Haha you give people to much credit Can't even get people to stand in blue and you want them to hug the monster that you have cast Forgemaster on for 5 seconds.... they might do it if the mob had a big blue flashing neon sign on it....
Cause casting forgemaster on the monster that the rogue is attacking is hard right?
I'm positive PWE and Cryptic will take all your feedback into consideration before the 20th. They released the intended changes a week earlier than the date it was supposed to be released. This can only mean they are testing these changes in a live setting to see how the majority of the community will respond.
It would be best if we treat this as an added final testing for the official launch. And as much as possible provide the best possible constructive feedback we can for the betterment of the entire game. Raging does so well in venting out our frustration but what fixes an issue, in my opinion, is a collection of level-headed players who can provide constructive feedback in regards to the change.
I for one really dislike the abhorrent nerf to AS. It completely destroys the top encounter of a cleric which is pretty much essential for them to fulfill their role as a Leader-type class, which acts as the main support of a party in encounters. Although 2 AS stacking was mind-blowing-ly OP, that's basically the only thing that needed a nerf for AS. A 33% reduction in up-time is too big of a blow for the skill, almost rendering the entire class completely reliant on recovery stats just to be able to gain access to AS much faster. Clerics have it hard enough supporting us DPS classes from afar, making sure our HP's are well maintained while dealing with the constant influx of adds. It's one of the hardest classes to play in this game, in my opinion.
I hope Cryptic can somehow sift through all our feedback, and reconsider the uptime reduction of Astral Shield.
So casting forgemaster on the mob that's going to die the fastest makes sense right?
Rogues usually attack elite mobs or bosses, if the elite mob is almost dead just wait till eh attacks the next elite mob, if he dies laugh at him for not using a potion. Perhaps someone will run up to him and press F, or he will just run back from the fire, altogether a good time.
Guys a good cleric will be more than able to keep a party healed with all of the other changes that have been made. I have been playing on the test shard since it was put in place and every dungeon has been MUCH easier to complete even with 1 DC.
Haha you give people to much credit Can't even get people to stand in blue and you want them to hug the monster that you have cast Forgemaster on for 5 seconds.... they might do it if the mob had a big blue flashing neon sign on it....
If people couldn't be got to 'stay in blue' there would be much less complaint over AS change, wouldn't there.
Good players will adapt to whatever changes must be made.
Well, AS stacking gone OK, i've been healing solo anyway so wouldn't even notice the change. AS duration reduced, not OK unless you buff Guardians soo much that we don't have to deal with adds constantly.
What I was doing up this point was: tank can't hold anything off me but the boss(if unlucky GF can't even hold boss off me), so I was basically tanking everything else while being responsible for the HP bars of my fellow players who, if I'm fortunate, will see my plight and peel those nasty little things off me in a timely manner that ADD dmg doesn't add up so high that I can't outheal it with Divine AS+<insert random heal here>;
cause rightousness (self debuff that prevents me from healing myself in an effective manner) is a *kitten* to deal with.
Before you post how you shouldn't be standing in red circles and such: I DON'T stand in red circles if I can help it.
Now I don't see any changes regarding our permanent debuff, I've yet to see if the GF after patch is worth being called a meatshield, or if the bosses have better mechanics then the placeholder SPAWN MORE ADDS every few seconds,
if not, this is majorly going to put a kink in my desire to run any kind of Dungeon be it Normal, Heroics or a simple Skirmish.
I played a DE healer among other classes in L2 and while the game was 'hardcore' (no instances, open world PvP, exp loss on death which could result in level loss, slow levelling (1% an hour type of speeds) etc.) the actual healing role in PvE was a breeze. It mainly consisted of sitting on ones' <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in the middle of your party getting up every few minutes to lay a heal on the tank and/or boost the magic user's mana resource.
In short, healing in L2 was by far the easiest role I have ever played in any game ever.
I definitely agree with you on this. The only time healing was even remotely an issue was during PVP or Epic raids. Even regular raid bosses in L2 required nothing more then a couple of clicks or button presses and the tank is good.
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0
foulspawnerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
I just got my DC to 60, much much easier finding a grp then on my TR. But the ques are quite long, and I really dont like the healing tools or lack of them.
Hoping the patch will help with argo issues, I hate LFG in chat but thats what you have to do i guess.
Also its not so bad doing it with 1 DC just have to slow way down and be mind full of your healer.
But this is not about any of that, its all about NW selling them pots and scrolls.
Bingo!
The reason for DC's not being a true "healer" class is because it would diminish the gold revenue/sink.
It's just Cryptic's way of squeezing as many resources from players as possible. It's about maximizing revenue instead of maximizing or even balancing fun for them IMO.
lol.... Come on over to the dark side Cleric's with us fighters. Let the Rogue's and Wizzards do the dungeons by themselves. I've never known a fighter who has not bought their own pots. I have ran static with a cleric for almost 3years (DDO) and I have always looked out for the cleric. Fighters know they are their best friend and know they live or die together.
Might be a good lesson for the Rogue and Wizzard to learn the hard way.
Personally, I'm moving over to Rift (free to play as of 6/12). Got my Cleric to 60, got 2/4 and 2/4 T2 and T2.5 MH/OH with Ancient belt/rings/neck. Ioun Stone at 25 with best-in-slot ring/neck/icon. I'm finding myself extremely bored with the end-game content.
What end-game is there? CN has nothing to offer me anymore, except the occasional piece of gear that I sell on AH. The only upgrades are Enchantments. I find Cryptic's lack of planning for endgame content mind-boggling. How long do they expect people to play this game? It took me about a month to get pretty much geared out on one character. At least Diablo 3 had Inferno difficulty, which extended endgame for a while because of Inferno's difficulty scale.
Maybe it would be different if the PVP system was a little worthwhile or even the least bit enjoyable, but one 5v5 domination just doesn't cut it. The combat system in NW had a lot of potential, but the complete disregard for endgame content has caused me to leave for another MMO. I tried to like it, but I can't see this game progressing in any positive aspect judging by the way Cryptic has designed their endgame.
Rift... I tried that game and found the combat clunky. The mouse locking in neverwinter makes combat so smooth and fluid, unlike in rift where your mouse is free and you have to use keys to turn... Neverwinter had the right idea there, we don't need a free cursor in combat, in fact it is a detriment when you could be using the mouse to turn instead.
@Neomouser, Rift was no different at its release. Far too easy to level, exploits a plenty, broken/lackluster pvp, easymode endgame content, imbalanced classes
Please don't act as if going from NW to Rift is breath taking or ground breaking. They are both pretty equally horrible.
However the combat of Rift leaves a LOT to be desired in comparison.
Well, surprise... I believe there will be more clerics playing...
Changes to cleric aggro and boosts to GF alone will make the game more realistic to D&D... and require more team play. Communication becomes more important (imagine that), and GF will feel more like an "intimi-tank".
Clerics will need to use their "full arsenal", they do more than just heal.
I say we will have more clerics, and better equipped parties (heal and buff potions).
Oh is that a fact? While I'll reserve judgement on the aggro mechanics until I've personally experienced it the rest of that paragraph is a load of giant <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Require more team play? Communication being important? What do you take a large portion of this community as, a bunch of random pugs (imagine that)...
Please explain to me what exactly is our "full arsenal"? What do you think we've been using? You go right ahead and say we'll have more Clerics while most of us burn through 50 ******* pots every epic run due to the rubber-banding and ****ty client to server hit detection.
One shard in the future, heaven forbid! Neverwinter don't bother if you're not a US citizen.
I dunno every mmo I played running 2 healers DOES increase group survivability. Do you have an example from another mmo where it doesnt'?
Any MMO that doesnt adhere to the holy trinity, which are most of the good ones.
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jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I just want to see what happens when six blademasters attack at once on the guardian, in spider. Add the spiders on the last boss and I don't know if I can heal through all that initial burst.
LOL at the ppl moving to Rift...that game sucks guys just admit it to yourselves. Also what did you guys expect the game to have for end game considering it was open beta and most of you sped straight to the end. When it goes live there will a little more endgame content but nothing that is going to keep the hardcore players attention for more than a few weeks because they have already abused/glitched/cheated your way to the top. Give the game some time to grow before you decide it is never going to get any bigger/better.
The majority of players in this game are bad. Bad gear, bad gameplay. Clerics seem to have some of the worst players out of all classes for some reason. Most Clerics I've grouped with have no clue wtf they're even doing. They don't spam Hallowed Ground / Divine Armor, they don't use Sunburst (on cooldown), they don't use one of the many DPS Encounters available to them to at least help the team with some DPS. Oh, and they don't dodge out of red stuff. All they do is sit there in their blue circle of invulnerability and sometimes use their At-Wills. Some don't even do that...
I really like this Cleric nerf. I have a 60 Cleric myself and I think the game will be more interesting than the current meta for dungeons. Double Astral shield faceroll needed to be stopped back in May. Cryptic is a month and a half too late with this much-needed nerf. That's why you see all the crying on the forums from Clerics. They're too used to easymode and don't feel like adapting to good changes.
Now, the class that got the true stick in the as$ are Rogues. Their damage is now going to be destroyed. Some baddie Clerics might reroll, but the class that will have the biggest exodus will be Rogues. Clerics didn't have Astral Shield's values diminished, only the stacking and cooldown changed. Rogues on the other hand, had their main source of damage completely annihilated by Cryptic's terrible balancing team.
ur wrong sir shocking execution is no way TRs biggset damage resource, that is lurkers assault and lashing blade and they actualy buffed it (at least lashing blade according to patch notes), but yeah its like with clerics, good ones adapt, bad ones leave
Please... people leave, people come, with nerfs or buffs or nothing. If DC's vanish it will be because people dislike the game, not a patch that makes an easy game harder.
Most of the discussion here is from the point of view of older MMO's with the Tank-Healer-DPS mindset. In this game, each character has to take responsibility for damage mitigation for themselves and the party. Teamwork is the key. It's not designed to have the healer stand in a circle and spam heals while everybody else DPS's and personally I'm grateful for it.
Please... people leave, people come, with nerfs or buffs or nothing. If DC's vanish it will be because people dislike the game, not a patch that makes an easy game harder.
Most of the discussion here is from the point of view of older MMO's with the Tank-Healer-DPS mindset. In this game, each character has to take responsibility for damage mitigation for themselves and the party. Teamwork is the key. It's not designed to have the healer stand in a circle and spam heals while everybody else DPS's and personally I'm grateful for it.
Exactly this. The DC/healing was broken before this patch. Now it is fixed.
I laugh at people saying DCs are the ones complaining- we now get free groups, heck, we can probably swindle people with the threat of leaving a group as DCs become non existant, if anything this is the best news ever for us.
It's everyone else that should be pissed- goodbye one hour queues, hello 4 hour queues. Enjoy dealing with a game that makes healing something almost nobody wants to bother doing.
For those that can only manage with double stacking AS easy mode, it is better off they quit anyway, and make their space available to someone with more mastery of the class.
while I do agree that those that are going to quit simply because easy mode goes out the door.. well good riddance, I'd also like to point out that it works both ways. I've seen plenty of people crying about it in pvp... even though honestly AS in pvp is a joke to use and easy to go against if you are a thinking player and working with a team oriented team.
I always cringe at qq for nerf's. The best fix to seemingly OP other classes has, in my observation, always been suggestions for bringing the lacking classes up to par. nerf's just end up killing games and making them all like the last one we just left.. with maybe better graphics..PUKE
I laugh at people saying DCs are the ones complaining- we now get free groups, heck, we can probably swindle people with the threat of leaving a group as DCs become non existant, if anything this is the best news ever for us.
It's everyone else that should be pissed- goodbye one hour queues, hello 4 hour queues. Enjoy dealing with a game that makes healing something almost nobody wants to bother doing.
No now it is healing is something that only GOOD players will be able to do. Goodbye all the ****ty clerics standing around in a circle.
ur wrong sir shocking execution is no way TRs biggset damage resource, that is lurkers assault and lashing blade and they actualy buffed it (at least lashing blade according to patch notes), but yeah its like with clerics, good ones adapt, bad ones leave
All you non-Rogues, please just stop talking. You tards make yourselves look stupid whenever you speak about the Rogue nerf, that you know nothing of.
Hint: Rogues' main source of damage is not Shocking Execution or Lashing Blade. It's Duelist's Fury.
Well i tried some dungeon delves. They went pretty smooth. Only mad dragon and pirates mind you. Queued up instantly.
The agro change is a godsend. It makes a ton of difference in our personal survival. Astral shield duration was very noticeable. I found myself dodging a lot more. Getting out of those red danger zones is a must now.
I still had fun on my cleric today as did the people i grouped with.
I think right now if they removed Righteous healing debuff and boosted our other spells a bit more for healing we would be pretty solid. That righteous debuff is kind of crazy. It is the thorn in our thigh. I would like to see a few more spells bumped up as far as healing goes. Not to much but enough to make the difference in the harder t2 dungeons.
Gonna log on later and try some harder Dungeons with the guild. So far though it is not as bad as a lot of players are making it out to be. The end fight to Pirate and mad drogon were both a lot more tame compared to yesterday. I did not have every single add on me. Opened up room to actually think a bit. The damage seemed more scattered throughout the entire party. So that is def a good thing for clerics.
A couple more minor tweaks to damage/healing and divines will be pretty balanced. It is a fun class that has potential. Just needs a bit more fine tuning now.
LOL at the ppl moving to Rift...that game sucks guys just admit it to yourselves. Also what did you guys expect the game to have for end game considering it was open beta and most of you sped straight to the end. When it goes live there will a little more endgame content but nothing that is going to keep the hardcore players attention for more than a few weeks because they have already abused/glitched/cheated your way to the top. Give the game some time to grow before you decide it is never going to get any bigger/better.
Sped straight to the end? lol I have never seen a game where you level so quickly and where if you want you can buy all the tier 2 epic equipment if you want. How about they put more imagination into quests so they weren't just fetch 3 plants, get me a sandwich oh and here is 5k xp. Someone yesterday was doing a 24hr stream of levelling a GWF from 1st to 60th. If that didn't tell Cryptic their game was too easy to get to 60th I don't know what does.
Oh and as for clerics, I have one and just tried to spellplague caverns. The nerf on AS makes it pointless not just because of the cooldown and duration is nerfed but it does not compare in healing to the amount of dmg mobs do. I do use forgemaster too but on epic quests there are so many mobs everywhere not to mention targeted healing is virtually impossible, it only helps one member of the grp usually whoever is attacking the boss.
Before the patch clerics were the worst healers in any game I have ever seen and now they are even worse.
Comments
Cause casting forgemaster on the monster that the rogue is attacking is hard right?
So casting forgemaster on the mob that's going to die the fastest makes sense right?
Thank you! Nicely stated.
Rogues usually attack elite mobs or bosses, if the elite mob is almost dead just wait till eh attacks the next elite mob, if he dies laugh at him for not using a potion. Perhaps someone will run up to him and press F, or he will just run back from the fire, altogether a good time.
If people couldn't be got to 'stay in blue' there would be much less complaint over AS change, wouldn't there.
Good players will adapt to whatever changes must be made.
What I was doing up this point was: tank can't hold anything off me but the boss(if unlucky GF can't even hold boss off me), so I was basically tanking everything else while being responsible for the HP bars of my fellow players who, if I'm fortunate, will see my plight and peel those nasty little things off me in a timely manner that ADD dmg doesn't add up so high that I can't outheal it with Divine AS+<insert random heal here>;
cause rightousness (self debuff that prevents me from healing myself in an effective manner) is a *kitten* to deal with.
Before you post how you shouldn't be standing in red circles and such: I DON'T stand in red circles if I can help it.
Now I don't see any changes regarding our permanent debuff, I've yet to see if the GF after patch is worth being called a meatshield, or if the bosses have better mechanics then the placeholder SPAWN MORE ADDS every few seconds,
if not, this is majorly going to put a kink in my desire to run any kind of Dungeon be it Normal, Heroics or a simple Skirmish.
Healing breath on the tank, forge master flame for the dps, AS for the oh ****. /discussion.
- JailBreak (in development)
Lotro is a fine example. You drop down in DPS and most of the instances won't let you through with it. It is a very well balanced MMO.
The reason for DC's not being a true "healer" class is because it would diminish the gold revenue/sink.
It's just Cryptic's way of squeezing as many resources from players as possible. It's about maximizing revenue instead of maximizing or even balancing fun for them IMO.
Might be a good lesson for the Rogue and Wizzard to learn the hard way.
Rift... I tried that game and found the combat clunky. The mouse locking in neverwinter makes combat so smooth and fluid, unlike in rift where your mouse is free and you have to use keys to turn... Neverwinter had the right idea there, we don't need a free cursor in combat, in fact it is a detriment when you could be using the mouse to turn instead.
Please don't act as if going from NW to Rift is breath taking or ground breaking. They are both pretty equally horrible.
However the combat of Rift leaves a LOT to be desired in comparison.
More groups for me !
Maybe I'll start charging for my services.
Oh is that a fact? While I'll reserve judgement on the aggro mechanics until I've personally experienced it the rest of that paragraph is a load of giant <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Require more team play? Communication being important? What do you take a large portion of this community as, a bunch of random pugs (imagine that)...
Please explain to me what exactly is our "full arsenal"? What do you think we've been using? You go right ahead and say we'll have more Clerics while most of us burn through 50 ******* pots every epic run due to the rubber-banding and ****ty client to server hit detection.
One shard in the future, heaven forbid! Neverwinter don't bother if you're not a US citizen.
Any MMO that doesnt adhere to the holy trinity, which are most of the good ones.
Most of the discussion here is from the point of view of older MMO's with the Tank-Healer-DPS mindset. In this game, each character has to take responsibility for damage mitigation for themselves and the party. Teamwork is the key. It's not designed to have the healer stand in a circle and spam heals while everybody else DPS's and personally I'm grateful for it.
Exactly this. The DC/healing was broken before this patch. Now it is fixed.
It's everyone else that should be pissed- goodbye one hour queues, hello 4 hour queues. Enjoy dealing with a game that makes healing something almost nobody wants to bother doing.
while I do agree that those that are going to quit simply because easy mode goes out the door.. well good riddance, I'd also like to point out that it works both ways. I've seen plenty of people crying about it in pvp... even though honestly AS in pvp is a joke to use and easy to go against if you are a thinking player and working with a team oriented team.
I always cringe at qq for nerf's. The best fix to seemingly OP other classes has, in my observation, always been suggestions for bringing the lacking classes up to par. nerf's just end up killing games and making them all like the last one we just left.. with maybe better graphics..PUKE
No now it is healing is something that only GOOD players will be able to do. Goodbye all the ****ty clerics standing around in a circle.
All you non-Rogues, please just stop talking. You tards make yourselves look stupid whenever you speak about the Rogue nerf, that you know nothing of.
Hint: Rogues' main source of damage is not Shocking Execution or Lashing Blade. It's Duelist's Fury.
The agro change is a godsend. It makes a ton of difference in our personal survival. Astral shield duration was very noticeable. I found myself dodging a lot more. Getting out of those red danger zones is a must now.
I still had fun on my cleric today as did the people i grouped with.
I think right now if they removed Righteous healing debuff and boosted our other spells a bit more for healing we would be pretty solid. That righteous debuff is kind of crazy. It is the thorn in our thigh. I would like to see a few more spells bumped up as far as healing goes. Not to much but enough to make the difference in the harder t2 dungeons.
Gonna log on later and try some harder Dungeons with the guild. So far though it is not as bad as a lot of players are making it out to be. The end fight to Pirate and mad drogon were both a lot more tame compared to yesterday. I did not have every single add on me. Opened up room to actually think a bit. The damage seemed more scattered throughout the entire party. So that is def a good thing for clerics.
A couple more minor tweaks to damage/healing and divines will be pretty balanced. It is a fun class that has potential. Just needs a bit more fine tuning now.
Sped straight to the end? lol I have never seen a game where you level so quickly and where if you want you can buy all the tier 2 epic equipment if you want. How about they put more imagination into quests so they weren't just fetch 3 plants, get me a sandwich oh and here is 5k xp. Someone yesterday was doing a 24hr stream of levelling a GWF from 1st to 60th. If that didn't tell Cryptic their game was too easy to get to 60th I don't know what does.
Oh and as for clerics, I have one and just tried to spellplague caverns. The nerf on AS makes it pointless not just because of the cooldown and duration is nerfed but it does not compare in healing to the amount of dmg mobs do. I do use forgemaster too but on epic quests there are so many mobs everywhere not to mention targeted healing is virtually impossible, it only helps one member of the grp usually whoever is attacking the boss.
Before the patch clerics were the worst healers in any game I have ever seen and now they are even worse.