1. If you use Takedown in while in town the skill refreshing almost instantly (2 sec. cooldown) (bug). Significant reduction of cooldown from I think from 12 seconds down to 8 (I have Relentless Battle Fury). <- this will make people QQ as you can almost stunlock them with Flourish + Takedown and coup de grace with IWS. The biggest change is the reach. It has a bigger reach now when you execute the skill at around 13" yards (like range of Flourish).
Thats not a bug lol. Have you ever read the tooltip or used it on live?
Let me write it down for you :
Smash into your foe with your hilt, knocking your target Prone.If you fail to hit, the cooldown is reduced.
Rank 2
Damage :10%
Cooldown on miss :-25%
Rank 3
Damage :10%
Cooldown on miss: -25%
Thats not a bug lol. Have you ever read the tooltip or used it on live?
Let me write it down for you :
Smash into your foe with your hilt, knocking your target Prone.If you fail to hit, the cooldown is reduced.
Rank 2
Damage :10%
Cooldown on miss :-25%
Rank 3
Damage :10%
Cooldown on miss: -25%
Cool.. if it failed to hit.. the cooldown is now 2 seconds instead of 8 seconds.
Cool.. if it failed to hit.. the cooldown is now 2 seconds instead of 8 seconds.
IF it fails to hit in live for me it takes 3 seconds to recharge. And thats without the cd reduction from patch or Relentless Battle Fury. When you said "If you use Takedown while in town" ,it means you don't hit something, thus it fails to hit. Now if you wanted to say "I used it on target dummy and even if it landed i got 2sec cooldown" , then it is a bug indeed.
Edit :I did the testing, and it is working as intended.
Spinning strike is now immune to CC but still does ****ty damage. It does I think 6 ticks of around 600-800 dmg. Still pretty luckluster at least you're immune to CC now.
0
destroxoxoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
What I would of liked to see in this patch was an Upgrade to the Destroyers last tier Skill, it really needs an increase in Determination to Damage done buffed, as it is near on useless.
Just got off the test server after playing around for around 10-15 minutes. Can't do much testing yet since they didn't give out any free respec and i'm freshly out of cash (AD). You can't use the cash shop either.
Found a few bugs:
1. If you use Takedown in while in town the skill refreshing almost instantly (2 sec. cooldown) (bug). Significant reduction of cooldown from I think from 12 seconds down to 8 (I have Relentless Battle Fury). <- this will make people QQ as you can almost stunlock them with Flourish + Takedown and coup de grace with IWS. The biggest change is the reach. It has a bigger reach now when you execute the skill at around 13" yards (like range of Flourish).
2. Sure strike does 20% more damage now..I kinda doubt people will use it often except in PvP situations. TBH ... 20% more damage might not be even enough. Since it's a single target skill I think 50% more damage is a more acceptable trade off.
3. Wicked Strike is now a must have. And is clearly superior to Sure Strike. And it's an AOE skill.
4. Not So Fast - Very good for pvp and party CC. Better damage.
5. I think they fixed a bug in Steadfast Determination so it now properly gives you more Determination.
Sure Strike – 92 apm, every fourth hit does 200% damage
598 base, 1196 every 4th hit = 41,262 + 27,508 = 68,770 dmg per minute
Weapon Master Strike – 42 apm x 2
460 base = 38,640 dmg per minute
Wicked Strike – 60 apm, every third hit does 160% damage
661 base, 1058 every 3rd hit = 26,440 + 21,160 = 47,600 dmg per minute
WS will only work with Instigator. SS is superior for both Destroyer and Instigator.....WHY? Because trash and minion level mobs don't matter, they go down quick enough with Slam and WMS. Where Sure Strike is needed and required is on bosses and tough level master mobs.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
I very much agree with the "dev's are lost" aspect.
As our abilities are very much stat-based for ratios after our weapon damage value; we really have to look at how our synchronization works. Essentially, our actual aoe is deriving from our Daily known as "Slam." All our other AoE's aren't particularly AoEish from a damage perspective.
Instead of having our feat trees providing our group buffs; we get them from our specific ability trees. What this means is that in order to generate a sustained damage output, we required additional damage modifiers for our group buffs. ie. our Determination and damage bonuses for spiking our damage. (which turns out to be sub-par.) Now don't get me wrong, It's a neat idea, but it can't provide the benefits of a striker regime on account that our cc is counter-intuitive of their relative functions. We get our lovely conal ability to reduce damage; we get our meh damage with a stun and then we have our group them up ability. Only 2 of our 3 cc effects of this nature sync with each other; Roar with either, but not CoGi with Daring. Our 3rd main cc can compliment either of these two sets.
Without our feats setup, our cc specialty build becomes subpar. In order to use these feats, we don't get enough paragon points to get a capstone in either instigator or the Sentinel tree. (if I recall right. 28 points to get both feats leveled, which leaves us 8 pts. shy of getting a capstone in either tree.)
Now our only true "feated group buff" is our defense tree. This is kind of similar to how other trees I've looked at. Normally we can only get one kind of group buff from only one kind of class. That is still on par with other classes. (yay! we are the same in one aspect!)
One of the key aspect of a GWF is it's determination and AP generation. As with other classes, we have abilities which increase our gains. Unlike every other class except Rogue, we do not have a Stat that provides a natural gain percentage to our AP. What this means is that for areas that we use dailies at quite often, there is only 1 way for which we can actually increase it's gain. That folks, is that one stat that has been nerfed. Recovery plain and simple. What this means is that fast AP generation is now solely dependent on having a shout rotation or by hitting something for such a huge amount of damage that you might as well pretend that you are a rogue. (we can even go invis once an hour if you do the quest line up in the caverns, just a fyi.)
It's very much one of the most overlooked values for a GWF in the game, due that we peg our DPS from a per second value instead of a per total use of all abilities cycle. Excluding our dailies, what this means is that when specced for Recovery to ArP conversion and fast encounter rotation, we could get some higher then expected gains for our single target and low-quantity target encounters when we start to max other values. Given that Destroyer could rotate 3 encounters 25% faster, and then have a speed modifier; this provided a relationship that you could rotate our one and only large hit 6 times for every 5 of any other spec. (without using savage advance.) Given a crit of 10k every hit, Everyone's T5 cycle would average 1000dps without recovery, whereas somebody specced into recovery would garner approx. 1200 from it, in addition to the difference in ArP conversion. GWF's having no AP gain in their stats, this also provided a fairly large increase in AP gathering.
With the change in our attack speeds, Recovery has now become so very much less useful as the cycle differences have become so very much smaller. In general, I'd say the Destroyer speed bonus is still worth it, but any recovery outside of this wouldn't increase cycle counts to the point that you could see such an evident increase in damage.
I go about my data gathering differently. My test characters names' are up in their late teen's now, but no worries... I make sure to get rid of them. GF get's their AP bonus from Con, Clerics' get theirs from Wisdom, Wizards Get's theirs from Int, and so on. Their special ability comes from a main stat point. PS: Cleric generation bonuses is geared like our determination value. In lieu of generation from damage/getting killed, they get damage/heal values.
Rogues have a unique stat point of their own. It's an increase in Deflection severity that is found in Charisma.
GWF? We get "resistance ignored." That's our constitution folks. We have less chance to resist our negative effects that we apply to people. What effects are those? A stun, it never fails if you hit them. (bosses excluded.) Our Slam ability... and our little twisty-crouchy-move that people seem to like now. (ps: Just a heads up, but reaping followed by that ability has a pretty good animation value that won't hang up/glitch and slow you down. It's so very much a "here... kitty kitty." gotcha moment.)
The Good: Destroyer capstone damage value has become Godly. As our encounter rotations have increased without any effort of our own, the destoyer capstone of getting AP/determination has just improved dramatically.
Sentinel skill sets have now become semi-viable to take in order to get it's capstone. One of the absolutely main reasons why I didn't choose to try sentinel class at all is that the only "good" abilities that can synchronize well as a 3-set were SoTs and the capstone. That left "15" points that weren't of any use from a hybrid perspective. (tanking was nice.) The change in recovery places a slightly better boost to our power value and in that regard, our power conversion values get touted up have a notch. Mr. Spinny Daily has evolved as the Goto generator of tastiness, in that it will allow GWF's of all colors to stand in red circles so that they can generate the AP we loose from not grabbing that ability they made even less relevant. Due to the feat system, this allows the Sentinel tree to ah... "Benefit" from their 5 pt. system that provides a bonus to shouting at things; which in turn provides functionality-swapping of 2 shouts and one strike. Again, if we had another 10 or so feats, this would provide a situation where we can guarantee a dual-group buff system, which would make our threat generation useful for something other then killing the GWF. Instead, Instigators are the ones' that are allowed to provide Combat Advantage to bonuses to everything they hit.
In summary:
GWF SLOGAN: We can't sync ourselves, though we very will shall send our companions along for the trip.
PS: Currently, the human 3 feats is now sub-par for GWFS! OMG!
0
destroxoxoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
EDIT: 10 Chars
0
ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I personally just want to see a damage to at-wills all around... they buffed SS and WS, but didn't touch reaping strike and WMS. Kind of a HAMSTER off to the destroyer tree..
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destroxoxoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Sure Strike is still completely useless unless you're Sentinel spec and you're trying to gain threat on 1 target.
It's horrible because there is never a situation where we need it, name one dungeon where you're single targeting during boss fights.. exactly.
Ok, because as far as I am aware, WMS buffs at-will only damage. Mitigation from Stayin Power shouldn't affect it? Haven't test this, or lost to translation though. If you have Come and Get It, Darting Shout (for Powerfull Challenge mark), would like to hear a combination of those (Come and Get it is for 1 attack only)
Ok, because as far as I am aware, WMS buffs at-will only damage. Mitigation from Stayin Power shouldn't affect it? Haven't test this, or lost to translation though. If you have Come and Get It, Darting Shout (for Powerfull Challenge mark), would like to hear a combination of those (Come and Get it is for 1 attack only)
If you have the Staying Power feat from Destroyer WMS it also reduces Migitation from your encounter powers by 10%.
If you have the Staying Power feat from Destroyer WMS it also reduces Migitation from your encounter powers by 10%.
Yeah thats what I meant. Mitigation should not be translated in +dmg, I thought it was the ratio the target looses its hp.For example, when you hit something, there is a white bar that reduces after some miliseconds.Thats I thought what mitigation is, so this talent would made the white bar move faster from encounter hits. If not I am lost in translation (haven't even bothered to test it too)
They have put invisible walls on almost every roof. You can still use it to not get falling damage, but not that important that exporing all those areas
Can mobs still get cliff-pushed by KB? Interesting...
Don't know, havent queued in any instance. To me it was more important to check if I can get on places I couldn't with old Leap.Apparently I wont be even able to be either on previous ones
That's already what I do, so yes I do agree with you. Other than Powerful Challenge, that is, as Marks are virtually useless since they fall of when being hit. When taking into account the massive AoE in T2, they are really not worth it.
The marks are for Snap Agro.
Tested a Sentinel Build on the Test server with 3 of my other Guildies. Control Wizard, Me as GWF, TR and Cleric. I was able to snap agro off the cleric or Wizard within seconds (barring they use Battlewise feat for CW and Soothe Feature for Cleric). My job as an Off-Tank Add support is what the Devs intended our role in this patch. IMO if you're not taking 1 of every class you will have a much harder time. In other words Working as Intended.
It makes me upset that my preferred role (DPS) in PvE is still pointless but at least I now know my intended role will get me grous and will help make my Cleric and Wizard friends much better at their roles.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
Comments
Thats not a bug lol. Have you ever read the tooltip or used it on live?
Let me write it down for you :
Smash into your foe with your hilt, knocking your target Prone.If you fail to hit, the cooldown is reduced.
Rank 2
Damage :10%
Cooldown on miss :-25%
Rank 3
Damage :10%
Cooldown on miss: -25%
Just confirmed that. It is indeed still bugged.
Cool.. if it failed to hit.. the cooldown is now 2 seconds instead of 8 seconds.
IF it fails to hit in live for me it takes 3 seconds to recharge. And thats without the cd reduction from patch or Relentless Battle Fury. When you said "If you use Takedown while in town" ,it means you don't hit something, thus it fails to hit. Now if you wanted to say "I used it on target dummy and even if it landed i got 2sec cooldown" , then it is a bug indeed.
Edit :I did the testing, and it is working as intended.
Sure Strike – 92 apm, every fourth hit does 200% damage
598 base, 1196 every 4th hit = 41,262 + 27,508 = 68,770 dmg per minute
Weapon Master Strike – 42 apm x 2
460 base = 38,640 dmg per minute
Wicked Strike – 60 apm, every third hit does 160% damage
661 base, 1058 every 3rd hit = 26,440 + 21,160 = 47,600 dmg per minute
WS will only work with Instigator. SS is superior for both Destroyer and Instigator.....WHY? Because trash and minion level mobs don't matter, they go down quick enough with Slam and WMS. Where Sure Strike is needed and required is on bosses and tough level master mobs.
Character is what a man is in the dark
As our abilities are very much stat-based for ratios after our weapon damage value; we really have to look at how our synchronization works. Essentially, our actual aoe is deriving from our Daily known as "Slam." All our other AoE's aren't particularly AoEish from a damage perspective.
Instead of having our feat trees providing our group buffs; we get them from our specific ability trees. What this means is that in order to generate a sustained damage output, we required additional damage modifiers for our group buffs. ie. our Determination and damage bonuses for spiking our damage. (which turns out to be sub-par.) Now don't get me wrong, It's a neat idea, but it can't provide the benefits of a striker regime on account that our cc is counter-intuitive of their relative functions. We get our lovely conal ability to reduce damage; we get our meh damage with a stun and then we have our group them up ability. Only 2 of our 3 cc effects of this nature sync with each other; Roar with either, but not CoGi with Daring. Our 3rd main cc can compliment either of these two sets.
Without our feats setup, our cc specialty build becomes subpar. In order to use these feats, we don't get enough paragon points to get a capstone in either instigator or the Sentinel tree. (if I recall right. 28 points to get both feats leveled, which leaves us 8 pts. shy of getting a capstone in either tree.)
Now our only true "feated group buff" is our defense tree. This is kind of similar to how other trees I've looked at. Normally we can only get one kind of group buff from only one kind of class. That is still on par with other classes. (yay! we are the same in one aspect!)
One of the key aspect of a GWF is it's determination and AP generation. As with other classes, we have abilities which increase our gains. Unlike every other class except Rogue, we do not have a Stat that provides a natural gain percentage to our AP. What this means is that for areas that we use dailies at quite often, there is only 1 way for which we can actually increase it's gain. That folks, is that one stat that has been nerfed. Recovery plain and simple. What this means is that fast AP generation is now solely dependent on having a shout rotation or by hitting something for such a huge amount of damage that you might as well pretend that you are a rogue. (we can even go invis once an hour if you do the quest line up in the caverns, just a fyi.)
It's very much one of the most overlooked values for a GWF in the game, due that we peg our DPS from a per second value instead of a per total use of all abilities cycle. Excluding our dailies, what this means is that when specced for Recovery to ArP conversion and fast encounter rotation, we could get some higher then expected gains for our single target and low-quantity target encounters when we start to max other values. Given that Destroyer could rotate 3 encounters 25% faster, and then have a speed modifier; this provided a relationship that you could rotate our one and only large hit 6 times for every 5 of any other spec. (without using savage advance.) Given a crit of 10k every hit, Everyone's T5 cycle would average 1000dps without recovery, whereas somebody specced into recovery would garner approx. 1200 from it, in addition to the difference in ArP conversion. GWF's having no AP gain in their stats, this also provided a fairly large increase in AP gathering.
With the change in our attack speeds, Recovery has now become so very much less useful as the cycle differences have become so very much smaller. In general, I'd say the Destroyer speed bonus is still worth it, but any recovery outside of this wouldn't increase cycle counts to the point that you could see such an evident increase in damage.
I go about my data gathering differently. My test characters names' are up in their late teen's now, but no worries... I make sure to get rid of them. GF get's their AP bonus from Con, Clerics' get theirs from Wisdom, Wizards Get's theirs from Int, and so on. Their special ability comes from a main stat point. PS: Cleric generation bonuses is geared like our determination value. In lieu of generation from damage/getting killed, they get damage/heal values.
Rogues have a unique stat point of their own. It's an increase in Deflection severity that is found in Charisma.
GWF? We get "resistance ignored." That's our constitution folks. We have less chance to resist our negative effects that we apply to people. What effects are those? A stun, it never fails if you hit them. (bosses excluded.) Our Slam ability... and our little twisty-crouchy-move that people seem to like now. (ps: Just a heads up, but reaping followed by that ability has a pretty good animation value that won't hang up/glitch and slow you down. It's so very much a "here... kitty kitty." gotcha moment.)
The Good: Destroyer capstone damage value has become Godly. As our encounter rotations have increased without any effort of our own, the destoyer capstone of getting AP/determination has just improved dramatically.
Sentinel skill sets have now become semi-viable to take in order to get it's capstone. One of the absolutely main reasons why I didn't choose to try sentinel class at all is that the only "good" abilities that can synchronize well as a 3-set were SoTs and the capstone. That left "15" points that weren't of any use from a hybrid perspective. (tanking was nice.) The change in recovery places a slightly better boost to our power value and in that regard, our power conversion values get touted up have a notch. Mr. Spinny Daily has evolved as the Goto generator of tastiness, in that it will allow GWF's of all colors to stand in red circles so that they can generate the AP we loose from not grabbing that ability they made even less relevant. Due to the feat system, this allows the Sentinel tree to ah... "Benefit" from their 5 pt. system that provides a bonus to shouting at things; which in turn provides functionality-swapping of 2 shouts and one strike. Again, if we had another 10 or so feats, this would provide a situation where we can guarantee a dual-group buff system, which would make our threat generation useful for something other then killing the GWF. Instead, Instigators are the ones' that are allowed to provide Combat Advantage to bonuses to everything they hit.
In summary:
GWF SLOGAN: We can't sync ourselves, though we very will shall send our companions along for the trip.
PS: Currently, the human 3 feats is now sub-par for GWFS! OMG!
It's horrible because there is never a situation where we need it, name one dungeon where you're single targeting during boss fights.. exactly.
What is IWS? you mean IBS?
If you have the Staying Power feat from Destroyer WMS it also reduces Migitation from your encounter powers by 10%.
Yeah thats what I meant. Mitigation should not be translated in +dmg, I thought it was the ratio the target looses its hp.For example, when you hit something, there is a white bar that reduces after some miliseconds.Thats I thought what mitigation is, so this talent would made the white bar move faster from encounter hits. If not I am lost in translation (haven't even bothered to test it too)
Can you test it again without using WMS ?
EDIT: Also, to those who were happy doing parkour with Mighty Leap, I have some bad news for you
Hahaha.... nice. Does AoS still let us jump down cliffs, I wonder?
I always loved blocking falling damage with my GF. :P
Can mobs still get cliff-pushed by KB? Interesting...
Just use mighty leap before you hit the ground.
Don't know, havent queued in any instance. To me it was more important to check if I can get on places I couldn't with old Leap.Apparently I wont be even able to be either on previous ones
Definitely there's an improvement with WMS (with Staying Power) ... it's kinda hard to tell ... the difference is around 10% I think.
Its a pity, I have drake greatsword to test it, but not zed/ad to respec atm.
The marks are for Snap Agro.
Tested a Sentinel Build on the Test server with 3 of my other Guildies. Control Wizard, Me as GWF, TR and Cleric. I was able to snap agro off the cleric or Wizard within seconds (barring they use Battlewise feat for CW and Soothe Feature for Cleric). My job as an Off-Tank Add support is what the Devs intended our role in this patch. IMO if you're not taking 1 of every class you will have a much harder time. In other words Working as Intended.
It makes me upset that my preferred role (DPS) in PvE is still pointless but at least I now know my intended role will get me grous and will help make my Cleric and Wizard friends much better at their roles.
Character is what a man is in the dark