Well, you seem to missing on one aspect of the new Regeneration while in combat, in that it also increases the amount of incoming healing that you receive.
It is still contradictory and is of little to no benefit.
The hunter ranger is the most ranged self reliant class. With Battlehoned as it is to be in preview now. Having to rely on a proc to get you the CHANCE of being healed for just a bit more in the CHANCE you are in a party with someone that can heal you, in the CHANCE you happened to be attacked and the healer by CHANCE happens to notice you're hurt, in the CHANCE they heal you when it actually procs since it has quite long cooldown period before it procs again.
That situation is far too particular than the broader application it was used to before. Most applications when this feature is used will be wasted more often than not. Its like trying salvage kitty litter at this point.
-Companions. So we can make them legendary right? For what price? 1 million Ad? or 3 million Ad? If i remember right upgrading your companion from blue to epic you have to give 300k AD. Another paid customer's upgrade.
Alas, it is even much more expensive than that !
Upgrading from white to green is 250 000 AD if I remember well
Upgrading from green to blue is 500 000 AD
Upgrading from blue to purple is 750 000 AD. So that's 1.5 M to go from white to purple.
If they follow that logic, the cost to upgrade from Purple to... whatever it will be, will be around 1 M.
No way I'm going to upgrade all my inactive companions. Upgrading only the active will already be 5 M !!
You know... when you want a donkey to walk, you put a carrot just in front of his nose.
I have a feeling they put the carrot way too far this time...
Alas, it is even much more expensive than that !
Upgrading from white to green is 250 000 AD if I remember well
Upgrading from green to blue is 500 000 AD
Upgrading from blue to purple is 750 000 AD. So that's 1.5 M to go from white to purple.
If they follow that logic, the cost to upgrade from Purple to... whatever it will be, will be around 1 M.
No way I'm going to upgrade all my inactive companions. Upgrading only the active will already be 5 M !!
You know... when you want a donkey to walk, you put a carrot just in front of his nose.
I have a feeling they put the carrot way too far this time...
Was already pretty far.Been wearing glasses just to notice it before.
-Not everyone has level 10 enchants. They sell for min 2 million AD on AH. Bringing level 12 enchants make no sense. You are making this for only your paid customers. Which makes this game p2w.
-Companions. So we can make them legendary right? For what price? 1 million Ad? or 3 million Ad? If i remember right upgrading your companion from blue to epic you have to give 300k AD. Another paid customer's upgrade.
-Makin proffesions 25 is another useless idea. Making leadership 20 even takes ages unless you pay 400k for Hero. Which is also for paid customers. Which makes this game p2w.
- classes will have new feats etc. Thats ok but not priority. Your priority is to make all classes equal first. Priests go solo in dungeons without need of gwf and cw. They are just healers lol.
-Upgrading artifact takes ages if you play legally which i do. Do i have to use bot from now on for to reach level 120? Look around you everyone is afk farming...
-You nerf life steal and regen but increase the power of enemies. Cool. But did you ever thought about cw or sw before doing this? Are you going to increase our armor vales +5 and defense values +2000? Than ok for me. But if not don't touch our only survival option! We DON'T have armor like orher close combat classes!
This all patch is a disaster from up to bottom.
Not: I am not against paying but i am against who forces players to pay.
This. This exactly.
0
Options
ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
edited January 2015
Word from me. I prefer to act like kid now. Close the eyes, and bad guy won't come for me.
We will see. But I'm usre, that I will not pay even penny for those guys, who completelly ignore community voice. All of our efforts made for balance, bug removing etc was totally ignored. So why we should discuss with them? Class advocate? C'mon, just a bad joke.
At least dont push us to use bots to lvl up our weapons/artifacts. You made a system, where gettin one legend item costs more than xbox one (as some1 said previously). Let us play legit.
If not, then bb nwo.
Ryoshin GF (4.2k) .Suicide Squad.
0
Options
aaablacklady9Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 81Arc User
edited January 2015
im so generous i will tell u a Secret.. of Neverwinter...
I will start from beginning...
Once upon a time, a magnificent Class , with greet skill of attack and great healing skills!! he could rly save the ppls from death, his name was a leggend..... Devolted Cleric *sound of wind*
Seriously this class is here for a reason.. SUPPORT & HEALING
but noone sayas u have to have it orange in 1 day this was meant to be long term farming so ppl have something to farm for
Good luck with that, when the cycle time of major, panicky changes is shorter than the duration of any "long term farming" effort. Paging Sisyphus..
0
Options
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited January 2015
Potions: We have changed the way that stat enhancing potions work. Now you may have only one normal stat enhancing potion in effect at one time. The magnitude of many stat potions has also been increased.
Regeneration: No longer provides in Combat Health Regeneration. Now increases the effectiveness of healing spells cast against you and provides out of Combat health regeneration.
Life Steal: No longer activates on all attacks. Life Steal now increases the chance to activate life steal, which will steal an amount equal to the life steal severity the player has.
Everyone happy now? THIS is what you wanted. You people in these forums kept complaining that dungeons became too easy, so what did you expect? We get some new feats and enchant levels that we will never reach, but also these huge nerfs.
twitch.tv/kaligold
0
Options
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited January 2015
People complaining about potions keep failing to comment on the increased effects to potions. How about we reserve such speculation until we experience these items? Else, such is just doomsaying. Furthermore, I don't see the regen and ls changes to be a nerf. Nay, I see that as a much needed balance change.
From what I have read on people actually testing Life Steal, many have said it seems lackluster, yet many have also said it seems better. Let's wait to try it for ourselves instead of relying on other's opinions. The only good opinion is one that one's self has made through one's own actual experience, not made by hopping on the wagon of another's opinion without the aforementioned personal experience.
I played on the preview when it was up. I'm a 20.4k CW with 5 oranges and the crabs on the beach killed me? $2000+ character and killed by crabs.... gimme a break.
0
Options
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
I played on the preview when it was up. I'm a 20.4k CW with 5 oranges and the crabs on the beach killed me? $2000+ character and killed by crabs.... gimme a break.
Those were $2500 crabs, what did you expect? =D
0
Options
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I played on the preview when it was up. I'm a 20.4k CW with 5 oranges and the crabs on the beach killed me? $2000+ character and killed by crabs.... gimme a break.
How did you get a 20.4k character into the newbie starting zone? I don't remember crabs there, is this new or are you talking about a different zone?
Raven cliff beach. It was a Blue Heroic I stumbled into while looking for a quest objective. Now before you jump on me Zeb about these being "heroic" crabs, let me say. It's a blue heroic. If my character at 20.4k with 5 Legendary artifacts/equipment can't solo a blue heroic, then I don't want to play anymore. I am a solo player. If a person had to group up to do a heroic ... where is the "hero" part? Never before have I had to run away from a heroic. Funfactor=0.
0
Options
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited January 2015
Introduction
The removal of in combat regeneration for the regeneration stat and changing it to an incoming healing bonus from spells cast upon you is a nerf. It removes a unique means of self-healing in combat and replaces it with a stat that already exists in the game (Incoming Healing). Regardless of the benefit of boosting spells, it makes those who have Regeneration less viable in solo PvE (where someone will not be healing you) and changes regeneration into Incoming Healing stat in combat and a valueless out of combat self-healing (potions have no cooldown time out of combat, and one can easily spam pots to get to full health, so one saves a few pieces of currency that has almost no value anyway). The complaints are not doomsaying, but logical.
Logical Impact of Removing In Combat Regeneration Healing
My current complaint is not that certain classes will die off, but that, with the changes, entire builds for classes that rely upon the stats in Solo PvE are not as viable/survivable. I play a GF and layer the means of healing to increase survivability while performing solo PvE or tanking large mobs for parties. The In Combat heal from Regen permits the DC to focus on healing others. The Nerf seems to make the classes more dependent on a healer in the party, perhaps to make the new Paladin class more valuable in its healing aspects (whatever they may be). However, some classes (like the GF) already require the many layers of self-healing along with healing to survive some of the top bosses.
Supposive Benefits to Removing In Combat Regeneration Healing
Yes, the changes will require more of a rainbow spread of classes in the party. Yes, one leg of the Trinity is again propped up in a game that favors the dps class. However, the third leg of the tank role is weakened by the removal of In Combat self-healing. I think Cryptic can find a different means to make the healer more useful rather than weakening the tank.
How is the GF Tank Weakened?
For mathematical analysis, I have 60k hit points and regenerate at 15% (my real stats, yes). A potion in combat can heal me 8500. The new regen stat does not affect potions, only spells. So there is no gain from the potion. Its max is still 8500hp. The potion takes 12 seconds to recharge in combat. So, I am healing at an avg of ~700 hit points per second of the potion's availability. With incombat regeneration in place, I gain an additional average of ~1500 hit points per second when near death. The value of regeneration increases as I near death. Even at 50% health, I would be gaining an average of ~750 hit points per second more.
Mathematical Comparison Between Current Regen and Mod 6 Regen
Let's now say a maxed DC can heal me for 30% of my hit points (with all encounters), and that the heals have average-cooldown time of 5 seconds. It is not mathematical to compare the 30% to the current regen stat, but to compare the boost incoming healing based on the regen stat to the current regen stat. So, 30% of my hit points at 15% regen would equal 34.5%. The difference from the regen stat would be 4.5% of my max hit points. 4.5% of my max hit points would equal an increase of 2700 hit points, with the cooldown. I made it 5 seconds for the purpose of a super DC. The healing rate per second would be equal an average of 540 hit points per second increase. Of the three methods of healing, this is the worst. To approach my current healing from incombat regeneration at 50% hit points, the DC would need to be able to heal me for about 42% of my max hit points in 5 seconds with all his encounters. To approach the healing for incombat regeneration when near death, the DC would need to heal me for almost 84% of my hit points.
Conclusion
The 50% hit point life is the average for regeneration for the time that the current regeneration stat works. To receive comparative healing, the DC will need to be able to heal at an additional rate of 750 hit points per second with all of his/her encounters to make up for the loss of regeneration. And this is with a GF with average hit points (60k) and excellent regen (15%). For others that do not have the hit points of the GF or the regeneration of the GF, the change will not be as mathematically impactful.
Proposed Modifications that can fit within Mod 6 plans
1. Since mod 6 is adding new class powers (however that may look), give the GF class the option of slotting a 10% new regen stat boost, and let this 10% be additive to the incombat incoming healing and not multiplicative. Thus, for those GFs that have builds that use a lot of regen (currently), in mod 6, the redesign of regen will be comparative (for me it, if I chose it, I would have a 25% in combat spell healing boost), but at the cost of choosing it as an option. After all, we cannot have everything, can we?
Make the same option available to other classes that might have tanking options.
2. Redo the formula for regeneration so that it does not softcap at 15%, but 25%. Thus, for those that have invested in regeneration, the change will be comparative, but only in a party function. Solo PvE will still be harder. And, it will keep the role of the healer in the party necessary. I prefer this option in that it is specific per the stat, and requires anyone to invest in it by accumulating the regeneration.
Potential Unintended Consequence of the Redesign
I am not familiar with the current incoming healing formula to know whether it has a build-in hard cap limit. However, with the options for incoming healing from offhand arti equipment, artifacts, boons, and racial modifiers, the change to regeneration to an in combat incoming healing bonus might make it hit the hard cap limit. For example, a regular dragon born with 3 boons in Tyranny of Dragon in incoming healing and with offhand selected for incoming healing and with artifact and with another boon could have incoming healing around 25-28% already, maybe even 30%. If regen is changed to the incoming healing bonus, then this would be between 40-45% (hypothetically). But, what happens if the hard cap in the formula for incoming healing is 30%. Then, the regeneration's effect would be nothing. The player would need to reduce the current incoming healing stat. To do this, he could respec on the boons (15-16%), change his offhand selection (3%), change his artifacts (-5%), change his racial selection (5%). The easiest one would be the respeccing of the boons, since a forced respecced is going to be applied anyway. Could someone reply to this post with the formula for Incoming Healing and give the hard cap on it, if any?
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited January 2015
Excellent post, checkmatein3.
Something tells me that they did not take into consideration the high hp / regen and low dps tank builds when they went through with this change.
Other changes to the class are needed to compensate for this loss if this goes live (and it most likely will). Not every GF is a Conqueror that will just cope with a shift to Life Steal.
Potions: We have changed the way that stat enhancing potions work. Now you may have only one normal stat enhancing potion in effect at one time. The magnitude of many stat potions has also been increased.
Regeneration: No longer provides in Combat Health Regeneration. Now increases the effectiveness of healing spells cast against you and provides out of Combat health regeneration.
Life Steal: No longer activates on all attacks. Life Steal now increases the chance to activate life steal, which will steal an amount equal to the life steal severity the player has.
Everyone happy now? THIS is what you wanted. You people in these forums kept complaining that dungeons became too easy, so what did you expect? We get some new feats and enchant levels that we will never reach, but also these huge nerfs.
after regen/ls changes both GWF/GF ill most likely disapear from the game there is no way any of fighters ill survive in new content.
That makes the Pathfinder HR class feature Battlehoned absolutely worthless now.
You have to remember that this is a very early preview version. It is no where near finalized and even then, they are still working on the HR. We don't even have our new feats yet. Mechanics, skills and feats can always change.
after regen/ls changes both GWF/GF ill most likely disapear from the game there is no way any of fighters ill survive in new content.
Not that I am not sharing the disappointment with everyone about gf and maybe gwf, but as to gf, what about fighters recovery? I use that often when I get into trouble, with that and guarded assault I heal 7500+ standing in dragon breath! one enforced threat brings me to full.
My gwf has points in healing 5% when using unstoppable, and with the dread ring feat endless consumption life steal can restore a lot of health not mention restoring strike.
Are a lot of the complaints here that people will need to change the way they okay and stop filling every feat and power slot with max dps?
Instead of making regeneration and life steal useless ,u should increase it.
Now tanks cant do crabs , Other squishy class to..SW lol even more useless.
Worste idea to change the reg/ls effect.
.
Healers are actually needed now for group content?
BLASPHEMY!
Why would anyone EVER take a healer to keep up a tank! Its an outrage!
No one ever should need a healer or tank for anything, because thats stupid mmo design! It should all be PEWPEW DEEPEE ESS so no other classes except CW and TR are ever needed to clear the content!
I expect the changes to be extremely healthy for economy(now you have a gold dump as you need pots) and variety(want sustain? pick a healer for the group).
Now before you jump on me Zeb about these being "heroic" crabs, let me say. It's a blue heroic. If my character at 20.4k with 5 Legendary artifacts/equipment can't solo a blue heroic, then I don't want to play anymore. I am a solo player. If a person had to group up to do a heroic ... where is the "hero" part? Never before have I had to run away from a heroic. Funfactor=0.
Because HE's were designed for multiple players. Ever wonder why when you step into one it says recommended 2-3 players or 3-5? The only reason we were able to solo IWD and WoD HE's is because we were completely over powered for the content. IWD HE content was hard for many when it first released. The same thing applies here. The "starter" gear that you got when entering the zone was slightly better than purple artifact gear and T3 gear. So the gear you wear now is barely better than blues and greens you find in the zone. They kicked the challenge up a notch and now that you can't faceroll it, the game is too hard.
Raven cliff beach. It was a Blue Heroic I stumbled into while looking for a quest objective. Now before you jump on me Zeb about these being "heroic" crabs, let me say. It's a blue heroic. If my character at 20.4k with 5 Legendary artifacts/equipment can't solo a blue heroic, then I don't want to play anymore. I am a solo player. If a person had to group up to do a heroic ... where is the "hero" part? Never before have I had to run away from a heroic. Funfactor=0.
You do realize that you are NOT supposed to be soloing heroics they are in fact "group" content. The fact people were soloing the is kind of something I thought needed to be fixed. However in my experience this game isn't the most random group friendly between elitists and people who have no desire to learn grouping for anything is difficulty let alone the time spent asking for groups getting ignored when I could be playing. Yes guilds are a good way around this unless you like your guild but it's smile with a decline in players.
I have a cw that can solo a lot of blue heroics in IWD and WoD, so I think I have a place to comment here. I do sympathize with the lack of rewarding solo content, but this is an mmo, so if you want solo content you will have to adapt or look into single player games which is a lot cheaper than $2000 if you spent actual money.
So my character worth over $2000 isn't good enough for a blue encounter that is 3-5 person recommended (Recommended not required). The only thing left to do to my CW at this time is upgrading my rank 9's to 10's and that is WAI?
So my character worth over $2000 isn't good enough for a blue encounter that is 3-5 person recommended (Recommended not required). The only thing left to do to my CW at this time is upgrading my rank 9's to 10's and that is WAI?
So the gear you wear now is barely better than blues and greens you find in the zone. So yes, it's WAI.
So my character worth over $2000 isn't good enough for a blue encounter that is 3-5 person recommended (Recommended not required). The only thing left to do to my CW at this time is upgrading my rank 9's to 10's and that is WAI?
Yes even a $2000 character should not be able to solo "group" content. The 2-3 encounters probably should be soloable once you start hitting top end.
In DND heoric is a group ... EVERY DnD game is about a group of people, I think 4 - 5 is the intended group size for the Pen and Paper game, to do things as a group. Heroic is NOT taking on a dragon SOLO.
MMO stands for massively mulitplayer online ... which means it will have probably story and single player content but the focus is on "groups" in the form of heroics or dungeons. People solo stuff because they are OVER GEARED for it, technically that shouldn't even be fun however this game is laid out with such aspects that ENCOURAGE bad behavior and GREED so it makes people want to solo content so ONLY THEY can get the loot that drops and make PROFIT.
The problem in a minor degree is that AH and such was meant I believe to allow people who could get things they didn't want to TRADE them for things they DID want. However the game is such now that it is greed based meaning everyone wants to fatten as much AD as they can do buy things to make themselves better or to buy those absurdly low drop rate things like Tenser's Floating Disc (which I want so bad I'd sell my soul for it however the AD people want is FAR beyond what I will ever have to spend or would want to since so much needs to go into this game for improvement).
I am sitting at R8's mostly on my main and some alts, I have a couple of R9's and frankly the money and effort that goes into them to make them isn't agreeable to me. You can have two 220 stat buffs OR one 260? even worse to get to R10. For current PVE i'm pretty happy with R8's. The only thing a $2000 dollar character with R9 and R10's is good for .... roll stomping people in PVP or farming lower end epic dungeons so you can get all the drops for yourself. Which is NOT WAI. Farming 5 man dungeons or 5 - 10 man heroics solo is NOT WAI.
The game is meant to promote group play. I will continue to state that this game doesn't group well at all in my opinion. There are days I get on and find people that want to play learn to play and do things together ... but most of the time find good groups to run with is pretty time consuming and fruitless so I end up farming dailies or working up alts through campaign stuff.
I'm sorry you feel that you spent $2000 on a toon, thank you for supporting the game but you should NOT expect that means it turns the game into a solo experience for you. I have spent a fair amount of real money myself but sadly I spread it across 6 level toons and the new mod is making it seem like I will be back to solely focusing on one maybe two tops.
I hope for your $2000 you have a lot more than high end epic gear and mounts because if you are only in R8's I think you may have squandered some money somewhere. even at 450:1 zen exchange that is like 90 million AD if sold and frankly you should have been able to buy a mount, some hot companions and all perfect and R10's for you $2k and still had AD left over to oufit a second toon and have probably nearly all profession tools at purple??
**edit**
I do think that spending money should make things easier so don't get me wrong, you should probably have a slightly easier time than me (getting things to orange faster and such) but I disagree with spending money to make a group game soloable.
I don't agree. If everything is intended for group content. Then why sell us so much power?
I have all rank 9's (even my movement) 1 rank 10, a Black Dragon Ioun stone with perfect bonding stones, 5 dual slot rings from jewelcrafting, legendary main hand, legendary belt, 3x legendary Artifacts, epic black ice neck(not going legendary now), epic Offhand (also now not going legendary), a perfect vorpal and 26 fully leveled purple companions. Everything from control (cantankerous mage + Will'o'wisp) to combat advantage (blink dog and intellect devourer) to crit severity (Erinyes and dancing blade) to healing (battlefield medic and cleric disciple)... too many to name all.
All that and and you think heroics shouldn't be solo-able? That's the reason I got it.
It's not needed for dungeons. A group of 5x14k of any class makeup can roll though any content in this game. What is the point passing 14k if not to make group content solo-able?
From hero to zero...all from a healing nerf. *shakes head*
They gear me up and send me up against dragons. With a box of band-aids that may or may not stick.
I don't agree. If everything is intended for group content. Then why sell us so much power?
I have all rank 9's (even my movement) 1 rank 10 and 26 fully leveled purple companions. Everything from control (cantankerous mage + Will'o'wisp) to combat advantage (blink dog and intellect devourer) to crit severity (Erinyes and dancing blade) to healing (battlefield medic and cleric disciple)... too many to name all.
A group of 5x14k of any class makeup can roll though any content in this game. What is the point passing 14k?
I don't think you understand the point that we are going back into the leveling stage. The old 60 gear you wear now is in par with leveling greens. For example, if you were to wear level 61 epics, then you'd probably have an easier time trying to solo the new HE's in the Shore zone, and so fourth. We are at the base of the curve at level 60. As you hit end game and gain the new BiS gear, then players with the best of everything will be back on top.
Not everything is necessary for group content. You can quest and do dailies as a solo player. Dungeons and HE's were designed for group content. Players have gotten too comfortable in a niche here, that group content can be done without a tank or healer. Cryptic is now trying to turn that around and make the holy trinity much more useful. Hence they are toning down lifesteal and regeneration to make room for a healer. They will some how fit in a tank, as we have yet to find out how.
Change is coming and everyone's world will be shaken off it's foundation. People will cry and whine at first but then it will be life as we know it. Each subsequent level cap increase will then be normal. People will then be used to the fact that their once BiS gear will now only be junk and you start all over again. It's a nature of MMO games.
Comments
It is still contradictory and is of little to no benefit.
The hunter ranger is the most ranged self reliant class. With Battlehoned as it is to be in preview now. Having to rely on a proc to get you the CHANCE of being healed for just a bit more in the CHANCE you are in a party with someone that can heal you, in the CHANCE you happened to be attacked and the healer by CHANCE happens to notice you're hurt, in the CHANCE they heal you when it actually procs since it has quite long cooldown period before it procs again.
That situation is far too particular than the broader application it was used to before. Most applications when this feature is used will be wasted more often than not. Its like trying salvage kitty litter at this point.
Alas, it is even much more expensive than that !
Upgrading from white to green is 250 000 AD if I remember well
Upgrading from green to blue is 500 000 AD
Upgrading from blue to purple is 750 000 AD. So that's 1.5 M to go from white to purple.
If they follow that logic, the cost to upgrade from Purple to... whatever it will be, will be around 1 M.
No way I'm going to upgrade all my inactive companions. Upgrading only the active will already be 5 M !!
You know... when you want a donkey to walk, you put a carrot just in front of his nose.
I have a feeling they put the carrot way too far this time...
Was already pretty far.Been wearing glasses just to notice it before.
Instead of making regeneration and life steal useless ,u should increase it.
Now tanks cant do crabs , Other squishy class to..SW lol even more useless.
Worste idea to change the reg/ls effect.
.
This. This exactly.
We will see. But I'm usre, that I will not pay even penny for those guys, who completelly ignore community voice. All of our efforts made for balance, bug removing etc was totally ignored. So why we should discuss with them? Class advocate? C'mon, just a bad joke.
At least dont push us to use bots to lvl up our weapons/artifacts. You made a system, where gettin one legend item costs more than xbox one (as some1 said previously). Let us play legit.
If not, then bb nwo.
.Suicide Squad.
I will start from beginning...
Once upon a time, a magnificent Class , with greet skill of attack and great healing skills!! he could rly save the ppls from death, his name was a leggend..... Devolted Cleric *sound of wind*
Seriously this class is here for a reason.. SUPPORT & HEALING
Good luck with that, when the cycle time of major, panicky changes is shorter than the duration of any "long term farming" effort. Paging Sisyphus..
Regeneration: No longer provides in Combat Health Regeneration. Now increases the effectiveness of healing spells cast against you and provides out of Combat health regeneration.
Life Steal: No longer activates on all attacks. Life Steal now increases the chance to activate life steal, which will steal an amount equal to the life steal severity the player has.
Everyone happy now? THIS is what you wanted. You people in these forums kept complaining that dungeons became too easy, so what did you expect? We get some new feats and enchant levels that we will never reach, but also these huge nerfs.
From what I have read on people actually testing Life Steal, many have said it seems lackluster, yet many have also said it seems better. Let's wait to try it for ourselves instead of relying on other's opinions. The only good opinion is one that one's self has made through one's own actual experience, not made by hopping on the wagon of another's opinion without the aforementioned personal experience.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Those were $2500 crabs, what did you expect? =D
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
The removal of in combat regeneration for the regeneration stat and changing it to an incoming healing bonus from spells cast upon you is a nerf. It removes a unique means of self-healing in combat and replaces it with a stat that already exists in the game (Incoming Healing). Regardless of the benefit of boosting spells, it makes those who have Regeneration less viable in solo PvE (where someone will not be healing you) and changes regeneration into Incoming Healing stat in combat and a valueless out of combat self-healing (potions have no cooldown time out of combat, and one can easily spam pots to get to full health, so one saves a few pieces of currency that has almost no value anyway). The complaints are not doomsaying, but logical.
Logical Impact of Removing In Combat Regeneration Healing
My current complaint is not that certain classes will die off, but that, with the changes, entire builds for classes that rely upon the stats in Solo PvE are not as viable/survivable. I play a GF and layer the means of healing to increase survivability while performing solo PvE or tanking large mobs for parties. The In Combat heal from Regen permits the DC to focus on healing others. The Nerf seems to make the classes more dependent on a healer in the party, perhaps to make the new Paladin class more valuable in its healing aspects (whatever they may be). However, some classes (like the GF) already require the many layers of self-healing along with healing to survive some of the top bosses.
Supposive Benefits to Removing In Combat Regeneration Healing
Yes, the changes will require more of a rainbow spread of classes in the party. Yes, one leg of the Trinity is again propped up in a game that favors the dps class. However, the third leg of the tank role is weakened by the removal of In Combat self-healing. I think Cryptic can find a different means to make the healer more useful rather than weakening the tank.
How is the GF Tank Weakened?
For mathematical analysis, I have 60k hit points and regenerate at 15% (my real stats, yes). A potion in combat can heal me 8500. The new regen stat does not affect potions, only spells. So there is no gain from the potion. Its max is still 8500hp. The potion takes 12 seconds to recharge in combat. So, I am healing at an avg of ~700 hit points per second of the potion's availability. With incombat regeneration in place, I gain an additional average of ~1500 hit points per second when near death. The value of regeneration increases as I near death. Even at 50% health, I would be gaining an average of ~750 hit points per second more.
Mathematical Comparison Between Current Regen and Mod 6 Regen
Let's now say a maxed DC can heal me for 30% of my hit points (with all encounters), and that the heals have average-cooldown time of 5 seconds. It is not mathematical to compare the 30% to the current regen stat, but to compare the boost incoming healing based on the regen stat to the current regen stat. So, 30% of my hit points at 15% regen would equal 34.5%. The difference from the regen stat would be 4.5% of my max hit points. 4.5% of my max hit points would equal an increase of 2700 hit points, with the cooldown. I made it 5 seconds for the purpose of a super DC. The healing rate per second would be equal an average of 540 hit points per second increase. Of the three methods of healing, this is the worst. To approach my current healing from incombat regeneration at 50% hit points, the DC would need to be able to heal me for about 42% of my max hit points in 5 seconds with all his encounters. To approach the healing for incombat regeneration when near death, the DC would need to heal me for almost 84% of my hit points.
Conclusion
The 50% hit point life is the average for regeneration for the time that the current regeneration stat works. To receive comparative healing, the DC will need to be able to heal at an additional rate of 750 hit points per second with all of his/her encounters to make up for the loss of regeneration. And this is with a GF with average hit points (60k) and excellent regen (15%). For others that do not have the hit points of the GF or the regeneration of the GF, the change will not be as mathematically impactful.
Proposed Modifications that can fit within Mod 6 plans
1. Since mod 6 is adding new class powers (however that may look), give the GF class the option of slotting a 10% new regen stat boost, and let this 10% be additive to the incombat incoming healing and not multiplicative. Thus, for those GFs that have builds that use a lot of regen (currently), in mod 6, the redesign of regen will be comparative (for me it, if I chose it, I would have a 25% in combat spell healing boost), but at the cost of choosing it as an option. After all, we cannot have everything, can we?
Make the same option available to other classes that might have tanking options.
2. Redo the formula for regeneration so that it does not softcap at 15%, but 25%. Thus, for those that have invested in regeneration, the change will be comparative, but only in a party function. Solo PvE will still be harder. And, it will keep the role of the healer in the party necessary. I prefer this option in that it is specific per the stat, and requires anyone to invest in it by accumulating the regeneration.
Potential Unintended Consequence of the Redesign
I am not familiar with the current incoming healing formula to know whether it has a build-in hard cap limit. However, with the options for incoming healing from offhand arti equipment, artifacts, boons, and racial modifiers, the change to regeneration to an in combat incoming healing bonus might make it hit the hard cap limit. For example, a regular dragon born with 3 boons in Tyranny of Dragon in incoming healing and with offhand selected for incoming healing and with artifact and with another boon could have incoming healing around 25-28% already, maybe even 30%. If regen is changed to the incoming healing bonus, then this would be between 40-45% (hypothetically). But, what happens if the hard cap in the formula for incoming healing is 30%. Then, the regeneration's effect would be nothing. The player would need to reduce the current incoming healing stat. To do this, he could respec on the boons (15-16%), change his offhand selection (3%), change his artifacts (-5%), change his racial selection (5%). The easiest one would be the respeccing of the boons, since a forced respecced is going to be applied anyway. Could someone reply to this post with the formula for Incoming Healing and give the hard cap on it, if any?
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Something tells me that they did not take into consideration the high hp / regen and low dps tank builds when they went through with this change.
Other changes to the class are needed to compensate for this loss if this goes live (and it most likely will). Not every GF is a Conqueror that will just cope with a shift to Life Steal.
after regen/ls changes both GWF/GF ill most likely disapear from the game there is no way any of fighters ill survive in new content.
You have to remember that this is a very early preview version. It is no where near finalized and even then, they are still working on the HR. We don't even have our new feats yet. Mechanics, skills and feats can always change.
Not that I am not sharing the disappointment with everyone about gf and maybe gwf, but as to gf, what about fighters recovery? I use that often when I get into trouble, with that and guarded assault I heal 7500+ standing in dragon breath! one enforced threat brings me to full.
My gwf has points in healing 5% when using unstoppable, and with the dread ring feat endless consumption life steal can restore a lot of health not mention restoring strike.
Are a lot of the complaints here that people will need to change the way they okay and stop filling every feat and power slot with max dps?
Healers are actually needed now for group content?
BLASPHEMY!
Why would anyone EVER take a healer to keep up a tank! Its an outrage!
No one ever should need a healer or tank for anything, because thats stupid mmo design! It should all be PEWPEW DEEPEE ESS so no other classes except CW and TR are ever needed to clear the content!
I expect the changes to be extremely healthy for economy(now you have a gold dump as you need pots) and variety(want sustain? pick a healer for the group).
Because HE's were designed for multiple players. Ever wonder why when you step into one it says recommended 2-3 players or 3-5? The only reason we were able to solo IWD and WoD HE's is because we were completely over powered for the content. IWD HE content was hard for many when it first released. The same thing applies here. The "starter" gear that you got when entering the zone was slightly better than purple artifact gear and T3 gear. So the gear you wear now is barely better than blues and greens you find in the zone. They kicked the challenge up a notch and now that you can't faceroll it, the game is too hard.
You do realize that you are NOT supposed to be soloing heroics they are in fact "group" content. The fact people were soloing the is kind of something I thought needed to be fixed. However in my experience this game isn't the most random group friendly between elitists and people who have no desire to learn grouping for anything is difficulty let alone the time spent asking for groups getting ignored when I could be playing. Yes guilds are a good way around this unless you like your guild but it's smile with a decline in players.
I have a cw that can solo a lot of blue heroics in IWD and WoD, so I think I have a place to comment here. I do sympathize with the lack of rewarding solo content, but this is an mmo, so if you want solo content you will have to adapt or look into single player games which is a lot cheaper than $2000 if you spent actual money.
So the gear you wear now is barely better than blues and greens you find in the zone. So yes, it's WAI.
Yes even a $2000 character should not be able to solo "group" content. The 2-3 encounters probably should be soloable once you start hitting top end.
In DND heoric is a group ... EVERY DnD game is about a group of people, I think 4 - 5 is the intended group size for the Pen and Paper game, to do things as a group. Heroic is NOT taking on a dragon SOLO.
MMO stands for massively mulitplayer online ... which means it will have probably story and single player content but the focus is on "groups" in the form of heroics or dungeons. People solo stuff because they are OVER GEARED for it, technically that shouldn't even be fun however this game is laid out with such aspects that ENCOURAGE bad behavior and GREED so it makes people want to solo content so ONLY THEY can get the loot that drops and make PROFIT.
The problem in a minor degree is that AH and such was meant I believe to allow people who could get things they didn't want to TRADE them for things they DID want. However the game is such now that it is greed based meaning everyone wants to fatten as much AD as they can do buy things to make themselves better or to buy those absurdly low drop rate things like Tenser's Floating Disc (which I want so bad I'd sell my soul for it however the AD people want is FAR beyond what I will ever have to spend or would want to since so much needs to go into this game for improvement).
I am sitting at R8's mostly on my main and some alts, I have a couple of R9's and frankly the money and effort that goes into them to make them isn't agreeable to me. You can have two 220 stat buffs OR one 260? even worse to get to R10. For current PVE i'm pretty happy with R8's. The only thing a $2000 dollar character with R9 and R10's is good for .... roll stomping people in PVP or farming lower end epic dungeons so you can get all the drops for yourself. Which is NOT WAI. Farming 5 man dungeons or 5 - 10 man heroics solo is NOT WAI.
The game is meant to promote group play. I will continue to state that this game doesn't group well at all in my opinion. There are days I get on and find people that want to play learn to play and do things together ... but most of the time find good groups to run with is pretty time consuming and fruitless so I end up farming dailies or working up alts through campaign stuff.
I'm sorry you feel that you spent $2000 on a toon, thank you for supporting the game but you should NOT expect that means it turns the game into a solo experience for you. I have spent a fair amount of real money myself but sadly I spread it across 6 level toons and the new mod is making it seem like I will be back to solely focusing on one maybe two tops.
I hope for your $2000 you have a lot more than high end epic gear and mounts because if you are only in R8's I think you may have squandered some money somewhere. even at 450:1 zen exchange that is like 90 million AD if sold and frankly you should have been able to buy a mount, some hot companions and all perfect and R10's for you $2k and still had AD left over to oufit a second toon and have probably nearly all profession tools at purple??
**edit**
I do think that spending money should make things easier so don't get me wrong, you should probably have a slightly easier time than me (getting things to orange faster and such) but I disagree with spending money to make a group game soloable.
I have all rank 9's (even my movement) 1 rank 10, a Black Dragon Ioun stone with perfect bonding stones, 5 dual slot rings from jewelcrafting, legendary main hand, legendary belt, 3x legendary Artifacts, epic black ice neck(not going legendary now), epic Offhand (also now not going legendary), a perfect vorpal and 26 fully leveled purple companions. Everything from control (cantankerous mage + Will'o'wisp) to combat advantage (blink dog and intellect devourer) to crit severity (Erinyes and dancing blade) to healing (battlefield medic and cleric disciple)... too many to name all.
All that and and you think heroics shouldn't be solo-able? That's the reason I got it.
It's not needed for dungeons. A group of 5x14k of any class makeup can roll though any content in this game. What is the point passing 14k if not to make group content solo-able?
From hero to zero...all from a healing nerf. *shakes head*
They gear me up and send me up against dragons. With a box of band-aids that may or may not stick.
I don't think you understand the point that we are going back into the leveling stage. The old 60 gear you wear now is in par with leveling greens. For example, if you were to wear level 61 epics, then you'd probably have an easier time trying to solo the new HE's in the Shore zone, and so fourth. We are at the base of the curve at level 60. As you hit end game and gain the new BiS gear, then players with the best of everything will be back on top.
Not everything is necessary for group content. You can quest and do dailies as a solo player. Dungeons and HE's were designed for group content. Players have gotten too comfortable in a niche here, that group content can be done without a tank or healer. Cryptic is now trying to turn that around and make the holy trinity much more useful. Hence they are toning down lifesteal and regeneration to make room for a healer. They will some how fit in a tank, as we have yet to find out how.
Change is coming and everyone's world will be shaken off it's foundation. People will cry and whine at first but then it will be life as we know it. Each subsequent level cap increase will then be normal. People will then be used to the fact that their once BiS gear will now only be junk and you start all over again. It's a nature of MMO games.