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Concerns regarding artifact-drops
wenche78
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
So I started to wonder more and more about this belt-and cloak-drops, in both SoT, LoL, Well of Dragons and even the Dragons in Whispering caverns and Rothe.
First I went through the whole of mod4 with zero belt or book-drops anywhere.
Now since mod 5 came I have gone through Well of dragons, Sot, LoL and 3-4 dragons daily. Thing is, I am hardcore player. I truly farm both the dragon and the events in WoD every day.
Still, I am yet to see any drops.
Through both this mods I have information from many friends about their drops. I quickly started to see a pattern form up, and it was only comfirmed more when this mod came out.
Some players got belts on a regular basis in mod 4, from any of the drop-places. Also they got some books. Others got absolutely nothing.
When I saw the same pattern on the same players in mod 5, I started to wonder.
Therefor I started to talk to people, both those that farm a lot, and those who only play a few hours a day.
I asked this people how much they farmed daily, how much drops they got and so forth. Then I expanded this to whispering people in zonechat that was complaining about no loot OR saying Huzza about new artifacts in their inventory.
I wrote this down and I have talked to a lot of different people, even people i know and and a lot of complete strangers from zonechat.
What my paper in front of me clearly say is this:
- Some people get artifacts constantly. Most players are now in WoD and are getting belts and artifacts from there. This players also got drops in mod 4.
- Some people have rinse and repeat from mod 4 - absolutely no drops.
What also is clear is that the amount of time they farm isnt all that important. And it clearly show that great success or not dont matter as much as players think. Many say that they get drop either way, sometime on great success, other times on just encounter complete.
-I see players who basically live in WoD all day and tell me they play almost all their time they are awake. And a huge group of this people never get any drops, and just end up with stacks after stacks of potions, enchants and coins. This was the same for them in Mod 4. The non-drop-players-group ofcourse also include people who play just a few hours a day and those who play a average amount, wich ofc will result in a lower droprate, but we are still seeing a big group of players who farm all day without drop.
- Then we have another group - the group that either - farm all day and are swimming in belts, artifacts and books.
Then we got the group who just poke their head in for a few dragons and events a day. The strange part here is that this people also get a lot of drops. I have heard of players who have done 4 events and gotten 3-4 drops, and some even get 4-8 drops daily. Some get 1-2 a day. The examples are a mixed, but the result is the same; a lot of drops compared to time played/compared to constant-farming unlycky ones.
It is also worth mentioning that this players had the same experience in mod 4.
I have followed the progress for a while now, and I have always made sure to ask those I talk to about their experience with mod 4 for a comparison. I felt it was time to ask a bit on the forum about this, because as I see it, this is not likely being a conisidence. I am wondering what this is all about.
How can a player who play all day, farm all day, get nothing, while others who play less or the same get endless amounts - week after week and month after month?
The thing that im not surpriced about is that a lot of the unlycky people said the same thing:
"I dont know how long I will be staying in this game. The effort and time doesnt make up for it, its demoralizing to never get any payment for your work, while other who work much less get rewarded almost daily for just showing up. I gotta admidt, even tho i love this game and play all day - is also basically my feeling about this at the current moment.
One of the people I talked a lot too quit the game 2 days ago. It was that who made me want to write on the forum.
Are the Devs aware of this? And why is it like this? Is there some error in the drop-system on the accounts?
Ofcourse some will say; hey, mod 5 hasnt been out long, youll get your drop - and yes, that is true, it hasnt been out long. But what about mod 4 with same results for all those months? The same pattern?
I am not the only player out there who is wondering about this. Some of those I have befriended know I am writing here now, and they are wondering the same as me. So, is there a answer to this question for all of the bad-luck-players out there? Will the answer simply be - you just havent gotten the drop yet?...for the last 6 months...? Doesnt add up...
I am expecting this post to be stopped for reply, but before you do - this isnt a attack on you Dev`s. This is a serious issue and we simply would like to know if there is something you havent noticed with dropbugs on accounts.
Speaking for many, there is only so much farming we can do and smile just by getting potions and coins...
And we would love to hear if anyone else has been noticing this pattern.
Thank you
First I went through the whole of mod4 with zero belt or book-drops anywhere.
Now since mod 5 came I have gone through Well of dragons, Sot, LoL and 3-4 dragons daily. Thing is, I am hardcore player. I truly farm both the dragon and the events in WoD every day.
Still, I am yet to see any drops.
Through both this mods I have information from many friends about their drops. I quickly started to see a pattern form up, and it was only comfirmed more when this mod came out.
Some players got belts on a regular basis in mod 4, from any of the drop-places. Also they got some books. Others got absolutely nothing.
When I saw the same pattern on the same players in mod 5, I started to wonder.
Therefor I started to talk to people, both those that farm a lot, and those who only play a few hours a day.
I asked this people how much they farmed daily, how much drops they got and so forth. Then I expanded this to whispering people in zonechat that was complaining about no loot OR saying Huzza about new artifacts in their inventory.
I wrote this down and I have talked to a lot of different people, even people i know and and a lot of complete strangers from zonechat.
What my paper in front of me clearly say is this:
- Some people get artifacts constantly. Most players are now in WoD and are getting belts and artifacts from there. This players also got drops in mod 4.
- Some people have rinse and repeat from mod 4 - absolutely no drops.
What also is clear is that the amount of time they farm isnt all that important. And it clearly show that great success or not dont matter as much as players think. Many say that they get drop either way, sometime on great success, other times on just encounter complete.
-I see players who basically live in WoD all day and tell me they play almost all their time they are awake. And a huge group of this people never get any drops, and just end up with stacks after stacks of potions, enchants and coins. This was the same for them in Mod 4. The non-drop-players-group ofcourse also include people who play just a few hours a day and those who play a average amount, wich ofc will result in a lower droprate, but we are still seeing a big group of players who farm all day without drop.
- Then we have another group - the group that either - farm all day and are swimming in belts, artifacts and books.
Then we got the group who just poke their head in for a few dragons and events a day. The strange part here is that this people also get a lot of drops. I have heard of players who have done 4 events and gotten 3-4 drops, and some even get 4-8 drops daily. Some get 1-2 a day. The examples are a mixed, but the result is the same; a lot of drops compared to time played/compared to constant-farming unlycky ones.
It is also worth mentioning that this players had the same experience in mod 4.
I have followed the progress for a while now, and I have always made sure to ask those I talk to about their experience with mod 4 for a comparison. I felt it was time to ask a bit on the forum about this, because as I see it, this is not likely being a conisidence. I am wondering what this is all about.
How can a player who play all day, farm all day, get nothing, while others who play less or the same get endless amounts - week after week and month after month?
The thing that im not surpriced about is that a lot of the unlycky people said the same thing:
"I dont know how long I will be staying in this game. The effort and time doesnt make up for it, its demoralizing to never get any payment for your work, while other who work much less get rewarded almost daily for just showing up. I gotta admidt, even tho i love this game and play all day - is also basically my feeling about this at the current moment.
One of the people I talked a lot too quit the game 2 days ago. It was that who made me want to write on the forum.
Are the Devs aware of this? And why is it like this? Is there some error in the drop-system on the accounts?
Ofcourse some will say; hey, mod 5 hasnt been out long, youll get your drop - and yes, that is true, it hasnt been out long. But what about mod 4 with same results for all those months? The same pattern?
I am not the only player out there who is wondering about this. Some of those I have befriended know I am writing here now, and they are wondering the same as me. So, is there a answer to this question for all of the bad-luck-players out there? Will the answer simply be - you just havent gotten the drop yet?...for the last 6 months...? Doesnt add up...
I am expecting this post to be stopped for reply, but before you do - this isnt a attack on you Dev`s. This is a serious issue and we simply would like to know if there is something you havent noticed with dropbugs on accounts.
Speaking for many, there is only so much farming we can do and smile just by getting potions and coins...
And we would love to hear if anyone else has been noticing this pattern.
Thank you
Post edited by wenche78 on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
And it's only been a week. And when the Tiamat event goes live, it'll be much easier to get your belt/neck/offhand via the Contributing to the Hoard quest. So if you've been really unlucky, but have stocked up on coffers, coins and daily currency, you should be really close to being able to get your items when the quest goes live.
Reference:
we all know this game have patterns like if someone drop something, then he has a great chance drop something another run, so who knows how it work...
Never got a belt or an artifact from those dragon encounters. I did have a twinned rope of dexterity drop in eLoL though. And the funniest part was it happened 1 hour before my birthday, which left me stunned somewhat. It just magically appeared in my inventory.
WTB Class Reroll please
It also exists in other "f2p" MMOs. A loot cap. Each day GMs come at the area with their angel wings and harp, and they spill half a dozen loot. Once all the loot is looted, it's over, you won't get anything in the said area however hard you farm.
I never saw any hard evidence but one theory was that your "luck" was decreased if you spent too long doing the same thing (area/dungeon/raid/whatever). Your luck would "reset" after you have spent a bit of time in other parts of the game.
However, that would not fit the OP's observations although I do wonder how accurate some of that info is, given that it depends partially on claims from random players. Lots of people think they are more unlucky than the norm! Someone on here was complaining about poor equipment drops and bad luck but then said he had a full stack of coffers...
There's no conspiracy or magic here. RNG is RNG.
The RNG is both Streaky as all heck and plays Favorites.
Always has.
But here's the thing:
You can make that Streakiness work FOR you.
You only need to, say, run you three Skirmishes a day.
If you are just SHOWERED in the best loot in the game then you know that you are "Lucky" for a while.
Then you farm you heart out for as long as it lasts.
If you get nothing, then except that you will get nothing anywhere no matter what you do.
Don't bother expecting anything from anything for any reason.
Heck, I rarely even see COFFERS drop from Dragon Encounters, much less real loot.
I have managed to get two pieces of Purple Gear for other classes that sell for less on the AH than I would get for Salvaging them, though.
I consider those my "Big Wins" for the event thus far (and I've done maybe 50 Dragons total) usually I get just a potion or a scroll, a couple of Coins, maybe a low level enchant.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
What is classic is that those who get drops usually starts the conversations with; "Its just to do like this and that, and you gotta farm more!" and so forth, completely unaware of the amount of time the poor bugger spend running around chasing dragons and everything else moving with nothing to show for it.
Lets just take myself and a lot of friends and strangers alike that have run lol, sot, dragons and WoD all day in 2 modules:
Lets say that this players do this for say 5-6 months (wich is the case). We talk about daily farming for the grand jewel, from morning until evening, and the reward never arrives. The luck-streak you speak of, never come.
Then we look at the other group of people who get loot daily. And trust me, there is a lot of those out there. Those who has drawn the long straw, they do not get 1-2 belts and cloaks "sometimes", they get it constantly, even if its constant farming or only a few runs a day. We are talking about accounts that can hardly walk into WoD without hitting jackpot on a daily basis. It is not a lucky streak, its a lucky "now and forever"
We all agree that drops are all about Luck in games (or at least should be)
In this game it seems that it is the same people who get lucky every day, month after month, mod after mod, while others, who often farm a lot more than the lucky-group, never get a drop.
We are talking about a span over several months here, over 2 modules. Is it logically to say that this is "just luck" then? I am not so sure anymore.
I am also reffering to the guy who wrote that "soon you can get the items by the merchant/campaign."
Sure you can. But here is the thing:
Humans enjoy things that give rewards. If a reward never come, you will loose interest and stop doing it.
In games this is even more important, and I understand that this is difficult for those Lucky players out there to understand, but: When you play a game for month after month and you never get the reward you are trying to get maybe 10-12 hours a day, then a person will be so demoralized that he give up. Farming and buying the loot really isnt the same, its not a reward.
And in this game, this artifactbelts-and cloaks are the only thing worth getting out there (with a few exeptions of the extremely rare artifacts in VT and so forth). It is very little else that give Astral Diamonds, and those few things that are worth a bit from f.eks CN, and VT, well it simply isnt time to go there, cause we are busy running around in WoD.
If a game has no "HUZZA!" - moments, we get frustrated and in the end move on. It is just how it is.
Again, I belive this is hard for the lucky players to understand. But when you think about it; no drops mean no Astral diamonds. And the constant farming in WoD, and LoL and SoT in mod 4 and 5 leaves little room for other ways to get Astra diamonds from exept professions.
If we dont get the drops, we will have to buy our artifacts on AH. And the lucky players are sitting on millions of cash and get fully geared, while the others, who are really committed to the game will move along slowly, saving up for belts and cloak, then save up again for enchants ect.
This is things I have spoken to a lot of players about. I know people who have played this game for close to two years, and then they befriend a person who have played for 2 months, and that player have 5 legendary artifacts and everything he wants from constant drops, while the 2 year-player are far from it cause of no luck.
Here the Zen comes in ofcourse. Sure you can buy your happyness, but not everyone have that privilige. And lets face it, thats not a reward either. And a few I have talked to have explained to me i detail that they have no interest in spending real money in a game that dont give anything in return.
Sure, you may say this is petty, but in the end of it all, this is how a lot of players feel, me included, and with a little bit of empathy you should understand that. And when this goes on for month after month with no reward-system in place, they will move on. I have seen that happen and I will see it again. Is that how Dev`s wanted this to go down?
And sure, you may say that its all about luck. But how can this be only about luck when some accounts are lucky 8 times a day and others never catches a break in 5 months? It does not add up.
And like one said: Some mmo`s have Dev`s with angelwings spreading the loot... I am aware, but - I dont see that being the case in this game, but if it were so, then they really should try to distribute a bit more random, id say.
Games - a lot of work and hours = Reward = gear = happyness = continue the game.
Games - a lot of work and hour - no reward - no gear - miserable = quit the game and find another.
Just the logic of the human mind of us gamers out there.
Hundreds of dragons in Mod4, hundreds of runs of eSoT, and not a single belt nor boon ever dropped for me. I eventually quit Mod4 to wait for Mod5.
More than 170 dragons in Mod5, nothing worth mentioning has dropped. I've given up on dragon farming and am now focusing on saving up Glory for the Drow armor set, whenever that will come out.
Yet, some of us farm day in and day out, and yet, no drops? Yes the droprate has increased a lot. Just not for a lot of us.
The thin person, thinking "Well, if I eat like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and don't work out and I have no issues staying thin, wow, that heavy person over there must eat a LOT and can't possibly be doing anything healthy", tells the overweight person "Well you know, all you have to do is eat a little less and be a little healthier and you can look like ME!".
The "thin" person is comparable to people here who have the RNG's favor here. They think "Well, I get 2-3 belt drops a day after a couple hours, so those who complaining obviously just need to try harder." The "overweight" people in this game are those who have never seen any artifact drop, and wonder "Why can I farm all day and see absolutely nothing, when others seem to have belts raining from the sky".
Anyways, I believe RNG is a poor way to provide "content" by making people run things over and over. Drop some sort of token that can be collected and turned in for a drop after you have accumulated enough. There should ALWAYS be an end to the grind.
For example, each dragon drops a token, and it takes 1500 tokens to get any belt you want. That is a lot of dragons and most people will get the belt they want before killing 1500...but AT LEAST you know that after 1500, you'll get what you want. Right now, you might do 10, you might do 10000...you have no idea because you can't make "progress", you can just re-roll the dice again.
I also believe the RNG thing is like the "Jedi" thing in SWG. Some people needed to roll 5 professions, others 25 - all the luck of the draw when your character was made. Wouldn't surprise me if we all have a hidden luck stat that determines your rolls. Also wouldnt surprise me if it gets stuck....
It should be removed.
I've been farming heavily over the last 8 weeks. While other folks have been getting 3-4 artifacts a day, I get 0.
The typical cop out response is that it's just RNG. Well, there is more to RNG than just the roll itself, and without a look under the hood there is no way to say it's due to bugs or just plain bad luck. Anyone familiar with the Wi Flag bug in Asheron's call? Went on for a LONG LONG time before they finally debugged it and found that it truly wasn't random.
http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Wi_Flag
eLoL 80+ times, not sure how many Heralds. Quite a few. Never gotten an artifact drop myself.
Considering how long it takes to grind a legendary in Borderlands I'm pretty familiar with having to run something 200+ times to get your gear. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what the case is but I do agree with the general consensus. I have friends who seem to get artifacts galore and only farmed 2x as much as I have, some a lot less. They made millions off it easy. Then again, some (like me) can farm things forever and never get a single drop.
One guildie did eLoL 300 or so times and has yet to see any artifact drop, and yet another did it far less and has gotten: 3 books and 6 belts. He did do it on different chars though, maybe that's the trick.
They may have improved the drop rates, just not by very freaking much... (enough to affect the prices, but not enough to affect the chances of you getting a drop).
If you wanna be lucky, it takes persistence, but with the amount I've shown, it's pretty clear this is what's meant for me...
Although token system added for Tiamat is an improvement, it would be great if this type of stuff was retroactively applied to all sections of the game.
Imagine if there was a Black Ice Token Vendor in IWD, where you could get the arms or weapon for 100-1000 HE runs.
Dread Vault Vendor to buy the drops from VT, Sharandar Vendor to buy all drops from MC, etc.
Drake Vendor update to buy T1, T2, using 100-200 seals etc.
This would at least give players a known amount of grind necessary instead of the less than 1% chance to ever get anything you might have wanted.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I wonder if that'd be true or not. I wonder how many people would be put off trying if they had an visible value assigned to their chance. Perhaps the desirability of the item would over-ride that.