It seems that the developers should review some sets of the Guardian Fighter to enable better options for set variety along with these changes for the class itself. At least it seems strange that a T1 set (Knight Captain) still performs better than its T2 counterpart (High General). I mean I can already hear the demands that a Guardian would ought to use the set Knight Captain and woe to the Guardian who tries to use the set High General or another set as she will get kicked for being less effective.
Is the internal cool down needed on High General?
Overall, thank you, developers, to finally give the Guardian Fighter a place in a dungeon team in addition to her overall contribution to a team in both PvP as PvE (although we have to see how usable the changes turn out to be on PvP). I think noone will say in the near future that a Guardian is a waste for a spot another damage dealer could have used.
If Im giving my party 50%+ damage buff I'm free to wear any **** set of armor I want
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Sure you can. You could also wear greens if you want. You would just be less effective.
GF's got kicked for not wearing KC before, because that was really all they offered. Do you kick a cleric for not wearing HP, a GWF for not wearing AoW, or a CW for not wearing HV? No, because they offer something else substantial. And now a GF will too
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aviracaineMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
Yea I will say this again that kv works globally is really op and should be made into an aoe around the gf instead as it will just be silly in pvp.
Tell that to players who think it will suck in PVP lol! Ive used this pre-mod one in some pvp premades and I can say it was already fairly good with a DC combo at mid....
Tell that to players who think it will suck in PVP lol! Ive used this pre-mod one in some pvp premades and I can say it was already fairly good with a DC combo at mid....
I say this with reason in mind as kv will be a must have in pvp and I really do not need to explain further as premades will all have a kv gf who is sitting on a node waiting for his teammates signal to start up kv and hold block with guarded assault and guard gain class features.
EDIT: KV should not be global its way too strong and do not say its not up for testing even live it is rather op being able to pool hp from everyone in the party which is really annoying when kv is up and fighting a gwf and his other teammates are not being attacked. Only when you can hit 3 or more of the other party while kv is active does it have a weakness that is why is should only work in an aoe(larger than dc circle but smaller than hallowed ground).
Is kv global on test? Tried it in live and there was a distance. Maybe i missed it in Crush's posts, will go back thru,and edit this post if i find it...
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
Anyone know if TWO GFs use Knights valor at once how does that work?
Or what about TWO GFs using Into the Fray, would that be a 100% damage boost?
I do. +2x Knight's Valor in awesome! But requires vocal communication in order to sync it perfectly. But yeah, it's nerfs all damage by 75% excluding the 2 GF's. Each GF only receive 50%.
I speced ready for mod 4 now i regret that xD gonna have to re spec now before it comes out but no idea what to put all my points on since there is so much choice lol
I just want to say Gratz to you Gfs and that I hope it looks this good when it comes to live. You have suffered for such a long time and deserve a long time in the sun a BIG GRATZ to ya all :cool:,
Let's say a GF has 50% DR. It blocks a 20k damage attack. Block reduces it to 4k damage, and DR brings it down to 2k (or the other way, DR reduces to 10k, and block to 2k).
At which point does the reflected damage occur? 20k, 10k, 4k, or 2k?
How I understand your post, it sounds like it is reflected at the start, 20k. That's 3k damage reflected, and 2k received.
...nice.
My understanding is the 20k. Its not a reflect of damage taken (like briartwine) which would THEN be on the "final" damage numbers received. Its based on damage dealt.
So its the SAME as the old block - you took 0% damage but 3% of the damage DEALT was reflected. NOW its 15% is reflected.
So what this looks like:
10,000 comes in (say Ice Knife) from a CW with 25% ARP.
10,000 gets mitigated by block (80%) down to 2,000.
10,000 @ 15% reflects back 1500 at the attacker.
the post block damage, now goes into 50% DR level, reduced by 25% ARP, so effectively its 25% DR. This takes 2k down to 1500.
This 1500 THEN is hit with tenacity (20%) putting it to:
1200 FINAL DAMAGE.
Now IDK how the 2000 damage outgoing works, I dont know if YOUR ARP factors in, but apparently it procs weapon enchants now - WHICH IS FREAKING AWESOME!!!!!! so assume the CW has 25% DR (and ARP doesnt factor) the reflected 1500 turns to 1125 THEN to 900 from tenacity.
So you took 1200, they took 900 - OFF of 10k damage.
I think overall the idea is that you (most likely) will still take more damage than the target you reflected back at - almost no matter what.
20% comes through - you reflect 15% back...
The only thing I could see is bad GWFs complaining if they get some massive 20-25k crit and ends up coming through block at like 3k and they get hit with like 2500 back... Thatll sure make a few mad gotta learn the new way to play!
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stagger38Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
As a side note, last night while running around PE I saw a large amount of GFs hanging around, far more than I am used to seeing. Folks dusting their iron warriors off?
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I'm happy but at the same time I feel like when I bought the Cockatrice companion, I think there will be ppl asking for our nerfs... with these changes we can make a huge difference in a party, I mean a HUGE difference, 1st KV -> 50% DR, 2nd ItF -> Huge Damage Boost, 3rd Reflecting and procing Weapon Enchantments -> OMG (and with Protector Capstone debuffing like Crazy), etc..., I hope it will last enough to enjoy it .
Thanks for the response! What confuses me is this... in the old "iron maiden" build, this used to work, and then it stopped working it seems. I can accept if things have changed and its no longer possible, but its a weird interaction lol.
Also, is there any chance that SoS 2nd activation procs Steel Defense again, like it was before Mod3? It was probably the only thing making Steel Defense worth taking a precious slot, now Guarded Assault seems a must-have...
(It wouldn't make GWF any more powerful since GWF has no access to SoS :P)
I really like the changes but I fear that when mod 4 goes live people will start to ask for a nerf to the GF class. =(
The synergy between Knight's valor, guarded assault and the protector capstone will reduce the damage dealt to my teammates by 70%, on top of that I will be able to boost their damage by 55% and give them more mobility thanks to into the fray. And in the 3rd slot i can place GW to chain stun a target and deal decent damage.
I will be very tanky in mod 4, something like 50k HP, 50% DR, 25% deflect chanche and 1k regen, if I go middle with this setup and with a cleric and 2 dps classes, the 2 dps classes will be next to immortal and I will not die taking their damage thanks to high defense and the cleric support.
At this point people will start to whine on the forum and the GF class will be nerfed to uselessness again.
I like all the changes done to this class, but maybe now it's too much and something needs to nerfed.
I really like the changes but I fear that when mod 4 goes live people will start to ask for a nerf to the GF class. =(
The synergy between Knight's valor, guarded assault and the protector capstone will reduce the damage dealt to my teammates by 70%, on top of that I will be able to boost their damage by 55% and give them more mobility thanks to into the fray. And in the 3rd slot i can place GW to chain stun a target e deal decent damage.
I will be very tanky in mod 4, something like 50k HP, 50% DR, 25% deflect chanche and 1k regen, if I go middle with this setup and with a cleric and 2 dps classes, the 2 dps classes will be next to immortal and i will not die taking their damage thanks to high defense and the cleric support.
At this point people will start to whine on the forum and the GF class will be nerfed to uselessness again.
I like all the changes done to this class, but maybe now it's too much and something needs to nerfed.
Sorry for bad English.
Yep, I fear that too, and to being honest I think some stuff must be tuned down, in just a short time chris told us we will have these amazing buffs, extremelly good ones, so good that I think ppl will start to complaing, I'm 95% sure about that.
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ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
edited July 2014
To be honest. Everyone who was playing GF had to pay or have good guild or have another toon to equip main char, or all of mentioned before. Simple, we deserve changes, will make us key point of pvp/pve group. And since now, all goes into right direction. Keep going.
I really like the changes but I fear that when mod 4 goes live people will start to ask for a nerf to the GF class. =(
The synergy between Knight's valor, guarded assault and the protector capstone will reduce the damage dealt to my teammates by 70%, on top of that I will be able to boost their damage by 55% and give them more mobility thanks to into the fray. And in the 3rd slot i can place GW to chain stun a target and deal decent damage.
I will be very tanky in mod 4, something like 50k HP, 50% DR, 25% deflect chanche and 1k regen, if I go middle with this setup and with a cleric and 2 dps classes, the 2 dps classes will be next to immortal and I will not die taking their damage thanks to high defense and the cleric support.
At this point people will start to whine on the forum and the GF class will be nerfed to uselessness again.
I like all the changes done to this class, but maybe now it's too much and something needs to nerfed.
Sorry for bad English.
for forsake stop saying nerve already jeez no testing has been done for this yet and with these changes were finally looking to be at least competetive lol anyone that says beef gf must not be playing against the top dog pvp classes. And btw that setup will only work in premades and only if you do have a cleric pigs are too disorganized to make effective use of those skills. Also we do take damage through guard now so unless you do have a cleric you most likely will explode if you try that. So really its only good for pmvpm
Let me first say that I do not have a GF. Only class I have not played yet. So I have been trying to keep up with GF changes the best I can given my limited knowledge. I like the fact you guys are getting all these buffs. Needed to happen. I do have a question though. How valuable is into the fray going to be for PVE? Is it going to be so good that you cannot imagine using it? My question is due to my concern about the speed bonus. It is like the speed bonus CW's give when casting steal time in mastery. I don't have an issue poping in between pulls to get to places faster, but during pulls that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gets me killed so often.
For your questions: I share your concern about Into the Fray, something tells me it's way over the top for a buff that can be up 75-85% of the time (depending on your build). As it stands, I cannot imagine not slotting it in any party setup. This also diminishes the importance of Tactician build as a buffer. (Protector makes it stronger than Tactician)
For your final concern: It's not as bad (or good) as Steal Time, it increases running speed slightly, it doesn't make you go to the speed of light. You're not gonna die because of it.
Just a quick word to tell you my point of view as a non GF player,
As with other classes, the skill of the player in building and playing a character has a heavy impact on the effectiveness of the toons he plays with, And I have met some extremely effective GF's on the battlefield, that make win or lose difference in most partys during tough boss fights. I play a control wizard and right now, as it is, guardian fighters are the players I appreciate the most to be included in my parties. They gather the mobs/adds neatly, preventing them from attacking me and interrupting my spells, while offering a beautiful target for my AOEs. And the feedback that I get from most of them regarding those changes is that they don't want any of them. They've spent time and skills building great characters that perform admirably well, and now those most dedicated players who took the time to fine tune their toon and skills should have to redo everything from scratch because of the marketing department's need to dumb down a great class so that noobs who may drop the game in a week can build a "Powerful" character without too much of a headache... That's total disrespect for the effort and fidelity of those committed and efficient GFs. I mean, I think you got it all wrong, the fun of a RPG is to build and improve your character over time, not to make a carnage as soon as you start playing... Players who seek easy kills will play GTA or a FPS, not Neverwinter, and if they do, they certainly won't choose a highly technical and altruistic support character like the GF. They'll probably make a GWF or something more...Self centered...
So please, Leave the GFs the way they are. Intelligent players Perform just fine with them, and their current intricacies allow players to give more soul to their character, making each well built GF a unique powerhouse that calls for respect.
Just a quick word to tell you my point of view as a non GF player,
As with other classes, the skill of the player in building and playing a character has a heavy impact on the effectiveness of the toons he plays with, And I have met some extremely effective GF's on the battlefield, that make win or lose difference in most partys during tough boss fights. I play a control wizard and right now, as it is, guardian fighters are the players I appreciate the most to be included in my parties. They gather the mobs/adds neatly, preventing them from attacking me and interrupting my spells, while offering a beautiful target for my AOEs. And the feedback that I get from most of them regarding those changes is that they don't want any of them. They've spent time and skills building great characters that perform admirably well, and now those most dedicated players who took the time to fine tune their toon and skills should have to redo everything from scratch because of the marketing department's need to dumb down a great class so that noobs who may drop the game in a week can build a "Powerful" character without too much of a headache... That's total disrespect for the effort and fidelity of those committed and efficient GFs. I mean, I think you got it all wrong, the fun of a RPG is to build and improve your character over time, not to make a carnage as soon as you start playing... Players who seek easy kills will play GTA or a FPS, not Neverwinter, and if they do, they certainly won't choose a highly technical and altruistic support character like the GF. They'll probably make a GWF or something more...Self centered...
So please, Leave the GFs the way they are. Intelligent players Perform just fine with them, and their current intricacies allow players to give more soul to their character, making each well built GF a unique powerhouse that calls for respect.
boustanforum,
I appreciate you taking the time to come in here - at probably the urging of a few of your friends, to post your feedback. What I can tell you is this.
My first character in this game was a GF, I have two 60 GFs and GF is my favorite and most loved class. Guardians were fine up until they removed our old armor bonus from Stalwart Bulwark.
These changes they are making are AMAZING, guardian fighters currently are a dead class. Change is inevitable for all classes. Have you seen all the changes to GWFs every module? The need to re-work all that farming JUST to get the class right?
What about HR? SO many changes.
What about artifacts? I spent over 12 million on Emblem and its now worthless.
If you dont adapt, you lose.
The only players who may potentially dislike all these changes (which I honestly cant see how) are really the minority of GF players who are close minded about changes to the class. The only players I have ever seen oppose these changes at GFs who spent ALOT of time farming +power and are sitting at 14k+ Power because of the Capstone.
I will tell you this, you cant balance a class based on GFs who outgear content in PVE.
GFs are completely dead in PVP - these changes will fix that.
Gfs are unneeded in PVE - these changes will fix that.
I have zero sympathy for players against this change "because they spent alot of time building their character". Thus is the nature of games. Things change, as a CW you of all should know that.
All of these are MUCH for the better, and suggesting to leave the class as is, is honestly a HUGE slap in the face to everyone here. While I, again, appreciate you posting and taking your time to do so, its fairly clear to me you dont understand the class, what is changing or why, and are only doing this at the prodding of a friend of yours.
Seeing also that this is your only post here on the forums as well, I question the validity of this post.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Just a quick word to tell you my point of view as a non GF player,
As with other classes, the skill of the player in building and playing a character has a heavy impact on the effectiveness of the toons he plays with, And I have met some extremely effective GF's on the battlefield, that make win or lose difference in most partys during tough boss fights. I play a control wizard and right now, as it is, guardian fighters are the players I appreciate the most to be included in my parties. They gather the mobs/adds neatly, preventing them from attacking me and interrupting my spells, while offering a beautiful target for my AOEs. And the feedback that I get from most of them regarding those changes is that they don't want any of them. They've spent time and skills building great characters that perform admirably well, and now those most dedicated players who took the time to fine tune their toon and skills should have to redo everything from scratch because of the marketing department's need to dumb down a great class so that noobs who may drop the game in a week can build a "Powerful" character without too much of a headache... That's total disrespect for the effort and fidelity of those committed and efficient GFs. I mean, I think you got it all wrong, the fun of a RPG is to build and improve your character over time, not to make a carnage as soon as you start playing... Players who seek easy kills will play GTA or a FPS, not Neverwinter, and if they do, they certainly won't choose a highly technical and altruistic support character like the GF. They'll probably make a GWF or something more...Self centered...
So please, Leave the GFs the way they are. Intelligent players Perform just fine with them, and their current intricacies allow players to give more soul to their character, making each well built GF a unique powerhouse that calls for respect.
If it wasn't against the rules I'd give you a rating.
But using your anecdotal evidence to suggest that good GFs don't want these changes is disrespect to those who want these changes.
If they are so good as you claim, they will re-adapt quickly and find a new build. And if they are so good they will still shine above the "noobs who drop the game in a week"
But for the rest of us, these changes are indeed welcome and we appreciate them.
From the last part of your post I have a feeling you haven't even read the new changes in detail as you are implying that GF becomes more self-centered and less altruistic, when it's actually the other way around. The strongest buffs we are receiving concern group buffs and party utilities, not raw dps or damage resistance.
I really like the changes but I fear that when mod 4 goes live people will start to ask for a nerf to the GF class. =(
The synergy between Knight's valor, guarded assault and the protector capstone will reduce the damage dealt to my teammates by 70%, on top of that I will be able to boost their damage by 55% and give them more mobility thanks to into the fray. And in the 3rd slot i can place GW to chain stun a target and deal decent damage.
I will be very tanky in mod 4, something like 50k HP, 50% DR, 25% deflect chanche and 1k regen, if I go middle with this setup and with a cleric and 2 dps classes, the 2 dps classes will be next to immortal and I will not die taking their damage thanks to high defense and the cleric support.
At this point people will start to whine on the forum and the GF class will be nerfed to uselessness again.
I like all the changes done to this class, but maybe now it's too much and something needs to nerfed.
Sorry for bad English.
Protector reduce the damage an ally receive by 60% not 70%(100%-20% = 80%*.5 = 40% received).
Out of that: I never had a situation, where it was really need to reduce the damage of mobs by ~60%. If you blame this situation, then the DC with its OP AS(and other DR buffs) should get nerfed, because even the fragile CW/HR/TR(as it was ever that HR and TR will in any way fragile) will get up to %DR like GF and above. So this point is only a facepalm.
And bringing the GF in a position, that is next to immortal with a DC is what the GF - the defensive ones - MUST be. And for your defensive ability, you lack the offensive ones. That, was bringing the party dps down. And now your point about ItF come into play:
And ItF will buff the party dps, which is needed. Some complain, that an Protector will benefit the party more as an Tactician, but that's a joke aren't it?
Protector has.... Fufu this! NOTHING as additional DR values!
Okay Shield Defense. +5 AC. That's a huge impact of 2.5%!!!!! more DR. Not that this point isn't available to Tactician too...
AND Browling Warrior +5% DR for toggled KV - but that cost a encounter slot.
Other +% DR values I missed??? What not? Poor Protector.
The Tactician get +5% for ItF. This should work with the damage buff so the 5% increase by x% too. So the Tactician benefit more as the Protector and a way more as a Conqueror.
@gentlemancrush: Do the DoT resistance from STR and AoE resistance from DEX affect ItF damage bonus as well?
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stagger38Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
Just a quick word to tell you my point of view as a non GF player,
As with other classes, the skill of the player in building and playing a character has a heavy impact on the effectiveness of the toons he plays with, And I have met some extremely effective GF's on the battlefield, that make win or lose difference in most partys during tough boss fights. I play a control wizard and right now, as it is, guardian fighters are the players I appreciate the most to be included in my parties. They gather the mobs/adds neatly, preventing them from attacking me and interrupting my spells, while offering a beautiful target for my AOEs. And the feedback that I get from most of them regarding those changes is that they don't want any of them. They've spent time and skills building great characters that perform admirably well, and now those most dedicated players who took the time to fine tune their toon and skills should have to redo everything from scratch because of the marketing department's need to dumb down a great class so that noobs who may drop the game in a week can build a "Powerful" character without too much of a headache... That's total disrespect for the effort and fidelity of those committed and efficient GFs. I mean, I think you got it all wrong, the fun of a RPG is to build and improve your character over time, not to make a carnage as soon as you start playing... Players who seek easy kills will play GTA or a FPS, not Neverwinter, and if they do, they certainly won't choose a highly technical and altruistic support character like the GF. They'll probably make a GWF or something more...Self centered...
So please, Leave the GFs the way they are. Intelligent players Perform just fine with them, and their current intricacies allow players to give more soul to their character, making each well built GF a unique powerhouse that calls for respect.
Keep in mind that many of the changes still haven't hit preview yet, so it is difficult to judge them. I would be surprised if KV and ItF are not nerfed slightly after we test them.
With the mod4 changes, every GF build is better. Any GF that doesn't want these changes either hates that they can no longer brag about being moderately successful with a poor class, or does not understand the changes.
Comments
If Im giving my party 50%+ damage buff I'm free to wear any **** set of armor I want
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
GF's got kicked for not wearing KC before, because that was really all they offered. Do you kick a cleric for not wearing HP, a GWF for not wearing AoW, or a CW for not wearing HV? No, because they offer something else substantial. And now a GF will too
Actually yes they do. At least in my experience with high end farming parties. :c
Tell that to players who think it will suck in PVP lol! Ive used this pre-mod one in some pvp premades and I can say it was already fairly good with a DC combo at mid....
I say this with reason in mind as kv will be a must have in pvp and I really do not need to explain further as premades will all have a kv gf who is sitting on a node waiting for his teammates signal to start up kv and hold block with guarded assault and guard gain class features.
EDIT: KV should not be global its way too strong and do not say its not up for testing even live it is rather op being able to pool hp from everyone in the party which is really annoying when kv is up and fighting a gwf and his other teammates are not being attacked. Only when you can hit 3 or more of the other party while kv is active does it have a weakness that is why is should only work in an aoe(larger than dc circle but smaller than hallowed ground).
I do. +2x Knight's Valor in awesome! But requires vocal communication in order to sync it perfectly. But yeah, it's nerfs all damage by 75% excluding the 2 GF's. Each GF only receive 50%.
Conq GF? Tact? Prot?!?!
Now we have THREE trees to play with WOOHOO!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My understanding is the 20k. Its not a reflect of damage taken (like briartwine) which would THEN be on the "final" damage numbers received. Its based on damage dealt.
So its the SAME as the old block - you took 0% damage but 3% of the damage DEALT was reflected. NOW its 15% is reflected.
So what this looks like:
10,000 comes in (say Ice Knife) from a CW with 25% ARP.
10,000 gets mitigated by block (80%) down to 2,000.
10,000 @ 15% reflects back 1500 at the attacker.
the post block damage, now goes into 50% DR level, reduced by 25% ARP, so effectively its 25% DR. This takes 2k down to 1500.
This 1500 THEN is hit with tenacity (20%) putting it to:
1200 FINAL DAMAGE.
Now IDK how the 2000 damage outgoing works, I dont know if YOUR ARP factors in, but apparently it procs weapon enchants now - WHICH IS FREAKING AWESOME!!!!!! so assume the CW has 25% DR (and ARP doesnt factor) the reflected 1500 turns to 1125 THEN to 900 from tenacity.
So you took 1200, they took 900 - OFF of 10k damage.
I think overall the idea is that you (most likely) will still take more damage than the target you reflected back at - almost no matter what.
20% comes through - you reflect 15% back...
The only thing I could see is bad GWFs complaining if they get some massive 20-25k crit and ends up coming through block at like 3k and they get hit with like 2500 back... Thatll sure make a few mad gotta learn the new way to play!
I was really just curious where in the equation the reflect occurred. 15% before reduction just makes it that much more awesome.
Edit: You've got me thinking though, does the reflected damage benefit from Mark? -20% DR, combat advantage?
Timeline on the ''plz nerf GF'' QQ threads? ;p
As a side note, last night while running around PE I saw a large amount of GFs hanging around, far more than I am used to seeing. Folks dusting their iron warriors off?
This will be interesting if our arp and other debuffs affect this reflect damage.
I just want to play my GF in mod 4 so bad!!!!!
Also, is there any chance that SoS 2nd activation procs Steel Defense again, like it was before Mod3? It was probably the only thing making Steel Defense worth taking a precious slot, now Guarded Assault seems a must-have...
(It wouldn't make GWF any more powerful since GWF has no access to SoS :P)
The synergy between Knight's valor, guarded assault and the protector capstone will reduce the damage dealt to my teammates by 70%, on top of that I will be able to boost their damage by 55% and give them more mobility thanks to into the fray. And in the 3rd slot i can place GW to chain stun a target and deal decent damage.
I will be very tanky in mod 4, something like 50k HP, 50% DR, 25% deflect chanche and 1k regen, if I go middle with this setup and with a cleric and 2 dps classes, the 2 dps classes will be next to immortal and I will not die taking their damage thanks to high defense and the cleric support.
At this point people will start to whine on the forum and the GF class will be nerfed to uselessness again.
I like all the changes done to this class, but maybe now it's too much and something needs to nerfed.
Sorry for bad English.
Yep, I fear that too, and to being honest I think some stuff must be tuned down, in just a short time chris told us we will have these amazing buffs, extremelly good ones, so good that I think ppl will start to complaing, I'm 95% sure about that.
.Suicide Squad.
Into the fray isnt 100% uptime
GF will be strong but i really dont think TOO strong. We will just be a valued class now. Most of that value is group benefits
Which was the whole issue to begin with. Now groups would be absolutely foolish not to bring a GF. Mission accomplished
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
For your questions: I share your concern about Into the Fray, something tells me it's way over the top for a buff that can be up 75-85% of the time (depending on your build). As it stands, I cannot imagine not slotting it in any party setup. This also diminishes the importance of Tactician build as a buffer. (Protector makes it stronger than Tactician)
For your final concern: It's not as bad (or good) as Steal Time, it increases running speed slightly, it doesn't make you go to the speed of light. You're not gonna die because of it.
Just a quick word to tell you my point of view as a non GF player,
As with other classes, the skill of the player in building and playing a character has a heavy impact on the effectiveness of the toons he plays with, And I have met some extremely effective GF's on the battlefield, that make win or lose difference in most partys during tough boss fights. I play a control wizard and right now, as it is, guardian fighters are the players I appreciate the most to be included in my parties. They gather the mobs/adds neatly, preventing them from attacking me and interrupting my spells, while offering a beautiful target for my AOEs. And the feedback that I get from most of them regarding those changes is that they don't want any of them. They've spent time and skills building great characters that perform admirably well, and now those most dedicated players who took the time to fine tune their toon and skills should have to redo everything from scratch because of the marketing department's need to dumb down a great class so that noobs who may drop the game in a week can build a "Powerful" character without too much of a headache... That's total disrespect for the effort and fidelity of those committed and efficient GFs. I mean, I think you got it all wrong, the fun of a RPG is to build and improve your character over time, not to make a carnage as soon as you start playing... Players who seek easy kills will play GTA or a FPS, not Neverwinter, and if they do, they certainly won't choose a highly technical and altruistic support character like the GF. They'll probably make a GWF or something more...Self centered...
So please, Leave the GFs the way they are. Intelligent players Perform just fine with them, and their current intricacies allow players to give more soul to their character, making each well built GF a unique powerhouse that calls for respect.
boustanforum,
I appreciate you taking the time to come in here - at probably the urging of a few of your friends, to post your feedback. What I can tell you is this.
My first character in this game was a GF, I have two 60 GFs and GF is my favorite and most loved class. Guardians were fine up until they removed our old armor bonus from Stalwart Bulwark.
These changes they are making are AMAZING, guardian fighters currently are a dead class. Change is inevitable for all classes. Have you seen all the changes to GWFs every module? The need to re-work all that farming JUST to get the class right?
What about HR? SO many changes.
What about artifacts? I spent over 12 million on Emblem and its now worthless.
If you dont adapt, you lose.
The only players who may potentially dislike all these changes (which I honestly cant see how) are really the minority of GF players who are close minded about changes to the class. The only players I have ever seen oppose these changes at GFs who spent ALOT of time farming +power and are sitting at 14k+ Power because of the Capstone.
I will tell you this, you cant balance a class based on GFs who outgear content in PVE.
GFs are completely dead in PVP - these changes will fix that.
Gfs are unneeded in PVE - these changes will fix that.
I have zero sympathy for players against this change "because they spent alot of time building their character". Thus is the nature of games. Things change, as a CW you of all should know that.
All of these are MUCH for the better, and suggesting to leave the class as is, is honestly a HUGE slap in the face to everyone here. While I, again, appreciate you posting and taking your time to do so, its fairly clear to me you dont understand the class, what is changing or why, and are only doing this at the prodding of a friend of yours.
Seeing also that this is your only post here on the forums as well, I question the validity of this post.
If it wasn't against the rules I'd give you a rating.
But using your anecdotal evidence to suggest that good GFs don't want these changes is disrespect to those who want these changes.
If they are so good as you claim, they will re-adapt quickly and find a new build. And if they are so good they will still shine above the "noobs who drop the game in a week"
But for the rest of us, these changes are indeed welcome and we appreciate them.
From the last part of your post I have a feeling you haven't even read the new changes in detail as you are implying that GF becomes more self-centered and less altruistic, when it's actually the other way around. The strongest buffs we are receiving concern group buffs and party utilities, not raw dps or damage resistance.
Protector reduce the damage an ally receive by 60% not 70%(100%-20% = 80%*.5 = 40% received).
Out of that: I never had a situation, where it was really need to reduce the damage of mobs by ~60%. If you blame this situation, then the DC with its OP AS(and other DR buffs) should get nerfed, because even the fragile CW/HR/TR(as it was ever that HR and TR will in any way fragile) will get up to %DR like GF and above. So this point is only a facepalm.
And bringing the GF in a position, that is next to immortal with a DC is what the GF - the defensive ones - MUST be. And for your defensive ability, you lack the offensive ones. That, was bringing the party dps down. And now your point about ItF come into play:
And ItF will buff the party dps, which is needed. Some complain, that an Protector will benefit the party more as an Tactician, but that's a joke aren't it?
Protector has.... Fufu this! NOTHING as additional DR values!
Okay Shield Defense. +5 AC. That's a huge impact of 2.5%!!!!! more DR. Not that this point isn't available to Tactician too...
AND Browling Warrior +5% DR for toggled KV - but that cost a encounter slot.
Other +% DR values I missed??? What not? Poor Protector.
The Tactician get +5% for ItF. This should work with the damage buff so the 5% increase by x% too. So the Tactician benefit more as the Protector and a way more as a Conqueror.
@gentlemancrush: Do the DoT resistance from STR and AoE resistance from DEX affect ItF damage bonus as well?
With the mod4 changes, every GF build is better. Any GF that doesn't want these changes either hates that they can no longer brag about being moderately successful with a poor class, or does not understand the changes.