Roll the extra enchantment refinement cost into the cost of upgrade and eliminate having to have another rank 7, 8, or 9 as a reagent. You already have catalysts required, so people are still going to use wards. This would simplify it quite a bit.
Example:
Currently on Test = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 34560 refinement points + Epic Mark/Matching rank 7.
With matching enchant removal = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 51950 refinement points + Epic Mark.
All I did in the example is roll the refinement cost of going from rank 1 -> rank 7 into the cost of going from rank 7 to rank 8.
It does reduce the mark requirements, but greatly simplifies the system as a whole.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2013
Feedback: general: experiences of a completely new character under this refinement system To be clear, the one boost I have given my tester ranger is many, many skill kits, to open every node he comes across. But he's got no higher level enchantments than what he can make from what he finds, and no supplemental ADs from the outside world. In a fully populated environment, he'd have been able to start out slightly richer from Blacklake skirmish runs, at least. But as-is, it's a good test case for a player who is not maximizing their AD income.
Since, he's only done up to Blackdagger, which is the first area where enchantments start dropping from nodes outside of instances, further observation of drop rates is still needed. I did not expect to find any marks in skill nodes in Blacklake or Tower, since they don't drop enchants.
The level 15 box contained 5 minor marks, of which I lost 2 to a single failed upgrade. Basically, you get enough free to see how they work, and to build up all your runes and enchantments completely from scratch, you will need to buy some of these marks from the WB. Ok, fine, they're really inexpensive. 25AD isn't much. One foundry daily and I didn't really need to worry about the cost, even when I failed a few other upgrades using them. *But* those losses still stung a little. Rank 1s drop like candy as soon as you start getting enchant drops at all. In the fuse-four system, there's a low chance of failure, and if it bites you, you'll get another matching rank 1 soon to try again. In this system, failure upgrading 1s and 2s dictates that you buy more marks, since the ones needed are not otherwise available. But, like I said, it's a low cost, not out of reach. Some players will balk at paying even that small cost though, like they balk at buying the 15AD identification scrolls. Their point being that every AD spent on these small incidentals is one they don't have towards major expenses later. Fair enough.
If you're with me so far, I've managed to make myself a bunch of rank 3 items, which I have happily slotted into my gear and my cleric companion, and been refining and upgrading them in place. The recovery costs in silver and copper are extremely affordable when I get a gear upgrade, basically covered by vendoring the old item after I get my enchantment out of it. But I'm still picking up a ton of both rank 1 and now 2 enchants. Very quickly, I have fully refined and am ready to upgrade the rank 3s to rank 4s, for which I need a new kind of mark, costing 10x as much as the previous ones. Ok, that would eat though my available ADs too quickly for my liking, but they can drop from skill nodes? Let's see about finding some then. Meanwhile, I am sitting on a ton of rank 1s and 2s I can't add to my slotted ones until after I upgrade, but that I want to save for refining points when I do. I go so far as to make another rank 3 of some enchantment types once I have more gear with slots. Mostly, my searching for marks nets me even more runes and enchantments. I find two marks, one in a skill node and one in a multi-lootable chest (good!). I successfully make one rank 4 radiant enchantment. My other attempt at making a rank 4 fails, and I am quite bummed out. That mark was hard to find (but would never be worth using a preservation ward to protect, even if I had one).
Once you get past the rank 4 wall, you can feed a lot of rank 1s and 2s into it, so you're back to the point of freeing up inventory space. I'm nowhere near being able to try for a rank 5 radiant, but when I am, it will take 2 more of the elusive marks, *if* successful on the first try.
I will say, with an artifact added to the mix, it's possible to clear all the inventory clutter into feeding that instead, if really pressed. So far, I've just been using the white pearls and training runestones on my artifact. But I kinda want to use the matching enchants on matching enchants, as much as possible.
What I'd like to see is for the marks in skill nodes to drop with the frequency of an uncommon skill node drop such as residuum. I think that would probably put them at about the right level to not be such a hard block to advancement, since the statement was that players are basically expected to find enough of these items to meet their needs, with purchasing them simply available as a convenience option. Please remember that node farming has already been throttled with a flag to drop only junk items after looting x nodes in y time. It is probably also worth considering having them drop from monsters, again with the frequency of uncommon crafting resources. That's what feels right.
I will continue adventuring and observing, to see if the drop rates increase at all with access to nodes with a higher quality of loot. I will also note that although I looted many nodes during profession bonus time, the marks I did find were obtained outside of that window.
I like the system. I like that my inventory is - for the most part - less full of partial stacks of mismatched gems. I like not being worried about using my enchantments, especially while being able to work towards making the ones I'm actively using better. That part even feels more involved and personal, in a way. But there's definitely a choke point with starting to need the green marks while you're in your level 20s, can't find any, and don't have the ADs to buy them.
Feedback: general: how I'll actually use the system As a player who's been around since open beta, an obsessive node looter, an incorrigible hoarder, and utter cheapskate, I already have many rank 5s, some 6s, and even a few 7s and 8s, mostly sitting in inventory waiting for something worth putting them in. I am now basically waiting for the new system to be implemented in order to slot all my best enchantments into whatever characters are wearing, even if it's not the best gear, and will be using all rank 1-4s for refining points only. The collective's inventory clutter will be incredibly reduced. I don't think I'll ever actually need minor or lesser marks for anything, as all my characters will be feeding their enchant drops into the factory, rather than working up from scratch. I will need the blue marks, which I won't hesitate to protect with preservation wards, which means a failed upgrade will be a minor inconvenience rather than a brick wall. Upgrades from 5+ will require a lot of refining points, which will give me more time to amass the other needed resources.
Overall, it's a great system for an established player. But concerns I and others have previously expressed in this thread about how it will be for someone starting out have played out in testing exactly how I was worried they would.
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited November 2013
I have been playing with this and I really like the basic idea...and I love the gold cost for removing enchants - finally something to do with my spare gold - I wouldn't mind paying more for removing higher-end enchants, though (and less for the lower-end ones).
However, I have been trying to estimate what effect the new system will have on AH enchant prices, and I am getting some odd results.....has anyone else actually done those calculations - calculating, say what it would cost to go from a typical rank-5 enchant to a rank 9, for example? I think I must be doing something wrong......
Hoping for improvements...
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Roll the extra enchantment refinement cost into the cost of upgrade and eliminate having to have another rank 7, 8, or 9 as a reagent. You already have catalysts required, so people are still going to use wards. This would simplify it quite a bit.
Example:
Currently on Test = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 34560 refinement points + Epic Mark/Matching rank 7.
With matching enchant removal = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 51950 refinement points + Epic Mark.
All I did in the example is roll the refinement cost of going from rank 1 -> rank 7 into the cost of going from rank 7 to rank 8.
It does reduce the mark requirements, but greatly simplifies the system as a whole.
Great idea! I totally second that! It would make the system a lot easier!
Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
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saerraelMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Attempt upgrade.
In my opinion, this takes way too long. Where I can understand it from a tension building pov, I can't understand it when attempting to upgrade more than one item in a row. (Or when I am using green wards and fail, repeatedly >.> )
dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Feedback: Refining Stones from leadership chests I tested the large chest of goods and the barrel. The chest only drops white pearls (1 at a time) and the the barrel only dropped minor mark of potency (2 at a time). At the very least the large chest of goods (which is blue quality) should be dropping green refining stones and marks. The barrel should also include the white pearl as a drop. They also both need to have their description updated to include the fact that they drop refining stones now.
Also what about the coffer of wondrous augmentation? Any chance it can drop the higher quality marks?
Finally (in the Sanatorium in Helm's Hold) got a Mark of Potency drop from a skill node.
Feedback: Mark Drop Rate Still needs to be higher, with looting every node I come across (using my Adventurous Shopkeeper to ensure I have the right kits) that 1 was way, way too late to be useful.
Feedback: Skill Node Usability Skill nodes are currently 1 use locations that respawn, with this change in Dungeons they need to become Party Use items like most chests. Otherwise pugs become a nightmare of "who gets to the node first" as the most valuable thing outside the boss gear drops in dungeons is quickly going to become the skill nodes. Or alternatively get Marks as rare mob drops in dungeons as well.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
1
dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Feedback: Skill Node Usability Skill nodes are currently 1 use locations that respawn, with this change in Dungeons they need to become Party Use items like most chests. Otherwise pugs become a nightmare of "who gets to the node first" as the most valuable thing outside the boss gear drops in dungeons is quickly going to become the skill nodes. Or alternatively get Marks as rare mob drops in dungeons as well.
The other option would be that is a mark comes out of a node, it goes up for group roll. But yeah, there needs to be something so it isn't a rush towards nodes.
For anyone that actually thinks that cyrptic intends this new system to make it easier to rank up enchantments. Ask yourself why did they lower the number of enchants found in skill nodes a few patches back. Yes I know, "to discourage the bots." But it didn't really hurt the bots, they just run longer, it hurt regular players.
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lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited November 2013
So bassically now i need six Rank 7 enchants to make one Rank 8 (1 to refine, 4 to get exp and one as reagent). In which way it is improvement ? This system support Rank 4 bot farmers. I can just unslot all my enchants right now, sell them and buy as many Rank 4 enchants as i can and wait for new module. I like:
- Possibility to exp sloted enchants
- Less cost of unslotting enchants
- Way how it work up to Rank 6
- Possibility to exp enchant(radiant) with different type of enchants(silvery) for lower amount of exp I hate:
- Need for enchant reagent
- Low amount of exp for higher level rank enchants
My proposal:
You can exp your enchants in slots. You get the same amount of exp for Rank 7 enchants and his Rank 4 equivalent (no low level ranks favouritization). You don't need additional reagent in form of enchants (mark of potency is fine).
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited November 2013
Luruj, that is not the way it works. You can use lower lvl enchantments and/or shards to fill the points until you are able to upgrade it. You only need 2 enchantments of the same level, according to your picture, you need only two azure r9, 1 that you want to upgrade and 2 the reagent.
There is no reason to keep enchantments in the inventory now unless those you want to upgrade since each one we get will be used in order to get RP.
Luruj, that is not the way it works. You can use lower lvl enchantments and/or shards to fill the points until you are able to upgrade it. You only need 2 enchantments of the same level, according to your picture, you need only two azure r9, 1 that you want to upgrade and 2 the reagent.
There is no reason to keep enchantments in the inventory now unless those you want to upgrade since each one we get will be used in order to get RP.
No, you'll still need to keep enchants in the inventory to use as reagents.
let's say you have seven slots on your gear, all with R7 enchants slotted and full RP. In order to upgrade to R8 you will need another seven R7s to act as reagents. So that's seven slots in your inventory until they're RP'd up. Fair enough. But then if you want to go to R9, you will need another seven R8s, only first you need to get another seven R7s upgraded so you'll you need another seven R7s to use as reagents to get to R8 before you can combine them with the ones you have slotted. That means 14 inventory spaces. It's a mess and it doesn't save you any inventory space except at lower levels.
Of course you could just do one at a time, which is probably what the devs assumed. But they still haven't learned that how they think we play the game is nothing like how we actually play the game.
No, you'll still need to keep enchants in the inventory to use as reagents.
let's say you have seven slots on your gear, all with R7 enchants slotted and full RP. In order to upgrade to R8 you will need another seven R7s to act as reagents. So that's seven slots in your inventory until they're RP'd up. Fair enough. But then if you want to go to R9, you will need another seven R8s, only first you need to get another seven R7s upgraded so you'll you need another seven R7s to use as reagents to get to R8 before you can combine them with the ones you have slotted. That means 14 inventory spaces. It's a mess and it doesn't save you any inventory space except at lower levels.
Of course you could just do one at a time, which is probably what the devs assumed. But they still haven't learned that how they think we play the game is nothing like how we actually play the game.
Show me how you will keep up 7 fusings on Live server and on PTS without charcopies. Your problem not exist. You haven't the RP to fuse all gearslots continuous up. Second you can select at which time you want to fuse. So your 14 Inventory spaces are a joke. Currently i have over 40 slots filled with R3 and R4 and 5 with R5+6. And i don't fuse higher withoug having the needed Fusing material(if i do i will get even more slots filled with unusable enchantments).
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lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited November 2013
I know i can use lower level enchants but what if i have 60xRank 7 enchants and i want to use them to upgrade to Rank 9 ? It is totally not worth to use Rank 7 as exp enchants. It is better to sell them and buy Rank 4 enchants. This is ridiculous.
I know i can use lower level enchants but what if i have 60xRank 7 enchants and i want to use them to upgrade to Rank 9 ? It is totally not worth to use Rank 7 as exp enchants. It is better to sell them and buy Rank 4 enchants. This is ridiculous.
What you Q.Q that rank 6 get cheaper on Ah? It's not our fail that you have 60 Rank 7.
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lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited November 2013
I must Q.Q you but i don't have 60xRank7. I just point out that this system is not so fair and square as some people think.
I must Q.Q you but i don't have 60xRank7. I just point out that this system is not so fair and square as some people think.
THe current system isn't fair with it's massiv steps needed. The new one is much fairer. You don't need to fuse any enchantment the whole step up. You can use what ever you will. You can fuse the enchantment in your gear without removing them.
The only disadvantage are the marks. But if they drop good at epics, then this point is negate.
Roll the extra enchantment refinement cost into the cost of upgrade and eliminate having to have another rank 7, 8, or 9 as a reagent. You already have catalysts required, so people are still going to use wards. This would simplify it quite a bit.
Example:
Currently on Test = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 34560 refinement points + Epic Mark/Matching rank 7.
With matching enchant removal = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 51950 refinement points + Epic Mark.
All I did in the example is roll the refinement cost of going from rank 1 -> rank 7 into the cost of going from rank 7 to rank 8.
It does reduce the mark requirements, but greatly simplifies the system as a whole.
+1 for that.
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fistiganMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited November 2013
I am furious Having to use a -1 lessor grade enchant as a reagent is absolutely ridiculous. Making a Perfect Thunderhead and I have to use a Greater Thunderhead for a reagent when I have one already that is going to upgraded? are you serious? If anything you should be using the refining stones and the Greater already made should be the one used up in creation of the Perfect not being required to have an extra on ... Its hard enough to get one let alone one to throw away in the upgrade process. The only reason I can make it is the char. copy tool I think if you want to push people over the edge you may have just found your catalyst for that. This system as such.... NOT Viable.
I am furious Having to use a -1 lessor grade enchant as a reagent is absolutely ridiculous. Making a Perfect Thunderhead and I have to use a Greater Thunderhead for a reagent when I have one already that is going to upgraded? are you serious? If anything you should be using the refining stones and the Greater already made should be the one used up in creation of the Perfect not being required to have an extra on ... Its hard enough to get one let alone one to throw away in the upgrade process. The only reason I can make it is the char. copy tool I think if you want to push people over the edge you may have just found your catalyst for that. This system as such.... NOT Viable.
You still need only 2 greater ones to make a perfect, not 4 as it is now as you can refine whatever to fill the bar.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think removing coffers of wondrous augmentation is a good idea, but only if there is also some way for people to grind for coal wards without having to get them through zen store or tarmalune bars.
Also I want to mention that AD currently has no real sinks except the auction house 10% fee and cats. Refining enchantments is a good place to place AD sinks, and I think it should be implemented again. I think either provide a vendor that sells coal wards at 200k AD each in order to cap the price there, or allow coal wards to be received as a rare chest reward for skirmishes or dungeons, and then bring back refining AD costs, maybe at half the previous amount.
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baylen76Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
No real AD sinks? Each and every use of AD (zen exchange is no use as it's just a transfer), without exception, leads directly into a sink - at least 10%, at max 100%. Nvidia promo ending End of Dec (less influx) and people wanting to bolster their GS by ranking up companions (green to purple: -1.250.000 AD each) will be draining AD quite madly, quite soon, in my estimation.
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think removing coffers of wondrous augmentation is a good idea, but only if there is also some way for people to grind for coal wards without having to get them through zen store or tarmalune bars.
Also I want to mention that AD currently has no real sinks except the auction house 10% fee and cats. Refining enchantments is a good place to place AD sinks, and I think it should be implemented again. I think either provide a vendor that sells coal wards at 200k AD each in order to cap the price there, or allow coal wards to be received as a rare chest reward for skirmishes or dungeons, and then bring back refining AD costs, maybe at half the previous amount.
Transmutation is an AD sink, Mount upgrading is an AD sink, Companion upgrading is an AD sink. The problem with AD sinks in this game is that there are relatively few of them but the ones that are there are expensive as hell. Cryptic doesn't understand the meaning of "Less is more." (as is apparent from the zen store prices).
Transmutation, mount upgrading, and companion upgrades are ad sinks that aren't used by the majority of players, and the amount they remove from the economy is far less than ad refining costs could remove. If you haven't noticed, AD has become so common the zen ad ratio is at 400:1, 100 away from the cap. Goodbye.
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baylen76Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
I don't really want to derail this further, but I think there are other causes to your observation.
The exchange rate is not directly linked to AD drains. If zen becomes more attractive (Lillend, upcoming Companion buffs, discounts on services) AD/zen goes up. Additionally, Waukeen and Nvidia promo recently caused AD influx into the economy, and neither is directly related to the effectivity of present sinks/drains.
I'm just trying to understand here. Are you basically just asking for more/new things to spend your AD on? I can't quite see why anyone would ask for things to become more expensive when there are already better things to spend your AD on; in addition to a plethora of things on the auction house you could just buy.
baylen, without ad sinks, the market will be flooded with ad to the point it is as useless as gold. It wasn't that long ago that AD to zen ratio was 300:1, and now it has been hovering at 400:1 for weeks even though the key and preservation ward sales are gone. It is inevitable for it to hit 500:1 without AD sinks, and when that happens there will be a long waiting list of people trying to get zen with their AD because everyone will make listings of 500 ad. Maybe they'll lift the cap and fix that problem, but I'd prefer for there to be ad sinks and to make up for it by making coalescent wards accessible by means other than tarmalune bars and zen store. Personally I don't care either way because I've invested properly to avoid whatever crapstorm will happen with module 2 and will be able to get as many high rank enchants as I need regardless of what happens to coal wards. My suggestion is simply one that makes more sense than the whining on the forum about coal wards.
As previous posters pointed out having skill nodes in dungeons as a source of reagents is a really bad idea. Every dungeon run will turn into a drama-fest as players fight over the chance to get a 25K item. Although I suppose this will be a non-issue if the drop rate is so low nobody bothers. However, that would be another issue of it's own.
I'm also not a fan of making two of the reagents type only available in epic dungeons. I suspect a large number of players simply don't run these dungeons. I suspect many of these players will simply not bother with enchants above tier 5. Granted they don't "need" any higher but the stated goal was to get more people involved in the enchant system. This seems to be counter productive.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited November 2013
Reduce the cost of transmutation for normal items, by half (at least) and you will have a viable AD sink.
Allow for the re-skinning of mounts you can acquire in-game over purple zen purchased mounts and you will have a viable AD sink.
Allow for the purchase of keys to unlock dungeon chests outside of DD events and you have a viable AD sink. (which is being implemented)
Create options that people can spend their AD on at a reasonable cost and you create "feel good" AD sinks that people appreciate and use.
Create forced AD sinks that people resent and they will stop playing your game.
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Transmutation, mount upgrading, and companion upgrades are ad sinks that aren't used by the majority of players, and the amount they remove from the economy is far less than ad refining costs could remove. If you haven't noticed, AD has become so common the zen ad ratio is at 400:1, 100 away from the cap. Goodbye.
First of all I was actually agreeing with you so don't be a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
would you not be more inclined to spend 3,000 AD 10 times or more throughout a character progression or 25,000 AD one time once you hit 60 for something such as transmutation?
I also agree with removing the Coffer of Wondrous Augmentation as long as there is an alternative way to get them and setting an AD price would be a great way to do that
One thing I disagree with though is costing AD to attempt a refine the way it was. Already you are going to be buying catalysts for every failure AND the coal wards I think 2 AD sinks is enough to not need the third.
Comments
Example:
Currently on Test = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 34560 refinement points + Epic Mark/Matching rank 7.
With matching enchant removal = Rank 7 -> Rank 8 requires 51950 refinement points + Epic Mark.
All I did in the example is roll the refinement cost of going from rank 1 -> rank 7 into the cost of going from rank 7 to rank 8.
It does reduce the mark requirements, but greatly simplifies the system as a whole.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
To be clear, the one boost I have given my tester ranger is many, many skill kits, to open every node he comes across. But he's got no higher level enchantments than what he can make from what he finds, and no supplemental ADs from the outside world. In a fully populated environment, he'd have been able to start out slightly richer from Blacklake skirmish runs, at least. But as-is, it's a good test case for a player who is not maximizing their AD income.
Since, he's only done up to Blackdagger, which is the first area where enchantments start dropping from nodes outside of instances, further observation of drop rates is still needed. I did not expect to find any marks in skill nodes in Blacklake or Tower, since they don't drop enchants.
The level 15 box contained 5 minor marks, of which I lost 2 to a single failed upgrade. Basically, you get enough free to see how they work, and to build up all your runes and enchantments completely from scratch, you will need to buy some of these marks from the WB. Ok, fine, they're really inexpensive. 25AD isn't much. One foundry daily and I didn't really need to worry about the cost, even when I failed a few other upgrades using them. *But* those losses still stung a little. Rank 1s drop like candy as soon as you start getting enchant drops at all. In the fuse-four system, there's a low chance of failure, and if it bites you, you'll get another matching rank 1 soon to try again. In this system, failure upgrading 1s and 2s dictates that you buy more marks, since the ones needed are not otherwise available. But, like I said, it's a low cost, not out of reach. Some players will balk at paying even that small cost though, like they balk at buying the 15AD identification scrolls. Their point being that every AD spent on these small incidentals is one they don't have towards major expenses later. Fair enough.
If you're with me so far, I've managed to make myself a bunch of rank 3 items, which I have happily slotted into my gear and my cleric companion, and been refining and upgrading them in place. The recovery costs in silver and copper are extremely affordable when I get a gear upgrade, basically covered by vendoring the old item after I get my enchantment out of it. But I'm still picking up a ton of both rank 1 and now 2 enchants. Very quickly, I have fully refined and am ready to upgrade the rank 3s to rank 4s, for which I need a new kind of mark, costing 10x as much as the previous ones. Ok, that would eat though my available ADs too quickly for my liking, but they can drop from skill nodes? Let's see about finding some then. Meanwhile, I am sitting on a ton of rank 1s and 2s I can't add to my slotted ones until after I upgrade, but that I want to save for refining points when I do. I go so far as to make another rank 3 of some enchantment types once I have more gear with slots. Mostly, my searching for marks nets me even more runes and enchantments. I find two marks, one in a skill node and one in a multi-lootable chest (good!). I successfully make one rank 4 radiant enchantment. My other attempt at making a rank 4 fails, and I am quite bummed out. That mark was hard to find (but would never be worth using a preservation ward to protect, even if I had one).
Once you get past the rank 4 wall, you can feed a lot of rank 1s and 2s into it, so you're back to the point of freeing up inventory space. I'm nowhere near being able to try for a rank 5 radiant, but when I am, it will take 2 more of the elusive marks, *if* successful on the first try.
I will say, with an artifact added to the mix, it's possible to clear all the inventory clutter into feeding that instead, if really pressed. So far, I've just been using the white pearls and training runestones on my artifact. But I kinda want to use the matching enchants on matching enchants, as much as possible.
What I'd like to see is for the marks in skill nodes to drop with the frequency of an uncommon skill node drop such as residuum. I think that would probably put them at about the right level to not be such a hard block to advancement, since the statement was that players are basically expected to find enough of these items to meet their needs, with purchasing them simply available as a convenience option. Please remember that node farming has already been throttled with a flag to drop only junk items after looting x nodes in y time. It is probably also worth considering having them drop from monsters, again with the frequency of uncommon crafting resources. That's what feels right.
I will continue adventuring and observing, to see if the drop rates increase at all with access to nodes with a higher quality of loot. I will also note that although I looted many nodes during profession bonus time, the marks I did find were obtained outside of that window.
I like the system. I like that my inventory is - for the most part - less full of partial stacks of mismatched gems. I like not being worried about using my enchantments, especially while being able to work towards making the ones I'm actively using better. That part even feels more involved and personal, in a way. But there's definitely a choke point with starting to need the green marks while you're in your level 20s, can't find any, and don't have the ADs to buy them.
Feedback: general: how I'll actually use the system
As a player who's been around since open beta, an obsessive node looter, an incorrigible hoarder, and utter cheapskate, I already have many rank 5s, some 6s, and even a few 7s and 8s, mostly sitting in inventory waiting for something worth putting them in. I am now basically waiting for the new system to be implemented in order to slot all my best enchantments into whatever characters are wearing, even if it's not the best gear, and will be using all rank 1-4s for refining points only. The collective's inventory clutter will be incredibly reduced. I don't think I'll ever actually need minor or lesser marks for anything, as all my characters will be feeding their enchant drops into the factory, rather than working up from scratch. I will need the blue marks, which I won't hesitate to protect with preservation wards, which means a failed upgrade will be a minor inconvenience rather than a brick wall. Upgrades from 5+ will require a lot of refining points, which will give me more time to amass the other needed resources.
Overall, it's a great system for an established player. But concerns I and others have previously expressed in this thread about how it will be for someone starting out have played out in testing exactly how I was worried they would.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
However, I have been trying to estimate what effect the new system will have on AH enchant prices, and I am getting some odd results.....has anyone else actually done those calculations - calculating, say what it would cost to go from a typical rank-5 enchant to a rank 9, for example? I think I must be doing something wrong......
In my opinion, this takes way too long. Where I can understand it from a tension building pov, I can't understand it when attempting to upgrade more than one item in a row. (Or when I am using green wards and fail, repeatedly >.> )
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I tested the large chest of goods and the barrel. The chest only drops white pearls (1 at a time) and the the barrel only dropped minor mark of potency (2 at a time). At the very least the large chest of goods (which is blue quality) should be dropping green refining stones and marks. The barrel should also include the white pearl as a drop. They also both need to have their description updated to include the fact that they drop refining stones now.
Also what about the coffer of wondrous augmentation? Any chance it can drop the higher quality marks?
Feedback: Mark Drop Rate
Still needs to be higher, with looting every node I come across (using my Adventurous Shopkeeper to ensure I have the right kits) that 1 was way, way too late to be useful.
Feedback: Skill Node Usability
Skill nodes are currently 1 use locations that respawn, with this change in Dungeons they need to become Party Use items like most chests. Otherwise pugs become a nightmare of "who gets to the node first" as the most valuable thing outside the boss gear drops in dungeons is quickly going to become the skill nodes. Or alternatively get Marks as rare mob drops in dungeons as well.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The other option would be that is a mark comes out of a node, it goes up for group roll. But yeah, there needs to be something so it isn't a rush towards nodes.
I like:
- Possibility to exp sloted enchants
- Less cost of unslotting enchants
- Way how it work up to Rank 6
- Possibility to exp enchant(radiant) with different type of enchants(silvery) for lower amount of exp
I hate:
- Need for enchant reagent
- Low amount of exp for higher level rank enchants
My proposal:
You can exp your enchants in slots. You get the same amount of exp for Rank 7 enchants and his Rank 4 equivalent (no low level ranks favouritization). You don't need additional reagent in form of enchants (mark of potency is fine).
There is no reason to keep enchantments in the inventory now unless those you want to upgrade since each one we get will be used in order to get RP.
No, you'll still need to keep enchants in the inventory to use as reagents.
let's say you have seven slots on your gear, all with R7 enchants slotted and full RP. In order to upgrade to R8 you will need another seven R7s to act as reagents. So that's seven slots in your inventory until they're RP'd up. Fair enough. But then if you want to go to R9, you will need another seven R8s, only first you need to get another seven R7s upgraded so you'll you need another seven R7s to use as reagents to get to R8 before you can combine them with the ones you have slotted. That means 14 inventory spaces. It's a mess and it doesn't save you any inventory space except at lower levels.
Of course you could just do one at a time, which is probably what the devs assumed. But they still haven't learned that how they think we play the game is nothing like how we actually play the game.
Show me how you will keep up 7 fusings on Live server and on PTS without charcopies. Your problem not exist. You haven't the RP to fuse all gearslots continuous up. Second you can select at which time you want to fuse. So your 14 Inventory spaces are a joke. Currently i have over 40 slots filled with R3 and R4 and 5 with R5+6. And i don't fuse higher withoug having the needed Fusing material(if i do i will get even more slots filled with unusable enchantments).
What you Q.Q that rank 6 get cheaper on Ah? It's not our fail that you have 60 Rank 7.
THe current system isn't fair with it's massiv steps needed. The new one is much fairer. You don't need to fuse any enchantment the whole step up. You can use what ever you will. You can fuse the enchantment in your gear without removing them.
The only disadvantage are the marks. But if they drop good at epics, then this point is negate.
For shardfusing it's more than 6 times better!
+1 for that.
You still need only 2 greater ones to make a perfect, not 4 as it is now as you can refine whatever to fill the bar.
It's true that the new process is much more lenient. However it's much much more expensive too.
Also I want to mention that AD currently has no real sinks except the auction house 10% fee and cats. Refining enchantments is a good place to place AD sinks, and I think it should be implemented again. I think either provide a vendor that sells coal wards at 200k AD each in order to cap the price there, or allow coal wards to be received as a rare chest reward for skirmishes or dungeons, and then bring back refining AD costs, maybe at half the previous amount.
Transmutation is an AD sink, Mount upgrading is an AD sink, Companion upgrading is an AD sink. The problem with AD sinks in this game is that there are relatively few of them but the ones that are there are expensive as hell. Cryptic doesn't understand the meaning of "Less is more." (as is apparent from the zen store prices).
The exchange rate is not directly linked to AD drains. If zen becomes more attractive (Lillend, upcoming Companion buffs, discounts on services) AD/zen goes up. Additionally, Waukeen and Nvidia promo recently caused AD influx into the economy, and neither is directly related to the effectivity of present sinks/drains.
I'm just trying to understand here. Are you basically just asking for more/new things to spend your AD on? I can't quite see why anyone would ask for things to become more expensive when there are already better things to spend your AD on; in addition to a plethora of things on the auction house you could just buy.
I'm also not a fan of making two of the reagents type only available in epic dungeons. I suspect a large number of players simply don't run these dungeons. I suspect many of these players will simply not bother with enchants above tier 5. Granted they don't "need" any higher but the stated goal was to get more people involved in the enchant system. This seems to be counter productive.
Allow for the re-skinning of mounts you can acquire in-game over purple zen purchased mounts and you will have a viable AD sink.
Allow for the purchase of keys to unlock dungeon chests outside of DD events and you have a viable AD sink. (which is being implemented)
Create options that people can spend their AD on at a reasonable cost and you create "feel good" AD sinks that people appreciate and use.
Create forced AD sinks that people resent and they will stop playing your game.
First of all I was actually agreeing with you so don't be a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
would you not be more inclined to spend 3,000 AD 10 times or more throughout a character progression or 25,000 AD one time once you hit 60 for something such as transmutation?
I also agree with removing the Coffer of Wondrous Augmentation as long as there is an alternative way to get them and setting an AD price would be a great way to do that
One thing I disagree with though is costing AD to attempt a refine the way it was. Already you are going to be buying catalysts for every failure AND the coal wards I think 2 AD sinks is enough to not need the third.