I love how rather than fixing this class they are working on unnerfing the gwf to take back their ability to out tank and dps us.
If you are going to break this class more just don't touch it...
Also why is Scale as Strong as plate? I really want to know
Yeah I was happy when I heard that the gwf class was going to be a bit weaker so we would be balanced with them, now they just get buffed up again because all the gwf players cried about not being able to kill everyone 1 hit and not die anymore.
They have scale armor but have more DR than us
They carry a huge 2h sword but run and attack faster and somehow have more deflect than us even though we have a shield.
I was hoping in mod 4 the gwf and gf would be equals but in different ways but now they beat us at everything again.
With the latest preview update RA is no giving the correct damage boost and now the run speed while blocking has been corrected.
Yet, our Block still does not have a fix for block and even I get run over now while trying to block a bear rider charge....and the issue of guard break still being in the mechanics has not been addressed you cannot seriously expect to have the gf have a shield that is still the same as the old one and is now timed on top to boot. This is going in a bad direction at this point with under a month to go to mod 4 I am very concerned.
Short List
BLOCK: Guard break should be removed from block mechanics as it should not be there as it causes us to take full damage while blocking which makes this block even worse as we only can keep it up for a limited time now. Also the dr is still not doing the proper amounts as it still is only at 80% capped and once guard break happens we take more damage......
Seriously Can you address this fundamental issue or not cause I only see this becoming the most silly of classes with a shield with 2 weaknesses it still breaks(still the same as live block) and can only be held for a certain amount of time. This class IS (fixed for ya) an absolute joke if you do not rid the guard break mechanic nevermind the current dr bug.
whoa whoa whoa we want the current DR bug fixed as well holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they go hand in hand both are gamebreaking for this class careful they may actually ignore it.
ok we have a month left my money is on this never being fixed. and if it is it wont be well into mod 4 before it is(if ever) take this thread for example after a month of no response by the dev team all we got is them saying how RA should now work correctly and their big fix with the last update was run speed while blocking
they didnt actually fix the break the DR issues and other numerous bugs we have reported you know the actual important game breaking ones. but hey at least we have our runspeed normalized:rolleyes::
exactly my point but they have not even stated once the problem with guard break still being incorporated into the stamina guard at all and it is getting a bit long in the tooth for them to say anything about this problem.
Guard break means we still have a guard meter and is not 100% stamina based and lose all dr while blocking. This is worse than live as you cannot tell when guard breaks.....so you start taking full damage again this is not something I want at all and they are not even trying to say if it should be there or not which is what I am agitated about as if this is something we will have to live with at this point.
Saw a post that compiled a list of some bugs, wanted to help.
Also I wanted to add this:
When we use Supremacy of Steel or Guarded Assault and a HR use Thorn Ward , should we reflect some of the damage we received from the Thorn Ward to the HR or not?, Because currently we do not.
Holy cow! I was talking to HR's and they were laughing as they hit my SOS and it literally was healing them. That explains a lot!
Holy cow! I was talking to HR's and they were laughing as they hit my SOS and it literally was healing them. That explains a lot!
Well, it's only the damage that we receive from the Thorn Ward the damage that we are not reflecting, only that , but it was like this since I play in NWN and I've always had the doubt that it should be like that or not.
I guess maybe this is working as they want, they may consider that the Thorn Ward is something summoned by the HR and we shouldn't reflect his damage to the HR, but I'd rather be safe.
... Even proponents of the stamin-guard and the changes connected to this guard mechanism are now worried and express dissatisfaction because of the bugs that have come with the changes at the preview server. Mr. Gentlemancrush, please pull the emergency break, drop the idea of the stamina guard and changes connected to it, and let's simply improve our class by making existing things better rather than replacing them with something else.
...
Could you please stop to repeat again and again just destructive feedback and call for changes which got already dumped because of tests? You have not the possibilities like the developers have and you just keep filling this thread with senseless posts more and more.
It is the game of the developers, it is always their game and you like it or not; and if they are not able to do their job, we will see it in the future and laugh or enjoy the game.
Holy cow! I was talking to HR's and they were laughing as they hit my SOS and it literally was healing them. That explains a lot!
yeah using SOS while in thornward direct all reflected damage into the ward so essentially the HR does not get it.
think of it this way the thornward is like a mob thats there attacking you so all damage is reflected back to it instead of the hr.
pretty much sos doesnt work against thornward.
they didnt lower the runspeed that much it actually feels quite normal now but hey if you got high rank darks in your utility slot even better also profound armor helps.
Yeah for sure. I love the mobility. I love the increased duration. I love not having to worry about guard meter.
But for the love of what is good, I just can't wait for it to be fixed! Because only then are we going to see the true "tankiness" that we were supposed to get.
Block just has way to many bugs atm. Whatever they are doing is not working. The ability itself is clunky. Using what is suppose to be the main defense should not make a character more vulnerable, but does currently. It is not stopping enough damage to really notice a difference, doesnt allow for encounters to be used and the attacks available are slow that allow things to easily get behind you. Blocking in some cases LOWERS survivability because of these things.
If anything just making block give cc immunity and deflect all attacks while up would even be an upgrade, since that kindof what a shield does anyway. GF have low deflect so it would be a noticeable increase in survivability. Since having a shield up removes your ability to use any encounters, I do not even see why it breaks, especially since GF will still be taking damage blocking.
Having a shield block deflect could easily fix protector as well. Could just add x% deflect severity for capstone to make them more tanky.
Well it may suck right now, ok it does suck right now. But has been over a year since we have had anything done to our class that wasn't a nerf/gearscore nerf, absolutely laughable set bonus (good ones were also nerfed), did I say nerf?
So at LEAST some things are changing. That just means more things that will be broken. BUT - usually when something is bugged they take FOREVER to fix it. So, we could have some pretty cool bugs for once, like HR's and TR's and CW's and DC's have had for ages. So who knows, we'll just have to see how it goes you know?
I am really hopeful that the GF will receive some nice buffs that will eventually make the class more desirable overall. Since it is stated that the GF never will be a dps we should hope for additions that means both more damage and buffs that can help the group with survivability and dps which makes it more desirable in parties. I run a conq GF and have playedover a year. Most of the time it is really nice, however there are several instances were as GF, I can feel as the fifth wheel even with 16k gs and several t2 armor, weapon sets and enchants, compared to playing DC, CW or GWF. But I can’t help it I really like the GF.
My first concern is how reckless attacker has been changed. The latest change is still a dps loss if power has been stacked. I have 12636 power which gives me 76% damage bonus, and he is not maxed out. Without neglecting any other stat, most of them hit diminishing returns and armpen at 24%, contrary to what some ppl think is the result of stacking power. AT this moment I lose 5% damage and if i would continue to max out power i will lose 10% damage. However I think that detaching the feat from guard meter is very nice and the additional crit that has been added to it is more than welcome. My suggestion here would change the flat damage bonus from each stack to a added power percentage. So if the 3 stacks are to be kept they could each grant 33% power increase so that in the end we would get almost double the power again. But with the additional crit which is really nice so in the end maybe it isn’t such a big loss, but stacking power is the only thing that the GF could excel at except from agro generation so for me it seems as a regression.
The second thing is the guard meter. As it is now on the preview it makes the GF more vulnerable especially in pvp. Since the stamina starts depleting the moment u get ur shield up, makes it even harder to effectively defend against range attacks and cc. All the opponents have to do is wait for the stamina to get depleted. So I suggest the following. First divide the guard in 3 to 5 segments. Each segment should be assigned a certain amount of damage and cc protection. So the first segment should give 100% damage and cc and negative effects (as in plague fire) protection. When that one is depleted the second one should give 80% damage reduction, 90% cc and negative effects immunity. The third one should give even less say 50% damage and 70% cc immunity. Depending on the amount of segments each one gives less and less protection which would simulate getting tired in the shield arm from all the hits. Now each segment should last at least 4 or 5 seconds with the possibly to increase the time through feats. The most important part is that the timer should not commence automatically when the shield is lifted but when the shield receives its first hit. So u can keep the shield up without the stamina being depleted until it receives it first hit, which starts the timer based stamina drain for that segment. So each segment drain needs to be initiated by being hit.
The third part is about making the GF more versatile, a jack of all trades in a positive manner. The easiest way to do that is changing the class ability so it resembles the CW ability to slot a fourth encounter power with additional features. For example into the fray could give all party members an additional 10% damage resistance or AoD gives double damage when the target has 40% health instead of 25%. There are a lot of possibilities to add extra offensive and defensive capabilities which would make the GF more versatile.
We all have opinions on how to make the GF better and as Aethanas mentioned earlier this is in the developers game and ultimately their choice on how the end result will look like. The only thing we as players can offer is insight from our experiences and maybe something that will hopefully lead to a richer experience.
Lastly although I try to keep up on the forums, but if any of these ideas already have been posted pls let me know so I can give credit. And since this is my first post id like to thank for a good game and also thank all awesome ppl from legit channel that makes this experience even greater.
yes it is now 85% movement instead of 100% that was their huge update for us guard is still broken though.
-.- great so one of our buffs has been nerfed and the gwf nerf has been buffed plus they can just run forever and be cc immune the whole fight, cant wait for mod 4 now.
-.- great so one of our buffs has been nerfed and the gwf nerf has been buffed plus they can just run forever and be cc immune the whole fight, cant wait for mod 4 now.
yup it's like the devs decided to go back on everything they were trying to do, lol GWF have perma sprint and we have a guard that is so gamebreakingly broken. it's cool though at least now we all understand where GF's lie in the development circle
In mod 4 guardian fighters can follow people and be there companions maybe we could sell ourselfs for 2.5 gold, the same price as am common companion
I was actually liking the changes, we had many buffs and gwf became killable so it was a good balance but now its going back to the start again so we still don't have defense or offense.
pfft after all the re buffs to GWF i have no idea why any of us even play guardians really questioning this. hey lets have a broken block while GWF are cc immune like 100% of the time do to being able to sprint permanently+unstoppable good game guys looks like its roll GWF or go home.
I have always been against this but since we will never ever have as much survivability as the HR, TR or GWF then yeah we should have more dmg.
That would still be bad, a tanking class should excel at survivability and be able to win because of its survivability; but I am also too pessimistic that Cryptic will ever be releasing a working Guardian Fighter tank instead of a DPS/Tank hybrid like the Great Weapon Fighter is. The final act in this comedy would be if they released one day another tanking class which excels finally at survivability.
I know that there is no reason to expect the Guardian Fighter to be such a thing like this "tank" everyone talks about, but they already claimed that the Guardian Fighter is no DPS class but what is then the role of the Guardian? A controller? What is that? I can see traits of a controller in the Control Wizard class but if I called a Guardian Fighter a controller, I could call every class a controller. Anyway, the Guardian Fighter class could be some kind of anti-controller but it is farer away from that then from a controller. Alas, this all is a matter of interpretation.
That would still be bad, a tanking class should excel at survivability and be able to win because of its survivability; but I am also too pessimistic that Cryptic will ever be releasing a working Guardian Fighter tank instead of a DPS/Tank hybrid like the Great Weapon Fighter is. The final act in this comedy would be if they released one day another tanking class which excels finally at survivability.
I know that there is no reason to expect the Guardian Fighter to be such a thing like this "tank" everyone talks about, but they already claimed that the Guardian Fighter is no DPS class but what is then the role of the Guardian? A controller? What is that? I can see traits of a controller in the Control Wizard class but if I called a Guardian Fighter a controller, I could call every class a controller. Anyway, the Guardian Fighter class could be some kind of anti-controller but it is farer away from that then from a controller. Alas, this all is a matter of interpretation.
Thats just the problem, atm the guardian fighter has no role, we have the worst dmg and arguably the second worst survivability in the game. The gf will never have dps, ok I can accept that but why we have such terrible survival confuses me.
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I love how this rework was ment to make the GF better but instead now the class is super broken.
Instead of makeing this class 100% useless just leave it the way it is on live forget these class
breaking nerfs.... just place in the new 20 target enforced threat ontop of the current live GF
and well we would be far happyer than with the current preview one...
Anybody on the same train as me in the, I think our at-wills are WAY to slow? I have been working on my black ice gear, and doing a lot more PVE in live and on test, maybe even more than I did when I started. I have to get to these encounters WAY before everyone else, hope they show up and help clear lol, and hope I get enough threat, and do as many objectives as I can to have a shot. Our burst damage isn't terrible, but our AOE's hit pretty weak, and our cleave is just soooooo slow. Imagine if it was almost double, the damage was scaled, and we could use some other freaking wep enchants!!!!
Take Conan the Barbarian, mostly because no one is going to do it better than Arnold. He could swing it pretty fast right?
Then take Achilles... He had a shield, and fast as all get out. Now explain to me how that 6ft + sword, gets faster swings than a longsword, presumably 1/3 of it's weight?
- I know we have bigger fish to fry, but it'd be nice to use another weapon enchant, especially for PVE content, like getting more burns on plague, more lightning, etc... Currently we are so slow ,that only a few enchants really matter
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Yes our cleive is kind of slow due to the fact it isn't a giant blade like a GWFs. Its a much lighter weight blade too. If the speed of crushing serge was brought up to cleives speed and cleive made alittle faster that would be great.
Comments
Thats not the saying. It is: "The best defense is a good offense"
There is a reason for this being the actual expression
Did they seriously only fix the runspeed while blocking on preview?! Christ we can't even test anything because it is ALL broken....
Comeon man, throw us a bone... I mean.... *deep breath* *Log off Forums*
If you are going to break this class more just don't touch it...
Also why is Scale as Strong as plate? I really want to know
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Yeah I was happy when I heard that the gwf class was going to be a bit weaker so we would be balanced with them, now they just get buffed up again because all the gwf players cried about not being able to kill everyone 1 hit and not die anymore.
They have scale armor but have more DR than us
They carry a huge 2h sword but run and attack faster and somehow have more deflect than us even though we have a shield.
I was hoping in mod 4 the gwf and gf would be equals but in different ways but now they beat us at everything again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
whoa whoa whoa we want the current DR bug fixed as well holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they go hand in hand both are gamebreaking for this class careful they may actually ignore it.
ok we have a month left my money is on this never being fixed. and if it is it wont be well into mod 4 before it is(if ever) take this thread for example after a month of no response by the dev team all we got is them saying how RA should now work correctly and their big fix with the last update was run speed while blocking
they didnt actually fix the break the DR issues and other numerous bugs we have reported you know the actual important game breaking ones. but hey at least we have our runspeed normalized:rolleyes::
were going the way of the
exactly my point but they have not even stated once the problem with guard break still being incorporated into the stamina guard at all and it is getting a bit long in the tooth for them to say anything about this problem.
Guard break means we still have a guard meter and is not 100% stamina based and lose all dr while blocking. This is worse than live as you cannot tell when guard breaks.....so you start taking full damage again this is not something I want at all and they are not even trying to say if it should be there or not which is what I am agitated about as if this is something we will have to live with at this point.
Holy cow! I was talking to HR's and they were laughing as they hit my SOS and it literally was healing them. That explains a lot!
Well, it's only the damage that we receive from the Thorn Ward the damage that we are not reflecting, only that
I guess maybe this is working as they want, they may consider that the Thorn Ward is something summoned by the HR and we shouldn't reflect his damage to the HR, but I'd rather be safe.
Could you please stop to repeat again and again just destructive feedback and call for changes which got already dumped because of tests? You have not the possibilities like the developers have and you just keep filling this thread with senseless posts more and more.
It is the game of the developers, it is always their game and you like it or not; and if they are not able to do their job, we will see it in the future and laugh or enjoy the game.
yeah using SOS while in thornward direct all reflected damage into the ward so essentially the HR does not get it.
think of it this way the thornward is like a mob thats there attacking you so all damage is reflected back to it instead of the hr.
pretty much sos doesnt work against thornward.
they didnt lower the runspeed that much it actually feels quite normal now but hey if you got high rank darks in your utility slot even better also profound armor helps.
But for the love of what is good, I just can't wait for it to be fixed! Because only then are we going to see the true "tankiness" that we were supposed to get.
If anything just making block give cc immunity and deflect all attacks while up would even be an upgrade, since that kindof what a shield does anyway. GF have low deflect so it would be a noticeable increase in survivability. Since having a shield up removes your ability to use any encounters, I do not even see why it breaks, especially since GF will still be taking damage blocking.
Having a shield block deflect could easily fix protector as well. Could just add x% deflect severity for capstone to make them more tanky.
So at LEAST some things are changing. That just means more things that will be broken. BUT - usually when something is bugged they take FOREVER to fix it. So, we could have some pretty cool bugs for once, like HR's and TR's and CW's and DC's have had for ages. So who knows, we'll just have to see how it goes you know?
I am really hopeful that the GF will receive some nice buffs that will eventually make the class more desirable overall. Since it is stated that the GF never will be a dps we should hope for additions that means both more damage and buffs that can help the group with survivability and dps which makes it more desirable in parties. I run a conq GF and have playedover a year. Most of the time it is really nice, however there are several instances were as GF, I can feel as the fifth wheel even with 16k gs and several t2 armor, weapon sets and enchants, compared to playing DC, CW or GWF. But I can’t help it I really like the GF.
My first concern is how reckless attacker has been changed. The latest change is still a dps loss if power has been stacked. I have 12636 power which gives me 76% damage bonus, and he is not maxed out. Without neglecting any other stat, most of them hit diminishing returns and armpen at 24%, contrary to what some ppl think is the result of stacking power. AT this moment I lose 5% damage and if i would continue to max out power i will lose 10% damage. However I think that detaching the feat from guard meter is very nice and the additional crit that has been added to it is more than welcome. My suggestion here would change the flat damage bonus from each stack to a added power percentage. So if the 3 stacks are to be kept they could each grant 33% power increase so that in the end we would get almost double the power again. But with the additional crit which is really nice so in the end maybe it isn’t such a big loss, but stacking power is the only thing that the GF could excel at except from agro generation so for me it seems as a regression.
The second thing is the guard meter. As it is now on the preview it makes the GF more vulnerable especially in pvp. Since the stamina starts depleting the moment u get ur shield up, makes it even harder to effectively defend against range attacks and cc. All the opponents have to do is wait for the stamina to get depleted. So I suggest the following. First divide the guard in 3 to 5 segments. Each segment should be assigned a certain amount of damage and cc protection. So the first segment should give 100% damage and cc and negative effects (as in plague fire) protection. When that one is depleted the second one should give 80% damage reduction, 90% cc and negative effects immunity. The third one should give even less say 50% damage and 70% cc immunity. Depending on the amount of segments each one gives less and less protection which would simulate getting tired in the shield arm from all the hits. Now each segment should last at least 4 or 5 seconds with the possibly to increase the time through feats. The most important part is that the timer should not commence automatically when the shield is lifted but when the shield receives its first hit. So u can keep the shield up without the stamina being depleted until it receives it first hit, which starts the timer based stamina drain for that segment. So each segment drain needs to be initiated by being hit.
The third part is about making the GF more versatile, a jack of all trades in a positive manner. The easiest way to do that is changing the class ability so it resembles the CW ability to slot a fourth encounter power with additional features. For example into the fray could give all party members an additional 10% damage resistance or AoD gives double damage when the target has 40% health instead of 25%. There are a lot of possibilities to add extra offensive and defensive capabilities which would make the GF more versatile.
We all have opinions on how to make the GF better and as Aethanas mentioned earlier this is in the developers game and ultimately their choice on how the end result will look like. The only thing we as players can offer is insight from our experiences and maybe something that will hopefully lead to a richer experience.
Lastly although I try to keep up on the forums, but if any of these ideas already have been posted pls let me know so I can give credit. And since this is my first post id like to thank for a good game and also thank all awesome ppl from legit channel that makes this experience even greater.
Ty for reading.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
yes it is now 85% movement instead of 100% that was their huge update for us guard is still broken though.
-.- great so one of our buffs has been nerfed and the gwf nerf has been buffed plus they can just run forever and be cc immune the whole fight, cant wait for mod 4 now.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
yup it's like the devs decided to go back on everything they were trying to do, lol GWF have perma sprint and we have a guard that is so gamebreakingly broken. it's cool though at least now we all understand where GF's lie in the development circle
I was actually liking the changes, we had many buffs and gwf became killable so it was a good balance but now its going back to the start again so we still don't have defense or offense.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
LOL! The animation is so funny, it looks like your char has a problem
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have always been against this but since we will never ever have as much survivability as the HR, TR or GWF then yeah we should have more dmg.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I know that there is no reason to expect the Guardian Fighter to be such a thing like this "tank" everyone talks about, but they already claimed that the Guardian Fighter is no DPS class but what is then the role of the Guardian? A controller? What is that? I can see traits of a controller in the Control Wizard class but if I called a Guardian Fighter a controller, I could call every class a controller. Anyway, the Guardian Fighter class could be some kind of anti-controller but it is farer away from that then from a controller. Alas, this all is a matter of interpretation.
Thats just the problem, atm the guardian fighter has no role, we have the worst dmg and arguably the second worst survivability in the game. The gf will never have dps, ok I can accept that but why we have such terrible survival confuses me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Instead of makeing this class 100% useless just leave it the way it is on live forget these class
breaking nerfs.... just place in the new 20 target enforced threat ontop of the current live GF
and well we would be far happyer than with the current preview one...
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Take Conan the Barbarian, mostly because no one is going to do it better than Arnold. He could swing it pretty fast right?
Then take Achilles... He had a shield, and fast as all get out. Now explain to me how that 6ft + sword, gets faster swings than a longsword, presumably 1/3 of it's weight?
- I know we have bigger fish to fry, but it'd be nice to use another weapon enchant, especially for PVE content, like getting more burns on plague, more lightning, etc... Currently we are so slow ,that only a few enchants really matter
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR