How are we expecting too much? We are expecting a working DPS class which is completely broken atm...
That's the problem, you're a hybrid class not a striker class. Too many GWFs keep comparing themselves to TRs and totally neglect that you are supposed to provide support by off tanking adds. Your AoE damage is perfectly fine but remember that you aren't the only class that brings AoE. Embrace your intended role especially now that DCs are being nerfed and you should start to find groups.
That's the problem, you're a hybrid class not a striker class. Too many GWFs keep comparing themselves to TRs and totally neglect that you are supposed to provide support by off tanking adds. Your AoE damage is perfectly fine but remember that you aren't the only class that brings AoE. Embrace your intended role especially now that DCs are being nerfed and you should start to find groups.
I would love to agree with you, man... but the problem is not TR's it's CWs. CWs do our job better than we do at offtanking adds... by a large margin. Plus, they bring so much more to bear in everything else as well. They have no target cap... think about that.
I would love to agree with you, man... but the problem is not TR's it's CWs. CWs do our job better than we do at offtanking adds... by a large margin. Plus, they bring so much more to bear in everything else as well. They have no target cap... think about that.
You know what we are best at? Getting hit. LOL
But CWs aren't off tanking anything, they are securely sitting in double astral shields when they AoE. That's all about to change though. We will need a tougher class to wrangle up the adds and hold aggro. CWs will get flattened next patch if no one is there to keep the threat off of them. Same with everyone else. Thus the role of GWFs.
That's the problem, you're a hybrid class not a striker class. Too many GWFs keep comparing themselves to TRs and totally neglect that you are supposed to provide support by off tanking adds. Your AoE damage is perfectly fine but remember that you aren't the only class that brings AoE. Embrace your intended role especially now that DCs are being nerfed and you should start to find groups.
from the official wiki
Great Weapon Fighter
Role:
Damage Dealer
Secondary Defender
That tells me that yes they are a striker but when they are the lowest in damage then we have a problem. Yes GWF should be compared to a TR, the AOE version which, btw striking multiple mobs should make GWF the highest dps in any dungeon. The problem lies with the fact that they do not do much damage at all vs other classes, are capped at 5 targets max so the damage rotates around dropping the already low damage. Before you say that TR are the top dps, yes i agree with you TR should be the top SINGLE target dps. As soon as you bring 2 + mobs the GWF should outdamage a TR, sadly the GWF got gimped so bad that it takes 5-8 swings to kill 5 mobs, the TR drops them in 1. Every mob the TR kills is one less attacking the group. i would rather have 3 dead mobs 2 live mobs hitting the DC than 5 75%ish mobs hitting the DC. Now add in the CW, who are the kings of control as they should be, but now they over double the damage of a GWF have NO cap on targets, can punt stuff, can dodge, can CC ... umm ok so they are a better version GWF with range.
But CWs aren't off tanking anything, they are securely sitting in double astral shields when they AoE. That's all about to change though. We will need a tougher class to wrangle up the adds and hold aggro. CWs will get flattened next patch if no one is there to keep the threat off of them. Same with everyone else. Thus the role of GWFs.
Hold aggro on what exactly? if the CW is built right and doing his job, everything is getting thrown off into the pits, there should never be more then 3-4 mobs to fight, easily manageable. still no job for us. and if there is some down time in there, just bring that second Cw, down time covered far more effectively then bring in a GWF who will do less damage, and has less control, unless you are speced for tanking because you know, HYBRID... oh wait...
Improved At-Will damage and reduced encounter power cooldowns are very important, since that affects both our overall dps and our AP generation. Our At-Wills in particular had very, very poor base damage which is one of the biggest things plaguing the class in terms of raw numbers. Fixed threat gain for Sentinels is pretty big, too, given that the class had no good ways to keep aggro before.
The changes to healing aggro and Astral Shield are liable to shake up dungeon party dynamics enough to where Fighters are worth considering.
The fact that CW's can still throw mobs off ledges is an issue, and probably the last big one worth pointing at. That's a fault of the dungeons' actual design and implementation though, not some mystically at-its-core broken set of class mechanics. The GWF is going to do what it was meant to do better next patch, it's just that CW will, very likely, still do it better unless a lot of terrain changes are made.
even without the terrain mechanics CW will still out perform a GWF. More damage + more control + range + evades = better class. GWF doesnt do near the damage it should, especially with the 5 mob cap. You are right though it might shake up party dynamics... GF will be welcome in groups now!
That's the problem, you're a hybrid class not a striker class. Too many GWFs keep comparing themselves to TRs and totally neglect that you are supposed to provide support by off tanking adds. Your AoE damage is perfectly fine but remember that you aren't the only class that brings AoE. Embrace your intended role especially now that DCs are being nerfed and you should start to find groups.
TRs can avoid way more damage than GWFs can take, comparably. CWs can kite adds around until the cows come home, and have good AoE damage. Explain what role a GWF has.
TRs can avoid way more damage than GWFs can take, comparably. CWs can kite adds around until the cows come home, and have good AoE damage. Explain what role a GWF has.
Have you tried the changes on test? Also you undoubtedly need spec/trait for some survivability.
0
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's the problem, you're a hybrid class not a striker class. Too many GWFs keep comparing themselves to TRs and totally neglect that you are supposed to provide support by off tanking adds. Your AoE damage is perfectly fine but remember that you aren't the only class that brings AoE. Embrace your intended role especially now that DCs are being nerfed and you should start to find groups.
You seriously need to reconsider your thoughts on GWFs. Do you even know what "primary" and "secondary" stand for?.. GWFs are DAMAGE DEALERS. Mere fact we get out damaged while we're doing AoE to a single target damage dealer is just broken.
P.s. Not to sound like a broken record.. or an annoying *******.. but I'm still waiting for 1, just 1 reason that makes GWFs desirable in dungeons and makes then shine and wanted. Just 1.. come on guys.
They cant, even a lot of the die hard RAW RAW GWF! people lost faith when they tried out test. The only ones that seem to think they are fine have never played anything else and are just going to argue with you based on their own stubbornness.
They cant, even a lot of the die hard RAW RAW GWF! people lost faith when they tried out test. The only ones that seem to think they are fine have never played anything else and are just going to argue with you based on their own stubbornness.
Ah, yes, hyperbole, anecdotes, and speaking for an invisible legion of individuals not present: the ultimate proof.
You seriously need to reconsider your thoughts on GWFs. Do you even know what "primary" and "secondary" stand for?.. GWFs are DAMAGE DEALERS. Mere fact we get out damaged while we're doing AoE to a single target damage dealer is just broken.
P.s. Not to sound like a broken record.. or an annoying *******.. but I'm still waiting for 1, just 1 reason that makes GWFs desirable in dungeons and makes then shine and wanted. Just 1.. come on guys.
Do you know what the difference between being a striker and not are? You aren't a striker, you are a hybrid. You do AoE damage and your role is to manage adds via threat mechanics and damage mitigation. You keep wanting to ignore the other aspects of your class which are what make you unique and why people would want to bring you in the first place. You keep hanging onto that stupid text description that Cryptic attached to the class while ignoring everything else. You're not going to be able to wish the class into being a barbarian no matter how hard you try.
TRs are being nerfed too in case you haven't noticed.
Do you know what the difference between being a striker and not are? You aren't a striker, you are a hybrid. You do AoE damage and your role is to manage adds via threat mechanics and damage mitigation. You keep wanting to ignore the other aspects of your class which are what make you unique and why people would want to bring you in the first place. You keep hanging onto that stupid text description that Cryptic attached to the class while ignoring everything else. You're not going to be able to wish the class into being a barbarian no matter how hard you try.
TRs are being nerfed too in case you haven't noticed.
Yes that's what sentinel build is all about offtanking. While GF tank the big boss.. we tank the adds hence all of those AOE threat generation tools at our disposal.
So that's actually what's happening? I could have sworn that the TR tanks the Boss, and the DC + CWs on adds.
Do you know what the difference between being a striker and not are? You aren't a striker, you are a hybrid. You do AoE damage and your role is to manage adds via threat mechanics and damage mitigation. You keep wanting to ignore the other aspects of your class which are what make you unique and why people would want to bring you in the first place. You keep hanging onto that stupid text description that Cryptic attached to the class while ignoring everything else. You're not going to be able to wish the class into being a barbarian no matter how hard you try.
TRs are being nerfed too in case you haven't noticed.
It seems you're the one who is completely missing the point. Enf-game content caters to 3 specific roles, not "hybrid" but "specific".
1) Astral Shield Role (notice I didn't say Healing role) 2) Single target "Boss" dps 3) Managing Adds (Which consists of CC AND AoE dps, but it is still ONE role).
Your argument, if I am understanding you correctly, is that a GWF fits the 3rd role and then you added the word "hybrid". I know why you used the word "hybrid". It is your way of rationalizing why the class doesn't excel at ANYTHING. When, in Guild chat/Zone Chat/ANY chat, did you hear someone say "Looking for GWF to fill 5th spot of CN run"? Then recall how often you see someone saying "Looking for DC or CW or TR".
This happens everyday, not because people are ignorant or oblivious to the role of a GWF, but because of the reality that the class lacks one to begin with. OR you can say that the class is perfectly fine, but it is the CONTENT and its mechanics that cater only to these other 3 classes. Either way, boosting the damage here or there, reducing CDs on some powers, will have little to no effect on the role of the class.
Instead of completely overhauling the class, Cryptic decided to go the easy route. And that is to nerf or change some of the powers of the other classes do discourage the stacking of said Classes. In a sense, they figured, if we make stacking 2 DCs, 2 TRs, or 2 CWs, just as undesirable as taking a GWF, then the problem is solved. You really have to give them credit for the thought process.
In a sense, they figured, if we make stacking 2 DCs, 2 TRs, or 2 CWs, just as undesirable as taking a GWF, then the problem is solved. You really have to give them credit for the thought process.
Basically, although in all fairness there are a metric ton of things that don't even work at all let alone 'as intended'.
I have to wonder if CW is going to get hit with the nerf bat next, but frankly Cryptic can't afford to nerf a class that half the feats/class abilities don't work period. It's even more boggling to consider that CW are doing GWF DPS with half their feats.
They 'fixed' TR so it's less desirable to take two, but they haven't figured out how to 'fix' CW to put it solidly behind GWF damage.
So if it's cool for TR to beat GWF in DPS, and it's cool for CW to beat GWF in DPS, and it's cool for GF to beat GWF in DPS, then pray tell what is GWF good at? Aggro? Aggro from what? Add's that are juggled or dead, or on a boss that's glued to the rogues face?
Calling it a hybrid and saying that gives an entire class the excuse to underperform in T2 content is ridiculous. Of course it's a hyrbid, but I do not think that word means what you think it means.
It means it can do two things, kind of like how GF can tank/DPS or CW can control/DPS or how clerics can heal/DPS or how rogues can DPS/tank. GWF can tank add's, that's not the question. It's just that there are no add's worth tanking. It can DPS too, but it's not worth the crappy tanking that's not needed for the paltry DPS it brings. It is worth bringing extra control, but not extra tanking.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
i find it very frustrating to play GWF even though i love the class. i am taken into CN for 2 purposes only. debuffing boss and occasionally resurrecting someone
Play the class you like and try to play with friends who overlook a incrementally shorter boss fight balanced against having a friend in the group playing the class he likes. We lost our TR at 70% last night I was the only DPS on Dracolich for the rest of the fight. It took forever, but it's doable.
Steelkat/Unfrozen Caveman - DCs
Guild Leader of MOPP4 MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
Could someone for gods sake please give us a feedback regarding PVP?
It looks like people doesnt even run pvp and keep correctly whining about PVE issues.
Could someone for gods sake please give us a feedback regarding PVP?
It looks like people doesnt even run pvp and keep correctly whining about PVE issues.
The best way to PvP is by doing PvE. Gear is all that matters, and PvP wont give you that. Game is PvE based, and PvP is secondary ,deal with it.
Comments
That HAMSTER got TONS of SWAG!!!! ... but that's about all he got 8)
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
That's the problem, you're a hybrid class not a striker class. Too many GWFs keep comparing themselves to TRs and totally neglect that you are supposed to provide support by off tanking adds. Your AoE damage is perfectly fine but remember that you aren't the only class that brings AoE. Embrace your intended role especially now that DCs are being nerfed and you should start to find groups.
I would love to agree with you, man... but the problem is not TR's it's CWs. CWs do our job better than we do at offtanking adds... by a large margin. Plus, they bring so much more to bear in everything else as well. They have no target cap... think about that.
You know what we are best at? Getting hit. LOL
But CWs aren't off tanking anything, they are securely sitting in double astral shields when they AoE. That's all about to change though. We will need a tougher class to wrangle up the adds and hold aggro. CWs will get flattened next patch if no one is there to keep the threat off of them. Same with everyone else. Thus the role of GWFs.
from the official wiki
Great Weapon Fighter
Role:
Damage Dealer
Secondary Defender
That tells me that yes they are a striker but when they are the lowest in damage then we have a problem. Yes GWF should be compared to a TR, the AOE version which, btw striking multiple mobs should make GWF the highest dps in any dungeon. The problem lies with the fact that they do not do much damage at all vs other classes, are capped at 5 targets max so the damage rotates around dropping the already low damage. Before you say that TR are the top dps, yes i agree with you TR should be the top SINGLE target dps. As soon as you bring 2 + mobs the GWF should outdamage a TR, sadly the GWF got gimped so bad that it takes 5-8 swings to kill 5 mobs, the TR drops them in 1. Every mob the TR kills is one less attacking the group. i would rather have 3 dead mobs 2 live mobs hitting the DC than 5 75%ish mobs hitting the DC. Now add in the CW, who are the kings of control as they should be, but now they over double the damage of a GWF have NO cap on targets, can punt stuff, can dodge, can CC ... umm ok so they are a better version GWF with range.
Hold aggro on what exactly? if the CW is built right and doing his job, everything is getting thrown off into the pits, there should never be more then 3-4 mobs to fight, easily manageable. still no job for us. and if there is some down time in there, just bring that second Cw, down time covered far more effectively then bring in a GWF who will do less damage, and has less control, unless you are speced for tanking because you know, HYBRID... oh wait...
The changes to healing aggro and Astral Shield are liable to shake up dungeon party dynamics enough to where Fighters are worth considering.
The fact that CW's can still throw mobs off ledges is an issue, and probably the last big one worth pointing at. That's a fault of the dungeons' actual design and implementation though, not some mystically at-its-core broken set of class mechanics. The GWF is going to do what it was meant to do better next patch, it's just that CW will, very likely, still do it better unless a lot of terrain changes are made.
TRs can avoid way more damage than GWFs can take, comparably. CWs can kite adds around until the cows come home, and have good AoE damage. Explain what role a GWF has.
Have you tried the changes on test? Also you undoubtedly need spec/trait for some survivability.
You seriously need to reconsider your thoughts on GWFs. Do you even know what "primary" and "secondary" stand for?.. GWFs are DAMAGE DEALERS. Mere fact we get out damaged while we're doing AoE to a single target damage dealer is just broken.
P.s. Not to sound like a broken record.. or an annoying *******.. but I'm still waiting for 1, just 1 reason that makes GWFs desirable in dungeons and makes then shine and wanted. Just 1.. come on guys.
Ah, yes, hyperbole, anecdotes, and speaking for an invisible legion of individuals not present: the ultimate proof.
Do you know what the difference between being a striker and not are? You aren't a striker, you are a hybrid. You do AoE damage and your role is to manage adds via threat mechanics and damage mitigation. You keep wanting to ignore the other aspects of your class which are what make you unique and why people would want to bring you in the first place. You keep hanging onto that stupid text description that Cryptic attached to the class while ignoring everything else. You're not going to be able to wish the class into being a barbarian no matter how hard you try.
TRs are being nerfed too in case you haven't noticed.
And CW is primary control...oh snap....now what?
So that's actually what's happening? I could have sworn that the TR tanks the Boss, and the DC + CWs on adds.
It seems you're the one who is completely missing the point. Enf-game content caters to 3 specific roles, not "hybrid" but "specific".
1) Astral Shield Role (notice I didn't say Healing role) 2) Single target "Boss" dps 3) Managing Adds (Which consists of CC AND AoE dps, but it is still ONE role).
Your argument, if I am understanding you correctly, is that a GWF fits the 3rd role and then you added the word "hybrid". I know why you used the word "hybrid". It is your way of rationalizing why the class doesn't excel at ANYTHING. When, in Guild chat/Zone Chat/ANY chat, did you hear someone say "Looking for GWF to fill 5th spot of CN run"? Then recall how often you see someone saying "Looking for DC or CW or TR".
This happens everyday, not because people are ignorant or oblivious to the role of a GWF, but because of the reality that the class lacks one to begin with. OR you can say that the class is perfectly fine, but it is the CONTENT and its mechanics that cater only to these other 3 classes. Either way, boosting the damage here or there, reducing CDs on some powers, will have little to no effect on the role of the class.
Instead of completely overhauling the class, Cryptic decided to go the easy route. And that is to nerf or change some of the powers of the other classes do discourage the stacking of said Classes. In a sense, they figured, if we make stacking 2 DCs, 2 TRs, or 2 CWs, just as undesirable as taking a GWF, then the problem is solved. You really have to give them credit for the thought process.
Basically, although in all fairness there are a metric ton of things that don't even work at all let alone 'as intended'.
I have to wonder if CW is going to get hit with the nerf bat next, but frankly Cryptic can't afford to nerf a class that half the feats/class abilities don't work period. It's even more boggling to consider that CW are doing GWF DPS with half their feats.
They 'fixed' TR so it's less desirable to take two, but they haven't figured out how to 'fix' CW to put it solidly behind GWF damage.
So if it's cool for TR to beat GWF in DPS, and it's cool for CW to beat GWF in DPS, and it's cool for GF to beat GWF in DPS, then pray tell what is GWF good at? Aggro? Aggro from what? Add's that are juggled or dead, or on a boss that's glued to the rogues face?
Calling it a hybrid and saying that gives an entire class the excuse to underperform in T2 content is ridiculous. Of course it's a hyrbid, but I do not think that word means what you think it means.
It means it can do two things, kind of like how GF can tank/DPS or CW can control/DPS or how clerics can heal/DPS or how rogues can DPS/tank. GWF can tank add's, that's not the question. It's just that there are no add's worth tanking. It can DPS too, but it's not worth the crappy tanking that's not needed for the paltry DPS it brings. It is worth bringing extra control, but not extra tanking.
imho that is not enough.
Guild Leader of MOPP4
MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
I've Rez'd so many people because of Sprint it's not even funny... GWFs Guardian Angels Club United!
It looks like people doesnt even run pvp and keep correctly whining about PVE issues.
Great Ambulance fighter?
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
The best way to PvP is by doing PvE. Gear is all that matters, and PvP wont give you that. Game is PvE based, and PvP is secondary ,deal with it.