Nothing was removed, unstoppable now grants 10% to 20% temp HP and 25% to 50% mitigation as it used to.
They changed it? I am sure when i checked the tooltip last time on test shard it was only giving temporary hit points
0
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm still waiting for 1 useful thing a GWF brings to the dungeon that would benefit having a GWF over bringing x2 CWs or TRs. If no one can list even 1, I rest my case that devs need to actually do something about this class.
I'm still waiting for 1 useful thing a GWF brings to the dungeon that would benefit having a GWF over bringing x2 CWs or TRs. If no one can list even 1, I rest my case that devs need to actually do something about this class.
SoTs, more AoE dps, better dmg mitigation ,ability to tank or kite(new sentinel), more mobility than other classes for certain tasks (mighty leap, pushing charge) , more survivability overall.
That and allow us to hit more than 5 things at a time. Is this true? that GWF have a 5 cap where CWs (and other classes possibly?) don't have any cap? or is this just "propaganda"? lol remember reading it somewhere.
True. GWF 5 cap. CW no cap on some abilities, and cap on others but higher than 5. As soon as I knew of 5 target cap my first thought was 'guy responsible for GWF mechanics proly has IQ of a dead monkey'.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis - RIFT
0
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
most of your suggestions can be cleared up above. Ok, yes, i'll give HALF a point for the tankyness of upcoming gwf changes... but then again, GF do everything you said but better. Not to mention I don't think being pigeon holed into sentinel is how the class was ment to be designed.. Game clearly states GWF's primary role as a damage dealer.
So, in the end, you both provided absolutely nothing. GWFs still have no usefulness at all. NEXT.
It sounds like they are getting rid of the knocking everything off strategy aren't they?
Also I'm not saying or claiming GWFs are fine, I've made plenty of suggestions in this thread and others on ways to tweak, adjust, and fix GWFs and make them better.
I'm still waiting for 1 useful thing a GWF brings to the dungeon that would benefit having a GWF over bringing x2 CWs or TRs. If no one can list even 1, I rest my case that devs need to actually do something about this class.
Two TR were nerfed in the patch with non-stacking bleeds. Considering the damage potential of rogues lies within the bleed, then it's obvious two TR will no longer be a good option. I can't say if the CW nerf's are going to bring their DPS in line, but after rolling a CW and leveling it up to 30 I can say that their abilities are mostly capped at 5 targets. There are exceptions, obviously, but most of them either do very little damage (icy terrain for instance) or do good damage but have long cool downs (shield burst, for instance).
That being said, there are exceptions whereas it doesn't look like there are any exceptions for the GWF. Some might as well hit more than 5 targets, such as slam or WS when considering attack speed, but yeah it's pretty ludicrous that a wizard can bypass the limit in any situation whereas the AoE damage class does not in any situation.
It's also pretty stupid that a wizard can gather up an entire room of add's then burst them for another full tank of AP's to rinse-wash-repeat. I feel that's a big issue that needs looking at, because that little trick by itself is pretty insane even without considering the other things you can stack. I'm definitely seeing why GWF isn't taken, and my CW is only level 30. I can't even imagine how OP it's going to feel when I hit 60.
Sorry to say this, but I'm pretty much over the GWF. It was a fun class, but it's held back far too much and doesn't reward smart game play enough to make me want to log into the class anymore. Even post nerf the other classes are more appealing in both damage and team utility. Sure, the GWF can do a lot of things but it really is a truism that it does none of them as well as the more specialized classes. When the Ranger is inevitably added, GWF is going to fall so far to the wayside that it's just not worth getting invested in pros/cons of the class anymore.
I don't really care if you agree with me or not on how viable the GWF is, but if you are a decent gamer the GWF class feels like it limits your skill far more than any of the other class options. Maybe it's just me, and maybe my play style just fits better with TR or CW, but I wanted to love the GWF. As a matter of fact, I did love it until T2. Post T2 I see no reason to play the class anymore, and while that's sad it turns out you can reach level 60 in under a week with any class. This means it's really, really, really easy to just abandon the class.
Maybe after the third round of balance patching it will become useful. Until then, my 9.7k GWF will gather dust. The new changes do nothing to address any of my core concerns, ergo I'll play the classes that give more bang for my buck.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I'm still waiting for 1 useful thing a GWF brings to the dungeon that would benefit having a GWF over bringing x2 CWs or TRs. If no one can list even 1, I rest my case that devs need to actually do something about this class.
you are looking at the here and now of the unbalanced game.
astral shield is getting nerfed, no more stacking, no more 100% uptime.
groups will actually need fighters to be on the front lines like its supposed to be.
i have no doubt that if the class is not completely fixed in one patch more fixes will follow. not to sound like a fanboi, but they are trying to improve things. if i see someone trying to improve things i usually give them the benefit of the doubt. if they left classes broken for 6+ months like GW2 then i would agree, the class is screwed. that is not the case though.
0
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
you are looking at the here and now of the unbalanced game.
astral shield is getting nerfed, no more stacking, no more 100% uptime.
groups will actually need fighters to be on the front lines like its supposed to be.
i have no doubt that if the class is not completely fixed in one patch more fixes will follow. not to sound like a fanboi, but they are trying to improve things. if i see someone trying to improve things i usually give them the benefit of the doubt. if they left classes broken for 6+ months like GW2 then i would agree, the class is screwed. that is not the case though.
Ur right, the group will need a GF in the front line, which will just replace one of the double clerics in the old meta, making the new meta 1tr/1gf/1dc/2cw. GWFs don't do anything for the dungeon. Kind of like spacejew said, the GWF doesn't provide anything that shines in dungeons, we can do a lot of stuff, but not very efficiently... we can damage, but get out damaged by rogues. We can AoE, but get out shined by CW. we can some-what tank, but get out shined by GF. There's nothing for the GWF to be appealing and needed or even wanted in dungeons. In my previous rants in this thread, i clearly asked for 1, just 1 thing that makes the GWF useful... I still have not received even a single thing that makes people want to bring a GWF into a dungeon party. Being sub-par at a bunch of roles doesn't make the GWF useful, being useful is standing out at a certain role, making people want you in the group.. the GWF does not have this right now.
In my previous rants in this thread, i clearly asked for 1, just 1 thing that makes the GWF useful... I still have not received even a single thing that makes people want to bring a GWF into a dungeon party.
I'll say this much, I didn't see how bad off the GWF was until I rolled other characters.
A good player behind the wheel of any class other than GWF can carry a team. There is no situation where a GWF can carry a team. So really it's just an issue if you feel comfortable being carried versus carrying. GWF is decent enough, it just doesn't shine in any situation.
I'll try it out after the 'balance' patch, but I'm not holding my breath after fooling around with the test server. GWF is in the exact same boat it was before, as other's have pointed out it's not the class it's the dungeons. That being said, it's the class too. Just not as much as the dungeons working against the class.
If they entirely rework GWF it might be useful, but even with giant nerfs to DC, CW, and TR the GWF still doesn't have a place if you're power gaming it. (Which of course most people power game, otherwise 'balance' isn't needed right?)
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
So they say that they have fixed steadfast determination rank 2 and 3, so has anyone tested if this passive actually seems to significantly increase determination gain, maybe even to the point it can be used instead of something like steel blitz etc?
0
ssantiagoxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If I was a gwf I'd be staying low key right now because from what I've seen on test they are going to be first up for nerfage next patch....
Pros: SS buff and reduced CDs across the board
Cons: Unstoppable Force no longer remove all impairment debuffs. As if it isn't already hard enough to catch CWs.
As long as the damage boost in SS is significant, I would be happy with this patch. It seems like you people are expecting way too much.
You realize GWF is the only class that he need to enter in melee range FULL extended with no tricks and nothing in order to do damage huh? Yeah..So they remove the ability to be immune to CC for a couple of seconds..THAT PATHETIC and the CD reduction do you even see what skills they buff? oh yeah i am so happy now i can use leap more fast...WHO THE HELL USE LEAP ON GWF? for real..The only buff that is good is the buff at will and the strike CDR nothing more..The feat stuff is not that great as you think..Because no they force the GFW to play full DPS with no tanky..But hell how are you good do damage when you need to go at melee range and you get CC chain and all the races outdamage you? SO NOW you force me to die even MORE FASTER? yeah WHAT A GREAT BUFFS..
You realize GWF is the only class that he need to enter in melee range FULL extended with no tricks and nothing in order to do damage huh? Yeah..So they remove the ability to be immune to CC for a couple of seconds..THAT PATHETIC (...)
Again:
Unstoppable was fixed to not remove movement buffs, not debuffs.
If I was a gwf I'd be staying low key right now because from what I've seen on test they are going to be first up for nerfage next patch....
Nerfage? What is there to nerf? Unless you're regarding pvp... I haven't done pvp on the test realm yet, but in dungeons they're still as useless as ever.
It seems the fixes don't do anything. You can still knock mobs off bridges/ledges whatnot. A TR will lap you two to three times over. Even if their bleeds don't stack they beat the GWF so badly in dps it doesn't matter. Whatever mitigation or debuff we can offer to that TR in a boss fight pales in comparison to just adding another TR.
I swear I just don't get it. WHAT THE FRAK is the GWF suppose to do? I read the GF forums and they are excited for the most part. Any sentinel build we might have is weak compared to the new GF and it seems they will clearly out dps as well now. It just seems like they hate us. I don't get it. It is already the least played class. I don't understand what they are doing.
I have to admit that whether they fix it or not, once Ranger comes I am leaving the class but man it sure would be nice to have a functional class till then.
Can a dev or someone come on here and explain to us their "vision" of what this class is suppose to be? Tell us what we are doing wrong. Tell us we are just whining little brats and all we to do is this... Tell us something!
My guildmate came on last night and told me he was able to run the CN boss farming run three times and was able to get 2 ancient weapons. I asked which ones. He said the cleric and gwf. I asked if it was FFA loot. He said no, that GWF are not allowed on those runs so it went to greed. Two months of this HAMSTER. Starting to hate Cryptic. At least the guy in charge of the GWF. If you read this dude, the guy in charge of GWF you are an idiot! Ok that is harsh... your handling of the GWF is idiotic!!!
Anybody have the time specs for our shouts and marks? How long do they last?
Marks work exactly the same as on GF, they reduce mitigation of the target a bit, increase your threat against said target and go away when you get hit. I don't actually remember the duration, I want to say 10 seconds but I'll check it later and tell you for sure.
edit: yup, about 10 seconds.
0
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
.... so I'm still waiting for 1 doubter to give me 1, just 1 usefulness or appealing factor a GWF brings to a dungeon party...
Comments
They changed it? I am sure when i checked the tooltip last time on test shard it was only giving temporary hit points
http://www.twitter.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.facebook.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.youtube.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/PoIsOnMaN
http://poisonman.wordpress.com/
SoTs, more AoE dps, better dmg mitigation ,ability to tank or kite(new sentinel), more mobility than other classes for certain tasks (mighty leap, pushing charge) , more survivability overall.
http://www.twitter.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.facebook.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.youtube.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/PoIsOnMaN
http://poisonman.wordpress.com/
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
DPS: more efficient just to bring 2x rogues.
Add control: FARR more efficient just to bring 2x CWs.
AoE DPs: Again, far more efficient to bring 2x CWs just to knock everything off.
See, in reality, you provided no usefulness for the GWF at all.
@theliethesame:
most of your suggestions can be cleared up above. Ok, yes, i'll give HALF a point for the tankyness of upcoming gwf changes... but then again, GF do everything you said but better. Not to mention I don't think being pigeon holed into sentinel is how the class was ment to be designed.. Game clearly states GWF's primary role as a damage dealer.
So, in the end, you both provided absolutely nothing. GWFs still have no usefulness at all. NEXT.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Also I'm not saying or claiming GWFs are fine, I've made plenty of suggestions in this thread and others on ways to tweak, adjust, and fix GWFs and make them better.
http://www.twitter.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.facebook.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.youtube.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/PoIsOnMaN
http://poisonman.wordpress.com/
First time I hear about this. Not true btw
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Two TR were nerfed in the patch with non-stacking bleeds. Considering the damage potential of rogues lies within the bleed, then it's obvious two TR will no longer be a good option. I can't say if the CW nerf's are going to bring their DPS in line, but after rolling a CW and leveling it up to 30 I can say that their abilities are mostly capped at 5 targets. There are exceptions, obviously, but most of them either do very little damage (icy terrain for instance) or do good damage but have long cool downs (shield burst, for instance).
That being said, there are exceptions whereas it doesn't look like there are any exceptions for the GWF. Some might as well hit more than 5 targets, such as slam or WS when considering attack speed, but yeah it's pretty ludicrous that a wizard can bypass the limit in any situation whereas the AoE damage class does not in any situation.
It's also pretty stupid that a wizard can gather up an entire room of add's then burst them for another full tank of AP's to rinse-wash-repeat. I feel that's a big issue that needs looking at, because that little trick by itself is pretty insane even without considering the other things you can stack. I'm definitely seeing why GWF isn't taken, and my CW is only level 30. I can't even imagine how OP it's going to feel when I hit 60.
Sorry to say this, but I'm pretty much over the GWF. It was a fun class, but it's held back far too much and doesn't reward smart game play enough to make me want to log into the class anymore. Even post nerf the other classes are more appealing in both damage and team utility. Sure, the GWF can do a lot of things but it really is a truism that it does none of them as well as the more specialized classes. When the Ranger is inevitably added, GWF is going to fall so far to the wayside that it's just not worth getting invested in pros/cons of the class anymore.
I don't really care if you agree with me or not on how viable the GWF is, but if you are a decent gamer the GWF class feels like it limits your skill far more than any of the other class options. Maybe it's just me, and maybe my play style just fits better with TR or CW, but I wanted to love the GWF. As a matter of fact, I did love it until T2. Post T2 I see no reason to play the class anymore, and while that's sad it turns out you can reach level 60 in under a week with any class. This means it's really, really, really easy to just abandon the class.
Maybe after the third round of balance patching it will become useful. Until then, my 9.7k GWF will gather dust. The new changes do nothing to address any of my core concerns, ergo I'll play the classes that give more bang for my buck.
you are looking at the here and now of the unbalanced game.
astral shield is getting nerfed, no more stacking, no more 100% uptime.
groups will actually need fighters to be on the front lines like its supposed to be.
i have no doubt that if the class is not completely fixed in one patch more fixes will follow. not to sound like a fanboi, but they are trying to improve things. if i see someone trying to improve things i usually give them the benefit of the doubt. if they left classes broken for 6+ months like GW2 then i would agree, the class is screwed. that is not the case though.
Ur right, the group will need a GF in the front line, which will just replace one of the double clerics in the old meta, making the new meta 1tr/1gf/1dc/2cw. GWFs don't do anything for the dungeon. Kind of like spacejew said, the GWF doesn't provide anything that shines in dungeons, we can do a lot of stuff, but not very efficiently... we can damage, but get out damaged by rogues. We can AoE, but get out shined by CW. we can some-what tank, but get out shined by GF. There's nothing for the GWF to be appealing and needed or even wanted in dungeons. In my previous rants in this thread, i clearly asked for 1, just 1 thing that makes the GWF useful... I still have not received even a single thing that makes people want to bring a GWF into a dungeon party. Being sub-par at a bunch of roles doesn't make the GWF useful, being useful is standing out at a certain role, making people want you in the group.. the GWF does not have this right now.
LOL, I'm assuming you're kidding on that one ^_^
I'll say this much, I didn't see how bad off the GWF was until I rolled other characters.
A good player behind the wheel of any class other than GWF can carry a team. There is no situation where a GWF can carry a team. So really it's just an issue if you feel comfortable being carried versus carrying. GWF is decent enough, it just doesn't shine in any situation.
I'll try it out after the 'balance' patch, but I'm not holding my breath after fooling around with the test server. GWF is in the exact same boat it was before, as other's have pointed out it's not the class it's the dungeons. That being said, it's the class too. Just not as much as the dungeons working against the class.
If they entirely rework GWF it might be useful, but even with giant nerfs to DC, CW, and TR the GWF still doesn't have a place if you're power gaming it. (Which of course most people power game, otherwise 'balance' isn't needed right?)
Let me guess, one of them killed you in pvp?
Nope. I don't pvp
You realize GWF is the only class that he need to enter in melee range FULL extended with no tricks and nothing in order to do damage huh? Yeah..So they remove the ability to be immune to CC for a couple of seconds..THAT PATHETIC and the CD reduction do you even see what skills they buff? oh yeah i am so happy now i can use leap more fast...WHO THE HELL USE LEAP ON GWF? for real..The only buff that is good is the buff at will and the strike CDR nothing more..The feat stuff is not that great as you think..Because no they force the GFW to play full DPS with no tanky..But hell how are you good do damage when you need to go at melee range and you get CC chain and all the races outdamage you? SO NOW you force me to die even MORE FASTER? yeah WHAT A GREAT BUFFS..
Again:
Unstoppable was fixed to not remove movement buffs, not debuffs.
Nerfage? What is there to nerf? Unless you're regarding pvp... I haven't done pvp on the test realm yet, but in dungeons they're still as useless as ever.
I swear I just don't get it. WHAT THE FRAK is the GWF suppose to do? I read the GF forums and they are excited for the most part. Any sentinel build we might have is weak compared to the new GF and it seems they will clearly out dps as well now. It just seems like they hate us. I don't get it. It is already the least played class. I don't understand what they are doing.
I have to admit that whether they fix it or not, once Ranger comes I am leaving the class but man it sure would be nice to have a functional class till then.
Can a dev or someone come on here and explain to us their "vision" of what this class is suppose to be? Tell us what we are doing wrong. Tell us we are just whining little brats and all we to do is this... Tell us something!
My guildmate came on last night and told me he was able to run the CN boss farming run three times and was able to get 2 ancient weapons. I asked which ones. He said the cleric and gwf. I asked if it was FFA loot. He said no, that GWF are not allowed on those runs so it went to greed. Two months of this HAMSTER. Starting to hate Cryptic. At least the guy in charge of the GWF. If you read this dude, the guy in charge of GWF you are an idiot! Ok that is harsh... your handling of the GWF is idiotic!!!
... most assuredly not barbarian-like.
Marks work exactly the same as on GF, they reduce mitigation of the target a bit, increase your threat against said target and go away when you get hit. I don't actually remember the duration, I want to say 10 seconds but I'll check it later and tell you for sure.
edit: yup, about 10 seconds.