2) No pictures of a Dragonborn with a tail? Are these seriously tailless creatures (despite 4th Edition saying otherwise)?
I'm confused by that last statement, as 4e doesn't state otherwise. The lack is one of the first things stated in the description "Dragonborn resemble humanoid dragons. They're covered in scaly hide, but they don't have tails."
I'm guessing they couldn't figure out how to arrange it on the interface as adding it would probably involve having to fill in an existing power slot, or require a specialized addition to the UI just for them. So they instead made it an artifact included in the pack, though really this is still replacing an existing slot. Maybe if it had been a reusable item for the potion slot (I always seem to have one slot just used to hold extra healing stacks)?
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ministerofchangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I'm guessing they couldn't figure out how to arrange it on the interface as adding it would probably involve having to fill in an existing power slot, or require a specialized addition to the UI just for them. So they instead made it an artifact included in the pack, though really this is still replacing an existing slot. Maybe if it had been a reusable item for the potion slot (I always seem to have one slot just used to hold extra healing stacks)?
I was thinking this also, the only way they could do it is make it take up one of the encounter slot powers (which it pretty much does in 4e from what I have read).
If they had done it then they could have easily made that the difference between a pack version and a f2p version. If people want the breath weapon they buy the pack, anyone who doesn't want it can just use the f2p version. That would have brought it in similar line to the other pack races. From what I remember reading not all Dragonborn develop the breath weapon, so it would have stayed true to the concept and made a lot of us who want a f2p version of the race happy,
I was thinking this also, the only way they could do it is make it take up one of the encounter slot powers (which it pretty much does in 4e from what I have read). ... From what I remember reading not all Dragonborn develop the breath weapon, so it would have stayed true to the concept and made a lot of us who want a f2p version of the race happy,
In tabletop 4e the Dragonborn breath weapon is just an additional encounter power on your list. There are really no "slots" for at-will, encounter, and daily powers in tabletop and so having it doesn't get in the way of other powers you happen to have. Eventually you can have a huge array of powers of the various timing types based on class / level / race / theme / feats and can usually use any of them you see fit without any pre-planning. A high level character could easily go through a dozen encounter powers in an extended battle.
To my knowledge, all player character dragonborn had the breath weapon power, though there were some Dragon Magazine rules for playing Dragonlance Draconians using Dragonborn rules that gave you the option to swap the power for Concussive Vengeance (Bozak) or Caustic Heritage (Kapak). There were also some feats like Dragonborn Channeling that would let you expend your breath attack to do something cool, but you could still elect to breath instead.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Moderator Notice - Numerous posts have been removed for crossing the lines in terms of responses.
Negative feedback is fine but please be respectful while doing so. No need to insult the companies or developers.
Additionally: All countries within the European Union (The UK is in the European Union contrary to some beliefs) are subject to the VAT. As such prices reflect the conversion plus the VAT.
Quick word on the pricing of this if you're a European customer:
US Full Price = $99.99, US Sale Price = $74.99
Euro Full Price = €94.99, Euro Sale Price = €71.24
BUT, but what exchange rates are PWE/Cryptic using???
USD/Sterling Exchange Rate
UK Full Price = £58.84, UK Sale Price = £44.13
€uro/Sterling Exchange Rate
UK Full Price = £75.29, UK Sale Price = £56.47
But they will only sell things to the UK in €uro, so it's £75 or £56.
Forget it.
I will never buy this pack, even if the UK Full Price was £44.00 and the Sale Price had ANOTHER 25% off at £33.00
I bought the Knight of the Feywild pack from Steam for £30, after carefully weighing up the value of the New Character Slot, the Account-Wide New Race, the Account-Wide Unicorn Mount, the Account-Wide Epic Companion, the 600k AD, the Fashion Pack and all the other little things. It is now £44 on Steam, and so no longer worth the money. I would not buy it now, but I did buy it for £30.
The Feywild pack appears to be far better value than the Dragonborn. Not for the Moon Elf race, but for the Mount and other stuff. I did not use the race as Neverwinter Elves = meh.
Is the Dragonborn race REALLY worth 2.5 times the cash, with no mount, no companion etc?
Knight of the Feywild Pack Extra Character Slot
Worth 250 Zen.
Moon Elf Race
Meh - OK if you like Elves, but a Sun Elf may have better racials.
"Knight of the Feywild" Title
Meh - Absolutely worthless to me.
600,000 Astral Diamonds
One time per account, worth 1400 to 1500 Zen at the time. Useful for Character Slots, Enchanted Keys, Retraining Tokens or just buying stuff from the AH.
Adventurer's Helper Pack
One per account, Worth 2000 Zen, on Sale at the time for 1125 Zen
5 Scrolls of Mass Life - Auctioned for 7500 AD each
1 Healing Stone with 200 uses - Auctioned for 100,000 AD
So I got 137,000 AD, minus the 13,700 AH fee, plus the 600,000 AD = 723,750 AD (1700-1800 Zen's worth at the time)
Moonsilver Regalia Clothing
Meh - looks OK on females, once dyed with Cleric colours, but my Dwarf looked decidedly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> until I dyed it black.
Value? Wedding Attire sells for 2000 Zen, Courtesan outfits 1000 Zen. Both look better to me
Dawn Unicorn 110% Epic Mount
Worth 3000 to 4000 Zen compared with other mounts, although, I do wish it looked a little less like a Shire horse with a horn - it is not delicate or ethereal enough.
Sylph Epic Offensive Companion
Worth 2500 Zen compared with Galeb Duhr and Will o' Wisp
Active Bonus = +50% Control Resistance Bonus
Loamweave Enchantment
Difficult to assess Value as they are not at AH or for sale separately for Zen.
Cannot be Refined or Upgraded, but scale with your level.
Stone of Earth
Meh - OK for low level characters with no Amulet, Necklace or Cloak.
So the total Zen value as far as I can tell was roughly 12,000 Zen.
Apparently, the Dragonborn pack completely lacks most of these things for 2.5x the price? No mount? No companion?
The only thing worth trying in Dragonborn for me is the race, for a Warlock or Cleric, but it simply is not worth the £56 Sale Price, and absolutely never worth the £75 Full price. I'd prefer to spend the money on Zen for Coalescent Wards and Keys, but only in a Sale.
I already have an Account-Wide Unicorn and an Account-Wide White Tiger and the only races I have used for my 12 characters are Dwarf, Tiefling, Halfling and one Wood Elf Ranger who is a Leadership Mule.
I have two empty character Slots. One will be used for a Warlock, but none will be used for a Dragonborn unless they massively restructure their pricing policy.
At-Will: 2, 3 if PHB human
Encounter: 3
Daily: 3
Utility: 5
After you get the first three Encounters/Dailies you start having to retrain when you get a new power level. (You can take a lower-level power if you want.)
Paragon Paths give one each of encounter/daily/utility, but these are fixed. Your Epic Destiny will generally give you another utility power as well.
Utility powers can be at-will, encounter, or daily, for that matter. They're also not attack powers, as evidenced by the name. Teleports, extra effects, defense boosters, that sort of thing.
Racial powers tend to be Encounters where they exist; not all races have a racial power.
ministerofchangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2014
Well obviously some of my previous post were deemed too negative, so I will save that rhetoric for various blogs and gaming sites.
Bottom line: The price as it stands is way to high to make it worth getting especially with what is included in the pack. As such it is alienating a large amount of the player base, this number will only increase as the module gets closer and more people become aware of the situation. I will stick by one thing I said earlier, it goes against one of the things the devs said during beta, that we would never have to pay for any content that is more then cosmetic or convenience. Some people might argue that the new race is simply cosmetic, but the fact it has one of the best stat bonuses that would benefit every class in the game, and that there is no other way for us to get it, makes it more then just cosmetic in my opinion.
I happily bought the Feywild and guardian packs, they were only 60.00 and had a lot of great stuff in it that I still enjoy having on new characters today. I didn't get The HR pack because it didn't have anything I wanted in it, but the price reflected it correctly. Most of the junk in this pack besides the race has no real use. I have enough cosmetic outfits, I already have 7 artifacts on each toon (8 once I get my warlock to 60), already have several Zvim sets available for new characters so the equipment isn't much use, the Dragon Overcharge slots are available in game via the campaign, there is no cool pet or mount, the race change token will be in the zen store, there is really nothing worth while in the pack besides the race to me, and its $15 more then either of the packs I got and that's the SALE price. I don't know who put this pack together and gave it its price point, but they sorely dropped the ball.
I don't blame Cryptic for this, they have no control over it, put PWE is showing its true colors, and people are really starting to notice it!
Yeah, they've already been close to violating that with Coalescent Wards. They've made them so difficult to acquire outside of the zen store that you're pushed more and more to having to buy them, and they're *required* for progression as Weapon/Armor enchants are very much needed if you intend to participate in any sort of endgame content with any seriousness.
I'm not impressed. The pack isn't a good value, and it's so far as we know the only way to ever get access to the race. This is very lame.
I bought the Feywild pack willingly and cheerfully because not only did I find most of the contents desirable, I found it to be a good deal. Closest equivalent mount? 40 bucks. A single purple companion? 25 bucks. That's 65 bucks right there, but the pack was 59.99. And hey, I get that purple companion on all my chars. And a fashion set all my chars can use. And cool, I can make a moon elf, I like their coloring and they even threw in a character slot so I don't have to buy more. And hey cool, 600k AD, that's 12 bucks worth at the exchange rate. But mostly the utility of the 110% mount and the account-wide, useful companion. If I had merely claimed just the dawn unicorn and the Sylph on a single character and never touched other characters or even the AD, that would have been a fair value. That I did use that AD, and use the mount and companion on all ten of my characters, and the fashion set on most... Yeah, I don't feel like I got ripped off on that versus buying other stuff. The value is there.
The dragonborn pack, though, I don't get value from, personally. Even assuming I want the race(I don't, but let's assume I do), the other items just don't offer the value. Account-wide green artifact? Uh, I guess that's nice, but I have four of those already and only don't have six because I'm too lazy to get my HR and GF the third DR boon because I don't really like playing either and don't care about their artifacts much anyway. Too much of it seems to be single-claim or worse, consumable. Ew?
It just falls flat to me.
Largely inactive, playing Skyforge as Nai Calus.
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tonotjeeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I wish they would have put a dragon/reptile mount in there to match with the dragonborn race, the new dragon mount will probably come from lockboxes and will be way too expensive/not for your whole account, which is an issue for me/
Doesn't seem to be a popular decision to paywall an entire race and this forum represents a mere fraction of the community , I wonder what the reaction will be like on the 14th when everybody realizes they have to pay to play the new race. Just seems so strange that the pack has no mount or companion , I would have thought making the race free and adding a mount and/or a companion to the pack would make more sense , at least for that price.
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ministerofchangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Doesn't seem to be a popular decision to paywall an entire race and this forum represents a mere fraction of the community , I wonder what the reaction will be like on the 14th when everybody realizes they have to pay to play the new race. Just seems so strange that the pack has no mount or companion , I would have thought making the race free and adding a mount and/or a companion to the pack would make more sense , at least for that price.
^ this ^ is exactly it - as I said above right now its a large number of forum goers and some people in game already unhappy about it, when the general populace realizes there is no other way to get the race the anger we have seen so far will be minor compared to the overall reaction.
I respect a company trying to turn a profit, but this is really a bit much. The value of the items in this pack is nowhere near the current asking price of €70, let alone the full €95.
And while I personally couldn't care less about the Dragonborn, I'm afraid it's the start of a disheartening trend, which at one point will affect something I do care about, say if they introduced the Aasimar, Avariel, Genasi or Fei'Ri races only as a part of insanely overpriced packs, or even worse, if new classes are put behind a paywall as well.
So yes, put me in the unhappy players column, and I do hope this is just an unfortunate one time blip rather than a sign of things to come.
I find it absolutely absurd that players are demanding it to be free, they are already letting you play this game for free. I am fine with a paywall but that price is silly. As many others have stated if it was unlock race only for a lower price I would do that. I'm guessing whoever is incharge of promotions does not know what gamers would buy or want to buy.
and i still find it baffling why they spend time to make green mounts when they have not looked at the upgrade costs.
All i got to say is. IS it me or does the new race look like a bird or chicken or a bearded lizard? think more like a chicken but def not worth the 75 dollars to get a chicken skin over one of the other races
I am fine with a paywall but that price is silly. As many others have stated if it was unlock race only for a lower price I would do that
That would also work , if they HAVE to charge to unlock the race then it should be a $10 dollar unlock for just the race and the pack should include a mount or companion , doing it this way is a guaranteed way to stir up a big backlash .
The only problem is that they have already started selling the packs so even if they wanted to they couldn't change it because then the people who have already bought it would all carry on , personally I'm just glad the new race isn't OP , I'll just stick to making my Warlock a Teifling xD
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ministerofchangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2014
I also wouldn't be opposed to a lower price pack that unlocks the race. I would happily give $20 dollars for the unlock. Though like Iam said above and I said earlier in the thread, they have backed themselves into a corner if they offer the race another way those that spent the absurd amount of money on the pack will go ballistic! They should have announced the pack but not let it start to sell till next week so they could have seen the response to the plan and adjusted accordingly, since they didn't no matter what happens at this point it will become a mess. I just think they need to figure out which of the messes they are more willing to deal with. Alienating a large amount of the player base that will slowly spiral larger as the Mod gets closer to launch - or - anger the people that already got the pack (which if you threw in a few other things could be appeased easily). This will be very interesting to watch and will speak volumes to the future of this game and the company as a large.
Also they need to remember this is just one small venue for the people that are unhappy with the choices, other gaming sites/blogs are starting to talk about this situation and you should see the torches and pitchforks being gathered on those as we speak. Most of the people on this venue already play the game, the other venues are viewed by people who "Might" be interested in this game but are now having second thoughts since this situation has started trending.
Additionally: All countries within the European Union (The UK is in the European Union contrary to some beliefs) are subject to the VAT. As such prices reflect the conversion plus the VAT.
Eh, I would like to point out that the (higher) Euro price is also charged in countries in Europe that are NOT in the EU...can you give me a reason for that?
I find it absolutely absurd that players are demanding it to be free
You find it absurd that people want what's always been given to them to keep balance? Whenever a race has been released there's always been a free version released at some point similar to it.
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kaseicornMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2014
75 Dollars is ridiculous for that pack. They should just set up a subscription service instead of cash grabbing the small percentage of their player base that can just afford to drop that much money on a worthless pack. $10? $20? Understandable. $75? in no way worth it
The only problem is that they have already started selling the packs so even if they wanted to they couldn't change it because then the people who have already bought it would all carry on , personally I'm just glad the new race isn't OP , I'll just stick to making my Warlock a Teifling xD
Since the items are not actually granted till the 14th, its not to late for them to:
1) Declare $75 to be the permanent price rather then just a sale price.
2) Add more functional content to the pack to improve its value. Previous packs of this scale included an appropriate pet (I would think something like a recolored pseudodragon would be good here), a mount (I'm sure there is one in development that could be shifted to the purpose), an in-game/forum title (could be present but not listed), and some astral (though this is probably is not an option in any case here).
With the addition of a worthy mount and pet added to the existing content the pack would start to look more in line with a value of $75. And if they added to upcoming pack contents now, I highly doubt any of the early purchasers would object as they would be getting more stuff.
Since the items are not actually granted till the 14th, its not to late for them to:
1) Declare $75 to be the permanent price rather then just a sale price.
2) Add more functional content to the pack to improve its value. Previous packs of this scale included an appropriate pet (I would think something like a recolored pseudodragon would be good here), a mount (I'm sure there is one in development that could be shifted to the purpose), an in-game/forum title (could be present but not listed), and some astral (though this is probably is not an option in any case here).
With the addition of a worthy mount and pet added to the existing content the pack would start to look more in line with a value of $75. And if they added to upcoming pack contents now, I highly doubt any of the early purchasers would object as they would be getting more stuff.
I agree fully with this, I would probably buy it then, and if the price is not going to come down to 75$ they should make the bags for every character or something along those line
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
For the love of Gods, no more Astral Diamonds! Otherwise, yes, what you're saying makes a lot of sense... Although, I don't see them doing that. They are either too blind or to stubborn to admit what's going on.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
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thetrueazureMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited July 2014
Oh dear.
Well, tell you what. As someone who's a big fan of the Dragonborn race in the traditional pen-and-paper 4E (I'm playing one right now!), I was excited to see the announcement.
Then, I saw the price.
Examining the pack to see if it was still worth doing, I found that... no, it really sort of isn't. There isn't a value of 75 bucks in the pack, let alone 100.
Mind you, if the race became available on its own, without the needless embelishments of the pack, at 10-20 bucks? I'd buy it. There wouldn't be a second thought. I'd be hitting that 'confirm purchase' button right this second instead of typing this post and feeling pleased for it.
As it is, it essentially comes down to the race and a single 30-slot back for my 9-character account for 75/100 USD, and, well... I'm sorry, but I don't think it's worth that much. More or less all high-end games and expansion packs alone cost less than that. Charging that price for a race and a bag is... well. Exceedingly optimistic, I suppose.
As far as I'm concerned, without either majorly sprucing the pack up (less desired) or offering the race on its own with a more reasonable price (YES! PLEASE!), I will just have to live without it.
I'm sorry but I'm not gonna drop $75 (on sale) on a race and some enchants that I can buy later for AD. GG PW, you've come out with yet another overpriced in game pack that barely contributes to game play. Why not make a $20 pack like you di for when the HR came out? Give us another character slot, the race and maybe the bahamut cape or something like that in the pack.
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
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xavianstarsiderMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2014
I have bought a handful of packs from ARC including Knight of the Feywild and Hero of Neverwinter, ,and did so happily ,but I have to say that I do not see the value in this pack at all. While the race looks great, it's a TERRIBLE value compared to other packs. For $15-$40 more than Feywild, you get:
* No mount
* No companion
* No astral diamonds (usually you get 20% of the price of the pack in astral diamonds value. This pack SHOULD come with 1 million AD. Where are they?)
* A 30-slot bag (compared to a 24-slot bag) and so many trinkets to fill it with that you end up with less item slots added than Feywild gives you.
Also, two big problems with the dragonborn.
1) The Dragonborn race in D&D is most complimentary to the paladin class, which is not available in Neverwinter.
2) No mention of the Dragonborn's most iconic ability. The breath attack (which should be available as a racial-based encounter power). I'm assuming that if they could actually use a breath attack, it would have been mentioned somewhere.
And really, the fashion items are armor? Well gosh, now when I feel like relaxing I can take my armor off and put my armor on!
Actual value of pack. $40-$50 at best.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
If you all have any questions regarding Dragonborn lore and history in the Realms or even just in 4e in general, you may wish to check out the following source materials. As always, I'll be happy to answer any specific lore questions relating to the Realms' dragonborn or research an answer if I do not know. Just ask me in this linked thread!
I have my CC ready, you just gotta make it worth it Cryptic. $75 for that is very lackluster. Ridiculously so. You need to lower the price, almost in half, for that to be worth it. Or, add in several items. Epic mount, zen, etc.
Cryptic, please, I want to pay you guys for your work on making this race. It takes $$ to design the race, artifact, gear, etc. But I am not going to let you abuse me. Make it $35 for that package, or add in a TON of stuff, or else you are losing money from me. Which is a shame, since you already put in the cost.
Comments
I'm guessing they couldn't figure out how to arrange it on the interface as adding it would probably involve having to fill in an existing power slot, or require a specialized addition to the UI just for them. So they instead made it an artifact included in the pack, though really this is still replacing an existing slot. Maybe if it had been a reusable item for the potion slot (I always seem to have one slot just used to hold extra healing stacks)?
I was thinking this also, the only way they could do it is make it take up one of the encounter slot powers (which it pretty much does in 4e from what I have read).
If they had done it then they could have easily made that the difference between a pack version and a f2p version. If people want the breath weapon they buy the pack, anyone who doesn't want it can just use the f2p version. That would have brought it in similar line to the other pack races. From what I remember reading not all Dragonborn develop the breath weapon, so it would have stayed true to the concept and made a lot of us who want a f2p version of the race happy,
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
To my knowledge, all player character dragonborn had the breath weapon power, though there were some Dragon Magazine rules for playing Dragonlance Draconians using Dragonborn rules that gave you the option to swap the power for Concussive Vengeance (Bozak) or Caustic Heritage (Kapak). There were also some feats like Dragonborn Channeling that would let you expend your breath attack to do something cool, but you could still elect to breath instead.
Negative feedback is fine but please be respectful while doing so. No need to insult the companies or developers.
Additionally: All countries within the European Union (The UK is in the European Union contrary to some beliefs) are subject to the VAT. As such prices reflect the conversion plus the VAT.
-Ambisinisterr
USD/Sterling Exchange Rate
UK Full Price = £58.84, UK Sale Price = £44.13
€uro/Sterling Exchange Rate
UK Full Price = £75.29, UK Sale Price = £56.47
But they will only sell things to the UK in €uro, so it's £75 or £56.
Forget it.
I will never buy this pack, even if the UK Full Price was £44.00 and the Sale Price had ANOTHER 25% off at £33.00
I bought the Knight of the Feywild pack from Steam for £30, after carefully weighing up the value of the New Character Slot, the Account-Wide New Race, the Account-Wide Unicorn Mount, the Account-Wide Epic Companion, the 600k AD, the Fashion Pack and all the other little things. It is now £44 on Steam, and so no longer worth the money. I would not buy it now, but I did buy it for £30.
The Feywild pack appears to be far better value than the Dragonborn. Not for the Moon Elf race, but for the Mount and other stuff. I did not use the race as Neverwinter Elves = meh.
Is the Dragonborn race REALLY worth 2.5 times the cash, with no mount, no companion etc?
Knight of the Feywild Pack
Extra Character Slot
Worth 250 Zen.
Moon Elf Race
Meh - OK if you like Elves, but a Sun Elf may have better racials.
"Knight of the Feywild" Title
Meh - Absolutely worthless to me.
600,000 Astral Diamonds
One time per account, worth 1400 to 1500 Zen at the time. Useful for Character Slots, Enchanted Keys, Retraining Tokens or just buying stuff from the AH.
Adventurer's Helper Pack
One per account, Worth 2000 Zen, on Sale at the time for 1125 Zen
5 Scrolls of Mass Life - Auctioned for 7500 AD each
1 Healing Stone with 200 uses - Auctioned for 100,000 AD
So I got 137,000 AD, minus the 13,700 AH fee, plus the 600,000 AD = 723,750 AD (1700-1800 Zen's worth at the time)
Moonsilver Regalia Clothing
Meh - looks OK on females, once dyed with Cleric colours, but my Dwarf looked decidedly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> until I dyed it black.
Value? Wedding Attire sells for 2000 Zen, Courtesan outfits 1000 Zen. Both look better to me
Dawn Unicorn 110% Epic Mount
Worth 3000 to 4000 Zen compared with other mounts, although, I do wish it looked a little less like a Shire horse with a horn - it is not delicate or ethereal enough.
Sylph Epic Offensive Companion
Worth 2500 Zen compared with Galeb Duhr and Will o' Wisp
Active Bonus = +50% Control Resistance Bonus
Loamweave Enchantment
Difficult to assess Value as they are not at AH or for sale separately for Zen.
Cannot be Refined or Upgraded, but scale with your level.
Stone of Earth
Meh - OK for low level characters with no Amulet, Necklace or Cloak.
So the total Zen value as far as I can tell was roughly 12,000 Zen.
Apparently, the Dragonborn pack completely lacks most of these things for 2.5x the price? No mount? No companion?
The only thing worth trying in Dragonborn for me is the race, for a Warlock or Cleric, but it simply is not worth the £56 Sale Price, and absolutely never worth the £75 Full price. I'd prefer to spend the money on Zen for Coalescent Wards and Keys, but only in a Sale.
I already have an Account-Wide Unicorn and an Account-Wide White Tiger and the only races I have used for my 12 characters are Dwarf, Tiefling, Halfling and one Wood Elf Ranger who is a Leadership Mule.
I have two empty character Slots. One will be used for a Warlock, but none will be used for a Dragonborn unless they massively restructure their pricing policy.
~
At-Will: 2, 3 if PHB human
Encounter: 3
Daily: 3
Utility: 5
After you get the first three Encounters/Dailies you start having to retrain when you get a new power level. (You can take a lower-level power if you want.)
Paragon Paths give one each of encounter/daily/utility, but these are fixed. Your Epic Destiny will generally give you another utility power as well.
Utility powers can be at-will, encounter, or daily, for that matter. They're also not attack powers, as evidenced by the name. Teleports, extra effects, defense boosters, that sort of thing.
Racial powers tend to be Encounters where they exist; not all races have a racial power.
(Here's a sample high-level character sheet for a level 21 hybrid Cavalier|Warlock; you have a lot you can do, but most of it isn't actually attacking: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=467654)
Bottom line: The price as it stands is way to high to make it worth getting especially with what is included in the pack. As such it is alienating a large amount of the player base, this number will only increase as the module gets closer and more people become aware of the situation. I will stick by one thing I said earlier, it goes against one of the things the devs said during beta, that we would never have to pay for any content that is more then cosmetic or convenience. Some people might argue that the new race is simply cosmetic, but the fact it has one of the best stat bonuses that would benefit every class in the game, and that there is no other way for us to get it, makes it more then just cosmetic in my opinion.
I happily bought the Feywild and guardian packs, they were only 60.00 and had a lot of great stuff in it that I still enjoy having on new characters today. I didn't get The HR pack because it didn't have anything I wanted in it, but the price reflected it correctly. Most of the junk in this pack besides the race has no real use. I have enough cosmetic outfits, I already have 7 artifacts on each toon (8 once I get my warlock to 60), already have several Zvim sets available for new characters so the equipment isn't much use, the Dragon Overcharge slots are available in game via the campaign, there is no cool pet or mount, the race change token will be in the zen store, there is really nothing worth while in the pack besides the race to me, and its $15 more then either of the packs I got and that's the SALE price. I don't know who put this pack together and gave it its price point, but they sorely dropped the ball.
I don't blame Cryptic for this, they have no control over it, put PWE is showing its true colors, and people are really starting to notice it!
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I'm not impressed. The pack isn't a good value, and it's so far as we know the only way to ever get access to the race. This is very lame.
I bought the Feywild pack willingly and cheerfully because not only did I find most of the contents desirable, I found it to be a good deal. Closest equivalent mount? 40 bucks. A single purple companion? 25 bucks. That's 65 bucks right there, but the pack was 59.99. And hey, I get that purple companion on all my chars. And a fashion set all my chars can use. And cool, I can make a moon elf, I like their coloring and they even threw in a character slot so I don't have to buy more. And hey cool, 600k AD, that's 12 bucks worth at the exchange rate. But mostly the utility of the 110% mount and the account-wide, useful companion. If I had merely claimed just the dawn unicorn and the Sylph on a single character and never touched other characters or even the AD, that would have been a fair value. That I did use that AD, and use the mount and companion on all ten of my characters, and the fashion set on most... Yeah, I don't feel like I got ripped off on that versus buying other stuff. The value is there.
The dragonborn pack, though, I don't get value from, personally. Even assuming I want the race(I don't, but let's assume I do), the other items just don't offer the value. Account-wide green artifact? Uh, I guess that's nice, but I have four of those already and only don't have six because I'm too lazy to get my HR and GF the third DR boon because I don't really like playing either and don't care about their artifacts much anyway. Too much of it seems to be single-claim or worse, consumable. Ew?
It just falls flat to me.
^ this ^ is exactly it - as I said above right now its a large number of forum goers and some people in game already unhappy about it, when the general populace realizes there is no other way to get the race the anger we have seen so far will be minor compared to the overall reaction.
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Plus 20% VAT = £70.61
But yeah, you're right about it being overpriced.
And while I personally couldn't care less about the Dragonborn, I'm afraid it's the start of a disheartening trend, which at one point will affect something I do care about, say if they introduced the Aasimar, Avariel, Genasi or Fei'Ri races only as a part of insanely overpriced packs, or even worse, if new classes are put behind a paywall as well.
So yes, put me in the unhappy players column, and I do hope this is just an unfortunate one time blip rather than a sign of things to come.
and i still find it baffling why they spend time to make green mounts when they have not looked at the upgrade costs.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
That would also work , if they HAVE to charge to unlock the race then it should be a $10 dollar unlock for just the race and the pack should include a mount or companion , doing it this way is a guaranteed way to stir up a big backlash .
The only problem is that they have already started selling the packs so even if they wanted to they couldn't change it because then the people who have already bought it would all carry on , personally I'm just glad the new race isn't OP , I'll just stick to making my Warlock a Teifling xD
Also they need to remember this is just one small venue for the people that are unhappy with the choices, other gaming sites/blogs are starting to talk about this situation and you should see the torches and pitchforks being gathered on those as we speak. Most of the people on this venue already play the game, the other venues are viewed by people who "Might" be interested in this game but are now having second thoughts since this situation has started trending.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Eh, I would like to point out that the (higher) Euro price is also charged in countries in Europe that are NOT in the EU...can you give me a reason for that?
You find it absurd that people want what's always been given to them to keep balance? Whenever a race has been released there's always been a free version released at some point similar to it.
Since the items are not actually granted till the 14th, its not to late for them to:
1) Declare $75 to be the permanent price rather then just a sale price.
2) Add more functional content to the pack to improve its value. Previous packs of this scale included an appropriate pet (I would think something like a recolored pseudodragon would be good here), a mount (I'm sure there is one in development that could be shifted to the purpose), an in-game/forum title (could be present but not listed), and some astral (though this is probably is not an option in any case here).
With the addition of a worthy mount and pet added to the existing content the pack would start to look more in line with a value of $75. And if they added to upcoming pack contents now, I highly doubt any of the early purchasers would object as they would be getting more stuff.
I agree fully with this, I would probably buy it then, and if the price is not going to come down to 75$ they should make the bags for every character or something along those line
Well, tell you what. As someone who's a big fan of the Dragonborn race in the traditional pen-and-paper 4E (I'm playing one right now!), I was excited to see the announcement.
Then, I saw the price.
Examining the pack to see if it was still worth doing, I found that... no, it really sort of isn't. There isn't a value of 75 bucks in the pack, let alone 100.
Mind you, if the race became available on its own, without the needless embelishments of the pack, at 10-20 bucks? I'd buy it. There wouldn't be a second thought. I'd be hitting that 'confirm purchase' button right this second instead of typing this post and feeling pleased for it.
As it is, it essentially comes down to the race and a single 30-slot back for my 9-character account for 75/100 USD, and, well... I'm sorry, but I don't think it's worth that much.
As far as I'm concerned, without either majorly sprucing the pack up (less desired) or offering the race on its own with a more reasonable price (YES! PLEASE!), I will just have to live without it.
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf
Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf
Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling
Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf
Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow
Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
* No mount
* No companion
* No astral diamonds (usually you get 20% of the price of the pack in astral diamonds value. This pack SHOULD come with 1 million AD. Where are they?)
* A 30-slot bag (compared to a 24-slot bag) and so many trinkets to fill it with that you end up with less item slots added than Feywild gives you.
Also, two big problems with the dragonborn.
1) The Dragonborn race in D&D is most complimentary to the paladin class, which is not available in Neverwinter.
2) No mention of the Dragonborn's most iconic ability. The breath attack (which should be available as a racial-based encounter power). I'm assuming that if they could actually use a breath attack, it would have been mentioned somewhere.
And really, the fashion items are armor? Well gosh, now when I feel like relaxing I can take my armor off and put my armor on!
Actual value of pack. $40-$50 at best.
Source Material Suggestions:
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Cryptic, please, I want to pay you guys for your work on making this race. It takes $$ to design the race, artifact, gear, etc. But I am not going to let you abuse me. Make it $35 for that package, or add in a TON of stuff, or else you are losing money from me. Which is a shame, since you already put in the cost.