More weapon damage would be nice! I think if they did not increase the attack speed, the weapon damage would have to be MASSIVE to get any benefit from 10-30% anything of weapon damage (lifedrinker, plague, bile, those sorts of things)..
So either our weapon damage needs increased drastically, or our attack speed needs to go up. It'd be so nice to actually hurt some things with at-wills and not having to mark/tide/KC/Villain's to get decent at-will damage lol
Hello all , as an avid gf player I just want to say the direction they seem to be going is making the class much much worse than before.
Survivability: blocking now allows damage to get through WHAT? YES THAT'S RIGHT YOU TAKE DAMAGE WHILE BLOCKING NOW
trade off more mobility while blocking= useless. more responsive key presses= useless they were fine already.
Soloist DAMAGE:cut in half due to the awful rework of reckless attacker= give us our power back and add some and then some more and a little crit we need to be able to kill.
cc: now we no longer have any cc, reduced prone so miniscule its not even there then you take away frontline surge damage and power.
we need an option if we want to be full dps vanguard gf with cc powers and high damage this will make the class viable in pvp and pve
and more ppl will play it as a result . Thanks for viewing the response from a soloist gf and part time partier.
Hello all, just a little 2 coppers on why I am harping WEAPON DAMAGE.
I recently rolled every class through level 1-4. I never really have done this, preferring just to stick my head in the sand as a Guardian Fighter. Well, my main exhibit I would bring attention to is how the Trickster Rogue's Level 1 At-Will "Sly Flourish" takes into account BOTH Weapons which at first I didn't understand. The tool tip in the Character Window only identifies the Primary Weapon damage, which is 11-13. So is the Off-hand. A Level 1 GF Weapon provides 14-18. The TR Level 2 At-Will only recognizes the one weapon when actually slotted and executed, but the Character Window display both as exactly in the reverse of Sly Flourish which made me so curious and eventually downright angry. I think the best way to compare it is to the GWF Level 1 weapon which is 22-27 damage. TR Main- Off-Hand adds up to 22-26.
Every other class gets an 18-22 weapon. That includes the new Scourge Warlock and the old HR. Further, at level 10, HR gets an additional weapon for their Off-Hand. Not sure how that plays out or how their blades work exactly, but this is simply an unfair limitation.
This is not a DPS>Tank argument.
Everyone knows the "Guardian Fighter cannot do damage" and that is absolutely correct. It is actually very sincere, honest feedback.
There isn't a bigger problem in my opinion. However, I'm concerned that the reason it hasn't or won't be fixed is because it has to do with actual weapon stats itself, and would require a kind of roll-back to accomplish. (I guess).
*snip*
Soloist DAMAGE:cut in half due to the awful rework of reckless attacker= give us our power back and add some and then some more and a little crit we need to be able to kill. *snip*
Crit can only be fixed by a weapon damage fix. That is your cap limiter. And Power i.e. Reckless Attacker is the scape goat.
Powers are fine.
Crushing Surge Animation
Weapon Provides Substandard Damage
ARE NOT FINE
The fact that Reckless Attacker is a concern is a telling sign.
BUFF EVERY GF WEAPON BY
12.5%
There is no other solution.
This accounts for your Crit Caps as well!
Do NOT buff weapon damage. If you are a GF who wants MOAR DAMAGE, just roll a Sentinel/IV GWF and enjoy. That takes away from the class and what it's supposed to do. With that said GF DPS, if built correctly with the right companions, is exactly where it should be, just like every cookie cutter build. Mind you, GFs aren't even built for DPS, they are all burst. We have no DPS and we shouldn't have any DPS skills, we need to maintain burst damage. The class doesn't want, nor need damage, it needs utility.
The Good:
The Dev's have literally released the intent behind the class so stick to that or go find a new game. They have done an amazing job redesigning the class to fit their intent.
The Bad:
The problem is that even on Test it's incredibly difficult to get off more than one chain because we spend more time backing away with our shield up and getting punished than anything else. Once shield goes down, we are just targets with a pretty big HP pool which causes us to get obliterated very quickly. GFs need options that negate the shield crutch and allow us to fight and win (under optimal circumstances).
My solution:
We need 2 of the 3 options here:
Inherent CC resist (20-30%)
Inherent deflect (3-5%)
Inherent DR (5-10%)
That would give us the tankiness we need to let our alpha go, actually use cleave or WMS, and let our teamates play mop up crew.
Also, with the new shield, the shield at-wills just don't work very well IMO. There is zero synergy there. I propose completely redesigning them, and have them change based on path. And give us a bit of risk v. reward play since we have none.
Swordmaster Shield At-Wills
LMB: Punishing Charge (5 second cooldown to differentiate from Threatening Rush, drains 50% of remaining guard meter)
RMB: Parry, Buff Skill (15 second cooldown, immediately reflect 20% of damage done to you and daze target for 1 second on next attack, buff lasts 1 second. Drains 25% of remaining guard meter.)
Iron Vanguard
LMB: Reckless Warcry (15 second cooldown. Roar with no disrupt, only knockback. Drains 50% of remaining guard meter.)
RMB: Shield Wall (Basically old shield except it doesn't drain stamina, you can't move, you can't attack, and it lasts 3 seconds. Could possible create a small circle and prevent all damage in it during that time. 15 second cooldown, drains 25% of total guard meter)
What does this do? For Swordmaster, it gives him a bit of utility to close the distance and to deflect damage, overall the ability to get an advantage with his shield outside of just running around blocking ****. It means he can't just be recklessly 1v1'd with no regard to his skills or equipment. It means that BIG one shot Ice Knife might not always be a good idea. Swordmaster's have always done relatively decent damage in PVP and have good defenses to match, this just adds utility to the box.
Iron Vanguard? When I think IV I think someone who is going to require the enemy team to focus on them or face destruction. In order to prevent the instagib, he/she will need a bit of utility. I believe this will make the IV much harder to kill or deal with when he's alone and unafraid keeping mobs off people or players off points. Shield Wall gives the IV the crucial time he needs to recharge his next skill safely in melee range (GWFs have unstoppable/sprint, HRs are OP as hell, TRs have stealth and ITC, CWs have Range and control, Clerics have the rest of their fully healed team).
More weapon damage would be nice! I think if they did not increase the attack speed, the weapon damage would have to be MASSIVE to get any benefit from 10-30% anything of weapon damage (lifedrinker, plague, bile, those sorts of things)..
So either our weapon damage needs increased drastically, or our attack speed needs to go up. It'd be so nice to actually hurt some things with at-wills and not having to mark/tide/KC/Villain's to get decent at-will damage lol
It doesn't need to be that drastic at all.
This is a base stat that has a lot more weight than most things. It may seem like 12.5% is a funny rabbit-out of the-hat number, but it's not. In fact, I would not be surprised if the our base damage is actually 88.5% from the get go.
Example.
Battle Trample - Tactician Feat - Tier 2 When Trample The Fallen would cause you to deal more damage, you also gain 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage in Threat and deal 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage as Physical Damage.
Tests show a "broken mechanic" is evidently somewhere.
It doesn't need to be that drastic at all. Example.
Battle Trample - Tactician Feat - Tier 2 When Trample The Fallen would cause you to deal more damage, you also gain 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage in Threat and deal 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage as Physical Damage.
Tests show a "broken mechanic" is evidently somewhere.
I am not sure but I think that just means 25% of our weapon damage in addition for each hit. I'm not sure which calculations that weapon damage goes into when multiplying the damage occurs. When I've tested it seems like it literally just adds 25% of our weapon damage to the final number, of course it gets mitigated, so it had seemed somewhat pointless.
0
elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
I completely disagree. I think that what the GF needs is diversity. Currently you can go tank, tank or tank. With the latest changes - even more so. What you should be able to do is to go DPS, tank or buffer/controller.
Do NOT buff weapon damage. If you are a GF who wants MOAR DAMAGE, just roll a Sentinel/IV GWF and enjoy. That takes away from the class and what it's supposed to do. With that said GF DPS, if built correctly with the right companions, is exactly where it should be, just like every cookie cutter build. Mind you, GFs aren't even built for DPS, they are all burst. We have no DPS and we shouldn't have any DPS skills, we need to maintain burst damage. The class doesn't want, nor need damage, it needs utility.
I kinda agree with you, in the sense that what the class should aim is to be hard to die and support the team, but our DPS is way too low to be competent, it's just too low... my GF is outDPS 4x times by a good geared GWF, but my GF isn't 4x times harder to kill, that's what I don't understand... if they are gonna make us goods Tanks (that, BTW... this game doesn't need) then we should be notoriously harder to kill than a GWF, but we aren't (we will in Mod 4 if we compare with a Destroyer, but then we have Sentinels), so if you sum the facts that more Tankiness isn't needed in PvE, and that we can actually give some buffs (Mark which reduce 8% DR and now gives Combat Advantage, KV, Into the Fay, etc...), then I would go for DPS, and we could be more desirable in Dungeons and not a Dead Weight, and I'm not even speaking about a great change, just a slightly rework to make us still be one of the lowest DPS class, but with a slightly more DPS...
(IMO, it doesn't matter if we become almost, as good as a DC in support and have 10 billion HP, ppl here only want DPS... and it's not their fault, the dungeons are too easy).
I completely disagree. I think that what the GF needs is diversity. Currently you can go tank, tank or tank. With the latest changes - even more so. What you should be able to do is to go DPS, tank or buffer/controller.
I don't mean to be rude, but what you think is not in line with what the developers are aiming for.
GFs don't need anything apart from more defenses and utility. They are like the old Paladin class in EQ. They had the lowest DPS of all the fighter classes. But what they could do was tank (if no warrior present) and keep themselves sustained. Our job is very similar. DPS is not our job, nor should it be. Threat, is our job.
This is a base stat that has a lot more weight than most things. It may seem like 12.5% is a funny rabbit-out of the-hat number, but it's not. In fact, I would not be surprised if the our base damage is actually 88.5% from the get go.
So you say that a 12.5% DMG is going to make us attack 88.5% more damage?, so if I pick a weapon with 500 damage and a weapon with 562.5 damage I'm gonna do 80% more damage with the 2nd one?, I don't think so, lol.
I don't mean to be rude, but what you think is not in line with what the developers are aiming for.
GFs don't need anything apart from more defenses and utility. They are like the old Paladin class in EQ. They had the lowest DPS of all the fighter classes. But what they could do was tank (if no warrior present) and keep themselves sustained. Our job is very similar. DPS is not our job, nor should it be. Threat, is our job.
Oh ya, threat is a huge factor in PvP. I am starting to lose faith in mankind. Damage > threat. End of the story.
So you say that a 12.5% DMG is going to make us attack 88.5% more damage?, so if I pick a weapon with 500 damage and a weapon with 562.5 damage I'm gonna do 80% more damage with the 2nd one?, I don't think so, lol.
No, what I'm saying is the 500 dmg weapon should be 560 dmg and the 562.5 dmg weapon 632.8125 weapon ...theoretically.
And, of course, there are no static weapon damages. they're all ranges. Which should increase by 10%-12.5%.
Thank you for that perfect example.
The minimum base damage value should be increased by 10%.
The maximum base damage value should be increased by 12.5%
For instance. If it was a 500-562(?) weapon, it would become a 550-633 weapon.
0
elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
I don't mean to be rude, but what you think is not in line with what the developers are aiming for.
GFs don't need anything apart from more defenses and utility. They are like the old Paladin class in EQ. They had the lowest DPS of all the fighter classes. But what they could do was tank (if no warrior present) and keep themselves sustained. Our job is very similar. DPS is not our job, nor should it be. Threat, is our job.
I don't mean to be rude, but what you and the developers have in mind is clearly limiting how people want to play the class. I want diversity. I do not want to destroy the way you play but to reinforce the way I play a GF. You, on the other hand, seem to want to destroy the way many players play their GF. The community is clearly not in line with what the devs are presenting for the GF. This is evident by the huge thread discussing the changes to the GF which is twice as big as that of any other class so there is clearly a problem with the vision of the developers and your own.
I'd just like to bring attention to the fact that there is actually a discussion on feedback which is also larger than other class feedback threads themselves as well. also, he oughtn't be speaking for the dev's. it's been stated that tactician/protector will be looked at next i might continue to add, and it is simply paramount to the class at this stage for actual feedback to come to light.
I kinda agree with you, in the sense that what the class should aim is to be hard to die and support the team, but our DPS is way too low to be competent, it's just too low... my GF is outDPS 4x times by a good geared GWF, but my GF isn't 4x times harder to kill, that's what I don't understand... if they are gonna make us goods Tanks (that, BTW... this game doesn't need) then we should be notoriously harder to kill than a GWF, but we aren't (we will in Mod 4 if we compare with a Destroyer, but then we have Sentinels), so if you sum the facts that more Tankiness isn't needed in PvE, and that we can actually give some buffs (Mark which reduce 8% DR and now gives Combat Advantage, KV, Into the Fay, etc...), then I would go for DPS, and we could be more desirable in Dungeons and not a Dead Weight, and I'm not even speaking about a great change, just a slightly rework to make us still be one of the lowest DPS class, but with a slightly more DPS...
(IMO, it doesn't matter if we become almost, as good as a DC in support and have 10 billion HP, ppl here only want DPS... and it's not their fault, the dungeons are too easy).
The goal isn't to be 4x harder to kill.
The goal is to be able to handle 4x as much threat and survive. RIght now on live, GFs can't do that. Which is exactly why we are in this rut.
I don't mean to be rude, but what you and the developers have in mind is clearly limiting how people want to play the class. I want diversity. I do not want to destroy the way you play but to reinforce the way I play a GF. You, on the other hand, seem to want to destroy the way many players play their GF. The community is clearly not in line with what the devs are presenting for the GF. This is evident by the huge thread discussing the changes to the GF which is twice as big as that of any other class so there is clearly a problem with the vision of the developers and your own.
I'm trying to figure our how I'm destroying the class. How has anything I have suggested taken away from what GFs already have DPS wise on test or live? Answer: it doesn't.
Yes, and the resounding consensus is the lame "MOAR DPS" cry, when it has been stated time and time again that is not the goal of the class.
Class mechanics get ruined quickly because everyone wants to do everything where at no point in the game is it required. Not only that, but it makes the game considerably easier - as if NW wasn't easy enough. Just look at TRs.
People want more dps and that just is not going to happen. Crush said that GF is not suppose to be a dps class. That is fine with me. I didnt make my GF to be a dps monster. I wanted him to be a tank, since usually the sword and board character is the tank. However there are several problems about GF being a tank.
The first problem is that most of the other classes have more survivability than a GF. A GF cant even come close to what a HR or GWF can do. There are 2 major reasons for this. The first is the exremely low deflect rate. Deflect plays a major role in survivability and GF just do not have a way to get within 20% of most of the other classes without completely gimping themselves.
The second problem is the non consistant block. Since we are not allowed to use encounter or pretty much anything while blocking, it is hard to position mobs/players. Blocking is our form of defense like other character teleports etc. Say a person is infront of you and behind you and both are doing an encounter you want to stop. A wizard, hunter or whatever just uses thier shift ability and it avoids it. This is not possible for a GF because we are 100% of the time vulnerable to our back. No other class has this weakness.
Since it was stated we were not suppose to be dps, then let us be tanks. And as a tank we should not be the only class without a reliable defense.
deflection is tied to your weapon. i'm sorry but it is. as is critical. i hate discuss power but that's also defensive since it linked to healing.
lifesteal, also. tied to your weapon damage.
i'm not sure about ac, that a different story. dr i don't think has anything do with equipment.
i'm typing different yes, but i'm tired of debating on different turf with some of you. this is not a dps>tank argument.
i have posted this numerous places throughout the forums over the weekend. please think about it.
People want more dps and that just is not going to happen. Crush said that GF is not suppose to be a dps class. That is fine with me. I didnt make my GF to be a dps monster. I wanted him to be a tank, since usually the sword and board character is the tank. However there are several problems about GF being a tank.
The first problem is that most of the other classes have more survivability than a GF. A GF cant even come close to what a HR or GWF can do. There are 2 major reasons for this. The first is the exremely low deflect rate. Deflect plays a major role in survivability and GF just do not have a way to get within 20% of most of the other classes without completely gimping themselves.
The second problem is the non consistant block. Since we are not allowed to use encounter or pretty much anything while blocking, it is hard to position mobs/players. Blocking is our form of defense like other character teleports etc. Say a person is infront of you and behind you and both are doing an encounter you want to stop. A wizard, hunter or whatever just uses thier shift ability and it avoids it. This is not possible for a GF because we are 100% of the time vulnerable to our back. No other class has this weakness.
Since it was stated we were not suppose to be dps, then let us be tanks. And as a tank we should not be the only class without a reliable defense.
weapon damage works like an ability believe it or not - not a skill. please, drop the dps>tank argument.
it is not physical damage. it is not damage. it is weapon damage.
no all our skills are based around weapon damage even enchants are based off that haveing low end weapon damage does not help the class any.
deflection has nothing to due with weapons at all it's just a stat but one that as a "tank" class is gimped from ever haveing enough of while HR'S and GWF nearly double our deflect.
see my above post if they are going to force us into a tank roll then for godsake make us a viable tank we need more DR than a GWF more DEflect than a GWF or HR and we definately need our at wills and skills to do 10% more dmg why can these classes hit 40% DR and 45% deflect without haveing to sacrafice any other stat is insane to me these 2 classes alone are better tanks than GF's could ever hope to be in the current meta.
these things need to happen in hopes of redeeming the tank factor it's getting close to 100 pages of nothing and all we got to show for it is a decrease in our movement speed while blocking
ill say it again.
feedback
1. our damage needs to be boosted on all at wills by i would say 10% maybe more
2. our horrendously broken block on preview needs to be fixed ASAP
3. we need to have at least 10-15% more DR than any GWF should ever have
4. our protector capstone should give us 10% deflect heck we could even use more deflect maybe dex should give us 1% per point .GWF can hit over 40% at max GF's can hit 30% with having to sacrafice other stats this shouldnt happen it should come naturally to us these are problems with development since GWF are way ahead of us in the curve and if we truly are suppose to be a tank class then make us one dont just say it.
5. all our abilitys that help a group should be buffed by 15%
6.we are not a tank class but we could be with the right changes GF"S definately need more survivability if this is going to happen since crush has stated we are suppose to be the tanks of this game but our role has been replaced by GWF.
oh i see. yes. enchants are seperate.
but skills and therefore feats 99.999% of the time rely on weapon damage to function.
that's why weapon damage. most people don't know what that means.
but don't you think our deflect/crit/dr caps are low for the same reason our weapon damage is low?
p.s.-- i think, it is an integer.
abillities are multipliers. -a.k.a. modifiers. they're merely enchants themselves...
as in,
what is infinity * zero = ?
that is why people say delete the class occassionally
oh i see. yes. enchants are seperate.
but skills and therefore feats 99.999% of the time rely on weapon damage to function.
that's why weapon damage. most people don't know what that means.
but don't you think our deflect/crit/dr caps are low for the same reason our weapon damage is low?
no they are low because most of our gear has no crit on it at all, and the deflection is so low because we have no skills or feats that boost this in any significant amount save for plate agility and thats by a measley 5% where as GWF get bravery which gives them 14% deflect and weapon master slotted gives them a cool extra 10% so this class gets a free 24% deflect chance alone that completely trumps our one and only skill by 4x as much it's just silly and a bit redundant to call us the "tank".
in fact plate agility should just give our class a cool 20% deflect just for going 5/5 but it doesnt were stuck with 5% and GWF sent capstone gives them 20% extra DR i mean come on really all our protector capstone does is decrease enemy damage by 20%(on preview) something is wrong here.
on live right now i have 51% DR thats about as much as i could possibly get without haveing to sacrafice alot. our DR should easily hit 60% or if not we should have at least 45-50% deflect easy most GF's can only get around 20-25% something is broken where we are not even close to becomeing tanks and it is in our defense.
I guess my only point is that since he said that they'll fix the shield clamping damage resistance at 80% first, they went ahead and steamrolled the recent changes while we still have ~a month to go. Making the job harder on all of us. So don't panic.
By the way.
Feedback: Guard Walk Speed
I think 85% is still a little bit too high. 75% is fine with me.
yes he said that but instead we got the movement speed fix so im not gonna hold my breath on that one we still have major unresolved issues with our defenses.
omg so now you want to nerf movement speed? have you tried it 85% is perfect i agree 100% was a bit much but on prieview it feels just right any less and it wouldnt help us any. GF'a have always had horrendous mobility these changes while not fixing major issues are never the less great.
Comments
So either our weapon damage needs increased drastically, or our attack speed needs to go up. It'd be so nice to actually hurt some things with at-wills and not having to mark/tide/KC/Villain's to get decent at-will damage lol
Survivability: blocking now allows damage to get through WHAT? YES THAT'S RIGHT YOU TAKE DAMAGE WHILE BLOCKING NOW
trade off more mobility while blocking= useless. more responsive key presses= useless they were fine already.
Soloist DAMAGE:cut in half due to the awful rework of reckless attacker= give us our power back and add some and then some more and a little crit we need to be able to kill.
cc: now we no longer have any cc, reduced prone so miniscule its not even there then you take away frontline surge damage and power.
we need an option if we want to be full dps vanguard gf with cc powers and high damage this will make the class viable in pvp and pve
and more ppl will play it as a result . Thanks for viewing the response from a soloist gf and part time partier.
I recently rolled every class through level 1-4. I never really have done this, preferring just to stick my head in the sand as a Guardian Fighter. Well, my main exhibit I would bring attention to is how the Trickster Rogue's Level 1 At-Will "Sly Flourish" takes into account BOTH Weapons which at first I didn't understand. The tool tip in the Character Window only identifies the Primary Weapon damage, which is 11-13. So is the Off-hand. A Level 1 GF Weapon provides 14-18. The TR Level 2 At-Will only recognizes the one weapon when actually slotted and executed, but the Character Window display both as exactly in the reverse of Sly Flourish which made me so curious and eventually downright angry. I think the best way to compare it is to the GWF Level 1 weapon which is 22-27 damage. TR Main- Off-Hand adds up to 22-26.
Every other class gets an 18-22 weapon. That includes the new Scourge Warlock and the old HR. Further, at level 10, HR gets an additional weapon for their Off-Hand. Not sure how that plays out or how their blades work exactly, but this is simply an unfair limitation.
This is not a DPS>Tank argument.
Everyone knows the "Guardian Fighter cannot do damage" and that is absolutely correct. It is actually very sincere, honest feedback.
There isn't a bigger problem in my opinion. However, I'm concerned that the reason it hasn't or won't be fixed is because it has to do with actual weapon stats itself, and would require a kind of roll-back to accomplish. (I guess).
Crit can only be fixed by a weapon damage fix. That is your cap limiter. And Power i.e. Reckless Attacker is the scape goat.
Do NOT buff weapon damage. If you are a GF who wants MOAR DAMAGE, just roll a Sentinel/IV GWF and enjoy. That takes away from the class and what it's supposed to do. With that said GF DPS, if built correctly with the right companions, is exactly where it should be, just like every cookie cutter build. Mind you, GFs aren't even built for DPS, they are all burst. We have no DPS and we shouldn't have any DPS skills, we need to maintain burst damage. The class doesn't want, nor need damage, it needs utility.
The Good:
The Dev's have literally released the intent behind the class so stick to that or go find a new game. They have done an amazing job redesigning the class to fit their intent.
The Bad:
The problem is that even on Test it's incredibly difficult to get off more than one chain because we spend more time backing away with our shield up and getting punished than anything else. Once shield goes down, we are just targets with a pretty big HP pool which causes us to get obliterated very quickly. GFs need options that negate the shield crutch and allow us to fight and win (under optimal circumstances).
My solution:
We need 2 of the 3 options here:
Inherent CC resist (20-30%)
Inherent deflect (3-5%)
Inherent DR (5-10%)
That would give us the tankiness we need to let our alpha go, actually use cleave or WMS, and let our teamates play mop up crew.
Also, with the new shield, the shield at-wills just don't work very well IMO. There is zero synergy there. I propose completely redesigning them, and have them change based on path. And give us a bit of risk v. reward play since we have none.
Swordmaster Shield At-Wills
LMB: Punishing Charge (5 second cooldown to differentiate from Threatening Rush, drains 50% of remaining guard meter)
RMB: Parry, Buff Skill (15 second cooldown, immediately reflect 20% of damage done to you and daze target for 1 second on next attack, buff lasts 1 second. Drains 25% of remaining guard meter.)
Iron Vanguard
LMB: Reckless Warcry (15 second cooldown. Roar with no disrupt, only knockback. Drains 50% of remaining guard meter.)
RMB: Shield Wall (Basically old shield except it doesn't drain stamina, you can't move, you can't attack, and it lasts 3 seconds. Could possible create a small circle and prevent all damage in it during that time. 15 second cooldown, drains 25% of total guard meter)
What does this do? For Swordmaster, it gives him a bit of utility to close the distance and to deflect damage, overall the ability to get an advantage with his shield outside of just running around blocking ****. It means he can't just be recklessly 1v1'd with no regard to his skills or equipment. It means that BIG one shot Ice Knife might not always be a good idea. Swordmaster's have always done relatively decent damage in PVP and have good defenses to match, this just adds utility to the box.
Iron Vanguard? When I think IV I think someone who is going to require the enemy team to focus on them or face destruction. In order to prevent the instagib, he/she will need a bit of utility. I believe this will make the IV much harder to kill or deal with when he's alone and unafraid keeping mobs off people or players off points. Shield Wall gives the IV the crucial time he needs to recharge his next skill safely in melee range (GWFs have unstoppable/sprint, HRs are OP as hell, TRs have stealth and ITC, CWs have Range and control, Clerics have the rest of their fully healed team).
This belongs in discussion, not the feedback thread.
It doesn't need to be that drastic at all.
This is a base stat that has a lot more weight than most things. It may seem like 12.5% is a funny rabbit-out of the-hat number, but it's not. In fact, I would not be surprised if the our base damage is actually 88.5% from the get go.
Example.
Battle Trample - Tactician Feat - Tier 2
When Trample The Fallen would cause you to deal more damage, you also gain 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage in Threat and deal 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage as Physical Damage.
Tests show a "broken mechanic" is evidently somewhere.
I am not sure but I think that just means 25% of our weapon damage in addition for each hit. I'm not sure which calculations that weapon damage goes into when multiplying the damage occurs. When I've tested it seems like it literally just adds 25% of our weapon damage to the final number, of course it gets mitigated, so it had seemed somewhat pointless.
I kinda agree with you, in the sense that what the class should aim is to be hard to die and support the team, but our DPS is way too low to be competent, it's just too low... my GF is outDPS 4x times by a good geared GWF, but my GF isn't 4x times harder to kill, that's what I don't understand... if they are gonna make us goods Tanks (that, BTW... this game doesn't need) then we should be notoriously harder to kill than a GWF, but we aren't (we will in Mod 4 if we compare with a Destroyer, but then we have Sentinels), so if you sum the facts that more Tankiness isn't needed in PvE, and that we can actually give some buffs (Mark which reduce 8% DR and now gives Combat Advantage, KV, Into the Fay, etc...), then I would go for DPS, and we could be more desirable in Dungeons and not a Dead Weight, and I'm not even speaking about a great change, just a slightly rework to make us still be one of the lowest DPS class, but with a slightly more DPS...
(IMO, it doesn't matter if we become almost, as good as a DC in support and have 10 billion HP, ppl here only want DPS... and it's not their fault, the dungeons are too easy).
I don't mean to be rude, but what you think is not in line with what the developers are aiming for.
GFs don't need anything apart from more defenses and utility. They are like the old Paladin class in EQ. They had the lowest DPS of all the fighter classes. But what they could do was tank (if no warrior present) and keep themselves sustained. Our job is very similar. DPS is not our job, nor should it be. Threat, is our job.
So you say that a 12.5% DMG is going to make us attack 88.5% more damage?, so if I pick a weapon with 500 damage and a weapon with 562.5 damage I'm gonna do 80% more damage with the 2nd one?, I don't think so, lol.
Oh ya, threat is a huge factor in PvP. I am starting to lose faith in mankind. Damage > threat. End of the story.
No, what I'm saying is the 500 dmg weapon should be 560 dmg and the 562.5 dmg weapon 632.8125 weapon ...theoretically.
And, of course, there are no static weapon damages. they're all ranges. Which should increase by 10%-12.5%.
Thank you for that perfect example.
The minimum base damage value should be increased by 10%.
The maximum base damage value should be increased by 12.5%
For instance. If it was a 500-562(?) weapon, it would become a 550-633 weapon.
I don't mean to be rude, but what you and the developers have in mind is clearly limiting how people want to play the class. I want diversity. I do not want to destroy the way you play but to reinforce the way I play a GF. You, on the other hand, seem to want to destroy the way many players play their GF. The community is clearly not in line with what the devs are presenting for the GF. This is evident by the huge thread discussing the changes to the GF which is twice as big as that of any other class so there is clearly a problem with the vision of the developers and your own.
thank you elve
The goal isn't to be 4x harder to kill.
The goal is to be able to handle 4x as much threat and survive. RIght now on live, GFs can't do that. Which is exactly why we are in this rut.
I'm trying to figure our how I'm destroying the class. How has anything I have suggested taken away from what GFs already have DPS wise on test or live? Answer: it doesn't.
Yes, and the resounding consensus is the lame "MOAR DPS" cry, when it has been stated time and time again that is not the goal of the class.
Class mechanics get ruined quickly because everyone wants to do everything where at no point in the game is it required. Not only that, but it makes the game considerably easier - as if NW wasn't easy enough. Just look at TRs.
The first problem is that most of the other classes have more survivability than a GF. A GF cant even come close to what a HR or GWF can do. There are 2 major reasons for this. The first is the exremely low deflect rate. Deflect plays a major role in survivability and GF just do not have a way to get within 20% of most of the other classes without completely gimping themselves.
The second problem is the non consistant block. Since we are not allowed to use encounter or pretty much anything while blocking, it is hard to position mobs/players. Blocking is our form of defense like other character teleports etc. Say a person is infront of you and behind you and both are doing an encounter you want to stop. A wizard, hunter or whatever just uses thier shift ability and it avoids it. This is not possible for a GF because we are 100% of the time vulnerable to our back. No other class has this weakness.
Since it was stated we were not suppose to be dps, then let us be tanks. And as a tank we should not be the only class without a reliable defense.
Here is the order of rating potentials.
1st) gwf
2nd) tr (nearly tied)
all tied for 3rd)
sw
hr
cw
dc
dead last)
gf
guess what? all of these are set in the same manner as weapon damage.
there goes your deflection argument.
lifesteal, also. tied to your weapon damage.
i'm not sure about ac, that a different story. dr i don't think has anything do with equipment.
i'm typing different yes, but i'm tired of debating on different turf with some of you. this is not a dps>tank argument.
i have posted this numerous places throughout the forums over the weekend. please think about it.
100% truth right here.
it is not physical damage. it is not damage. it is weapon damage.
no all our skills are based around weapon damage even enchants are based off that haveing low end weapon damage does not help the class any.
deflection has nothing to due with weapons at all it's just a stat but one that as a "tank" class is gimped from ever haveing enough of while HR'S and GWF nearly double our deflect.
see my above post if they are going to force us into a tank roll then for godsake make us a viable tank we need more DR than a GWF more DEflect than a GWF or HR and we definately need our at wills and skills to do 10% more dmg why can these classes hit 40% DR and 45% deflect without haveing to sacrafice any other stat is insane to me these 2 classes alone are better tanks than GF's could ever hope to be in the current meta.
these things need to happen in hopes of redeeming the tank factor it's getting close to 100 pages of nothing and all we got to show for it is a decrease in our movement speed while blocking
ill say it again.
feedback
1. our damage needs to be boosted on all at wills by i would say 10% maybe more
2. our horrendously broken block on preview needs to be fixed ASAP
3. we need to have at least 10-15% more DR than any GWF should ever have
4. our protector capstone should give us 10% deflect heck we could even use more deflect maybe dex should give us 1% per point .GWF can hit over 40% at max GF's can hit 30% with having to sacrafice other stats this shouldnt happen it should come naturally to us these are problems with development since GWF are way ahead of us in the curve and if we truly are suppose to be a tank class then make us one dont just say it.
5. all our abilitys that help a group should be buffed by 15%
6.we are not a tank class but we could be with the right changes GF"S definately need more survivability if this is going to happen since crush has stated we are suppose to be the tanks of this game but our role has been replaced by GWF.
but skills and therefore feats 99.999% of the time rely on weapon damage to function.
that's why weapon damage. most people don't know what that means.
but don't you think our deflect/crit/dr caps are low for the same reason our weapon damage is low?
p.s.-- i think, it is an integer.
abillities are multipliers. -a.k.a. modifiers. they're merely enchants themselves...
as in,
what is infinity * zero = ?
that is why people say delete the class occassionally
no they are low because most of our gear has no crit on it at all, and the deflection is so low because we have no skills or feats that boost this in any significant amount save for plate agility and thats by a measley 5% where as GWF get bravery which gives them 14% deflect and weapon master slotted gives them a cool extra 10% so this class gets a free 24% deflect chance alone that completely trumps our one and only skill by 4x as much it's just silly and a bit redundant to call us the "tank".
in fact plate agility should just give our class a cool 20% deflect just for going 5/5 but it doesnt were stuck with 5% and GWF sent capstone gives them 20% extra DR i mean come on really all our protector capstone does is decrease enemy damage by 20%(on preview) something is wrong here.
on live right now i have 51% DR thats about as much as i could possibly get without haveing to sacrafice alot. our DR should easily hit 60% or if not we should have at least 45-50% deflect easy most GF's can only get around 20-25% something is broken where we are not even close to becomeing tanks and it is in our defense.
feedback
increase plate agility to 20%
yes he said that but instead we got the movement speed fix so im not gonna hold my breath on that one we still have major unresolved issues with our defenses.
omg so now you want to nerf movement speed? have you tried it 85% is perfect i agree 100% was a bit much but on prieview it feels just right any less and it wouldnt help us any. GF'a have always had horrendous mobility these changes while not fixing major issues are never the less great.