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GWF need an upgrade
berzerker75
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
This is incredibly unfair, very time I get in a random que for the Delves, I a kicked automatically because of how GWF are seen as the weakest of DPS classes, and now the only **** way i can even get a group and keep it now at my lvl and GS seems to be tha I am going to HAVE to find a guild, ARGH!! so **** unfair!!
Post edited by berzerker75 on
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Class balancing is coming.
Last time they "balanced" GWF it got nerfed to hell. Then after weeks of metrics, they stated GWF is exactly where they feel it should be. Although I read the sticky, there are two ways of balancing classes. Each class can be balanced up or down. So if the GWF output is where its expected, then balance could just be to bring everyone else down.
On the other hand, one of the ways they balanced GWF was to remove most of its early mobility, and lower its damage rates. As such, Balance might be to up its defense, which wont help it be a better AoE striker off tank, it'll move it more solidly into the pure tank role.
Another thing is, since details are not released, "balance" could put them even further down, as the top tier GWF might be out preforming everyone else, and as such needs to be retooled to make those players more in line with the vision the devs have.
So while I am hoping for a buff, I won't hold my breath as GWF was one of the only classes pre open beta launch that was flat out said in interviews to be working as intended.
From http://blog.games.com/2013/04/25/neverwinter-interviews-open-beta-launch-interview/
"Zeke Sparkes: The Control Wizard and Great Weapon Fighter saw the biggest changes but opposite direction. Control Wizards did not have enough control in PvE and that was increased but skills stayed the same in PvP to give them a bit of extra damage. He was a bit underpowered.
The Great Weapon Fighter is the other side of the coin and there were a lot of people who were sad we clipped his wings a bit. He was a bit faster than other classes in leveling and power. He can deal a lot of damage to a lot of critters. It was a little too high on the damage side. It got brought back in. This happened before CBW 4. Data coming back was very good. He's back in line with the others. He's still a bit strong."
Seem to always wind up in 3rd place, its getting old.
Innocence or ignorance?
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
i'm not sure if you're being serious or not.i stuck with my gwf because of it's ability to AoE.i don't see them giving gwf excellent single target and AoE dps.
This is a perfect example of how they are completely out of touch with the classes. I am reading this and thinking...are these the same GWF and CWs I am playing in this game? I mean, as it stands, you cant even compare a CW to a GWF. Hec you can actually 4man a T2 with a CW, but NO WAY with a GWF. There is no function/role a GWF can do, that a CW can't perform much better, including AOE dps, which with the current mechanics of trash fights and adds is really secondary to controlling mobs.
I DONT WANT GWFs to get a dps boost. I want them to get something that would make them useful in party. AoE dps is garbage. There is only ONE type of dps that matters and that's single target boss dps. Either give them some unique/useful tools in party or completely revamp the mechanics of all end game dungeons (which really needs to happen regardless of class balance).
Very serious. No need for AOE melee in this game. CW can do all the work near the ledge.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Looks like I turn my GWF into a bank toon or just use for solo farming. Seems kinda pointless to run now.
Being in Instigator build allows GWF to provide Combat Advantage to the group as well as Student of the Sword. Outside of that though, they really don't have much else to buff/support a group and I don't see them giving GWF more support utilities because that's not what the class was designed for. However, if they did decide that that is the role of the GWF and decides to change the GWF accordingly, I can't say I necessarily disagree with it although it would be a bit strange to have a melee being in that role.
In it's current state of the game, GWF doesn't bring very much to the group. Majority of trash in any instance is being knocked off by CW (which I feel is fine) and TR's leave GWF in the dust in terms of single target damage. Now if they decide to make it so that things can't get knocked of ledges anymore, then GWFs may have their role of AoE damage back but I don't feel like that's a good decision as dungeons already last long enough as it is and not allowing enemies to be knocked off ledges will only slow it down by that much more.
Regarding boss fights, boss fights come down to one of two roles.
1.) Deal with adds
2.) DPS the boss
Regarding the first role, the CW does a significantly better job with dealing with adds than anyone and I feel like that's perfectly fine. However, that leaves GWF DPS'ing the boss and it fails miserably at it for multiple reasons:
1.) Their single target damage is a joke in comparison to a TR. I was fighting the last boss in Castle Never earlier tonight and the TR did more than twice my damage with both of us sticking on the boss. I understand if TRs deal more damage on single targets than GWFs but more than twice? That's ridiculous. And it isn't as if TRs are falling that far behind in AoE damage either; if GWFs deal more than twice than TRs in AoE damage, I may find that to be an acceptable compromise.
2.) Determination is built only when damage is taken which is counter-intuitive, furthermore, it doesn't continue to build while in Unstoppable. Even with the Destroyer capstone, it builds so slowly that it's hardly noticeable. Roar and Daring Shout provides a decent chunk of Determination but hardly any damage, so that's hardly a better alternative.
3.) GWFs lack any on-demand invulnerability skill like TR's Impossible to Catch which means that GWFs are unable to stay in there to deal damage. Unstoppable doesn't allow full immunity to all CC effects; they still get knocked around by some bosses/effects.
4.) GWFs lack Daily options to pick from. Slam, our only really viable Daily is AoE which means that if it's being used during a boss fight, adds are going to stick on us which is something we don't want. Our other alternative is Crescendo, however, because if it's long start up/channel and unpredictable teleport (it teleported me on top of the last boss in Castle Never's lightning breath), it is a very poor alternative. Our other Dailies may as well not exist.
They really need to give GWFs something; either a specialized role that they can do better than anyone else and make it meaningful OR increase their single target DPS close to that of TRs.
I wish they would have just made it a Barbarian or added a freakin Avenger.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
Players almost never play a game the way devs intend it to be played. GWFs DO have a role to play, that isn't the problem. The problem is that no one plays the game in such a way that their role is valuable.
"Oh, we've got adds? Shove 'em off a cliff and zerg the boss"
The GWF's AoE damage role just got rendered useless, and he doesn't have enough single target damage to meaningfully contribute to a boss fight.
I know how to fix that problem, but no one will like it: Separate the CWs powers into control OR damage, instead of control AND damage. If their role is crowd control, then strip away some of the high damage on their control powers. Leave them enough damage powers to not gimp them, but make it so their strong control powers don't hit so hard on top of the control.
It's not a matter of GWFs being weak, it's a matter of CWs being overpowered in having both high control AND high damage. They usurp the GWFs role without even really trying.
Don't be surprised if the class balancing turns out to be a massive nerf to wizards and clerics.
That would only make sense if they buffed GWFs AoE damage, otherwise, the damage that would otherwise be dealt by CWs wouldn't be replaced causing an overall slow down of runs and/or tuning of boss fights. If they did further GWF's AoE damage though, that would be more of a reason to bring them, regardless of what they decide to do with CWs. And although we like to focus on end-game content, nerfing CW's damage will most likely adversely affect their leveling experience.
It was a troll.
Oh yes it is. I am re-completing the whole series of quests with a GF and not only you don't die (when in red area you just press shift and wait for the block instead of shift-Z trying to run away and hoping the animation of your previous attack won't kill you), not only is your At-will more powerful but, what I thought was a GWF privilege, your At-will is also multi-target.
The GWF is weak where he is supposed to be weak (evasion, mitigation, survivability, control, heal, range) which would be ok if there was a counterpart in a considerably higher damage dealing. Problem is, GWF is not even delivering as much damage as the other classes. Including the Cleric.
Alternatively, rebalance Reaping Strike to hit 10 or 15 targets given that's how many WS would hit in the same time frame. WMS would have hit 30. You would obviously need to reduce the damage falloff somewhat to account for the extra targets so that your RS doesn't do only 100 damage to each, but it either needs to be competitive in AoE with Wicked Strike or just made into a single-target.
WS should obviously stay on top in AoE performance, but Reaping Strike is in a horrible limbo between AoE and single-target. You could even turn it into something like the final strike of Sure Strike, where it has a tiny, narrow AoE. It needs to make up it's mind though, because as it stands it becomes a lot less useful in heavy add fights which as it turns out is all of T2 and beyond.
The only other change I could think of that would be positive is changing the 25% damage to single-target's from Executioners Style into a 25% bonus to damage versus bosses and lieutenant enemies. That way a single minion wandering into the massive AoE doesn't instantly reduce your damage by 50%.
Five targets is a waste of time in T2 for 3 seconds of charge time.
Just my $0.02.
Actually as a Destroyer it is, and pretty mean at it. RS is a beast, yet its too vulnerable in may situations. Overall the lack of mobility due to no "doge"skill and relatively long "casting-times" for our at wills is part of the problem. Even if we would get a dmg buff we will still die a lot more or have less active dps time compared to a ranged class / or the rogues mobility with teleport.
The main problem however is that system is broken. Every class has a dedicate role to for fill:
tr = singeltarget striker
cw = crowd control
dc = healer
gf = tank
gwf = aoe striker
On paper, this looks good, on the field we all know it doesn't.
CWs can knock stuff off a cliff and while doing cc they do more aoe dmg then a gwf at it.
TRs do superior single-target dps, they tank bosses - like dragons and do roughly okay at aoe.
DC = does heal, can has decent dps, high aggro gain and if you got 2 dcs they can tank and are very good at it
GF = can take damage, has not enough aggro gain to actually tank mobs, especially when they are in groups (basically does no dmg)
GWF = is dedicated to aoe dmg - yet he gets out matched by a cw in therms of dps and usefulness, can tank in certain situations and setups and is not horrible at it.
Overall its not necessarily about dps numbers its about usefulness or at least comparability between the classes.
I completely disagree. Yes CWs make GWFs completely useless in everyway, but it is not because they do a ton of AoE damage. AoE damage is just a side product of controlling adds. Even a properly geared/feated/played GF will do more AoE damage than a GWF while still offering more to the group (and yes, the vast majority of GFs don't know how to play their class because they have it stuck in their head that they are a "Tank").
The problem with GWFs, even if they get a boost to their AoE damage, is that the end game content doesn't create a niche for such a role. You would still rather have an extra CW or a TR instead of a GWF. You'd want to either take down the Boss faster, or have extra singularities and CCs.
In my opinion, there are only TWO ways to fix GWFs, either change the mechanics of end game content so that AoE damage is critical, OR give GWFs tools that would help the party like giving GWFs some sort of passive STAGGER effect on their AoEs, and Shouts that buff the entire party, would be a huge improvement to the class.
I would wait til after this big patch coming up, before you make any decisions.
"A sin is a terrible burden to bare, Remdemption is the only solution."
I hope you are not being serious saying our AoE sucks...I have beaten every CW/TR/GF in Dps. Only time i lose is when our grp do speed CN runs and we knock mobs off but straight dps? No my friend please re-level your character and learn the class again
If the Devs THINK that the GWF is still a BIT strong than they HAVE to believe the rest of the classes are freaking GODS.
The GWF has the lowest DPS and even single target Rogues out dps when there are adds around. The GF a main tank class can out dps us and lets not forget we bring next to NO actual utility to a group.
I love the GWF but playing it is nothing but pain to know no matter how hard I play other classes can do a fraction of the work and still do better than I can.
I really would like to play a GWF instead of a trickster but I cant seem to rationalize the difference in the leveling time. With the damage Tricksters put out they leveling time is alot faster that GWF
I hope this gets fixed.
ps : ESO will proly be awesome
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -