The changes to KV and KC, if they work, gives the GF many choices he can use for encounters in different situations. Chrushing Surge will allow the GF to do decent single target damage and add survivability. It is appreciated that our feedback is being recognized. My only question is without changes to overall survivability are GF meant to be boss tanks(single target) and not general tanks (multiple targets) since we do not have the tools to do so? We have threat, with the changes we will have group utility, single target damage, but will not have defenses to compensate for the massive threat we will be able to produce against multiple mobs. As pointed out in several posts we have defense and deflect stats galore, but lack the feats/class features to match the other classes. I do not see this being a problem against single targets though.
SW is here even if they nerf SW he have good brust heal also make more option to make DC more part of healer then debuffer.
GF is not alone .
The changes to KV and KC, if they work, gives the GF many choices he can use for encounters in different situations. Chrushing Surge will allow the GF to do decent single target damage and add survivability. It is appreciated that our feedback is being recognized. My only question is without changes to overall survivability are GF meant to be boss tanks(single target) and not general tanks (multiple targets) since we do not have the tools to do so? We have threat, with the changes we will have group utility, single target damage, but will not have defenses to compensate for the massive threat we will be able to produce against multiple mobs. As pointed out in several posts we have defense and deflect stats galore, but lack the feats/class features to match the other classes. I do not see this being a problem against single targets though.
This is exactly why IMO AC should be buffed for GFs... Even once block is fixed, it is a duration thing and we cant attack while in block...
Id REALLY encourage Crush to look at the tankiness BOTH inside and outside block. It seems the block function will work (once fixed) however once a GF is controlled or out of block, other classes have much better survival mechanics.
If AC was beefed up for GFs, this alone could help compensate. Then with massive HP pools we have now, and a nice DR increase. Shield would be icing on the cake rather than the cake itself....
Buff all GF weapon damage by 20%, remove "mark" from tab, and place Knights Valor on Tab as the Class feature...
GFs will then have decent weapon damage (basically weapon+mark damage). A really good class mechanic now (Knights valor) which opens up the ability to slot other abilities LIKE "Enforced Threat" - an AOE mark into the encounter bar. It always seemed to me that Knights Valor would make the perfect "tab" for a GF.
If you do this, "temporary marks" - like Threat Rush/Enforced Threat etc should last a fixed duration - instead of being removed when hit.
Knights Valor on tab ? thats only for pve players, then pvp players would have even less....
all changes should be for both so all players are happy.
Knights Valor on tab ? thats only for pve players, then pvp players would have even less....
all changes should be for both so all players are happy.
If you get mark "built in" to your weapon damage, by increasing all weapon damage (so Formorian MH top end would just from 671 to 805)
Then youd ALWAYS have "mark" up, which would enable you to have Knights Valor on Tab for free. This opens up an encounter slot for you to use anything....
Basically gives you Mark + 4 encounters... Which BTW sounds OP but in reality, its not
If you get mark "built in" to your weapon damage, by increasing all weapon damage (so Formorian MH top end would just from 671 to 805)
Then youd ALWAYS have "mark" up, which would enable you to have Knights Valor on Tab for free. This opens up an encounter slot for you to use anything....
Basically gives you Mark + 4 encounters... Which BTW sounds OP but in reality, its not
Im happy with the extra dmg sure but all i do is pvp, i dont really enjoy the pve content so for me i would never have a tab
Knights valor just isnt that useful in pvp, i would like the change if it was something like into the frey or iron warrior even if they was buffed a little too
you just kinda took away the risk to knights challenge please change it back
the risk is still there and this fixes the problem of it becoming unusable in the first place. Also you were able to disable it once in use so it only has a higher up time just the recharge rate may need an increase to 2 or 3 seconds.
1) CON = ADDED 1% ARP per point. Keep AP gain and HP.
DEX = 1% Deflection per point. .5% CRIT added per point.
2) Boost the effectiveness of AC ALOT. Instead of 2 AC = 1%DR, maybe 3AC = 2% DR. This would be a 50% increase in AC/DR meaning most GFs would gain about 15% DR?
3) TACTICAL SUPERIORITY - Now grants 1/2/3/4/5% More Crit when Combat Superiority is slotted ONTOP of the 1/2/3/4/5% dmg boost. (This seems STILL lackluster for a T4 feat btw but acceptable
4) RECKLESS ATTACKER Now grants 3 stacks @ 10% damage boost - applied by the GF's attacks. Lasts 10 seconds.
Just want to re-post this because I think everyone in this thread agrees with these changes... This is pretty needed...
Have not tested, but very much in approval. This can make GF really really useful in Dungeons.
I have to ask, how does any of this make GF more useful in dungeons?
Knight's Valor is not needed, period. It's nice to have, yes, but not needed. I have never ever used Knight's Valor in dungeon, except when fighting Valindra, because:
a. Mobs should already be targeting me.
b. If CWs can lock down adds indefinitely, what do you need KV for?
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I have to ask, how does any of this make GF more useful in dungeons?
Knight's Valor is not needed, period. It's nice to have, yes, but not needed. I have never ever used Knight's Valor in dungeon, except when fighting Valindra, because:
a. Mobs should already be targeting me.
b. If CWs can lock down adds indefinitely, what do you need KV for?
Well because aoes will still affect all other melee classes even if they are attacking from the back and its hard to dodge all red.
The new changes are nice, Gf will be wanted more in pve now but i wish we would get a buff for pvp too. We still don't compare with most other classes and the change to CS isn't much because its too slow, there isn't many situations in pvp at all where you would get all 3 hits in, unless your fighting a gwf or another gf and you stand there using it but then you would just get proned and killed anyway.
Prone Wars is coming to an end as most classes will only have one each for encounters and another for a daily so the prone fest will be less of an issue but this is my opinion and is something the devs are trying to get away from since it nullifies deflect while you are prone.
"OP" and GF havent been used together in a sentence for quite some time, maybe its due.
I get where you're coming from man, and I really want to agree. BUT! If it's OP the masses will whine, the Devs will over nerf it making us useless again, and they will not have the time to fix it because they will be busy with warlock. The end result will be everyone shelfs their GF again until 3-4 modules later when it gets looked at.
Im happy with the extra dmg sure but all i do is pvp, i dont really enjoy the pve content so for me i would never have a tab
Knights valor just isnt that useful in pvp, i would like the change if it was something like into the frey or iron warrior even if they was buffed a little too
Maybe Knights Valor or Iron Warrior, Into the Fray? IW/ IF would be great in pvp!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited July 2014
The last announced changes are very good.
Incidentally, it also makes prot better because now it gives a "permanent" (more or less) 5% additional DR with the Brawling Warrior feat.
The thing now is to test how this works with the synergy of Guarded Assault+Distracting Shield+Iron Guard. If Guarded Assault damage is reflected to whoever hits your ally and it procs the other two effects, we are potentially looking at a GF that can slap a -25% damage dealt on everything on the field. (both PvP and PvE)
This is pretty ironic - I played GF since the start of open beta and allthough it was a weak class, it was fun and I never abandoned my GF. And now that we get huge buffs, this stamina-guard gets introduced and because of it, it is no more fun to play GF for me, it just doesn't feel right. I will switch to a different class if the stamina-guard goes live, no matter how strong the buffs are.
Well, this isn't over until it is over. Gentlemancrush, please don't make the stamina-guard go live, it was pushed by a vocal, well connected pvp-focused minority, comes with many problems and just destroys the spirit of the GF class.
your still on the guard thing well i hate to break it to you but it's here to stay so you either have 2 options
switch characters to something else orrrrrr embrace it and learn how to use it effectively.
im currently waiting till the DR/Deflect bugs on guard are fix to do more proper testing hopefully this gets fixed in the new update it's been 2 weeks now since the last we have heard that it should be fixed & that it is not WAI but no word on when and since i see alot of posts by crush im hopeing for a confirmation on when it's suppose to go in he said 2 weeks ago but it has been delayed which looks like 2 updates now.
The last announced changes are very good.
Incidentally, it also makes prot better because now it gives a "permanent" (more or less) 5% additional DR with the Brawling Warrior feat.
The thing now is to test how this works with the synergy of Guarded Assault+Distracting Shield+Iron Guard. If Guarded Assault damage is reflected to whoever hits your ally and it procs the other two effects, we are potentially looking at a GF that can slap a -25% damage dealt on everything on the field. (both PvP and PvE)
I wish they would buff Guarded Assault! Its so bad... I mean you take 10,000 damage it reflects 300? really? Thats really bad! It should start 3% - 6% - 9% or even 4% - 8% - 12% 1200 damage reflected from 10,000 is still pretty low but at least its acceptable.
It should also reflect the damage it took, so TRs in perma would have a counter to their Bile bombing!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
arent we exaggerating a bit? the damage buffs are way to high in pvp on a toon with over 50k hp
Judging by your signature... You can just dodge 6 times, which can be considered OP, because the HR is not a tank and shouldn't have such a high survivability, at all. TR can pop stealth and do whatever they may be doing, in the shadows...
arent we exaggerating a bit? the damage buffs are way to high in pvp on a toon with over 50k hp
dont know where you got 50k hp from maybe your thinking of GWF lol but hey it's cool for them to have that much dmg right? even with the new 4% and a high con and rank 8 radiants on preview i just hit 40k maybe if i had rank 10's i could hit 45-46k but whos exagerating now.
the numbers may seem high but in actuality in the game they are not super dmg omg because GF's weapon damage is so low thus making our encounters lower on the damage scale. written down yes it looks like they will destroy but in game it's not a gigantic increase like it would appear.
that being said im looking forward to this yes those skills needed to be reworked/buffed they just lagged behind so much and this is great finally we have a spot in groups.
My Conqueror GF has 48.4% DR in DPS set, 47.8% DR in Knight Captain set
Add 15% to that from the Armor Specialization feat which is not reflected on the character sheet, making that 55.66% and 54.97% respectively.
So me using Intro the Fray buffs my party's damage (including my own apparently) by 55%.
If I use Knight Captain, I buff my party's damage (but not my own) additionally by ~6% (25% power)
As my GF (~9.4k power is rank 7s and green companions) is fully damage specced with high defense, I also contribute a fair amount of damage already to the group and do not require a cleric because of how powerful Fighter's Recovery daily power is (and Lifesteal on top).
So rather than a group being say 2 GWF / 3 CW, it will now be 2 GWF / 2 CW / 1 GF for example and overall dealing more damage than in mod 3 at present, as GWF is not losing any damage in mod4 (swordmasters anyway) and CW damage is only slightly decreased.
My feeling was that in mod 3, damage output generally is already too high due to buff/debuff stacking, and I don't see how this is being addressed at all in mod4.
If anything, players are just going to get even more powerful than before and PvE content ever more trivial.
What I would like to see is something to combat all the buffs to players so that content becomes challenging again, but not a DPS race to survive (such as in Valindra's Tower or Temple of the Spider)
Why would you want old content to be challenging again? That makes no sense? New mod's should come out to make you more powerful, to meet new, more powerful challenges. Old stuff should get easier, you should outgear it. Nobody complained when PoP came out in EQ and suddenly Luclin or Velious was too easy... it is supposed to be. You need to grow your character and get more powerful or what is the point?
Now I agree, they need more, and harder, new content. But if damage is too high in mod3 for BETA content, I sure don't want mod4 to make old content harder for me? How is that progression? "Instead of making new content, we are just going to nerf everyone so the old stuff is hard again..."
No thanks. Sorry if I sound disrespectful, but I would be upset if a new mod came out and I am not more powerful from it.
I just wanna ask i have GF too i made it in beta(you can chek this if y want ) ,but i see devs over buffing CW/HR/GF .
Yesterday i was thinking the game will be balanced but now i am not soo sure .
I think this is too much if y do this after mod 4 all will ask nerf GF and i dont want this .
The KV change was cool but i think this will lead to total extinction of GWFs.
Give much lower bonuses pls .
I dont think all GF palying ppl agree with this change .
I want to play GF but if you owerbuff it and nerf it agan i dont think i will never spend money on this game .
First you eliminated Stalvart i lost 70mill AD and this was in mod 1 where rank 8 echants was much more worth.
Then i maked GWF. Nerfed it buffed it nerfed it buffed it and finaly maked GWF not desire for me agan i lost here more then 200kk .
But if i spend some money now agan for my GF, and you will turn it back to garbage agan i am not sure this is the game for me.
I dont have Dagobert Duck at home.
What ? we only give people a 50% dmg buff for 8 seconds when GWF can hit 10x harder than us. In pvp they can hit 20-30k dmg when gf can hit max around 15k ? and they have about double our survivability so they are still stronger but now we bring something to the group so we are wanted more for pve. This is a good buff for us and no one should want a nerf unless they are doing it just to annoy gf players.
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It is still a huge pvp nerf to an already weak class.
I have no idea what you are talking about... I play CW and HR in PvP and I have often more problems with GFs than with GWFs in the current state of mod3. A well played GF is an extremely difficult opponent, often the only option I have is to kite around or to run away (which is also not possible for CW).
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Like I mentioned before, these buffs will help GWF's. If you make a GF equalish to a GWF in how desirable they are in dung's you have to nerf GWF survivability or buff GF damage. Then you just end up with copies. This makes GF clearly a better tanking option, and GWF clearly a better DPS option. The option to dps as a GF, or tank as a GWF is still there, and has a lot of room especially in PVP, but at its core, the GF is a tank, and the GWF is a DPS class.
This wasn't clear for a long time, but now it is crystal clear the intent.
umm how so please enlighten us to how it's crystal clear GWf still have more DR/Deflect than GF's and can still hit harder
only thing we got is more group utility it's not crystal clear at all GWF is a striker class it should play the roll as a striker class and should have lower DR than it's plate wearing brothers, same thing with HR's but hey they actually did tweak aspect of the lone wolf which is fantastic because +25% DR is absurd for a leather wearing class
Comments
SW is here even if they nerf SW he have good brust heal also make more option to make DC more part of healer then debuffer.
GF is not alone
This is exactly why IMO AC should be buffed for GFs... Even once block is fixed, it is a duration thing and we cant attack while in block...
Id REALLY encourage Crush to look at the tankiness BOTH inside and outside block. It seems the block function will work (once fixed) however once a GF is controlled or out of block, other classes have much better survival mechanics.
If AC was beefed up for GFs, this alone could help compensate. Then with massive HP pools we have now, and a nice DR increase. Shield would be icing on the cake rather than the cake itself....
Knights Valor on tab ? thats only for pve players, then pvp players would have even less....
all changes should be for both so all players are happy.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you get mark "built in" to your weapon damage, by increasing all weapon damage (so Formorian MH top end would just from 671 to 805)
Then youd ALWAYS have "mark" up, which would enable you to have Knights Valor on Tab for free. This opens up an encounter slot for you to use anything....
Basically gives you Mark + 4 encounters... Which BTW sounds OP but in reality, its not
Im happy with the extra dmg sure but all i do is pvp, i dont really enjoy the pve content so for me i would never have a tab
Knights valor just isnt that useful in pvp, i would like the change if it was something like into the frey or iron warrior even if they was buffed a little too
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The damage I will get from it now will be dramatic so it will be good for the more defensive builds out there also.
please use these discussion threads provided instead. Thanks!
We included each of these discussion threads as a link in the [ List ] sticky.
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if the animation remains so slow i doubt it CS will be such a major boost.
DPS=Damage per second.Not swing.I am 99% certain that cleave is faster.That means in a long run/dangeon cleave outperforms in damage even the new CS.
CS needs to be faster at least for aesthetic reasons!!!Now seems as bugged or broken.Or that you play with a Radeon 9600 or with tremendous lag...
the risk is still there and this fixes the problem of it becoming unusable in the first place. Also you were able to disable it once in use so it only has a higher up time just the recharge rate may need an increase to 2 or 3 seconds.
Just want to re-post this because I think everyone in this thread agrees with these changes... This is pretty needed...
I have to ask, how does any of this make GF more useful in dungeons?
Knight's Valor is not needed, period. It's nice to have, yes, but not needed. I have never ever used Knight's Valor in dungeon, except when fighting Valindra, because:
a. Mobs should already be targeting me.
b. If CWs can lock down adds indefinitely, what do you need KV for?
Well because aoes will still affect all other melee classes even if they are attacking from the back and its hard to dodge all red.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It already was, there was NO contest, it hit hard as hell! Now..... Lol w/e man keep em comeing!
Lol glad someone else saw that. This is gonna be OP as hell, the CS change was also unneeded but hay ILL TAKE IT!!!
"OP" and GF havent been used together in a sentence for quite some time, maybe its due.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I get where you're coming from man, and I really want to agree. BUT! If it's OP the masses will whine, the Devs will over nerf it making us useless again, and they will not have the time to fix it because they will be busy with warlock. The end result will be everyone shelfs their GF again until 3-4 modules later when it gets looked at.
These are merely bug fixes, pal. And they still haven't mentioned that KC cannot be interrupted by other players, anymore. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?685521-Long-standing-knight-s-challenge-bugs which also is just a bug and should be looked at
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Incidentally, it also makes prot better because now it gives a "permanent" (more or less) 5% additional DR with the Brawling Warrior feat.
The thing now is to test how this works with the synergy of Guarded Assault+Distracting Shield+Iron Guard. If Guarded Assault damage is reflected to whoever hits your ally and it procs the other two effects, we are potentially looking at a GF that can slap a -25% damage dealt on everything on the field. (both PvP and PvE)
your still on the guard thing well i hate to break it to you but it's here to stay so you either have 2 options
switch characters to something else orrrrrr embrace it and learn how to use it effectively.
im currently waiting till the DR/Deflect bugs on guard are fix to do more proper testing hopefully this gets fixed in the new update it's been 2 weeks now since the last we have heard that it should be fixed & that it is not WAI but no word on when and since i see alot of posts by crush im hopeing for a confirmation on when it's suppose to go in he said 2 weeks ago but it has been delayed which looks like 2 updates now.
I wish they would buff Guarded Assault! Its so bad... I mean you take 10,000 damage it reflects 300? really? Thats really bad! It should start 3% - 6% - 9% or even 4% - 8% - 12% 1200 damage reflected from 10,000 is still pretty low but at least its acceptable.
It should also reflect the damage it took, so TRs in perma would have a counter to their Bile bombing!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Judging by your signature... You can just dodge 6 times, which can be considered OP, because the HR is not a tank and shouldn't have such a high survivability, at all. TR can pop stealth and do whatever they may be doing, in the shadows...
dont know where you got 50k hp from maybe your thinking of GWF lol but hey it's cool for them to have that much dmg right? even with the new 4% and a high con and rank 8 radiants on preview i just hit 40k maybe if i had rank 10's i could hit 45-46k but whos exagerating now.
the numbers may seem high but in actuality in the game they are not super dmg omg because GF's weapon damage is so low thus making our encounters lower on the damage scale. written down yes it looks like they will destroy but in game it's not a gigantic increase like it would appear.
that being said im looking forward to this yes those skills needed to be reworked/buffed they just lagged behind so much and this is great finally we have a spot in groups.
Why would you want old content to be challenging again? That makes no sense? New mod's should come out to make you more powerful, to meet new, more powerful challenges. Old stuff should get easier, you should outgear it. Nobody complained when PoP came out in EQ and suddenly Luclin or Velious was too easy... it is supposed to be. You need to grow your character and get more powerful or what is the point?
Now I agree, they need more, and harder, new content. But if damage is too high in mod3 for BETA content, I sure don't want mod4 to make old content harder for me? How is that progression? "Instead of making new content, we are just going to nerf everyone so the old stuff is hard again..."
No thanks. Sorry if I sound disrespectful, but I would be upset if a new mod came out and I am not more powerful from it.
What ? we only give people a 50% dmg buff for 8 seconds when GWF can hit 10x harder than us. In pvp they can hit 20-30k dmg when gf can hit max around 15k ? and they have about double our survivability so they are still stronger but now we bring something to the group so we are wanted more for pve. This is a good buff for us and no one should want a nerf unless they are doing it just to annoy gf players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have no idea what you are talking about... I play CW and HR in PvP and I have often more problems with GFs than with GWFs in the current state of mod3. A well played GF is an extremely difficult opponent, often the only option I have is to kite around or to run away (which is also not possible for CW).
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
umm how so please enlighten us to how it's crystal clear GWf still have more DR/Deflect than GF's and can still hit harder
only thing we got is more group utility it's not crystal clear at all GWF is a striker class it should play the roll as a striker class and should have lower DR than it's plate wearing brothers, same thing with HR's but hey they actually did tweak aspect of the lone wolf which is fantastic because +25% DR is absurd for a leather wearing class