange times, like in the middle of unstoppable. 0.o
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Edit: For clarification, this screenshot was taken on the preview shard just a few minutes ago. The screenshot you guys saw earlier and that caused all this confusion was from closed beta.
Super sweet! I am very pleased with this boost honestly.
The HP buff they added seems unreliable and glitchy to me. Have yet to test it in an actual fight though. If you're just fighting dummies and popping Unstoppable it falls off at really strange times, like in the middle of unstoppable. 0.o
Temporary health points only last as long as you're in combat. I assume they're falling off because the dummies aren't fighting back. I never had an issue with it falling off when I stepped into Dread Vaults to test some stuff.
Temporary health points only last as long as you're in combat. I assume they're falling off because the dummies aren't fighting back. I never had an issue with it falling off when I stepped into Dread Vaults to test some stuff.
But I was fighting them, so I was in combat. I imagine they wouldn't get the chance to naturally fall off while doing a dungeon, or in any situation where you're actually being hit. As I said, did not test it versus actual monsters but it's good to hear that it's working in realistic situations. ^_^
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mellinthMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
But I was fighting them, so I was in combat. I imagine they wouldn't get the chance to naturally fall off while doing a dungeon, or in any situation where you're actually being hit. As I said, did not test it versus actual monsters but it's good to hear that it's working in realistic situations. ^_^
Yeah, I'm assuming there's just something buggy with target dummies and the in combat flag.
One thing I haven't really seen brought up much is that the shorter CDs on our Encounters should lead to more use of Dailies. This to me is a big deal as the GWF has the slowest AP accrual of any of the classes I've played. Being able to crank out more Slams or Crescendos per fight is achingly sweet.
One thing I haven't really seen brought up much is that the shorter CDs on our Encounters should lead to more use of Dailies. This to me is a big deal as the GWF has the slowest AP accrual of any of the classes I've played. Being able to crank out more Slams or Crescendos per fight is achingly sweet.
What slow AP accrual...? My GWF can toss off a slam in under a minute... At least twice as fast as my TR or CW and roughly on par with my DC... The only thing faster is probably the GF...
One thing I haven't really seen brought up much is that the shorter CDs on our Encounters should lead to more use of Dailies. This to me is a big deal as the GWF has the slowest AP accrual of any of the classes I've played. Being able to crank out more Slams or Crescendos per fight is achingly sweet.
The cooldowns were reduced by one second. Hardly earth shattering, and kind of stupid when you stop and think about it.
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profkarateMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
Quick question as I was messing with the feats and noticed this. What does the Feat: Armor Specialization and the Featstone Sentinals Aegis actual do to the armor and defense stat? I did not see any type of number change at all to either the defense numbers or the resist that it gives. Is it a bug? working as intended? something completely different?!?!
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mandragore139Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited June 2013
So they buffed both non destroyer builds especially thanks to SS and WS. WMS might become rendered useless if I understand the numbers right, or we will be forced to switch our at wills every single mob group.
They also buffed not so fast, which i can partially understand, its the closest thing to an aoe encounter we have.
Overall it looks like didn't gave it much thought.
For example, Crescendo received a nice dmg buff, which is great since we lack a good single-target daily. However savaged advance which is basically the same skill, just with more downsides, stays at its dmg output. It didn't even receive a slight buff. And it has so many downsides, since it can be interrupted, even canceled by the enemy (the bad way, so that your AP is gone).
Overall, I see the will yet not the means to actually improve our situation more then just a basic minimum.
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mellinthMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
The cooldowns were reduced by one second. Hardly earth shattering, and kind of stupid when you stop and think about it.
This inspired me to go check encounter cooldowns between live and the preview shard. So here's a table:
Name
Live
Live 0rec
Preview
Preview 0rec
Roar
9.5
11.1
8.8
10.3
Restoring Strike
12.2
15
9.8
12
IDBS
11.4
14
11.4
14
Not So Fast
12.2
15
9.8
12
Mighty Leap
13
16
11.4
14
Takedown
10.1
12
7.4
8.8
Daring Shout
14.7
18
14.7
18
Flourish
11.4
14
11.4
14
Come and Get It
14.7
18
12.2
15
Battle Fury
14.9
17.6
13.5
16
Table shows cooldowns for encounter powers. Numbers under the Live and Preview columns are taken with about 3k recovery. 0rec columns are taken naked without companion. Both include the Relentless Battle Fury feat.
Some of the cooldown reductions are actually pretty significant. A few of them even see the base cooldown drop below what I see on live with 3k recovery. Takedown in particular is going to be incredibly good in PvP next patch with all the love it's getting.
Nice, some of them are better than I thought. I was looking at CaGI, Flourish, IBS, and Roar since those are my most commonly used skills. Should have checked more of them it seems!
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I haven't really played Instigator Spec yet, but Destroyer Spec gets Determination from attacking, something I feel should be a baseline class component for GWFs, because only building it when being hit is pretty silly for a DPS class, it makes sense when we are in fact tanking, but I digress.
I mean in group content everyone but the Tank (pretty much the GF 90% of the time, or should be) should be avoiding damage as best as they can and taking as close to 0 damage as possible, basically they shouldn't be getting hit at all in a perfect world / situation.
I'm specced Sentinel myself even though my guild has two main GF tanks that do all the tanking. I like the survivability and the option to off-tank if needed, but when not off tanking / tanking it would be nice to push out some more DPS.
Every other class seems to be able to build / use their class mechanic pretty efficiently and often, except for GWFs (unless they are specced Destroyer). By default we only build Determination from being Hit and getting Killing Blows, which isn't always easy especially with CWs knocking everything around and doing crazy AoE DPS.
I feel like they should add the building Determination from Attacking to GWFs as a baseline thing and add something else useful to the Destroyer Capstone IMHO. Like make extra Determination on Crit, or whatever.
Daring Shout sucks compared to Roar for determination generation as far as I can tell from experience, and has a much longer cool down to boot. I really hope this patch brings it more on par with Roar, it in fact should generate more determination then Roar IMHO, considering Roar is a interrupt and a pushback / knockback as well, and does decent damage on top of that.
That and I feel like they need to change the way Marks work, Marks should last their ENTIRE duration (something that is abysmally short as it is), pretty dumb that they go away after the marked target hits you. Especially when you're specced as Sentinel using the Intimidation Feat which increases the threat generation of said ability, or even when you're playing Solo, because obviously if your Solo or Pulling threat with the ability the mobs are going to hit you, no brainer there.
So bottom line is I want Marks to last the entire duration (would help our dps overall and make us more helpful in groups), Daring Shout to generate more Determination / Action Points to be more on Par with Roar (and also do more damage with the Intimidation Feat because the 5% is abysmal, but it looks like they are addressing that slightly in the patch), for GWFs to build Determination by attacking at a base line level, and also Indomitable Battle Strike should give you the bonus action points and mark nearby enemies regardless of you getting the killing blow with that encounter or not.
Am I crazy, do others feel this way, would this make us OP, what do you think?
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I just want them to do some sort of change/buff to reaping-strike... They buffed up sure-strike and wicked-strike but didn't touch reaping strike at all.
I just want them to do some sort of change/buff to reaping-strike... They buffed up sure-strike and wicked-strike but didn't touch reaping strike at all.
Reaping Strike is still great for Determination building while doing ok damage (At least for a Destroyer.) It probably didn't really need a buff, but I would have liked to see a change to the Executioner Style feat in the Destroyer tree. As it stands, it just isn't terribly effective as a five point feat investment. (Although satisfying when it's useful.)
I don't know about full duration marks, they're a pretty big DPS increase if you feat into them from Sentinel. If they put the mark buff further up the tree I'd say they should, but as-is it's too easily reached by both Destroyer and Instigator, who could turn marks into something a lot more powerful.
I really don't know why they didn't do just that, to be honest.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I don't know about full duration marks, they're a pretty big DPS increase if you feat into them from Sentinel. If they put the mark buff further up the tree I'd say they should, but as-is it's too easily reached by both Destroyer and Instigator, who could turn marks into something a lot more powerful.
I really don't know why they didn't do just that, to be honest.
Agreed maybe they should move it slightly deeper in the tree if they do change them to last the full duration, would be helpful in group content as well by increasing the parties dps as well, would be nice.
Just finished reading this; am I the only 1 particularly unhappy with the upcoming GWF changes?.. nothing really seems that good. They buffed wicked strike damage, so yay.. instigator GWFs will do more dps... but nothing really happens for destroyer build gwfs. No repeating strike buff? No weapon master's strike buff? Sure, they reduced a few cooldowns... big deal?
All this patch is going to do is is FORCE all GWFs into the instigator build for dps, and make destroyer not viable. If you're going to buff the at-wills, please buff them all! Weapon master's strike and reaping strike need some love too!
I'm pretty excited about the changes. Doesn't look like much but you have to keep in mind the other changes on other classes too. By nerfing CW and getting rid of OP shocking execution on TR, they do give us an extra chance.
The change that I'm looking forward the most is Mighty Leap being considered as a dodge... CW and TR will hate that one.
I've seen people mention that Sure Strike may usurp Weapon Master Strike as one of our two main At-Wills (Wicked Strike being the 2nd of course). I am curious if anyone has specifically tested out the Sure Strike versus WMS on the new shard and what their thoughts were... Thanks in advance for any who can off insight!
I've seen people mention that Sure Strike may usurp Weapon Master Strike as one of our two main At-Wills (Wicked Strike being the 2nd of course). I am curious if anyone has specifically tested out the Sure Strike versus WMS on the new shard and what their thoughts were... Thanks in advance for any who can off insight!
Well I went to the preview shard with the intention of smacking a dummy for a few minutes, using ACT to parse the log and post results. Then a bunch of people started messing with my dummy and giving me combat advantage and other such nonsense so I had to start over a few times. Turns out I also suck at ACT and screwed up my parse and wasted 45 minutes, so I don't have any proof for my claims.
If you want to take my word for it though, here's what I did:
I hit a single target dummy for a minimum of 5 minutes. I then waited for the DPS to stabilize to within 20 dps over the last 30 seconds, hit the dummy for another minute, then stop. If that didn't occur before 10 minutes, I stopped anyway.
WMS did 2756 DPS over 10 minutes.
SS did 3608 DPS over 6 minutes.
Both numbers include Greater Plague Fire which added about 210 DPS for both abilities.
Some observations:
WMS has a very high variance because of its slow attack speed and all-or-nothing approach to crits. This caused SotS to fall off frequently and is the reason I had to test for the full 10 minutes. If both swings crit independently then variance would be lowered and DPS would increase from higher SotS uptime.
SS has a relatively low variance because of its low damage per hit and relatively high attack speed. SotS never fell off while testing SS and as such the DPS stayed pretty consistent after the first minute or so and is why I tested for the minimum 6 minutes.
I don't actually have any points in Wicked Strike as I'm a Destroyer spec, but even though SS does more single target damage, I doubt you would drop WMS as an Insitgator in favor of it because WMS also buffs your WS damage which if I recall correctly is your main damage source.
I'm not sure how useful this actually is, but I did it anyway because I was bored so there ya go.
Just for kicks I decided to test WMS with sprint cancelling. I only gave this one shot and some jerkoff gave me combat advantage at about 4:30 so I just ended the test there. Couple notes before I post the results:
I did not execute it perfectly or anywhere close. I was deliberately being conservative with my timing so that I didn't accidentally lose an attack. I cancelled too late about once every 30-45 seconds or so and lost the entire benefit of cancelling for that swing. I did not run out of stamina at any point, although I was at about 20% when I ended the test. Bottom line is this could have been a lot higher.
This one I do have proof for:
You can see where I got combat advantage in the second picture about 5 seconds before I ended the test. I'll let the rest speak for itself.
guys cmon it's neverwinter, pwe, and cryptic. do u really expect useful patches? do you really expect devs and programmers? well they have like 5 so.... good luck with this game everyone who decides to stay
Comments
No need for Great Weapon Focus, Group Assault will do better job for AoE. The difference might be on how often you recieve damage or not. Unstoppable gives a big boost in WS/WMS weaving, but honestly i don't know how big this can be, and this is what Instigator is missing atm. The only way to get it is by building some with Roar. So in theory (or if you want in my mind),
Instigator with +25% on wicked strike +50% power but -10% on WMSand low uptime on Unstoppable (half bar every ~11 sec from roar at 4+ targets.
On the other hand, Destroyer will have much bigger time on Unstoppable, but he hits weaker (+10% on WMS but -15% on WS, -50% power). Also mind that, WMS can't compete with WS in AoE, the 2 things that make it strong is the extra hit on WS @weaving, and the extra dmg buff, thus the +10% is worth less in this occassion.
So the actual question is, can the extra Unstoppable in Destroyers arsenal compete or outperform Instigator's superiority in bold numbers? I don't know yet (and dont have the knowledge or tools to test it)
Other than that, with both being hit, Instigator will win even without the 50% power, because of what i explained above (+25% on WS>10%WS+10%WMS)
And this is only for just pressing these 2 At-Wills, because if you take into account Allied Opportunity , you get combat advantage for all your team(5% dmg i think?) and an additional 5% crit and dmg for yourself. I think this is better from the alternatives the Destroyer has (10%mitigation, 25% power on Slam for AoE or 25% less cd on Roar/BF if used), Actually, i think only Darting Shout and Powerfull Challenge have a slight chance to compete to this).
No, the bar has to be at least 50% full before you can pop it.
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Yet animation canceling destroyers will still beat you in dps. With the new relentless battle fury you can have an almost 100% animation canceling uptime due to the reduced cd on BF.
I have yet to see anyone parse the difference in animation canceling vs. no animation cancelling on a Destroyer (Or anything else, really). Everyone seems to take it as a given that it's a huge increase. I'm just not convinced. Cancelling Sure Strike for a bonus last-hit, maybe, but Reaping Strike? Sure, the recovery time on a Reaping Strike swing is longish but I would be astounded if the difference was more than 5-10% in overall damage. On top of that, people who are using Battle Fury to fill stamina so they can cancel more are using Battle Fury which is pretty terrible outside of it's stamina refill capability. I mean, I'm not saying what they're doing is invalid. Obviously it would increase damage by some percentage, but is really worth the added difficulty and the lack of a real encounter in Battle Fury's slot? Doubtful.
On top of that, it's pretty likely that the developers want to fix Sure Strike cancelling. I'm also pretty sure they can't, or just plain old don't know how to fix it without breaking a dozen other things. Maybe I'm wrong here, but Battle Fury just seems like a giant POS even if it lets you combo cancel more often. It's a ton of extra effort, requires that you use a crappy encounter, and still under performs in single-target.
TBH, one Reaping Strike charge should get you to Unstoppable at which point cancelling is moot with RS. Maybe you guys are just talking about Sure Strike, but the conversation is so all over the place it's tough to tell. Just thought I'd add my thoughts from a RS perspective.
Yeah, it seemed like the discussion was more about Sure Strike cancelling which is probably the most beneficial thing to cancel if you're into that sort of thing. I can only imagine they will fix the bonus end strike from cancelling Sure Strike though, no way that's working as intended.
I'm sure that'll take them forever though.
By default yes, but with Student of the Sword and Destroyer stacks it's at least viable if you only consider single-target DPS output. The ramp-up time on those two class skills combined with Sure Strike is pretty decent, and at least it's there as an option now. Definitely more consistent single-target damage than Reaping Strike. I think the real key to making Sure Strike a contender is Plaguefire weapon enchants, but that's just my opinion.
The HP buff they added seems unreliable and glitchy to me. Have yet to test it in an actual fight though. If you're just fighting dummies and popping Unstoppable it falls off at really strange times, like in the middle of unstoppable. 0.o
Awesome.
Temporary health points only last as long as you're in combat. I assume they're falling off because the dummies aren't fighting back. I never had an issue with it falling off when I stepped into Dread Vaults to test some stuff.
But I was fighting them, so I was in combat. I imagine they wouldn't get the chance to naturally fall off while doing a dungeon, or in any situation where you're actually being hit. As I said, did not test it versus actual monsters but it's good to hear that it's working in realistic situations. ^_^
Yeah, I'm assuming there's just something buggy with target dummies and the in combat flag.
What slow AP accrual...? My GWF can toss off a slam in under a minute... At least twice as fast as my TR or CW and roughly on par with my DC... The only thing faster is probably the GF...
The cooldowns were reduced by one second. Hardly earth shattering, and kind of stupid when you stop and think about it.
They also buffed not so fast, which i can partially understand, its the closest thing to an aoe encounter we have.
Overall it looks like didn't gave it much thought.
For example, Crescendo received a nice dmg buff, which is great since we lack a good single-target daily. However savaged advance which is basically the same skill, just with more downsides, stays at its dmg output. It didn't even receive a slight buff. And it has so many downsides, since it can be interrupted, even canceled by the enemy (the bad way, so that your AP is gone).
Overall, I see the will yet not the means to actually improve our situation more then just a basic minimum.
This inspired me to go check encounter cooldowns between live and the preview shard. So here's a table:
Name
Live
Live 0rec
Preview
Preview 0rec
Roar
9.5
11.1
8.8
10.3
Restoring Strike
12.2
15
9.8
12
IDBS
11.4
14
11.4
14
Not So Fast
12.2
15
9.8
12
Mighty Leap
13
16
11.4
14
Takedown
10.1
12
7.4
8.8
Daring Shout
14.7
18
14.7
18
Flourish
11.4
14
11.4
14
Come and Get It
14.7
18
12.2
15
Battle Fury
14.9
17.6
13.5
16
Table shows cooldowns for encounter powers. Numbers under the Live and Preview columns are taken with about 3k recovery. 0rec columns are taken naked without companion. Both include the Relentless Battle Fury feat.
Some of the cooldown reductions are actually pretty significant. A few of them even see the base cooldown drop below what I see on live with 3k recovery. Takedown in particular is going to be incredibly good in PvP next patch with all the love it's getting.
I mean in group content everyone but the Tank (pretty much the GF 90% of the time, or should be) should be avoiding damage as best as they can and taking as close to 0 damage as possible, basically they shouldn't be getting hit at all in a perfect world / situation.
I'm specced Sentinel myself even though my guild has two main GF tanks that do all the tanking. I like the survivability and the option to off-tank if needed, but when not off tanking / tanking it would be nice to push out some more DPS.
Every other class seems to be able to build / use their class mechanic pretty efficiently and often, except for GWFs (unless they are specced Destroyer). By default we only build Determination from being Hit and getting Killing Blows, which isn't always easy especially with CWs knocking everything around and doing crazy AoE DPS.
I feel like they should add the building Determination from Attacking to GWFs as a baseline thing and add something else useful to the Destroyer Capstone IMHO. Like make extra Determination on Crit, or whatever.
Daring Shout sucks compared to Roar for determination generation as far as I can tell from experience, and has a much longer cool down to boot. I really hope this patch brings it more on par with Roar, it in fact should generate more determination then Roar IMHO, considering Roar is a interrupt and a pushback / knockback as well, and does decent damage on top of that.
That and I feel like they need to change the way Marks work, Marks should last their ENTIRE duration (something that is abysmally short as it is), pretty dumb that they go away after the marked target hits you. Especially when you're specced as Sentinel using the Intimidation Feat which increases the threat generation of said ability, or even when you're playing Solo, because obviously if your Solo or Pulling threat with the ability the mobs are going to hit you, no brainer there.
So bottom line is I want Marks to last the entire duration (would help our dps overall and make us more helpful in groups), Daring Shout to generate more Determination / Action Points to be more on Par with Roar (and also do more damage with the Intimidation Feat because the 5% is abysmal, but it looks like they are addressing that slightly in the patch), for GWFs to build Determination by attacking at a base line level, and also Indomitable Battle Strike should give you the bonus action points and mark nearby enemies regardless of you getting the killing blow with that encounter or not.
Am I crazy, do others feel this way, would this make us OP, what do you think?
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Reaping Strike is still great for Determination building while doing ok damage (At least for a Destroyer.) It probably didn't really need a buff, but I would have liked to see a change to the Executioner Style feat in the Destroyer tree. As it stands, it just isn't terribly effective as a five point feat investment. (Although satisfying when it's useful.)
@Poison:
I don't know about full duration marks, they're a pretty big DPS increase if you feat into them from Sentinel. If they put the mark buff further up the tree I'd say they should, but as-is it's too easily reached by both Destroyer and Instigator, who could turn marks into something a lot more powerful.
I really don't know why they didn't do just that, to be honest.
Agreed maybe they should move it slightly deeper in the tree if they do change them to last the full duration, would be helpful in group content as well by increasing the parties dps as well, would be nice.
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I'm pretty excited about the changes. Doesn't look like much but you have to keep in mind the other changes on other classes too. By nerfing CW and getting rid of OP shocking execution on TR, they do give us an extra chance.
The change that I'm looking forward the most is Mighty Leap being considered as a dodge... CW and TR will hate that one.
Well I went to the preview shard with the intention of smacking a dummy for a few minutes, using ACT to parse the log and post results. Then a bunch of people started messing with my dummy and giving me combat advantage and other such nonsense so I had to start over a few times. Turns out I also suck at ACT and screwed up my parse and wasted 45 minutes, so I don't have any proof for my claims.
If you want to take my word for it though, here's what I did:
I hit a single target dummy for a minimum of 5 minutes. I then waited for the DPS to stabilize to within 20 dps over the last 30 seconds, hit the dummy for another minute, then stop. If that didn't occur before 10 minutes, I stopped anyway.
WMS did 2756 DPS over 10 minutes.
SS did 3608 DPS over 6 minutes.
Both numbers include Greater Plague Fire which added about 210 DPS for both abilities.
Some observations:
WMS has a very high variance because of its slow attack speed and all-or-nothing approach to crits. This caused SotS to fall off frequently and is the reason I had to test for the full 10 minutes. If both swings crit independently then variance would be lowered and DPS would increase from higher SotS uptime.
SS has a relatively low variance because of its low damage per hit and relatively high attack speed. SotS never fell off while testing SS and as such the DPS stayed pretty consistent after the first minute or so and is why I tested for the minimum 6 minutes.
I don't actually have any points in Wicked Strike as I'm a Destroyer spec, but even though SS does more single target damage, I doubt you would drop WMS as an Insitgator in favor of it because WMS also buffs your WS damage which if I recall correctly is your main damage source.
I'm not sure how useful this actually is, but I did it anyway because I was bored so there ya go.
Just for kicks I decided to test WMS with sprint cancelling. I only gave this one shot and some jerkoff gave me combat advantage at about 4:30 so I just ended the test there. Couple notes before I post the results:
I did not execute it perfectly or anywhere close. I was deliberately being conservative with my timing so that I didn't accidentally lose an attack. I cancelled too late about once every 30-45 seconds or so and lost the entire benefit of cancelling for that swing. I did not run out of stamina at any point, although I was at about 20% when I ended the test. Bottom line is this could have been a lot higher.
This one I do have proof for:
You can see where I got combat advantage in the second picture about 5 seconds before I ended the test. I'll let the rest speak for itself.