test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
Guardian Fighter Feedback - Discussions
lisaxxii
Member Posts: 207 Bounty Hunter
colonelwing wrote: »Mr. Gentlemancrush, can you remeber the "inofficial feedback threads" in which we gave you small hints on what could possibly be wrong with us GF? We do not need ~75% of the changes you provided in the lists.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?636721-So-what-is-going-to-be-done-about-guardian-fighters
Have you read any of our suggestions, at all?
They do listen, I think the problem is they look at everything mathematically. They have formulas and statistics that tell them what should work. That is GREAT, but I don't think they have a good concept of how abilities and feats and gear are actually used in game, especially PvP.
I honestly believe they are doing the best they can and they are working their asses off on this stuff. The problem arises when they don't know who to listen to, or in what situations to test certain things. They just don't have the time for that, and I understand... its still frustrating as hell though =\
Enemy Team
Post edited by lisaxxii on
0
Comments
Wow. Just. Wow.
/LFG Guardian Fighter
It is still a huge pvp nerf to an already weak class.
Tide of Iron: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Shield Talent: Now causes Block to drain Stamina more slowly
Enforced Threat: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Shield Slam: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Into the Fray: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes
Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 80% while active.
Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds)
With all this right here it sounds like i could tank quite alot an IBS or ice knife hit that would normally hit quite alot sounds like it would hit like kittens.
It also sounds like i’d be able to hold up guard for quite a while if i use these which i certainly do.
the fact that block - Reduces incoming damage by 80% while active.
means that skillful timed blocks can occur and you can block pretty much everything that can hurt you because 80% of 24k is basically nothing forget it if you have mitigation and tenacity meaning we are now actual tanks.
what this also means is that more builds will be more able to survive.
coupled with GWF nerf to unstoppable that being thier best trait it also means that people will need a tank they will need GFs which means they will need DCs also.
Because the GWF will no longer be a god that hp shields and heals to full because his dr isnt 80% unless he feats it.
and suddenly everyone needs each other again.
look at all the changes though to each class as a whole and it does kind of make sense in a sort of convoluted way.
Enforced threat is also very nice the cap increase means weapon enchants will go on more targets more ability to hit more targets as aoe on the GF is the most lacking of any class besides DCs and this will rectify (some) of it combined with the scattering of lunging and front line surge it will be much nicer and we can also attract an entire room with ease.
Exactly!
YUP!!
You don't see the big picture, until 4CW/1DC parties hit you on the head with the reality check - hammer when mod4 "hits".
---
Besides, this game isn't just PvE against mindless NPC's. In PvP us GF are already underpowered enough.
4 cws might not be able to do that anymore
singularity only affects 8.
and thier feat trees look brand new.
we'll just have to see.
But alot of these changes doesnt seem nessecary. The problems GF's have are thier ability to damage, thier mobility and thier guarding. This fixes thier guarding a bit. But what this also does is ruin any chance for an additional guardian fighter to be in a party for anything.
The static damage reductions on the marks was able to be applied to more monsters, and the 2nd GF didnt nessecarily need to take, but could fulfill other roles too seperate from the first GF or work with the first GF. Now there doesnt seem to be much synergy. And the combat advantage bonus of marked targets... Why? If the targets are marked AND taunted, any class attacking them will have combat advantage already.
Nothing seems to do much for GF's in pvp but make them a slow moving target dummy. Smart people will just ignore GF's in pvp.
The key problem with the iron vanguard gaurdian path and its abilities is not with the GF but with the GWF. All the abilities work exactly the same with them, giving them mobility to a class that already has the most mobility in the game. It was a mistake giving them the carbon copy of the abilities with Iron Vanguard. It should have been slightly altered to fit GWF's but still remain functionally the same. So any changes to Iron Vanguard would not hurt GF.
While on the flip side, Swordmaster doesnt do anything. Nothing at all for GF's that iron vanguard doesnt already do. While the GWF's get soem usefulness out of the abilities because of thier base damage, the damage from Swordmaster is so negiliable because the powers are working thinking its using base damage of a GWF that a GF does not have. the only usefulness out of swordmaster for a GF is the feature that gives immunity during daily for 5 seconds. And thats it. Swordmaster too should be adjusted to fit the GF to work similar in function but be different in an alternate way for GF's that differs from GWFs (the class that benefits from this path more because of thier natural mobility).
We can't teleport, slide, not even sprint, it is, beside lunging the only mobility a GF actually has.
We have to walk across the battlefield, don't forget this.
So either seperate GF IV from GWF IV.
Or, if this not possible, take it away from GWFs and leave it to us. I mean, this originally is our paragon!
And our paragon is consistently nerfed due to another class, guess it is understandable that this feels pretty annoying. (Disclaimer: I play both classes, but I absolutely vote for treating IV as a GF paragon in the first place).
Same almost for fls, it was fine as it was for GFs. So for this power, too, make different calculations for both classes or give it back to GFs.
And as an additional suggestion, I'd really like to make more use of the shield. Not only for blocking.
Historically, this is neither the way shields were used, they were weapons, not only defensive items. You hit your enemie with it and crushed his bones or even killed him with a demolishing blow.
So I really would like to see some shield attacks and also grant our shields some offensive/damage stats. They've earnt it due to their historical use.
And, as a side effect, this also could solve the too low dps problem a bit.
We'll see how it plays out.
I absolutely disagree with this.
I always have TR slotted in PvE. It's not only a short-range gap closer, it also marks enemies and applies debuffs from weapon enchants to several enemies. Also, using both enforced threat and TR, you have more uptime of marks = longer duration of said debuffs. If you want so, it's a debuff application tool in the first place.
It's absolutely useful, not to say great, in PvE.
I bet the majority of players never/rarely plays PvP, so please let this game be mostly about PvE.
that is a false generalization.
But what these changes do seem to do, is funneling down playstyles.
For instance, now almost every GF will seem to have to slot Enforced Threat now since its the only skill ingame pretty much that affects that many targets at once.
Threatening rush has many applications to pve and pvp. People need to stop generalizing skills to only one application, or the only application they themselves use it for. there isnt a one way to use everything, and thinking that funnels many other playstyles.
BottomLine TR nerf is unwanted - we got hit because of GWF using our paragon and people are complaining about the GW threat rush but didn't consider that this was our original power to begin with and it was designed specifically for us because we lack mobility, now they are trying to limit this.
Fronline surge - again this was our original ability, it got nerf by less 25% damage but increase the target cap by 5. now they are doing it again and making the FLS stun intead of prone, why you ask? because of the GWF.
Iron Vanguard - i would suggest to keep IV of both GWF and GF seperate - let us keep the Prone of FLS and the original Threat Rush - you can do whatever you want with the GWF - they have an excellent mobility and high base damage than us i care less about them (excuse me for being harsh about GWF)
in conclusion: all this unwanted toned down from our powers was originally because of the paragon switch and GWF abusing it.
Leave the GF alone, change the GWF's powers and feats. A change in the content of your dungeons is the best fix the devs could do to fix the game.
-Cleave: Hit box increased to 180 degrees and the third hit should do double the damage that it does now.
-Tide of Iron: Swing animation time decreased and allow encounter powers to interrupt the swing animation like cleave. Needs to do more dps on a single target then cleave does.
I feel like this would give GFs more variety in their at wills, as cleave would clearly be the best for AOE DPS, and Tide of Iron would be the best for single target DPS. If the Guard Meter/Stamina Regen on Tide of Iron is too OP if these changes are implemented then just reduce how much stamina is gained per hit. Even if it's a tiny amount it's better then never using the ability at all. Currently Tide of Iron is too slow to be useful, and cleave is low dps even for full conq GFs and it's hitbox is too small. Please fix these issues and GFs will be in a good place.
HR is getting a buff to the archery tree. I understand why you'd forget we exist since we suck so much in PVE now, but as to who will kill them, that's your answer.
The whole Block on stamina was a terrible Idea, I said it when Ayroux first brought it up and now its implemented =\
It SOUNDS cool, and looks good on paper, but if you cannot pre-emptivly have your block up to deter certain encounters... whats the point of block?
Block needs to either be buffed in its current iteration on live, or reworked so it goes by damage and not per hit, have it act like a second HP bar.
There is a difference between block on stamina used properly and how it was actually implemented. If you noticed my math, I suggested a 5 second BASE duration, this allows players with many buffs to get it up to around 9 seconds max. This is long enough time to pre-emptively have your block up.
On PTR - I fully feated and geared and it was 5 seconds... absolutely pitiful. I still think it can work if done properly and was much better than love.
MY INITIAL idea I posted LONG LONG ago was your second part - have block have its own "pool" it protects. Along with that Idea my synergy to that idea was to have each shield have its own "pool" built into the actual item. So better shields have a better pool or bigger pool they block.
The question becomes how much is enough? Because in PVE it would be a MUCH different number than in PVP?
Overall I still REALLY like the stamina idea, however the duration needs a massive buff
another small tweak that could be easily implemented that has minor impacts is make block/stamina ONLY drain while in combat. So outisde of combat, it doesnt drain at all. This would help with some "pre-emptive" blocks.
Yeah Block has defiantly been nerfed, not buffed. Much more tweaking needed!
ORRRRRR Do the things that actually need to be done
Mate as much as i respect your opinion... go away with the timed gates in which we can block. Block as you have suggested it and the devs sadly are trying to implement makes the entire class feel dumbed down. I am wielding a shield, i have to be able to manually decide when to burn stamina and the only time that should be is when i am actually receiving damage. Not outside of combat.
---
If this goes live, it is the guaranteed death of the GF class.
and please, the GF has been dead for a while already...
We need to be able to use encounter powers while blocking, to refill said block/stamina meter - just like how TRs have multiple ways of refilling stealth without dropping out of it.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
---
I already knew, that something like the mess we have on PTS, is going to happen... as soon as i read the very first developer response from GMC regarding the "critical GF issues" (which apparently are > incoming DC healing/threat generation). When in reality we have other, more important issues plaguing us... where threat generation and incoming DC healing should have the lowest priority, on the list. (threat generation and aggro management weren't/aren't an issue in the first place, if specced properly.)
---
Infos, for those who care:
I am familiar with this "aggro/threat management" system for roughly 5 years by now. NW copied it, entirely (all of it's bugs inlcuded) from Champions online. In Champions online, after fiddling around with several tank builds my friends and i, aswell as others who tested it came to the simple conclusion that the best way of keeping actual aggro was a slight threat generation (either a passive or an active/spammable skill) along with a HIGH burst/spike damage. (this does the trick perfectly by the way and is exactly what us GF's are already capable of, in NW.)
Ehm, you will have a competent dc to keep you alive, no?
Ok, but it's not a bug, it's feedback, use the correct color! :P
A tank that deflects? Makes no sense. Also, Constitution raising deflection chance? Also makes no sense.
Sounds nice, but makes no sense.