It has to be removed completely. No matter how they want to modify it to be more just, people will always find a way to exploit it. They do want to kick the others, so they will find a way. The only viable and lasting option is to remove the vote kick. And I think it's the easiest for the developers too. You have to admit that it's just not working as intended, at least not with the console community.
Just saw in chat someone looking for more peeps for t2 dungeon so they have the majority. Are u serious?..you guys have essecially got rid of end game for people. if this doesnt get fixed your gonna lose alot of players.
Yesterday I was in a Shores of Tuern skirmish. Just the normal one, not Epic. Everything went well but right after we beat the boss a vote came up to kick one of the guys. I voted No, but the vote succeeded nevertheless. Someone decided to kick someone else no matter how well he helped us beat the whole level. This is utterly disgusting.
Yesterday I was in a Shores of Tuern skirmish. Just the normal one, not Epic. Everything went well but right after we beat the boss a vote came up to kick one of the guys. I voted No, but the vote succeeded nevertheless. Someone decided to kick someone else no matter how well he helped us beat the whole level. This is utterly disgusting.
If we see a vote at the end like that can we just leave it open? Will that give the poor guy/gal a chance to get their loot?
Feedback: It's rather annoying and frustrating that I spent 40+min from the beginning and right when I get to the last boss I get kicked. Literally had no problems pre-last boss and was even reviving all the dead team mates and right at the gate *boom* kicked. Why? cause there is another CW in the group? cause I am not a healer/tank? This is ****ed up and it has happened numerous times. Kick me at the start and I wouldn't really care cause I wouldn't have wasted my time.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Is any dev reading these posts? Do you care about your players we need a statement or acknowledgement something
Yes, they are reading this and other threads all over the forum at various times. Also, yes they do care about their players and have even made statements on Vote Kicking in the past, especially on the PC side of things. They've stated numerous times that they are continually monitoring and working to make a solution.
Here is one of their latest replies on the Vote Kick issue from this very thread, others can be found through out past threads and in live streams.
Jumping in here quickly to say that we know the vote kicking situation needs some work. Our team is looking into it to see what we can do, but creating a solution will take some time. We appreciate the patience as we work through this.
As a suggestion, we do have a forum sub-section that can be used to exchange gamertags and party up with others to tackle these dungeons and skirmishes. We'd recommend finding a like-minded group there to dig into the content together.
Thanks for the continued feedback. Our team is reading through these forums to find ways to better your experience.
Best,
Alex
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
[ RoC | ToS | Support ]
Yes, they are reading this and other threads all over the forum at various times. Also, yes they do care about their players and have even made statements on Vote Kicking in the past, especially on the PC side of things. They've stated numerous times that they are continually monitoring and working to make a solution.
Here is one of their latest replies on the Vote Kick issue from this very thread, others can be found through out past threads and in live streams.Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
[ RoC | ToS | Support ]
You should be quicker, there are not many online games that allow such prolific exploiting in their games without taking some action. The fact you take no action so far is very disappointing and makes your statement seem untrue, how can you be monitoring for this length of time but do nothing on such a massively widespread exploit.
0
oflowzMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2015
I agree that there needs to be a change in the votekick system. I understand there needs to be a votekick because sometimes people disconnect or are causing disruptive behavior. I play on Xbox One and have started farming my tier 1 set and I notice vote kicks *all* the time. I play a healer so I usually never have trouble finding groups. The vote kicks I normally see are initiated by people to get other players that might want 'their' gear kicked from the group.
But heres the scenario I encountered last night that really kinda pissed me off.
I ran Epic Throne of Idris, got all the way to the end and killed the final boss. The boss dropped an epic neck and a piece I couldnt use. I needed the neck because it was an upgrade for me. Some other guy in the group gets mad that I win the roll so he gets his friends to initiate a vote kick before I can loot the chest at the end of the dungeon. I basically run to the chest open it and I see the tier 1 chest pop up my screen. I was pretty happy because thats the item I really wanted anyway. But before I could loot the chest I basically get removed from the group with a vote kick.
The frustrating part is it used my epic dungeon key and I wasnt able to get my chest item. It basically happened because some guy was mad I won a roll earlier in the dungeon and got 'his' loot, so he got his guildmates in the party to vote kick me AFTER the final boss was already dead.
If you are going to fix anything at least make it so you cant be vote kicked after the final boss of a dungeon has been killed. That was just plain wrong and pretty rude.
I play a healer, and recently I've noticed the game putting me in groups that already have a cleric healing. It's rather annoying because I know there are groups out there without a healer, but no, I have to endure countless vote kicks because people don't realize that clerics can also provide some massive damage buffs and various enemy debuffs while another cleric heals. I guess this game's meta just isn't setup for buffing and debuffing, so people aren't used to it.
We are all surely sick to the bone of being kicked for no reason, and even more so when you know somethings dropped..
Currently we can only 5 man dungeon, we aren't able to solo or progress by ourselves without someone joining.
How can we fix this?
- Have a set role finding system.
For instance 3 dps, 1 healer, 1 tank.
( you'd have to be able to select which roles you can que for cos certain classes can dps or tank/heal)
- Not allow the ability to kick if a person is pulling there wweight.
( active, and doing wat should be doing)
- A kick needs a real reasoN
- Kicks can only be initiated every so often often. And abuse can lead to a ban on queuing.
- A "goodwill" system were each player has a reputation.
And certain groups can look for players in that reputation range.
All other ideas are welcome.
Let's make this game better for everyone else to play!!!
I dunno the whole vote kicking in this game plus the ridiculously low drop rates of items and the incessant grind every day to try and achieve stuff plus the ridiculous cost of 750,000 diamonds to upgrade a blue companion to purple JUST RIDICULOUS and the enchantment upgrade sytem is just too costly . you either have to grind every day of your life for hours and then this game becomes a job lol or you have to spend a lot of dough. I think I am done its time for a new game. too grindy and to much vote kicking has destroyed this game.
I like the reputation bit, maybe even just show how many times they have started a voted to kick and agreed to a kick, this way people could decide if they want to take a chance with high kick rate player and if not KICK THEM!
Ok sometimes you will need to kick but aslong as you are not kicking all the time your kick rate will be low!
I like the idea of a reputation system in theory, but ask yourself this - xbox profiles used to have a rep system. How many times did give someone bad rep for something you felt they did that pissed you off? Fair enough. But how many times did you actually bother to give someone good rep? I'd wager it was hardly ever. I never remember to do it, because I probably rarely remembered to look up who it was that helped make the experience a good one. Maybe just me, but I'd wager many were the same. We were more likely to get said people into a party and maybe friend request, but I never even remembered to give my friends positive rep. Just sayin.
A lot of what you ask for OP could be hard to quantify, therefore hard to program. How can the Devs possibly program something to determine whether you are "pulling your weight" or "playing as intended" for example? It's a great idea, just not practical I'm afraid. S
Some of the other suggestions, such as a required reason (perhaps a drop down menu that has to be chosen and that also informs kicked player as to why) and restrictions on how often kicks can happen most surely should be implemented.
I prefer my idea letting people know how often someone in a group kicks as it gives the players an option whether to risk it with them or not, it also punishes constant kickers as no one would want to group up with them. Surely its cant be hard to code in a rating of how much you kick?
We had a role system. But too many people complained about queues taking too long. Now they don't take nearly as long. but if you're not a DC/Tank you're likely to get kicked if you don't have one in your party.
I prefer my idea letting people know how often someone in a group kicks as it gives the players an option whether to risk it with them or not, it also punishes constant kickers as no one would want to group up with them. Surely its cant be hard to code in a rating of how much you kick?
I'm with this idea. The only reason I kick is if someone DC'd and doesn't come back after a few minutes. But make it for the group though, not individuals.
I'm a healing DC. Just completed an epic Caverns of Karrundax. I jumped in near the middle as the group was disbanding -- 3 slots opened up, 3 people joined, and kicked the other DPS. Another joined. We completed the dungeon without issue. Killed the last boss, and while cleaning up the residual adds -- the wave of vote kicks happened. I had noticed earlier, but didn't think of it, 3 players were from the same guild. So, once all the "hard work" was completed, they kicked everyone who wasn't in their guild. Since adds were still up -- couldn't loot the chest. So, I essentially wasted about an hour of my time with nothing to show for it. The fear of kicking shouldn't even exist after the final boss has been defeated.
Why are you even allowed to kick after the final boss has been defeated? It would simply take a relatively small chunk of code to tie in disabling the kicking system if loot chest has "spawned."
And, for the overall kicking problem -- while I don't always like to relate things in terms of WoW, they redesigned a lot in terms of "bring the player, not the class." As it stands now -- it is bring the class, but not exactly more than 1 of said class. You could further alter the queuing system by allowing the selection of a healer/tank/dps role. This queue and kicking system is extremely outdated, and can be downright frustrating.
I prefer my idea letting people know how often someone in a group kicks as it gives the players an option whether to risk it with them or not, it also punishes constant kickers as no one would want to group up with them. Surely its cant be hard to code in a rating of how much you kick?
No that particular idea doesn't seem like it should be hard to implement. I've seen similar ratings in sports games regarding how likely a person is to disconnect from a match, and they have been helpful in determining whether to bother or not since you couldn't get credit for a win unless your opponent played the match out. It won't always tell the whole story, but repeat offenders will at least be easier to spot.
what I mean with the "pulling there weight" is possibly having calculators in the game you can access at any point in time or at every camp spot.
The calculations that are shown at the end of each dungeon currently such as damage and heals.
ADDITIONALLY, a possible leaderboard were it shows what a player normally pulls in a certain dungeon.
For example of a player averages out 15m damage per run, people wouldn't kick Him/her.
But if he/she is averaging 5-6m you can do the calculations in your head that this guy's a 16k GS Rouge, yet this dudes a slacker.
It is difficult for me to explain it in english, but I try to do the best.
I think that the best way to let the party kick a player or not is to refer to the "classification of the players" at that time. The designers of the game have a lot of data to manage to do it well. I try to do an example that could be studied, depth and perfected.
For example if I could decide, I would do this:
1) If a player is first, second or third in the (damage OR damage obtained OR cure) AND he is not immobilized from art least 45 seconds, he can not be kicked.
2) If a player is disconnected for more than 2 minutes, he is automatically kicked out
3) If there is a Drop in a boss area, a player can not be kicked untill the drop has been attribuited.
and so on .... going in depth. I think it is the right way.
Well it seems like being near elections, we are the opposition that want the kicking system fixed and the majority(not really) are so eager to show us that we're wrong! In the end the world is full of backstabbers, I don't expect nth else of them!
Simple solution here disable the vote kicking system totally until a better system can be worked out because something needs to be done now this cheating and loot and booting must end or this game will be a lost cause and memory in most of our minds.
The problem isnt the kicking option, it is the stupid greedy childs who is the problem.just dont kick people at 1% of boss fight...if u think the group is not gonna make it, kick at the beginnig of the dungeon so people dont lose their time. And if you could only enter a dungeon with a tank a healer and 3 dps it would make us save time because i often join a group that as already another tank and get kicked again and again.And if you end up with 1 tank and 4 dps then you kick the lowest GS dps and wait for a healer to show up, so you kick about 5 dps in a row before you actually get a healer. I know you dont always need a healer or a tank but if they could implant that a group is only made out of 1 tank 1 healer and 3 dps it would save us time.
There are many reasons people "need to kick" it seems, of which I am sure there is a fair population of folks who don't agree with the need to kick.
I see people calling low GS dps. But what indication do they have in game on the damage these folks have done? (I haven't seen anything beyond the last score board but I could be missing something.)
Not the right class balance. This is equally rubbish, if a group has got through all the encounters to a point, then class balance is irrelevant surely.
Need a healer/tank. I have done plenty of epics successfully without either of those, and just as much with them.
Overall this game is great because it doesn't conform 100% to the holy trinity of Tank/Heal/Damage, and that is refreshing (except when you tanking as a TR) something that should be embraced.
There are a couple of solutions that should be considered:
1) Limit the number of V2K a character/account can initiate.
2) if a Player is V2K'd, allow them a feedback response to mods, if they feel it is unfair, then perhaps the initiator's V2K option is blocked for X dungeons/days.
3)Increase the number of votes required, perhaps making it 4? If the party is smaller than 5 V2K can't be initiated.
It also goes without saying that characters should not be kicked during boss fights nor for a minute post the fight to allow loot.
I don't know if it's been said before, but if they had some kind of team generator with filters like they do the auction house...
Looking for:
Slot 1: (YOU) as X class
Slot 2: CW
Slot 3: GF
Slot 4: TR
Slot 5: DC
Dungeon or Skirmish Name:
Specify level, hell, maybe even down to the Paragon path, if that means so much to you. Then alternately, people who just want to join "queues" will be put in a pool. The pool matches viable community members to your requested queues/missions, and you'll be given an option to move on after X minutes after if you're still short a person. People in the queue pool can maybe choose from a set of 3-5 missions/skirms they want to do. Obviously, remove the kick option. Probably needs a lot more refining and background programming magic to make it work reliably, but these kick horror stories are really getting me down. I'm amazed that the people who have all the rules don't already have guilds so they can take themselves and their friends onto runs that are perfectly controlled with members you've played with, and who probably don't mind using the alt character class you really want in your party. And if you're in guilds, why are you still picking up randoms and kicking them for not being what you want when you have an entire team of players and their alts to request help from?
Comments
If we see a vote at the end like that can we just leave it open? Will that give the poor guy/gal a chance to get their loot?
Yes, they are reading this and other threads all over the forum at various times. Also, yes they do care about their players and have even made statements on Vote Kicking in the past, especially on the PC side of things. They've stated numerous times that they are continually monitoring and working to make a solution.
Here is one of their latest replies on the Vote Kick issue from this very thread, others can be found through out past threads and in live streams. Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ RoC | ToS | Support ]
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
But heres the scenario I encountered last night that really kinda pissed me off.
I ran Epic Throne of Idris, got all the way to the end and killed the final boss. The boss dropped an epic neck and a piece I couldnt use. I needed the neck because it was an upgrade for me. Some other guy in the group gets mad that I win the roll so he gets his friends to initiate a vote kick before I can loot the chest at the end of the dungeon. I basically run to the chest open it and I see the tier 1 chest pop up my screen. I was pretty happy because thats the item I really wanted anyway. But before I could loot the chest I basically get removed from the group with a vote kick.
The frustrating part is it used my epic dungeon key and I wasnt able to get my chest item. It basically happened because some guy was mad I won a roll earlier in the dungeon and got 'his' loot, so he got his guildmates in the party to vote kick me AFTER the final boss was already dead.
If you are going to fix anything at least make it so you cant be vote kicked after the final boss of a dungeon has been killed. That was just plain wrong and pretty rude.
Currently we can only 5 man dungeon, we aren't able to solo or progress by ourselves without someone joining.
- Have a set role finding system.
For instance 3 dps, 1 healer, 1 tank.
( you'd have to be able to select which roles you can que for cos certain classes can dps or tank/heal)
- Not allow the ability to kick if a person is pulling there wweight.
( active, and doing wat should be doing)
- A kick needs a real reasoN
- Kicks can only be initiated every so often often. And abuse can lead to a ban on queuing.
- A "goodwill" system were each player has a reputation.
And certain groups can look for players in that reputation range.
All other ideas are welcome.
Let's make this game better for everyone else to play!!!
Ok sometimes you will need to kick but aslong as you are not kicking all the time your kick rate will be low!
https://youtube.com/channel/UCHpxPsGP_kfPXaW622qSXyA
A lot of what you ask for OP could be hard to quantify, therefore hard to program. How can the Devs possibly program something to determine whether you are "pulling your weight" or "playing as intended" for example? It's a great idea, just not practical I'm afraid. S
Some of the other suggestions, such as a required reason (perhaps a drop down menu that has to be chosen and that also informs kicked player as to why) and restrictions on how often kicks can happen most surely should be implemented.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCHpxPsGP_kfPXaW622qSXyA
I'm with this idea. The only reason I kick is if someone DC'd and doesn't come back after a few minutes. But make it for the group though, not individuals.
I'm a healing DC. Just completed an epic Caverns of Karrundax. I jumped in near the middle as the group was disbanding -- 3 slots opened up, 3 people joined, and kicked the other DPS. Another joined. We completed the dungeon without issue. Killed the last boss, and while cleaning up the residual adds -- the wave of vote kicks happened. I had noticed earlier, but didn't think of it, 3 players were from the same guild. So, once all the "hard work" was completed, they kicked everyone who wasn't in their guild. Since adds were still up -- couldn't loot the chest. So, I essentially wasted about an hour of my time with nothing to show for it. The fear of kicking shouldn't even exist after the final boss has been defeated.
Why are you even allowed to kick after the final boss has been defeated? It would simply take a relatively small chunk of code to tie in disabling the kicking system if loot chest has "spawned."
And, for the overall kicking problem -- while I don't always like to relate things in terms of WoW, they redesigned a lot in terms of "bring the player, not the class." As it stands now -- it is bring the class, but not exactly more than 1 of said class. You could further alter the queuing system by allowing the selection of a healer/tank/dps role. This queue and kicking system is extremely outdated, and can be downright frustrating.
No that particular idea doesn't seem like it should be hard to implement. I've seen similar ratings in sports games regarding how likely a person is to disconnect from a match, and they have been helpful in determining whether to bother or not since you couldn't get credit for a win unless your opponent played the match out. It won't always tell the whole story, but repeat offenders will at least be easier to spot.
The calculations that are shown at the end of each dungeon currently such as damage and heals.
ADDITIONALLY, a possible leaderboard were it shows what a player normally pulls in a certain dungeon.
For example of a player averages out 15m damage per run, people wouldn't kick Him/her.
But if he/she is averaging 5-6m you can do the calculations in your head that this guy's a 16k GS Rouge, yet this dudes a slacker.
The randomness and quickness it exactlt what it is..random..you shpuld be stuck with who you enter into..or you can leave
DISABLE THE KICK SYSTEM
Why even bother playing??
This whole game is nothing but cheaters
I think that the best way to let the party kick a player or not is to refer to the "classification of the players" at that time. The designers of the game have a lot of data to manage to do it well. I try to do an example that could be studied, depth and perfected.
For example if I could decide, I would do this:
1) If a player is first, second or third in the (damage OR damage obtained OR cure) AND he is not immobilized from art least 45 seconds, he can not be kicked.
2) If a player is disconnected for more than 2 minutes, he is automatically kicked out
3) If there is a Drop in a boss area, a player can not be kicked untill the drop has been attribuited.
and so on .... going in depth. I think it is the right way.
I see people calling low GS dps. But what indication do they have in game on the damage these folks have done? (I haven't seen anything beyond the last score board but I could be missing something.)
Not the right class balance. This is equally rubbish, if a group has got through all the encounters to a point, then class balance is irrelevant surely.
Need a healer/tank. I have done plenty of epics successfully without either of those, and just as much with them.
Overall this game is great because it doesn't conform 100% to the holy trinity of Tank/Heal/Damage, and that is refreshing (except when you tanking as a TR) something that should be embraced.
There are a couple of solutions that should be considered:
1) Limit the number of V2K a character/account can initiate.
2) if a Player is V2K'd, allow them a feedback response to mods, if they feel it is unfair, then perhaps the initiator's V2K option is blocked for X dungeons/days.
3)Increase the number of votes required, perhaps making it 4? If the party is smaller than 5 V2K can't be initiated.
It also goes without saying that characters should not be kicked during boss fights nor for a minute post the fight to allow loot.
Looking for:
Slot 1: (YOU) as X class
Slot 2: CW
Slot 3: GF
Slot 4: TR
Slot 5: DC
Dungeon or Skirmish Name:
Specify level, hell, maybe even down to the Paragon path, if that means so much to you. Then alternately, people who just want to join "queues" will be put in a pool. The pool matches viable community members to your requested queues/missions, and you'll be given an option to move on after X minutes after if you're still short a person. People in the queue pool can maybe choose from a set of 3-5 missions/skirms they want to do. Obviously, remove the kick option. Probably needs a lot more refining and background programming magic to make it work reliably, but these kick horror stories are really getting me down. I'm amazed that the people who have all the rules don't already have guilds so they can take themselves and their friends onto runs that are perfectly controlled with members you've played with, and who probably don't mind using the alt character class you really want in your party. And if you're in guilds, why are you still picking up randoms and kicking them for not being what you want when you have an entire team of players and their alts to request help from?