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PVP and balance: A Perspective
demonmonger
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
Please remember that there is no way to balance pvp with people that have an assortment of gears and skills that are at different levels of power and defence.
No matter what is done to so called balance the game, you will always have a player go in that is under geared or over geared into combat and get squashed or dominate all.
Just enjoy the game and stop asking for others to be weakened because you have not found the way to defeat them yet.
If you have 21-25khp and the person you are fighting has 45k-60khp, do not expect to just blow them out of the water.
If you want to ask who is breaking the game, just go look in the mirror.
You are the guilty ones.
I know you want to win. I know you want to dominate everything in your path. But how boring would it be if you always won? Would it even be worth playing?
Many of you also are now complaining that MOD 4 is broken. Did you stop and think that if you were not all complaining about our old balance that the Developers could have done even more amazing things in MOD 4? Did you stop and think that if you guys had helped test on shard server and reported bugs quickly (without constantly crying for nerfs) that you would not be suffering like you are now?
You are causing the downfall of this game.
No matter what is done to so called balance the game, you will always have a player go in that is under geared or over geared into combat and get squashed or dominate all.
Just enjoy the game and stop asking for others to be weakened because you have not found the way to defeat them yet.
If you have 21-25khp and the person you are fighting has 45k-60khp, do not expect to just blow them out of the water.
If you want to ask who is breaking the game, just go look in the mirror.
You are the guilty ones.
I know you want to win. I know you want to dominate everything in your path. But how boring would it be if you always won? Would it even be worth playing?
Many of you also are now complaining that MOD 4 is broken. Did you stop and think that if you were not all complaining about our old balance that the Developers could have done even more amazing things in MOD 4? Did you stop and think that if you guys had helped test on shard server and reported bugs quickly (without constantly crying for nerfs) that you would not be suffering like you are now?
You are causing the downfall of this game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Post edited by demonmonger on
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Comments
+1 to this, those PVP whiners are ruining the game.
Even attempting the above is one of the surest paths to broken overall balance and wrecked PvE balance there is. In fact, I don't know a more reliable way to screw up classes short of actually sitting down at a roundtable discussion with the specific intent of ruining your own game.
People need to get over the "That WonderWizard melted my BowBoy and therefore WonderWizards are OP" mindset. One class will never be balanced against another specific class in a game that isn't an e-sport with 1:1 matches as the default ranking system. Nor should they be.
I can't answer that, but a game with PvP content must never stop trying to improve PvP balance.
Additionally, as the moderator suggested, you need to provided documented evidence of the imbalance, otherwise it is simply whining.
If changes ARE made by the Devs for the sake of PvP, the changes should be made in the PvP events ONLY, not to class as a whole! This part is critical to maintain the PvE portion of the game.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
+1 on that,totally agree that whining is worse than anything.Instead of people asking for their class to be buffed they ask for other classes to be nerfed. I've said it before and I'll say it again : It's like asking for your neighbors house to burn down because you don't own one like it. Instead of working hard to get one like it,or even better,you ask to see it burn.That is mean and evil.
Yes it does, it means exactly that. The PvP balance that matters...in MMOs that are not 1:1 arena based e-sports...is how groups of players are balanced against other groups of players. That is the only balance that matters, that should matter, and that can even be done effectively without eliminating classes and gear altogether so that everyone plays with the same offensive and defensive capabilities.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I completely concur
Ive said it before and will say it again, D&D is really for PWP (players with players cooperating and bringing together the differences in how each power is expressed to aid one another in acquiring gear etc and achieving milestones)
PVP should have their own center of activity completely outside of PVE with PVP gear that satisfies those that want to experience what it is to win based on strategy etc, not gear and the complexity that exists in an environment designed for cooperation.
PVP'ers ....try swordsmen...there youll find perfect boring BALANCE
I still miss those 4 daggers...because 12 is too OP for PVP
And I desperately hope this isn't a GWF starting this who doesn't feel he's got the most epic place in a dungeon group after the mod 4 release. Because when the SW's start getting really geared, dungeon groups are going to consist of 5 SW. There will be no room of CW's, HR's, GF's, DC's, CW's, GWF's... Every SW I've talked to so far is saying: "We're SO getting nerfed lol"...
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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
People spend money on this game so it should be balanced, no one class should be able to beat another.
My friend who is an 18k very strong gwf player tested against my NEW HR char in icewind and I killed him easy, he couldn't touch me and my hr is only 12.5k gs, is that fair ? a guy spends money and time on this game and I can beat him with a char that I have only just got to icewind with, lol ok then.
It is not hard to make classes balanced. Yes they should have differences but one class should not be king of pvp, they should all be equals but require different skills.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
However, the pendulum does swing rather far with each major update.
I have at least one of each class, with similar gear, and the character I elect to PvP with changes with each major release specifically because of new imbalances introduced. Sometimes it is due to a bug (Roar, HR armor set), sometimes just due to major changes in class feats (LOTS of CW's have discovered the virtues of Sudden Storm in PvP since Mod 4).
I would strongly suggest that future changes to class balance be more subtle (smaller corrections), and more frequent. Corrections should be informed by data that only the developers have access to (across all players, which class(es) are substantially out-performing other classes in PvP) in addition to specific, data-backed problems pointed out by the community. Hopefully by the system designers will also spend a fair amount of time themselves in PvP.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
And now...once again...someone calls for PvP balance in a vacuum. Until PvP has an entirely separate stat/skill/armor set from PvE it can't happen like that. Yes, PvE balance is just one variable in the balance equation. It's also the biggest one.
My comment only meant that if the developers were not inundated with all these nerf this nerf that cries then they could focus 100% on mod 4 content stuff without the "adjustments" that the nerf puppies are requesting. It is not that your bug reports were ignored, it is that there are only so many hours in the day, yet 1000000000 complaints about simple problems that can be solved just by switching your daily/encounter skills and learning to play better.
People participating in PVP are playing the game as intended. PVP is in the game, whether in an instance or open world, and is just as much part of the game overall as PVE. Just because you do not like or participate in PVP does not mean that it was not intended for the game.
MMO players expect to win in all cases no matter what.
Blending DnD with MMO nerf puppies will always bring headaches to everyone involved with the games the nerf puppies join.
All it takes is one nerf puppy to start crying, then the normal chill cool collected MMO players get infected with the nerf puppy syndrome.
Pretty soon everyone is crying to have someone nerfed because someone had their class ruined.
It's a sick twisted form of player vs player manipulative payback.
Why can't you nerf puppies be more like Dr Claw and say I'll get you next time Gadget NEXT TIME!!! (laughs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2_cJxYYhM
Think of ways to play better, not ways to destroy the game.
This is all I am asking.
Seperating to 3 different servers is a bad idea for numbers. IF I am in a pvp/pve server than I have now lost 66% of the possible population to play with (given if all servers had the same population). Neverwinter just doesn't have a large enough population for them to be able to do this, which was also one of the reasons they merged all of the original servers into one.
Totally agree with that suggestion.Have separate servers,but i don't see it happening any time soon.
No, it doesn't. In the company I work for there is a saying which is sometimes attributed to its founder (the internet lists it under two different peope). "When you stop trying to improve, you have stopped being good".
The same applies here. The moment a game stops improving the PvP balance the PvP game falls apart.
the keyword being feedback.
providing feedback does not quantify into automatic changes. there may be other internal decisions at play that we're not privy to.
I am not saying for the game to not improve (content wise).
You are trying to say that PVP balance needs to be improved.
I agree that players that pvp need to improve their playing styles.
I disagree that pvp skills need to be constantly reworked for people that fail to utilize current skills properly.
Players need to improve .. end of story.
neverwinter's initial three shards were always meant to be merged. it was not a decision made based on population. this information is in the extended FAQ.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?18401-Neverwinter-Extended-FAQ-Now-with-Feywild-Pack-Info!&p=297631&viewfull=1#post297631
BUT I think there's a problem when 1 class dominates all the others in PVP. That's when I think things need to be balanced out.
But it's still to soon to see things in Mod4 lots of classes got lots of changes and enw builds have to be made to accomodate to these changes. Then we'll know how balanced/unbalanced it is now.