You might feel different if you had any lockbox mounts, fashion outfits or Zen store companions.
I would probably feel something, for sure, probably what I would feel is like kicking myself for spending $50 or using a rare BOE item on a character I did not like...
Sure. When I see you in PnP sessions whip out your wallet to lay down IRL cash instead of ingame PnP gold or spell materials each time it's required.
Hey any of my players that want a favor that big, have to buy Guinness and a decent snack before I'd even consider it.
IMO, with the way racial quests intertwine in the story and the fact that this seems to be something that only really serves the Munchkin Min-maxers that i ban from my PnP table, I don't see the point in it.
Hey any of my players that want a favor that big, have to buy Guinness and a decent snack before I'd even consider it.
IMO, with the way racial quests intertwine in the story and the fact that this seems to be something that only really serves the Munchkin Min-maxers that i ban from my PnP table, I don't see the point in it.
Table top, min-max is kind of goofy. But this video game is a hack&slash only, no puzzles much, no RP, not much of anything except killing so maxing out your bash power makes more sense. On top of that the fixed set of assigned for you stat rolls makes it pay off.
0
calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I would probably feel something, for sure, probably what I would feel is like kicking myself for spending $50 or using a rare BOE item on a character I did not like...
Or you always wanted to play e.g. a dragonborn but it was added months later.
0
solresolMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
"Hi ... are you Frumpy the Dwarf? The crotchety ol GF guy I have known for weeks?"
"Yes, but after $100 in re-class, re-race, re-sex, rename tokens now I'm a sexy Half Elf female Cleric and I go by the name Sabrina! How could you tell?"
Honestly i see this as something they'll implement when the drow race is unlocked for everybody. There are lots of people that wanted a drow but didnt want to wait 60 days or pay $200 so they made a different race of the class they wanted. Sure they could reroll a new character of that class when drow comes out, but then they wont have all the stuff they spent on the original.
Personally I'd settle for being able to change my initial stat rolls, whether through the respec token thats already available or a new token specifically for it.
Another thought, somebody mentioned how appearance changes worked RP wise, a person goes outside and gets tanner or gets in a fight and now has a cut. What about the opposite? How exactly does a really tall person with a huge scar down their cheek and a big tattoo on their face become a foot shorter with no scars or tattoos? Is that really so much different than a race change?
Also, not to bring in a political debate into this but, anybody else reminded somewhat of the HAMSTER marriage debate?
side A: "I would love to be able to do X"
side B: "you cant do X, that would negatively affect me!"
side A: "But how? we dont know each other, we never see each other, I dont see how it would affect you"
side B: "It just would! Its not right to be able to do X in this world!"
Yet in my decades playing pen and paper, i've seen min-maxers and munchkins that would put people in mmos to shame. In fact i DMed a game at Gen Con many, many years ago where two players thought they knew what the adventure would be about, so they focused all their effort into rules lawyering, and when the adventure took a 180, they pouted and refused to play at all past that point.
You might feel different if you had any lockbox mounts, fashion outfits or Zen store companions.
Eh, i have a tiefling that i started on head-start, and i've invested a bunch in her, but have started a human of the same class. Leveling is fast here, but i get wanting to be a different race, i just worry it will lead to fad of the week min maxing. If it turns out one race is better for something, or there is a certain exploit that pops up with one race, or it's easier to level one race and then a better race at cap, or whatever. I just worry about abuses, since race isn't cosmetic only here.
0
calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Another thought, somebody mentioned how appearance changes worked RP wise, a person goes outside and gets tanner or gets in a fight and now has a cut. What about the opposite? How exactly does a really tall person with a huge scar down their cheek and a big tattoo on their face become a foot shorter with no scars or tattoos? Is that really so much different than a race change?
It was just smoke and mirrors. Adding a race change would not make NWO any less D&D since it exists in PnP too.
Leveling is fast here, but i get wanting to be a different race, i just worry it will lead to fad of the week min maxing. If it turns out one race is better for something
Leveling speed doesn't concern me. The lack of account unlocks does. I doubt anyone would pay just to min-max considering how weak all racials are.
You get punched really hard, your nose gets broken and therefore your appearance is adjusted.
You fail to dodge a fatal swing completely and end up with a nasty scar running from your nose to cheekbone.
You get a bit more sun and some hair dye and now you have green hair and tan skin instead of pale skin and blonde hair.
But no matter what you do you will always be the race you were born as. Even transmutations do not (often) actually give the racial benefits of the race you are transmuted to.
As to how it effects people, we can argue day and night and you will never be happy with the answer. The elegant way to put it is that this is a multiplayer game and the ability for players to do things do effect you. Might not be profane but every choice they make does effect you just as the choices of your neighbors do effect you even if its something as minor as putting lawn ornaments up.
Different actions effect different people at varying levels of severity but it does effect people. As a player who is here because this is a D&D game it effects me massively. This is an MMO but it is also a D&D Game, but the only argument weaker than 'this is an MMO so toss out the D&D' is that 'there isn't a lot of D&D to begin with so it doesn't matter if more is taken out.'
The D&D features lacking in the game are things that should be fought to get proper inclusion and love. The D&D that remains is something to preserve and expand upon.
These things might not effect you but they do effect me. Every single thing which I hold dear to D&D which gets tossed out the window or spit upon is a bit of emptiness to me. It doesn't mechanically effect me but as a fan of D&D with my own personal vested opinion on what is important to D&D it effects me greatly. And if enough of the D&D is thrown out so will my love for the game.
That's my feelings, my emotions laid bare. Your own personal feelings on the matter might differ but you may not state that my feelings are false.
I'm sorry but how do you become a CM without knowing the difference between Affect and Effect?
As far as the OP goes. I agree. Not for the reason you want. As, even with min/maxing, those +2 matters very little. I would like it in case future races get added, or just because I find I enjoy the look of another race more later on.
Also, not to bring in a political debate into this but, anybody else reminded somewhat of the HAMSTER marriage debate?
side A: "I would love to be able to do X"
side B: "you cant do X, that would negatively affect me!"
side A: "But how? we dont know each other, we never see each other, I dont see how it would affect you"
side B: "It just would! Its not right to be able to do X in this world!"
^
I would better understand an uproar about novelty items like candycane swords and things like that, because you are forced to look at those things every time you walk by a character who has them equipped. With a race change, the new race is still true to the universe, so unless you have spent time getting to know another player's character, you'd have no idea that they hadn't always been the race that they currently are.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
I'm sorry but how do you become a CM without knowing the difference between Affect and Effect?
As far as the OP goes. I agree. Not for the reason you want. As, even with min/maxing, those +2 matters very little. I would like it in case future races get added, or just because I find I enjoy the look of another race more later on.
You are missing the point. Adding future races is content. Providing the ability to swap negates that content.
0
calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You are missing the point. Adding future races is content. Providing the ability to swap negates that content.
The opportunity to make quite a bit of extra money from race changes negates that point, however. Free players or players who don't care will at most spend $2,50 on an extra character slot ($5 for two). Someone willing to change their race would probably be willing to spend ten times that amount.
Additionally, someone who is so attached to a character that they would spend $25 or more for a race change is likely to already have spent money on that character and is thus likely to spend even more. Not offering a race change option has the opposite effect: You won't be spending money on a character if you are unsure if you really want to keep it. (I have a L30 cleric whose stats I am not happy with. I would have paid $25-30 this morning to change him and re-roll the starting stats. Instead, I made a new cleric and just keep the previous one as a profession mule. Money spent: $0. Will I get bags for the new cleric? No, because I am unsure if the first balance patch will change the main stats issue, so this too is money I didn't spend.)
I am willing to bet that within half a year we will get a paid race change option. The demand is here, the money is on the table, and it has no adverse effects on the F2P business model or the game balance. It's an ideal money maker.
False. Races are not content according to a Cryptic dev. Content is things that you do. Things like missions/quests, stories, zones and events.
If that were true. Then why hold off on the Drow? They have it, they can easily of released it. Like they did the renegade. But they are holding off. One, so it wont diminish the "content" of founders renegades. And two, because i'm sure they are expecting many character expansion sales if they wait a bit of time for folks to fill up their initial two slots.
False. Races are not content according to a Cryptic dev. Content is things that you do. Things like missions/quests, stories, zones and events.
It is content in the context that I posted, you are simply incorrect. If you want to play the new race, you run a new character up to 60, that is playing the game content wise. This is done in practically every MMO ever produced along with new classes. It is a cheap content mill.
0
calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As far as the OP goes. I agree. Not for the reason you want. As, even with min/maxing, those +2 matters very little. I would like it in case future races get added, or just because I find I enjoy the look of another race more later on.
the difference of a perfect roll and a crappy one is not +2.
13(str)/20(wis)/13(char) - Level 1 roll
19(str)/22(wis)/19(char) - Level 60 spec
Ideally -
12(str)/16(wis)/18(char) - Level 1 roll
18(str)/18(wis)/24(char) - Level 60 roll
(on this one you also get +2 more int, which is 2% recharge speed)
The difference from the initial roll is ridiculous. Please don't say it's "only" +2, because it's actually a major improvement. And since we literally get lied to as wisdom is our "primary" stats, this is a big issue.
0
calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The difference from the initial roll is ridiculous. Please don't say it's "only" +2, because it's actually a major improvement. And since we literally get lied to as wisdom is our "primary" stats, this is a big issue.
Rerolling your stats should be included with the respec token. Race change is a different matter.
Even more good, solid reasoning as to why Race Changes should be implemented, and even more gutting of the "arguments" from the opposers. Loving it.
Let's keep this thread alive to really get through to the Devs, you never know what they might miss - especially since the forum admin in this one is somewhat odd and biased, I think. :P
Do you think roleplay and immersion are unimportant and superfluous?
Character progression is just a nice distraction to what really matters - the story.
Race changes are simply not necessary and break the narative for people who really care about D&D.
He didn't say that.
Thats what really matters to -you-.
Alot of people seem to believe it is necessary - and how could it possibly break narrative in a game with so little DnD, for people who really care about DnD, when the feature discussed is even a part of DnD? Reincarnate. Wish/Miracle. And so on. You're fighting against what you're defending, and poorly so. And you don't even have to use it if you don't want to, so it will never break narrative for you anyway, or effect you in any way? Why are you even arguing this?
It's stupidly easy to justify from a PnP/RP standpoint - they just refuse to. Despite them being outnumbered like mad at that.
And since Face Change is already in the game it's even less of an issue to add Race Change.
0
spoohtheoneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
It's stupidly easy to justify from a PnP/RP standpoint - they just refuse to. Despite them being outnumbered like mad at that.
And since Face Change is already in the game it's even less of an issue to add Race Change.
Comments
Honestly people...If you can't decide wether you like the Race you chose by like level 14 then you are HAMSTER.
I would probably feel something, for sure, probably what I would feel is like kicking myself for spending $50 or using a rare BOE item on a character I did not like...
ooo! Uni!!! ^^^^^
Hey any of my players that want a favor that big, have to buy Guinness and a decent snack before I'd even consider it.
IMO, with the way racial quests intertwine in the story and the fact that this seems to be something that only really serves the Munchkin Min-maxers that i ban from my PnP table, I don't see the point in it.
Table top, min-max is kind of goofy. But this video game is a hack&slash only, no puzzles much, no RP, not much of anything except killing so maxing out your bash power makes more sense. On top of that the fixed set of assigned for you stat rolls makes it pay off.
Or you always wanted to play e.g. a dragonborn but it was added months later.
"Yes, but after $100 in re-class, re-race, re-sex, rename tokens now I'm a sexy Half Elf female Cleric and I go by the name Sabrina! How could you tell?"
Personally I'd settle for being able to change my initial stat rolls, whether through the respec token thats already available or a new token specifically for it.
Another thought, somebody mentioned how appearance changes worked RP wise, a person goes outside and gets tanner or gets in a fight and now has a cut. What about the opposite? How exactly does a really tall person with a huge scar down their cheek and a big tattoo on their face become a foot shorter with no scars or tattoos? Is that really so much different than a race change?
Also, not to bring in a political debate into this but, anybody else reminded somewhat of the HAMSTER marriage debate?
side A: "I would love to be able to do X"
side B: "you cant do X, that would negatively affect me!"
side A: "But how? we dont know each other, we never see each other, I dont see how it would affect you"
side B: "It just would! Its not right to be able to do X in this world!"
Yet in my decades playing pen and paper, i've seen min-maxers and munchkins that would put people in mmos to shame. In fact i DMed a game at Gen Con many, many years ago where two players thought they knew what the adventure would be about, so they focused all their effort into rules lawyering, and when the adventure took a 180, they pouted and refused to play at all past that point.
Eh, i have a tiefling that i started on head-start, and i've invested a bunch in her, but have started a human of the same class. Leveling is fast here, but i get wanting to be a different race, i just worry it will lead to fad of the week min maxing. If it turns out one race is better for something, or there is a certain exploit that pops up with one race, or it's easier to level one race and then a better race at cap, or whatever. I just worry about abuses, since race isn't cosmetic only here.
It was just smoke and mirrors. Adding a race change would not make NWO any less D&D since it exists in PnP too.
Leveling speed doesn't concern me. The lack of account unlocks does. I doubt anyone would pay just to min-max considering how weak all racials are.
I'm sorry but how do you become a CM without knowing the difference between Affect and Effect?
As far as the OP goes. I agree. Not for the reason you want. As, even with min/maxing, those +2 matters very little. I would like it in case future races get added, or just because I find I enjoy the look of another race more later on.
^
I would better understand an uproar about novelty items like candycane swords and things like that, because you are forced to look at those things every time you walk by a character who has them equipped. With a race change, the new race is still true to the universe, so unless you have spent time getting to know another player's character, you'd have no idea that they hadn't always been the race that they currently are.
-Travail.
You are missing the point. Adding future races is content. Providing the ability to swap negates that content.
False. Races are not content according to a Cryptic dev. Content is things that you do. Things like missions/quests, stories, zones and events.
The opportunity to make quite a bit of extra money from race changes negates that point, however. Free players or players who don't care will at most spend $2,50 on an extra character slot ($5 for two). Someone willing to change their race would probably be willing to spend ten times that amount.
Additionally, someone who is so attached to a character that they would spend $25 or more for a race change is likely to already have spent money on that character and is thus likely to spend even more. Not offering a race change option has the opposite effect: You won't be spending money on a character if you are unsure if you really want to keep it. (I have a L30 cleric whose stats I am not happy with. I would have paid $25-30 this morning to change him and re-roll the starting stats. Instead, I made a new cleric and just keep the previous one as a profession mule. Money spent: $0. Will I get bags for the new cleric? No, because I am unsure if the first balance patch will change the main stats issue, so this too is money I didn't spend.)
I am willing to bet that within half a year we will get a paid race change option. The demand is here, the money is on the table, and it has no adverse effects on the F2P business model or the game balance. It's an ideal money maker.
If that were true. Then why hold off on the Drow? They have it, they can easily of released it. Like they did the renegade. But they are holding off. One, so it wont diminish the "content" of founders renegades. And two, because i'm sure they are expecting many character expansion sales if they wait a bit of time for folks to fill up their initial two slots.
Seems like content to me.
It is content in the context that I posted, you are simply incorrect. If you want to play the new race, you run a new character up to 60, that is playing the game content wise. This is done in practically every MMO ever produced along with new classes. It is a cheap content mill.
Maybe they plan to release it with the new class.
You are allowed to disagree with them. It doesn't change a thing.
the difference of a perfect roll and a crappy one is not +2.
13(str)/20(wis)/13(char) - Level 1 roll
19(str)/22(wis)/19(char) - Level 60 spec
Ideally -
12(str)/16(wis)/18(char) - Level 1 roll
18(str)/18(wis)/24(char) - Level 60 roll
(on this one you also get +2 more int, which is 2% recharge speed)
The difference from the initial roll is ridiculous. Please don't say it's "only" +2, because it's actually a major improvement. And since we literally get lied to as wisdom is our "primary" stats, this is a big issue.
Rerolling your stats should be included with the respec token. Race change is a different matter.
Let's keep this thread alive to really get through to the Devs, you never know what they might miss - especially since the forum admin in this one is somewhat odd and biased, I think. :P
Do you think roleplay and immersion are unimportant and superfluous?
Character progression is just a nice distraction to what really matters - the story.
Race changes are simply not necessary and break the narative for people who really care about D&D.
Why are you against Reincarnate spell if you care about D&D?
He didn't say that.
Thats what really matters to -you-.
Alot of people seem to believe it is necessary - and how could it possibly break narrative in a game with so little DnD, for people who really care about DnD, when the feature discussed is even a part of DnD? Reincarnate. Wish/Miracle. And so on. You're fighting against what you're defending, and poorly so. And you don't even have to use it if you don't want to, so it will never break narrative for you anyway, or effect you in any way? Why are you even arguing this?
Anything else?
Betting a couple hundred bucks right now this isn't what you want, is it...
And since Face Change is already in the game it's even less of an issue to add Race Change.
I couldn't agree more.