That net issue is tough indeed. At the very least it's great that you're still able to test from time to time. And I agree, perhaps we'll see people asking for Nature-based rangers in the LFG channels. It's a solid tree for party setups. Archery has decent DPS for both single target and AoE so far too so they will get a spot in parties for sure. Not yet sure about melee, though. Hopefully things can still change even after the HR goes live.
And I love that HR rotation! Maybe you could weave in Binding Arrow or Constricting after using the last Aimed Shot to be able to fire another Aimed Shot. It incorporates good melee and ranged in one setup which will make it versatile no matter what situation your HR is pitted against The ranged build I had in mind was a Hunter Ranger based on pure ranged attacks when it comes to DPS, firing off CC while maintaining range with Marauder's Escape and Dodge just in case people get to close. The plan is to have 33% RSI (INT + Recovery) to take down the CD of Marauder's Escape to 12 seconds flat, and taking Prime Critical + Master of Archery to turn Rapid Shot into something that rapidly reduces CD for Encounters. The other Encounters I'm planning for this type of build is Binding Arrow and Constricting Arrow with CD's of 16.6 and 13.6 respectively. And to help further reduce the CD's of the encounters to be able to fire them off faster, I'm also opting to take Stormstep Action in combination with Disruptive Shot. Fits perfectly with this type of build.
And I'd be more than happy to test with you once the HR goes live, Des! I'll need to find a decent headset before that happens though. But I'm down for more build testing for sure.
I think you can probably afford to spec for more Str / Wis than Int / Recov. Simply because Stormstep action is amazing with Disruptive shot. And If you crit? Thats 4 seconds your encounter cooldowns are reduced by. Archery will work best with High Crit Builds, hence speccing for more points into wisdom. And Str gives us base Armour Penetration as well as Stamina Regen.
I did some testing with Tiah (A control wizard from Exodus) in regards to Stamina Regen. At level 36 I had specced for an additional 20% stamina Regen. As well as the 4% I gained from my points into Str. Giving 24% stamina regen.
We timed how long it took to fill the Stamina Bars. For Tiah, it was 15 Seconds empty to full. (Thats on a CW) On the Ranger, it took 20-21 seconds. However, this is not as big an issue as it may seem? Why? Because with 24% stamina regen, It already gave me an extra dodge. Pushing the amount of dodges I could expend at one time to a maximum of 6!!
Also, because our dodges consume less stamina, we can dodge more often at the lower end of the stamina bar as well. This will be even more apparent once you have 5 spec points into the feat that increases stamina regeneration by 25% whilst in ranged stance, Combined with the 10% we can get from Heroic Feats and then the 10% stamina regen from Sharandar that gives a Base Stamina Regeneration of 45%. Now, if you take my advice and spec into Str, you can push that even higher. My Ability score roll with have 18 str, so thats another 8% Stamina Regen. Thats a Whopping 53% faster stamina regeneration.
And people think I dodge too much on my wizard as it is now.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Yes I know they made the dodge like that.
They made the whole game "like that".
This is feedback section so my feedback is the dodge distance is too short to get you out of the way, which is the entire purpose of dodge. I would rather have 4 dodges at 10feet than 5 dodges at 8feet. Because currently I have to use 2 dodges to get out of red circles. Also in pvp many player attacks are 8feet range or cone or radius. If I dodge and still end up getting hit its worthless.
Hope alot of you who complained about some skills doing too much damage are happy. You just killed the HR before it is even released to Live.
Would you care to elaborate? I don't think anyone has complained about the damage being too high. We have two abilities with the potential to hit hard. One with a clunky cast time and can be interrupted, the other, had the slowest cast animation I have seen in the game.
If anything some of our abilities need a damage increase. Especially the melee aspect.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Aimed Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 10%. Not Necessarily a bad thing, still has potential to hit hard, if damage was reduced much more I would be asking for a change to how the power currently works
Forest Ghost: The animation and visual effects of this power now play properly.Great
Forestwalk: This power now properly has a buff icon.I didn't notice that it did not previously so another good thing
Fox Shift: This power can now hit the same target twice.Another positive
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5. This will need some testing, but overall still worth slotting depending on the situation
Hindering Shot: This power's tooltip now properly mentions that it has charges.Another Positive, this was a glaring issue.
Marauder's Escape: This power no longer grants Action Points while out of combat.Thats a pity, having it generate Ap out of combat was nice.
Predatory Action: This power now properly affects Seismic Shot.Another positive, however, this will never be on my Daily bar at end game.
Rain of Arrows: This power now properly prompts the ranger to draw a bow. Visual Only. The Damage could use a slight buff
Rain of Swords: Damage numbers now properly show up from bleed ticks.Visual only.
Rapid Shot: The visual effects now consistently play when using this power.Visual. Could look cool
Rapid Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been slightly reduced.By what Percentage is the question? This was already medium to low range damage.
Seismic Shot: This power now has a targeting reticule. A great positive for those that will use this daily, especially while leveling. Still suffers from only affecting targets in your frontal arc. This hurts the power due to mob pathing.
Split Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 30%.We all knew this was coming. The fact that it was a damage reduction rather than a target cap still bodes well. IMO, should a target cap be introduced damage on this At will should be increased.
Split the Sky: The return damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 60%.This could possibly relegate the power to being useless
Thorn Ward: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 20%.See above with Split the sky. Damage reduction could relegate it to uselessness. Some testing will need to be done with both Thorn Ward and Split the sky to see effectiveness of both.
Thorn Ward: This power's duration has been reduced to 4 seconds per rank, down from 6 seconds.No a massive issue. Down to 12 seconds from 18 seconds. Has anyone seen this or Split the sky crit?
Many powers that didn't properly trigger certain effects now do. These powers include:
Grasping Roots
Rain of Arrows
Thorn Ward
(Storm Warden) Split the Sky
All positive.
The Action Point meter has been improved.
The bow string now properly shows during character creation.
The Ranged / Melee switching tutorial tip no longer shows up before the player can even use it.
The Ranged / Melee switching ability now properly has an icon.
The timing on several powers' visual effects now match up more closely with the damage dealt.
Most of this is positive, I don't think it is the end of the world as some may be thinking. I am worried about Split the Sky and Thorn Ward. Previously they allowed us to do decent AoE damage. Testing will be need to done to see if this rotation is still viable, or if our AoE potential has just been carved to pieces.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
if your going to nerf a mouse button attack at least buff the other or make a new one as an alternative the HR only has 4 as a choice, 2 being begining powers that don't scale much in damage and the last 2 have long delays in them that can be interrupted... so you expect them to just run? oh that's right no dodge and no defenses or escape features and the only skill that makes you immune to holds locks you in place while you heal... nice. if your going to nerf anything with HR nerf the melee keep the ranged powerful. your basically making ranged attacks useless to a HR if you make them so weak that a cleric can beat them with only the beginning mouse attack at only rank 1.
your not keeping in mind that HR are suppose to be high damage just like a rogue... we don't have a ton of stuns or holds like CW and we don't' have the protection of a tank or the heals of a cleric... we rely on damage to survive and you take that away we have nothing. I wouldn't mind taking away so much damage if you compensate the HR with some kind of greater survivablity like giving them the ability to move while they use that daily healing ability or making the ability give them 10 seconds or so of damage reduced by 50% or so. because its going to take much longer to kill other classes/monsters in pvp and pve with the lack of survival and damage the other classes now have over HR.
Oh Atari how I miss you!
0
werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Most of this is positive, I don't think it is the end of the world as some may be thinking. I am worried about Split the Sky and Thorn Ward. Previously they allowed us to do decent AoE damage. Testing will be need to done to see if this rotation is still viable, or if our AoE potential has just been carved to pieces.
Aimed Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 10%. Makes a hardly usable power even worse
Forest Ghost: The animation and visual effects of this power now play properly. Visual
Forestwalk: This power now properly has a buff icon. Visual
Fox Shift: This power can now hit the same target twice. Would have been nice if then next point* hadn't nerfed it by 40%
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5. 40% nerf*
Hindering Shot: This power's tooltip now properly mentions that it has charges. Useful info but does not affect gameplay
Marauder's Escape: This power no longer grants Action Points while out of combat. that's a negative CW can do with an At-Will, why shouldnt this be able to?
Predatory Action: This power now properly affects Seismic Shot. Finally something good to come from this nerf fest!
Rain of Arrows: This power now properly prompts the ranger to draw a bow. Not even sure what this is referring to I've never had a problem firing it, Still a fairly useless ability outside of dungeons.
Rain of Swords: Damage numbers now properly show up from bleed ticks. Good Info
Rapid Shot: The visual effects now consistently play when using this power. Visual
Rapid Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been slightly reduced. Why? It's not like it was doing extreme amounts of damage as it was.
Seismic Shot: This power now has a targeting reticule. Okay that's another good one.
Split Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 30%. Saw it coming but i think 30% is too much.
Split the Sky: The return damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 60%. This is a slap in the face.
Thorn Ward: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 20%. And a kick in the groin.
Thorn Ward: This power's duration has been reduced to 4 seconds per rank, down from 6 seconds. get em while they're down
Many powers that didn't properly trigger certain effects now do. These powers include: Good fix
Grasping Roots
Rain of Arrows
Thorn Ward
(Storm Warden) Split the Sky
The Action Point meter has been improved.
The bow string now properly shows during character creation.
The Ranged / Melee switching tutorial tip no longer shows up before the player can even use it.
The Ranged / Melee switching ability now properly has an icon.
The timing on several powers' visual effects now match up more closely with the damage dealt.
so lets count em up Not counting the Visual changes and the things that weren't working as intended Buffs
Fox shift: (negated by the actuality of it being nerfed by 40%) This power can now hit the same target twice.
Nerfs
Aimed Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 10%.
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5
Marauder's Escape: This power no longer grants Action Points while out of combat.
Rapid Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been slightly reduced.
Split Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 30%.
Split the Sky: The return damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 60%.
Thorn Ward: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 20%.
Thorn Ward: This power's duration has been reduced to 4 seconds per rank, down from 6 seconds.
I did some testing with Tiah (A control wizard from Exodus) in regards to Stamina Regen. At level 36 I had specced for an additional 20% stamina Regen. As well as the 4% I gained from my points into Str. Giving 24% stamina regen.
We timed how long it took to fill the Stamina Bars. For Tiah, it was 15 Seconds empty to full. (Thats on a CW) On the Ranger, it took 20-21 seconds. However, this is not as big an issue as it may seem? Why? Because with 24% stamina regen, It already gave me an extra dodge. Pushing the amount of dodges I could expend at one time to a maximum of 6!!
That is correct. But assuming the fact Desidus had 24% bonus stamina regen, and I had 12% (boon + str), you could reckon normal stamina regen time for wizard is ≈17 s. and ≈25 s. for ranger. With mentioned whooping 53% speed increase its going to be ≈16 s. for ranger. With max. amount of consequtive dashes ≈ 8.
Hope alot of you who complained about some skills doing too much damage are happy. You just killed the HR before it is even released to Live.
Now this. How you guys even dare complaining about damage output? With archery tree maxed you have ridiculous, almost free crit chance
> here is the graph
(horizontal axis - your natural crit chance, that one appearing in character stats; vertical axis - your real crit chance; both feats taken into account)
^
Basically, you dont need crit at all. And you dont need arpen either, since your str and along with that fancy class feature already giving you "mitigation ignored" cap. Again, for free! You can just invest in power or tenes, or make yourself more tanky. And you have 2 abilities, that hit like a truck, one of them at-will btw. So why not just turn your brain ON for a bit and wrap your build around them?
^
Talking about long-wind-up at-will, wizards currently have Pillar of Storm with somewhat ≈2 s. cast time. Most of us dont use it because of that, which is wrong. Fully charged it does up to 15k damage on single target (but it's AoE!) and it's totally viable to use in pvp. Not all the time, though - for example, sometimes I use it, when target is frozen. Or sometimes, when i'm just not focused. Point is - you can treat your Aimed Shot same way.
Talking about long-wind-up at-will, wizards currently have Pillar of Storm with somewhat ≈2 s. cast time. Most of us dont use it because of that, which is wrong. Fully charged it does up to 15k damage on single target (but it's AoE!) and it's totally viable to use in pvp. Not all the time, though - for example, sometimes I use it, when target is frozen. Or sometimes, when i'm just not focused. Point is - you can treat your Aimed Shot same way.
Have you actually tried it yet?
If Pillar of storm if has about a 2.1 second cast time, is not able to be interrupted and is AoE.
Aimed shot Has a 3 second cast time (2.5 with 3 ranks), is interrupted even by poison tick, and is only single target. also we cant freeze targets.
yes but wizards also have 3 holds they can constantly use to locka player in or aoe's that kill all minions in almost 1 hit... i would be satisfied if they allowed HR to use their rapid shot while moving... that way we could do circles around the massive amount of enemies thry throw at you solo and you can't stop and shoot at or die. also change split shot so that the fewer the target hit the more damage done so that it goes back to the high damage for single targets and the lower damage for many targets... because right now its weaker than rapid shot and before if you used it for multiple targets that was 2 or less it was useful since you had to channel it to a narrow band just to do the higher damage.
That is correct. But assuming the fact Desidus had 24% bonus stamina regen, and I had 12% (boon + str), you could reckon normal stamina regen time for wizard is ≈17 s. and ≈25 s. for ranger. With mentioned whooping 53% speed increase its going to be ≈16 s. for ranger. With max. amount of consequtive dashes ≈ 8.
Now this. How you guys even dare complaining about damage output? With archery tree maxed you have ridiculous, almost free crit chance
> here is the graph
(horizontal axis - your natural crit chance, that one appearing in character stats; vertical axis - your real crit chance; both feats taken into account)
^
Basically, you dont need crit at all. And you dont need arpen either, since your str and along with that fancy class feature already giving you "mitigation ignored" cap. Again, for free! You can just invest in power or tenes, or make yourself more tanky. And you have 2 abilities, that hit like a truck, one of them at-will btw. So why not just turn your brain ON for a bit and wrap your build around them?
^
Talking about long-wind-up at-will, wizards currently have Pillar of Storm with somewhat ≈2 s. cast time. Most of us dont use it because of that, which is wrong. Fully charged it does up to 15k damage on single target (but it's AoE!) and it's totally viable to use in pvp. Not all the time, though - for example, sometimes I use it, when target is frozen. Or sometimes, when i'm just not focused. Point is - you can treat your Aimed Shot same way.
Now I like to point out you are right.
But you are talking about a specific build right there, with specific ability rolls, and a feat or two.
Yeah thats okay.
But this hurts the class as an entire whole. If anyone picks or chooses anything else. They are hurt. badly.
And no matter how you cut it. The main source of damage for a HR is hurt really bad. Which is its at wills. The only encounters that actually do, do reasonable damage, have also been chopped down.
HR is hurting bad after these changes. The ones that specced in that specific way with all that strength. Gotten that feat and use those specific skills will do okay. But you will have trouble using 1 out of 2 of those skills simply because ANY source of damage at all interrupts your casting. You will not be able to get that shot off hardly at all in most situations.
Now this would be different if you took a certain percent of damage while casting this LONG casted at will attack. Sort of like when you're on a white horse and you take a certain amount of damage, you get dismounted. But that is not the case here. Any dot you get. That skill is unusable. Your AT-WILL is un-usable!
There is very little good here. Hunter Ranger is hurt bad after these changes.
so lets count em up Not counting the Visual changes and the things that weren't working as intended Buffs
Fox shift: (negated by the actuality of it being nerfed by 40%) This power can now hit the same target twice.
Nerfs
Aimed Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 10%.
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5
Marauder's Escape: This power no longer grants Action Points while out of combat.
Rapid Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been slightly reduced.
Split Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 30%.
Split the Sky: The return damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 60%.
Thorn Ward: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 20%.
Thorn Ward: This power's duration has been reduced to 4 seconds per rank, down from 6 seconds.
Where is the actual good coming from?
I can understand your frustration. Believe me I can. None of us like seeing nerfs hit a class we enjoy or are excited about at all.
However, before we all jump on our High horses why don't we actually use the test shard for what it is for. Testing?
And then after you have done some testing. Come back with some hard numbers for Cryptic to take a look at. The Feedback Forums are here for that exact reason. Believe it or not, the fact that there are changes means they are looking at the class fairly closely and are trying to balance it. Sometimes mistakes are made. But you know what? The good thing about mistakes, they are usually rectified.
So lets test how they work now, Do some dugeon runs. Parse some mob pulls. Whatever works. And then, we come back and discuss and give feedback on how things should work.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
That is correct. But assuming the fact Desidus had 24% bonus stamina regen, and I had 12% (boon + str), you could reckon normal stamina regen time for wizard is ≈17 s. and ≈25 s. for ranger. With mentioned whooping 53% speed increase its going to be ≈16 s. for ranger. With max. amount of consequtive dashes ≈ 8.
Now this. How you guys even dare complaining about damage output? With archery tree maxed you have ridiculous, almost free crit chance
> here is the graph
(horizontal axis - your natural crit chance, that one appearing in character stats; vertical axis - your real crit chance; both feats taken into account)
^
Basically, you dont need crit at all. And you dont need arpen either, since your str and along with that fancy class feature already giving you "mitigation ignored" cap. Again, for free! You can just invest in power or tenes, or make yourself more tanky. And you have 2 abilities, that hit like a truck, one of them at-will btw. So why not just turn your brain ON for a bit and wrap your build around them?
^
Talking about long-wind-up at-will, wizards currently have Pillar of Storm with somewhat ≈2 s. cast time. Most of us dont use it because of that, which is wrong. Fully charged it does up to 15k damage on single target (but it's AoE!) and it's totally viable to use in pvp. Not all the time, though - for example, sometimes I use it, when target is frozen. Or sometimes, when i'm just not focused. Point is - you can treat your Aimed Shot same way.
You have no idea what you are talking about. HR was nerfed into the ground. We should be able to play HR they way we want to not the way you want us to going by your post. And people need to leave PvP out of this. It is always the PvPers complaining the most that gets a class nerfed. I wish they would just DO AWAY with PvP here.
I play both pve and pvp.
My posts are always reflected in both of these. I am never biased with one over the other. Which you can tell from my previous post.
This patch hurts HR all the way around. And I am currently testing this class since I read the patch notes.
Lower levels you wont see that big a difference in number simply because of lower values. As you get higher, this hurts them more and more.
And about pvp. The classes arent as much of the problem as the pvp balance itself is the problem.
pvp 1-59 is very balanced.
Pvp at 60 is the problem. Simply because there is no longer a filter.
Pvp at 60 is like if pvp was freely 1-59 with no divisions.
You will have people in the 50's fighting 30's. thats what pvp at 60 is like.
there needs to be subdivisions, especially as content continues to come out, this gap will widen the longer a division isnt in place.
I do not play PvP and will never play PvP. So you PvPers need to back off and stop having classes nerfed cause you can't play your classes.
By comparison as a PvP player I think you are being extremely short sighted. Please accept the fact that PvP will always be a facet of some games. If you don't like that, don't play the game.
I want to play the HR as a nuker in PvP. Whats your point?
Edit: You can still play the class as you want. Whether that will be effective is an entire different matter.
I think the point is very much that. This patch very much narrows down effective playstyles of a Hunter Ranger.
Thier griping about pvp is just the disappointement of seeing a very appealing class share a very similar fate of quite a few classes we've seen in the past that is leaving a faint trail of a trend. While alot of things have changed some classes due to pvp whining I admit, I've seen it. It hasnt always been for the better, and is doing just as this is doing. narrowing down the potential of a class, not in viability, but in variety and effectiveness.
I dont entirely blame them for the outlash against pvpers. But saying they wish pvp were to be removed from the game is just not realistic. For some people do enjoy both pvp and pve like myself. And seeing on both sides of the coin, can better view the capabilities of a class as a whole.
I think the point is very much that. This patch very much narrows down effective playstyles of a Hunter Ranger.
Thier griping about pvp is just the disappointement of seeing a very appealing class share a very similar fate of quite a few classes we've seen in the past that is leaving a faint trail of a trend. While alot of things have changed some classes due to pvp whining I admit, I've seen it. It hasnt always been for the better, and is doing just as this is doing. narrowing down the potential of a class, not in viability, but in variety and effectiveness.
I dont entirely blame them for the outlash against pvpers. But saying they wish pvp were to be removed from the game is just not realistic. For some people do enjoy both pvp and pve like myself. And seeing on both sides of the coin, can better view the capabilities of a class as a whole.
Oh don't get me wrong, I want nothing more than more variety in the class as well. And I do get the itch to PvE every now and then. But I am primarily a PvPer.
Now, Has anyone actually stopped and thought about why they changed the damage on Thorn Ward and Split the sky? Combined, you could clear entire weak mobs in a few short seconds. As sustained damage. Split Shot needed a damage reduction. I don't think 30% was the amount it needed to be reduced by, but it definitely needed a reduction.
Time while tell as to the viability of Thorn Ward and Split the sky. Combined and with Split shot, they should still pump out some pretty decent AoE Dps.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I had started a new HR before this patch. I went back on after the patch, I got knocked down to under half health cause my main 2 at wills were nerfed. Trash mobs that normally would take 2 hits to kill with split shot, took 3 shots to kill.
0
werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I can understand your frustration. Believe me I can. None of us like seeing nerfs hit a class we enjoy or are excited about at all.
However, before we all jump on our High horses why don't we actually use the test shard for what it is for. Testing?
And then after you have done some testing. Come back with some hard numbers for Cryptic to take a look at. The Feedback Forums are here for that exact reason. Believe it or not, the fact that there are changes means they are looking at the class fairly closely and are trying to balance it. Sometimes mistakes are made. But you know what? The good thing about mistakes, they are usually rectified.
So lets test how they work now, Do some dugeon runs. Parse some mob pulls. Whatever works. And then, we come back and discuss and give feedback on how things should work.
I don't give random feedback without testing, I may not have hard numbers or whatever you are looking for but I can tell you this. I feel like i'm shooting sponges from a dollar store bow and i don't play a class because its the best class I prefer to play a class because i like the way it feels.
Feedback: General
In almost every game i play not just MMO's i play an archer class of some sort because i like the feel of them this is just not what i was hoping for. Rangers are supposed to be the mobile ranged class I really think this Rapid Shotneeds to be like Shot on the Run. I realize it's a 3.5 feat but for it to actually feel like a ranger class it needs to have at least one attack that keep the mobility theme going.
Cryptic is doing a great job, balancing the classes lately. Remember, how long it took to get the TR fixed? In case of the HR, they have truly done a great and also speedy job. Releasing it to live, without adjusting it would have caused havoc, the nerfs would have been on demand anyway, sooner or later.
We are testing it, so the devs are able to, "adjust" it properly and bring it on par with the current classes.
Feedback: Aimed Shot The reduction in damage seems to be about right. My Crit damage dropped from 20k to 17K. So there should be less screaming from those self-designated PvP gods. :rolleyes:
I have to believe this was just a nerf pass. Too many bugs were reported and not addressed (Nature's Enhancement, Twin-Blade Storm, etc, etc...) There were also no buffs, which on some powers/feats are sorely needed. There is a lot of good feedback in this thread, which, again, I have to believe is being studied and will be addressed before release. The Ranger is bringing back a lot of players for a second look. It would not do release an underpowered class.
Cryptic is doing a great job, balancing the classes lately. Remember, how long it took to get the TR fixed? In case of the HR, they have truly done a great and also speedy job. Releasing it to live, without adjusting it would have caused havoc, the nerfs would have been on demand anyway, sooner or later.
We are testing it, so the devs are able to, "adjust" it properly and bring it on par with the current classes.
I hope they give the same testing and treatment to GWF. I don't want to get too comfortable with the many buffs we've recently received, only to have them taken away, or the class losing some of it's capabilities, in a few months.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
I have to believe this was just a nerf pass. Too many bugs were reported and not addressed (Nature's Enhancement, Twin-Blade Storm, etc, etc...) There were also no buffs, which on some powers/feats are sorely needed. There is a lot of good feedback in this thread, which, again, I have to believe is being studied and will be addressed before release. The Ranger is bringing back a lot of players for a second look. It would not do release an underpowered class.
I would argue that if it can't be perfect, it's better to release an underpowered one that gets buffed, than a overpowered one that gets nerfed. Because if too many players get complacent with HR being the way it was, they'll feel even more betrayed and reflect that negative opinion on the class as a whole for a long time after the nerf pass.
Don't believe it? Look at the GWF's. A solid class in it's current state on live, yet completely ignored by a large portion of the playerbase due to this very same issue. The class was too strong in testing, and too many came to rely on that power.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Feedback: General
In almost every game i play not just MMO's i play an archer class of some sort because i like the feel of them this is just not what i was hoping for. Rangers are supposed to be the mobile ranged class I really think this Rapid Shot needs to be like Shot on the Run. I realize it's a 3.5 feat but for it to actually feel like a ranger class it needs to have at least one attack that keep the mobility theme going.
They do have mobility. Though too much mobility and it will be a problem in pvp.
They have a couple of mobility encounters and the highest number of dodge abilities. I think thier mobility is good enough the way it is, with the possibility to get more if you desire if you take focus in specific ability rolls.
And to note in response to xtraordinary91
Now, Has anyone actually stopped and thought about why they changed the damage on Thorn Ward and Split the sky? Combined, you could clear entire weak mobs in a few short seconds. As sustained damage. Split Shot needed a damage reduction. I don't think 30% was the amount it needed to be reduced by, but it definitely needed a reduction.
I agree Split shot did need a SLIGHT reduction, I said that at the initial release of the class when testing, but this is beyond too much.
Split the Sky and Thorn Ward do give good aoe damage. But at the moment, they are the only class that has specific damaging AOE attacks so they should be strong. Every other class that has aoe damage has a side effect to it. These skills only do damage and that it, and its sustained, meaning its not instant. Therefore enemies can simply move away from the area.
Wizards aoe's have some sort of control effect
GF have prone and threat generating effects
GWF have slgiht control effects in the few encounter abilities they have that are aoe.
TR have some daily aoe and a CC aoe encounter that does no damage at all.
Cleric's aoe's give debuffs/healing/buffs to party.
HR aoes ONLY do damage.
Also these are encounter powers.
GWF and GF at will powers are target capped and dont deal much damage.
Reducing the damage of these encounter skills by such a large amount doesnt make much sense taking that into account.
Comments
I think you can probably afford to spec for more Str / Wis than Int / Recov. Simply because Stormstep action is amazing with Disruptive shot. And If you crit? Thats 4 seconds your encounter cooldowns are reduced by. Archery will work best with High Crit Builds, hence speccing for more points into wisdom. And Str gives us base Armour Penetration as well as Stamina Regen.
I did some testing with Tiah (A control wizard from Exodus) in regards to Stamina Regen. At level 36 I had specced for an additional 20% stamina Regen. As well as the 4% I gained from my points into Str. Giving 24% stamina regen.
We timed how long it took to fill the Stamina Bars. For Tiah, it was 15 Seconds empty to full. (Thats on a CW) On the Ranger, it took 20-21 seconds. However, this is not as big an issue as it may seem? Why? Because with 24% stamina regen, It already gave me an extra dodge. Pushing the amount of dodges I could expend at one time to a maximum of 6!!
Also, because our dodges consume less stamina, we can dodge more often at the lower end of the stamina bar as well. This will be even more apparent once you have 5 spec points into the feat that increases stamina regeneration by 25% whilst in ranged stance, Combined with the 10% we can get from Heroic Feats and then the 10% stamina regen from Sharandar that gives a Base Stamina Regeneration of 45%. Now, if you take my advice and spec into Str, you can push that even higher. My Ability score roll with have 18 str, so thats another 8% Stamina Regen. Thats a Whopping 53% faster stamina regeneration.
And people think I dodge too much on my wizard as it is now.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
They made the whole game "like that".
This is feedback section so my feedback is the dodge distance is too short to get you out of the way, which is the entire purpose of dodge. I would rather have 4 dodges at 10feet than 5 dodges at 8feet. Because currently I have to use 2 dodges to get out of red circles. Also in pvp many player attacks are 8feet range or cone or radius. If I dodge and still end up getting hit its worthless.
Would you care to elaborate? I don't think anyone has complained about the damage being too high. We have two abilities with the potential to hit hard. One with a clunky cast time and can be interrupted, the other, had the slowest cast animation I have seen in the game.
If anything some of our abilities need a damage increase. Especially the melee aspect.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Most of this is positive, I don't think it is the end of the world as some may be thinking. I am worried about Split the Sky and Thorn Ward. Previously they allowed us to do decent AoE damage. Testing will be need to done to see if this rotation is still viable, or if our AoE potential has just been carved to pieces.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
your not keeping in mind that HR are suppose to be high damage just like a rogue... we don't have a ton of stuns or holds like CW and we don't' have the protection of a tank or the heals of a cleric... we rely on damage to survive and you take that away we have nothing. I wouldn't mind taking away so much damage if you compensate the HR with some kind of greater survivablity like giving them the ability to move while they use that daily healing ability or making the ability give them 10 seconds or so of damage reduced by 50% or so. because its going to take much longer to kill other classes/monsters in pvp and pve with the lack of survival and damage the other classes now have over HR.
Okay now let me try
so lets count em up Not counting the Visual changes and the things that weren't working as intended
Buffs
Nerfs
Where is the actual good coming from?
Now this. How you guys even dare complaining about damage output? With archery tree maxed you have ridiculous, almost free crit chance
> here is the graph
(horizontal axis - your natural crit chance, that one appearing in character stats; vertical axis - your real crit chance; both feats taken into account)
^
Basically, you dont need crit at all. And you dont need arpen either, since your str and along with that fancy class feature already giving you "mitigation ignored" cap. Again, for free! You can just invest in power or tenes, or make yourself more tanky. And you have 2 abilities, that hit like a truck, one of them at-will btw. So why not just turn your brain ON for a bit and wrap your build around them?
^
Talking about long-wind-up at-will, wizards currently have Pillar of Storm with somewhat ≈2 s. cast time. Most of us dont use it because of that, which is wrong. Fully charged it does up to 15k damage on single target (but it's AoE!) and it's totally viable to use in pvp. Not all the time, though - for example, sometimes I use it, when target is frozen. Or sometimes, when i'm just not focused. Point is - you can treat your Aimed Shot same way.
My videos
Have you actually tried it yet?
If Pillar of storm if has about a 2.1 second cast time, is not able to be interrupted and is AoE.
Aimed shot Has a 3 second cast time (2.5 with 3 ranks), is interrupted even by poison tick, and is only single target. also we cant freeze targets.
Now I like to point out you are right.
But you are talking about a specific build right there, with specific ability rolls, and a feat or two.
Yeah thats okay.
But this hurts the class as an entire whole. If anyone picks or chooses anything else. They are hurt. badly.
And no matter how you cut it. The main source of damage for a HR is hurt really bad. Which is its at wills. The only encounters that actually do, do reasonable damage, have also been chopped down.
HR is hurting bad after these changes. The ones that specced in that specific way with all that strength. Gotten that feat and use those specific skills will do okay. But you will have trouble using 1 out of 2 of those skills simply because ANY source of damage at all interrupts your casting. You will not be able to get that shot off hardly at all in most situations.
Now this would be different if you took a certain percent of damage while casting this LONG casted at will attack. Sort of like when you're on a white horse and you take a certain amount of damage, you get dismounted. But that is not the case here. Any dot you get. That skill is unusable. Your AT-WILL is un-usable!
There is very little good here. Hunter Ranger is hurt bad after these changes.
I can understand your frustration. Believe me I can. None of us like seeing nerfs hit a class we enjoy or are excited about at all.
However, before we all jump on our High horses why don't we actually use the test shard for what it is for. Testing?
And then after you have done some testing. Come back with some hard numbers for Cryptic to take a look at. The Feedback Forums are here for that exact reason. Believe it or not, the fact that there are changes means they are looking at the class fairly closely and are trying to balance it. Sometimes mistakes are made. But you know what? The good thing about mistakes, they are usually rectified.
So lets test how they work now, Do some dugeon runs. Parse some mob pulls. Whatever works. And then, we come back and discuss and give feedback on how things should work.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
You have no idea what you are talking about. HR was nerfed into the ground. We should be able to play HR they way we want to not the way you want us to going by your post. And people need to leave PvP out of this. It is always the PvPers complaining the most that gets a class nerfed. I wish they would just DO AWAY with PvP here.
My posts are always reflected in both of these. I am never biased with one over the other. Which you can tell from my previous post.
This patch hurts HR all the way around. And I am currently testing this class since I read the patch notes.
Lower levels you wont see that big a difference in number simply because of lower values. As you get higher, this hurts them more and more.
And about pvp. The classes arent as much of the problem as the pvp balance itself is the problem.
pvp 1-59 is very balanced.
Pvp at 60 is the problem. Simply because there is no longer a filter.
Pvp at 60 is like if pvp was freely 1-59 with no divisions.
You will have people in the 50's fighting 30's. thats what pvp at 60 is like.
there needs to be subdivisions, especially as content continues to come out, this gap will widen the longer a division isnt in place.
By comparison as a PvP player I think you are being extremely short sighted. Please accept the fact that PvP will always be a facet of some games. If you don't like that, don't play the game.
You can still play the class as you want. Whether that will be effective is an entire different matter.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I think the point is very much that. This patch very much narrows down effective playstyles of a Hunter Ranger.
Thier griping about pvp is just the disappointement of seeing a very appealing class share a very similar fate of quite a few classes we've seen in the past that is leaving a faint trail of a trend. While alot of things have changed some classes due to pvp whining I admit, I've seen it. It hasnt always been for the better, and is doing just as this is doing. narrowing down the potential of a class, not in viability, but in variety and effectiveness.
I dont entirely blame them for the outlash against pvpers. But saying they wish pvp were to be removed from the game is just not realistic. For some people do enjoy both pvp and pve like myself. And seeing on both sides of the coin, can better view the capabilities of a class as a whole.
Oh don't get me wrong, I want nothing more than more variety in the class as well. And I do get the itch to PvE every now and then. But I am primarily a PvPer.
Now, Has anyone actually stopped and thought about why they changed the damage on Thorn Ward and Split the sky? Combined, you could clear entire weak mobs in a few short seconds. As sustained damage. Split Shot needed a damage reduction. I don't think 30% was the amount it needed to be reduced by, but it definitely needed a reduction.
Time while tell as to the viability of Thorn Ward and Split the sky. Combined and with Split shot, they should still pump out some pretty decent AoE Dps.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I don't give random feedback without testing, I may not have hard numbers or whatever you are looking for but I can tell you this. I feel like i'm shooting sponges from a dollar store bow and i don't play a class because its the best class I prefer to play a class because i like the way it feels.
Feedback: General
In almost every game i play not just MMO's i play an archer class of some sort because i like the feel of them this is just not what i was hoping for. Rangers are supposed to be the mobile ranged class I really think this Rapid Shot needs to be like Shot on the Run. I realize it's a 3.5 feat but for it to actually feel like a ranger class it needs to have at least one attack that keep the mobility theme going.
We are testing it, so the devs are able to, "adjust" it properly and bring it on par with the current classes.
The reduction in damage seems to be about right. My Crit damage dropped from 20k to 17K. So there should be less screaming from those self-designated PvP gods. :rolleyes:
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
I hope they give the same testing and treatment to GWF. I don't want to get too comfortable with the many buffs we've recently received, only to have them taken away, or the class losing some of it's capabilities, in a few months.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I would argue that if it can't be perfect, it's better to release an underpowered one that gets buffed, than a overpowered one that gets nerfed. Because if too many players get complacent with HR being the way it was, they'll feel even more betrayed and reflect that negative opinion on the class as a whole for a long time after the nerf pass.
Don't believe it? Look at the GWF's. A solid class in it's current state on live, yet completely ignored by a large portion of the playerbase due to this very same issue. The class was too strong in testing, and too many came to rely on that power.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
They do have mobility. Though too much mobility and it will be a problem in pvp.
They have a couple of mobility encounters and the highest number of dodge abilities. I think thier mobility is good enough the way it is, with the possibility to get more if you desire if you take focus in specific ability rolls.
And to note in response to xtraordinary91
I agree Split shot did need a SLIGHT reduction, I said that at the initial release of the class when testing, but this is beyond too much.
Split the Sky and Thorn Ward do give good aoe damage. But at the moment, they are the only class that has specific damaging AOE attacks so they should be strong. Every other class that has aoe damage has a side effect to it. These skills only do damage and that it, and its sustained, meaning its not instant. Therefore enemies can simply move away from the area.
Wizards aoe's have some sort of control effect
GF have prone and threat generating effects
GWF have slgiht control effects in the few encounter abilities they have that are aoe.
TR have some daily aoe and a CC aoe encounter that does no damage at all.
Cleric's aoe's give debuffs/healing/buffs to party.
HR aoes ONLY do damage.
Also these are encounter powers.
GWF and GF at will powers are target capped and dont deal much damage.
Reducing the damage of these encounter skills by such a large amount doesnt make much sense taking that into account.