i dont play ff14, so i am asking about the comment from dave...
how long does the content from FF differ from STO? (meaning, based on STO story arcs etc, is there more in STO or FF?)
does one have to repeat missions for set items?
if two people were to start at the same time, one playing FF, and the other STO, who would finish first?
it seems from discussions, that FF has more in depth crafting and other little things that keep it fresh compared to STO...is there more than crafting?
I haven't played in a couple of years but:
- There is different gear for different "jobs" (mage types, fighter types, rogue types, crafting types) - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/
- Gear is at fixed levels and the level is not upgradeable (unless that has changed)
- There is a lot more varied crafting available, and the the different mat grinding systems are more interesting (like mining and going fishing), but mat grinding is indeed grindy. Unlike STO you need to cook 10,000 meals instead of doing one daily XP project 100 times like STO allows.
- You'll need to grind mats and/or raids to gear up, and keep doing it as you out-level old gear. Like STO you'll also get gear as quest rewards.
One nice aspect is one single character can eventually learn everything -- you can level up the same character in every job, each job has its own level. When you equip a piece of job gear your job instantly switches to that job.
Story episodes: I don't have a good handle on that. Both have a lot. FF XIV has more fetch quest / kill 18 deathbunny filler quests mixed in to stretch out the real story content.
FF is fun. I'd recommend doing the free trial when you want a break from STO. Just be warned when that runs out you'll need to pay both the monthly sub and for content drops once the trial ends.
> @davefenestrator said:
> I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "
> @reyan01 said:
> That's one of the points I was making though. As you say, the Legendary pack is $200 - and for what? Ten ships to use in ISA for the 2312334th time? Ten ships to use in whatever recycled FOMO event they're running?
I feel the same way as davefenestrator. I would rather spend money from time to time on zen store purchases, then a subscription fee. I do have a LTS, but still feel the desire from time to time to support the game and add something to my inventory with purchases of items from the zen store. I would rather have that than a $15 per month subscription fee like SWTOR does.
Maybe my style of play differs, but I find be much to keep me entertained in STO. I play 70% of the time with my main character. The other 30% is split between 7 other alt characters. Each character has a unique ship and a theme. I play only content with the character based on their theme. I rotate amongst my alts to keep it fresh. I do random TFOs, patrols, re-run story missions, go to adventure/ combat zones, roleplay, fleet admin tasks, chat with friends, participate in team missions. I am on for at least two hours a day, and never find it a drag. I only do events if the reward or the mission is interesting to me. Even for events I am doing, if I feel the drag and do not want to repeat, I skip a day or two. I only do endeavors that fall in line with what I planned for the day or spark an idea or interest. I approach STO in a very casual way and see it as entertainment.
I respect the opinions of the people on this message board, but it seems my experience it just the opposite of many have expressed.
It just seems there is so much negative opinion on these message boards and I wanted to express my positive opinion.
The main negative criticism I have of the game is all the poorly edited announcements. I find the typos annoying and confusing. Other than that, I think STO is a great game and I like what they are doing.
As you say, each to their own. I, personally, want to play new content/stories, not the same recycled nonsense on repeat for two weeks. STO offers very little in the way of new/story based content of late, in favor of relentless sales of items to use in recycled content.
As I said in an earlier post: I've stopped budgeting for/looking forward to anything newly announced as I know it'll almost definitely just be another gamblebox/bundle/something else to spend money on or yet another recycled FOMO-fueled event. And just to prove my point, today's news item: https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11506523-35%-bundle-sale!
There's also a bonus dil week. Yeah, they're not even trying at this point. I get that there's no "quick, easy fix", but what they're doing now is actively counterproductive.
Which is why I was surprised that so many people defended the decision to take away the pass and reroll tokens. Because I immediately realised that it wouldn't have any positive impact, it'd just take away something from players.
Regarding the subscription model, I believe that it is dead as it was, or should be dead. Just being able to collect a subscription fee and then sit on their butts and not release new content is one thing that pisses a lot of players off. We're expected to shell out the same amount of money each month only to not get any new content fot several months straight.
I believe that a reformed approach to subscription fees is in order. I would reform it as follows:
Make it where if you pay $15 for a 30-day subscription, then you sgould get an actual 30 days. A "day" would not be consumed until you log in, and another day would not be consumed unless you log in or are logged in 24 hours later. This means, if I go 15 days out of 30 without playing the game, I would still have 15 days left before I have to re-up. This nullifies that nagging feeling that if you don't log in every day you are wasting your money. It does not, however, stop some developers from sitting on their butts delivering nothing for months, but then, if nothing new is delivered, then many pople can simply opt out of logging in until it is, with unused access days not expiring.
Personally, I think that buy to play is really the only way to ensure that actual playable content is delivered regularly. If the developer wants to get paid, then they have to deliver actual content to be played. Speaking for myself, if I am not playing I certainly am not paying.
It's all a moot point until/unless the people calling the shots and allocating the funding for this game actually enable Cryptic to step up their game. and deliver content over fluff. I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to make that happen.
I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "Play when you feel like it" works better for me than "the clock is ticking on your $10-15".
That's why I prefer STO. The Legendary pack is $200 but it's a one-time fee vs. $156/year every year for SWTOR or FF XIV ($140 for ESO), while still paying extra for the cosmetics and for FF XIV content packs.
I've been spending a lot more time in FFXIV than I've been spending in STO as of late (I still log in, but mostly just to do events & stuff) as there's plenty that I feel I can & WANT to do in the game, especially since the game has moved the level goal post to 90. Like right now, I'm working on gathering and crafting classes to get them to level 80. I play every day so I get the money's worth of stuff. If you pay for 1 month, you can take off a month or however long you need a break for and then come back. You don't even have to play the game for that long every day. I do, because I have nothing else to do with my day.
In regards to the cosmetic items, many of those items & mounts are entirely optional purchases that have no major bearing on the game. Mounts are just mostly extras for you to have & there's plenty of outfits in game for you to wear that the ones from the shop are just nice to have extras.
That's like being a new player with STO -- endless story episodes, TFOs, patrols to worth through, admiralty and reputations and crafting to try for the first time, all the careers and ship types to try. All fresh and new.
Once you're caught up with the existing FF XIV content, you'll be back to waiting for new content drops and grinding recycled content just like with STO. At that point, paying $15 a month will seem more of a burden
Not true. Whilst I'll acknowledge that it'd be playing the same content in a sense, you can have your character change job and run the story as, for example, a Machinist or Mage instead. And FFXIV has far more jobs than STO.
More jobs, yes, and I had a lot of fun with that in FF. The different kinds of crafting and gathering is definitely more interesting and it even has a little bit of RPG / quest content attached along with all the grinding for mats and to level it up.
For combat classes job changes are still similar to creating a new alt as a (tac, sci, eng) and using their powers and kit modules, changing ship types (tac + cannons, cruiser +beams, carrier, science ship), changing boff powers and clicky consoles.
That’s a long sentence. I don’t disagree with you—I just want to point out there was only one full faction when the game went F2P. There were no unique KDF missions yet. I agree though—after they added LOR and the Klingon starting experience—they stopped developing faction-specific content.
This is true. There was only one full faction. But I understood why that was the case. Not many these days who were not here from the beginning do, though. It was because of time constraints. Some may not know that STO has had two development teams. Originally, it was Perpetual Entertainment, who was given four years to produce a minimally deliverable MMO based on Star Trek. Halfway through that period, next to no work had been done. And what Perpetual had released as screenshots turned out to be pre-rendered images that were passed off as in-game visuals. CBD wanted to see their progress and the little they say resulted in Perpetual losing the Star Trek license. It then went to Cryptic, but the clock was not reset. Cryptic only had two years to produce a minimally deliverable MMO.
Jack Emmert, who was the head of Cryptic at the time, stood on a stage and gave a long presentation about what STO was going to be. Two factions. Klingons and Federation. Full PvE and PvP for both. was an answer to one of the audience questions. Funnily enough, that video in the 4-part collection of videos from that event got replaced at some point with that question and Jack's answer omitted. Funny that everything else was there... Just that one direct point was removed.
But whatever.
Most MMOs of the same scale as STO take four to six years to be developed. But here, a very small development studio was expected to deliver one in half that time. Things from Jack's vision were not realistically achievable. I was known as CaptainQuirk on the forums in those days. And I predicted, based on the fact that everything we were shown about the game was Federation only, that either the Klingon side would be withheld until after launch and released as an expansion similar to how Cryptic rolled out City of Villains as an expansion to City of Heroes, or else it would launch incomplete with missing features being added after launch. The latter proved to be the case.
But I understood, even back then, that the Federation side of things had to be complete. Star Trek has ALWAYS been about the Federation. If that side of the game didn't launch with all of the declared features intact and functional then things would have been a lot worse. And Cryptic was working on the KDF side. As I recall, the KDF did not initially have exploration clusters like the Federation had. Those got added, and a few other elements. But then Atari's bankruptcy resulted in a decrease in staff because there was barely funding to keep Cryptic's lights on. Thus began the Great Content Drought that did not end until PWE bought Cryptic from Atari. Finally, both UFP and KDF were made complete in terms of mechanical parity. You could level a KDF toon from min to max for the first time and could create a KDF toon right out of the gate without having to level a Federation toon up part way first. Never mind that the missions on the upper end of KDF leveling were the same as UFP, but with a KDF slant. We still could level our KDF toon from min to max, right? Right.
Then came the announcement for the Romulan faction. Cryptic knew that the players wanted a THIRD full faction for the Romulans, if they were going to get one. They conveniently avoided telling us that we ultimately would have to choose to merge our Romulan with either the UFP or KDF, at which point the romulan-centric content would end and we'd spend the rest of our leveling experience doing UFP or KDF missions. If we chose KDF we only got a little bit of the KDF-centric content before running into the rest of the KDF leveling process which was faction agnostic.
Cryptic If I remember correctly were upfront when they released the Legacy of Romulus dev blogs that the Romulans would be choosing either the Klingons or Federation as allies. They also said that they would remain independent with their own storyline (which ends right the original Romulan Featured series with Obisek wanting Reman freedom), their own ships & their own faction hub, though they could visit those of their allies. What they didn't want to do at the time was make it so that the player base would be fractured by giving them their own starbase & have to build that up. Instead, by giving them access to the Federation or Klingon starbases, it would help to bolster the ranks of the existing fleets.
This is the point where we were told that there would be no more faction-specific content. And now we have the Alliance which nullifies the entire UFP/KDF conflict that was supposed to be the reason for the two factions with their separate economies. and the whole PvP aspect which has been abandoned. Players still PvP, but Cryptic doesn't do anything with it.
The idea behind no more faction specific content was that they wanted to have the story unified so that everything that was happening in the story would be happening concurrently for the three factions. It's easier for them to do 1 storyline for the three factions than have to give 3 separate versions that tell the same story pretty much.
And they never developed the Klingon-Fed war story or made territory mechanics or systems that allowed the factions to specialize.
That is part and parcel to the required prioritizing of the UFP aspect. By the time PWE took over, and the priority was to get UFP and KDF into a state of mechanical parity, they had lost enough of the team that it was no longer practical to deliver even faction specific PvE content. They were not equipped to devote time to a divisive war story when all the content was having to converge. Cryptic has always been a small team. I don't think it has been full strength by even its standards since before Atari made their budget cuts. And we have PWE to thank for that. STO needed to be a much bigger MMO with a lot more to it than it has ever had. But PWE just wanted something they could use to sell gamble boxes and fluff, so STO is the steaming pile of mediocrity that it is. And unless Gearbox sees the potential it COULD reach and puts some money into making it happen, a steaming pile of mediocrity is all it will be until it ultimately shuts down, probably years from now.
I think their plan was always to have the factions merge in order to go through one contiguous storyline, since the thing they've been building up for years was that the Iconians would be the enemy that they would have to fight against. It didn't make sense to have the Klingons & Federation fighting when the Iconians were the enemy that needed to be dealt with, even more than the Borg.
In regards to the whole PWE not wanting STO to be game, I feel that they were doing what they've been doing to keep STO funded. Remember that PWE is NOT a company like Square Enix that makes millions a year & has several hundred people each working to develop games for them. I think Perfect World's team sizes were like that of Cryptic, kept small so that they could keep costs down since they didn't charge for things like subscriptions, or even paid expansions.
Not even the story content is really specialized anymore. Even in the new Klingon civil war arc—my Klingon sounds like a Starfleet officer (T-T) (Those are warrior tears—I swear)
Remember... the KDF and the UFP are part of the Alliance. And the alliance is modeled after the Federation, so naturally, whether you're Klingon, Romulan or Jem'hadar, you're really Alliance. And really, I'm fine with that narrative. The UFP-KDF war only happened because the UFP didn't take the KDF seriously in terms of the Undine threat, Once the UFP accepted that the KDF wasn't just being paranoid and actually stepped up to fight a common enemy, then the war officially ended, especiallty when it was made clear that the Undine were just Iconian puppets.
The problem is that the same technical reasons why we cannot have three full independent factions are also why we cannot just officially be merged into one unified faction. The game was hard-coded around the concept of two factions at war, with that concept so intertwined with every major core mechanic that it would require a complete overhaul to make it possible. At least until full parity between the two is achieved. A major step towards that happened when they made it possible for everyone to fly any ship regardless of which faction they chose. The bigger hurdle will be to make all races playable on both factions complete with all costumes and gear made to work. When or if that is achieved, we can then flip another switch and the UFP and KDF will go away and the Alliance superfaction will be the only faction.
But even if that is the narrative direction they want to go, it doesn't change the fact that the DilEx is broken, and unless Cryptic gets off their butts and starts getting back to what made the DilEx flow as originally intended, then it will remain broken because there is nothing worth doing with RD that those with the Zen to spend will want to buy it for.
No more fleet holdings. No Alliance holdings and no personal holdings that each require large amounts of RD to progress, no demand for RD. No demand for RD means No desire to spend Zen to get it. It's what happens when a form of currency is devalued. When there are no goods or service to buy that people want, the currency is worthless.
We may have to accept that that Free to Get may be going away from this game. At this juncture, the crash and burn of the DilEx may be part and parcel of the way Gearbox wants to go with thinbngs. They can say tgat the day to day running of Cryptic won't change, but now new owner of any company ever leaves things fully alone. Gearbox is going to want actual profits to increase.
With the increase in prices of Zen purchases there is probably less surplus Zen afterwards. And even if there was more left over, the lack of useful application of RD means that those with surplus Zen would rather hold onto it than put it on the DilEx, so they wob't have to buy as much zen for the next new desirable piece of expensive fluff hits the C-store. Which means that those C-store sales that used to happen in part because of Zen someone else paid for but traded away will now be purchases made by Zen actually purchased by those who want what is offered.
Oh sure... even with the DilEx in the state it is in, it remains theoretically possible for a decreasing number of players to get stuff with money other people have spent. But only as long as a decreasing number of people keep putting a decreasing amount of Zen on the DilEx. when that ceases, Pay to get will become the only way to get.
The question is, how long will the people who don't want to pay a dime on this game keep playing after Pay to Get becomes the only Way to Get? From Cryptic/Gearbox's perspective, their departure will be no loss. They are not contributing to the game's profitability anyway. And the people willing to pay for Zen will still pay for it.
I'm curious... What is going on over in Neverwinter with its counterpart to the DilEx? Anyone here who also plays that game and knows the answer?
Personal holdings essentially sound like another name for Player housing, which is something that they don't plan on doing. Even in FFXIV, player housing is something that remains limited in that game. Originally, the game only had 4 residential areas in which people had to fight over houses for. They've already prepared a 5th residential area that people can go see the layout now, but houses are NOT yet available for buying. That's coming in the next big content drop which will also start the a new chapter in the game's story. They don't add new items all to often to the houses, since they take time to develop.
With Gearbox, I'm sure the publishing company will want to see profits, but the merger isn't done yet. I figure the impact of the merger will likely start being felt once STO's anniversary comes and goes. We should start seeing the anniversary stuff towards the end of this month.
Now, addressing your other point in regards to people who don't want to pay a dime to this game, you do understand that some of us who don't pay anything in this game don't simply do it because we don't want to, right? Some of us actually CAN'T. I know this is weird coming from me since I play FFXIV, but for that game, my sub is paid for by close friends, so I'm able to enjoy the game with them. I'd love it if I could afford anything in STO that I wanted, but that isn't the case, so I had to rely on the Dil Ex for the longest time.
I don't plan on leaving this game though 100%. I still log into the game to partake in the special events like Episode releases, Red Alerts, Event Campaigns & seasonal events, as I don't want to really miss out on those rewards. However, with the Dil Ex taking as long as it does to complete transactions, my days of getting ships that way is likely numbered now. I'll just wait for the next campaign event & see what rewards they offer.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
i dont play ff14, so i am asking about the comment from dave...
I can answer too as I am a currently active FF14 player as well.
how long does the content from FF differ from STO? (meaning, based on STO story arcs etc, is there more in STO or FF?)
FF14 just finished off the saga that was started back in 1.0 when the game was totally different and actually punished players for playing too long. Someone in Japan got the idea that long term playing of MMOs was bad and engineered a punishment into 1.0. YoshiP came in later and decided to literally end the world to rebuild the game from the ground up. But the story wasn't scrapped. Its been continuing from there since A Realm Reborn launched. While each espansion and patch content has its own theme, shuch as Heavensward being focused on the events around Ishgard, and the patch content for Heavensward focuses on ending the Dragonsong War, its all part of one massive story arc, involving Hydalyn and Zodiark, that just wrapped up in Endwalker. At least 10 years of storytelling. So... FF14 has lightyears more story content than STO.
does one have to repeat missions for set items?
Unlike most MMOs, FF14 doesn't have sets in the traditional sense. No real set bonuses. As dave mentioned, gear is based on level. But even if you outlevel gear, you can use it as cosmetic options, IE Transmog for those WoW veterans.
if two people were to start at the same time, one playing FF, and the other STO, who would finish first?
STO would finish first, hands down. Including all the expansions for FF14, You're probably looking at a few months of playtime IMO, and that's if you have no life and just live on the game. STO... I've been able to plow through the majority of the story in a few weeks, and hit level cap probably within a week.
it seems from discussions, that FF has more in depth crafting and other little things that keep it fresh compared to STO...is there more than crafting?
You have NO idea. Gathering and Crafting is a lot more integrated and hands on than STO. And there's no timegate on the crafting either. It kinda goes like this: Gather raw materials (both Mining and Botany), refine materials (using Blacksmith, Armorsmith, Goldsmith, Leatherworker, Weaver, Alchemist), craft item using appropriate crafter.
Making a full set of gear for a combat class can draw upon multiple crafting classes because weapon, armor, and accessories.
One nice aspect is one single character can eventually learn everything -- you can level up the same character in every job, each job has its own level. When you equip a piece of job gear your job instantly switches to that job.
Yes... who needs alt? One character... ALL classes!
Story episodes: I don't have a good handle on that. Both have a lot. FF XIV has more fetch quest / kill 18 deathbunny filler quests mixed in to stretch out the real story content.
Well... they did shave down the ARR patch content from the "100 quests of Hell" to about 75. And while there are some fetch quests and kill mob quests early on, the story does get more focus as times goes on, even if a fetch quest is involved there's usually story reasons for it. Not just "go get me 5 apples for no reason other than I want apples".
FF is fun. I'd recommend doing the free trial when you want a break from STO. Just be warned when that runs out you'll need to pay both the monthly sub and for content drops once the trial ends.
Well... you just need to pay for the expansions, which also include later patch content after the base expansion anyways.
Regarding the subscription model, I believe that it is dead as it was, or should be dead. Just being able to collect a subscription fee and then sit on their butts and not release new content is one thing that pisses a lot of players off. We're expected to shell out the same amount of money each month only to not get any new content fot several months straight.
I believe that a reformed approach to subscription fees is in order. I would reform it as follows:
Make it where if you pay $15 for a 30-day subscription, then you sgould get an actual 30 days. A "day" would not be consumed until you log in, and another day would not be consumed unless you log in or are logged in 24 hours later. This means, if I go 15 days out of 30 without playing the game, I would still have 15 days left before I have to re-up. This nullifies that nagging feeling that if you don't log in every day you are wasting your money. It does not, however, stop some developers from sitting on their butts delivering nothing for months, but then, if nothing new is delivered, then many pople can simply opt out of logging in until it is, with unused access days not expiring.
Personally, I think that buy to play is really the only way to ensure that actual playable content is delivered regularly. If the developer wants to get paid, then they have to deliver actual content to be played. Speaking for myself, if I am not playing I certainly am not paying.
It's all a moot point until/unless the people calling the shots and allocating the funding for this game actually enable Cryptic to step up their game. and deliver content over fluff. I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to make that happen.
I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "Play when you feel like it" works better for me than "the clock is ticking on your $10-15".
That's why I prefer STO. The Legendary pack is $200 but it's a one-time fee vs. $156/year every year for SWTOR or FF XIV ($140 for ESO), while still paying extra for the cosmetics and for FF XIV content packs.
I've been spending a lot more time in FFXIV than I've been spending in STO as of late (I still log in, but mostly just to do events & stuff) as there's plenty that I feel I can & WANT to do in the game, especially since the game has moved the level goal post to 90. Like right now, I'm working on gathering and crafting classes to get them to level 80. I play every day so I get the money's worth of stuff. If you pay for 1 month, you can take off a month or however long you need a break for and then come back. You don't even have to play the game for that long every day. I do, because I have nothing else to do with my day.
In regards to the cosmetic items, many of those items & mounts are entirely optional purchases that have no major bearing on the game. Mounts are just mostly extras for you to have & there's plenty of outfits in game for you to wear that the ones from the shop are just nice to have extras.
That's like being a new player with STO -- endless story episodes, TFOs, patrols to worth through, admiralty and reputations and crafting to try for the first time, all the careers and ship types to try. All fresh and new.
Once you're caught up with the existing FF XIV content, you'll be back to waiting for new content drops and grinding recycled content just like with STO. At that point, paying $15 a month will seem more of a burden
Not true. Whilst I'll acknowledge that it'd be playing the same content in a sense, you can have your character change job and run the story as, for example, a Machinist or Mage instead. And FFXIV has far more jobs than STO.
More jobs, yes, and I had a lot of fun with that in FF. The different kinds of crafting and gathering is definitely more interesting and it even has a little bit of RPG / quest content attached along with all the grinding for mats and to level it up.
For combat classes job changes are still similar to creating a new alt as a (tac, sci, eng) and using their powers and kit modules, changing ship types (tac + cannons, cruiser +beams, carrier, science ship), changing boff powers and clicky consoles.
Job changes in FFXIV is in no way the same as creating an alt in STO. I mean sure, there are gear that only certain roles are able to equip, meaning that if you want to play as a different role, you need to get equipment for that role. However, the beauty of the way equipment works in that game is that many classes share equipment sets. They split it up into Fending, Maiming, Casting, Healing, Striking, Aiming & Scouting (this last one is the only set that's unique right now). The fact that the classes share gear means that if you play say a Red Mage & take up the Summoner later, you'll have gear for both of them since they are both casters.
There's also the fact that you can do all of the classes on ONE character. In STO, if you want to play a different career, you need to create a new alt. STO though you're stuck as the species you create for the entire game as there is no change species token. In FFXIV, you can change your race if you have an item from the store, though like STO, you can also create an alt character as an alternative to paying since the item in question isn't cheap.
I'd also say that changing jobs in FFXIV comes with a lot more to it than changing ships, as there's only so much you can change with ships or even boffs in STO. Each job in FFXIV comes with its own unique set of skills & even playstyles. For me, I usually main a tank role & even within the Tanks, each one plays differently.
- Paladin: Specializing in self heals & damage via a couple of spells as well as Sword skills, it's by far the most self reliant of the Tanks.
- Warrior: This is the classic brute type tank, designed to be cleaving up enemies with Axes.
- Dark Knight: This class is all about using the darkness of one's own heart to attack enemies. It's the one class that's pretty reliant on healers since they don't get a good recovery move like the others.
- Gunbreaker: A class that utilizes a sword that can also utilize bullet attacks, slicing and blasting their way through enemies.
The fact that there's so much variety in FFXIV is what keeps me going back to that game. STO will still always be my first love though.
"There's also a bonus dil week. Yeah, they're not even trying at this point. I get that there's no "quick, easy fix", but what they're doing now is actively counterproductive."
I can't interpret it any other way than intentional. Besides that if you are actively playing the game you have ZERO need for more dilithium ore.
i dont play ff14, so i am asking about the comment from dave...
I can answer too as I am a currently active FF14 player as well.
how long does the content from FF differ from STO? (meaning, based on STO story arcs etc, is there more in STO or FF?)
FF14 just finished off the saga that was started back in 1.0 when the game was totally different and actually punished players for playing too long. Someone in Japan got the idea that long term playing of MMOs was bad and engineered a punishment into 1.0. YoshiP came in later and decided to literally end the world to rebuild the game from the ground up. But the story wasn't scrapped. Its been continuing from there since A Realm Reborn launched. While each espansion and patch content has its own theme, shuch as Heavensward being focused on the events around Ishgard, and the patch content for Heavensward focuses on ending the Dragonsong War, its all part of one massive story arc, involving Hydalyn and Zodiark, that just wrapped up in Endwalker. At least 10 years of storytelling. So... FF14 has lightyears more story content than STO.
does one have to repeat missions for set items?
Unlike most MMOs, FF14 doesn't have sets in the traditional sense. No real set bonuses. As dave mentioned, gear is based on level. But even if you outlevel gear, you can use it as cosmetic options, IE Transmog for those WoW veterans.
if two people were to start at the same time, one playing FF, and the other STO, who would finish first?
STO would finish first, hands down. Including all the expansions for FF14, You're probably looking at a few months of playtime IMO, and that's if you have no life and just live on the game. STO... I've been able to plow through the majority of the story in a few weeks, and hit level cap probably within a week.
it seems from discussions, that FF has more in depth crafting and other little things that keep it fresh compared to STO...is there more than crafting?
You have NO idea. Gathering and Crafting is a lot more integrated and hands on than STO. And there's no timegate on the crafting either. It kinda goes like this: Gather raw materials (both Mining and Botany), refine materials (using Blacksmith, Armorsmith, Goldsmith, Leatherworker, Weaver, Alchemist), craft item using appropriate crafter.
Making a full set of gear for a combat class can draw upon multiple crafting classes because weapon, armor, and accessories.
One nice aspect is one single character can eventually learn everything -- you can level up the same character in every job, each job has its own level. When you equip a piece of job gear your job instantly switches to that job.
Yes... who needs alt? One character... ALL classes!
Story episodes: I don't have a good handle on that. Both have a lot. FF XIV has more fetch quest / kill 18 deathbunny filler quests mixed in to stretch out the real story content.
Well... they did shave down the ARR patch content from the "100 quests of Hell" to about 75. And while there are some fetch quests and kill mob quests early on, the story does get more focus as times goes on, even if a fetch quest is involved there's usually story reasons for it. Not just "go get me 5 apples for no reason other than I want apples".
FF is fun. I'd recommend doing the free trial when you want a break from STO. Just be warned when that runs out you'll need to pay both the monthly sub and for content drops once the trial ends.
Well... you just need to pay for the expansions, which also include later patch content after the base expansion anyways.
All good points @rattler2, but you there's also one thing to highlight too when it comes to the story. There are points where the story in FFXIV will require you to enter say a dungeon or trial (the game's equivalent to TFOs) as part of the story. If you want to progress the story, you have to play it.
Before Shadowbringers came out, going through the dungeons & Trials require players to queue up for them with other players. As a result, you're going into the content with other players who may or may not be new. With the release of shadowbringers, they introduce what they call the trust system, a solo version where you can go into it instead with a party of NPCs that are main characters in the story.
This comes with it's own advantages & disadvantages though. On the plus side, you're going to be able to learn boss mechanics from the NPCs as they move out of the way of big attacks, so you're less likely to die, as well as be able to go at your own pace, or even go AFK for a moment without halting the dungeon progress, as the NPCs do not move without you. On the other hand, going in with the Trust means that you're going to complete it slower than you would with a party of players, since the NPCs focus on one enemy at a time. I have never tried playing through it as a healer, but I'm pretty sure that playing as a healer, you have to be on your toes with your own health since if you get KO'd, you have to start the fight all over.
STO did attempt the whole TFO as a part of the main episode chain before, but compared to the way FFXIV did it, STO just did it as a wrapper, saying Go and do this to beat it, without giving much in the way of a lead up as to why it's important. FFXIV makes it apart of the story so you get the sense that you're actually accomplishing something. I can only imagine what TFOs could be like if they played an important part in STO's story.
Skyforge probably had the best idea when it came to a single character doing everything eventually without getting rid of classes entirely (like Defiance did for instance, until that reboot version that killed it), changing class was a matter of using a dropdown menu which switched your loadout along with the class in one click. I actually liked the nodemap they had for that better than the rest of the game (which isn't really saying much since the game itself has serious issues).
Unfortunately, it was entirely (almost claustrophobically) lobby-based (there were also what they were calling "open map" sections, but they always were too tiny and repetitive to legitimately call them that, the biggest one was not even as big as Risa here) and once a field instance started no one else could get in so it was for the most part a solo or duo game. Beyond the tutorial story it was more or less a game of nothing but a grind of the equivalent of the same dozen or two soloable TFOs on endless repeat with only the difficulty changing.
On top of that, they wanted to have maps that "encouraged" you to change classes for various sections but apparently didn't think it through very well, so the quick-change class structure wasn't quite as free and open as they thought since the maps often required specific combat styles and near-perfect combo rotations (or overpowered-for-its-level gear) to make it through.
STO's mission-based format is a bit like a lobby but not obnoxiously so, and alt slots are plentiful and cheap to buy so the single class thing is not so big of a problem.
A question for the FF players: how linear is the campaign structure? Is it more go-your-own-path like STO and ESO or more linear like SWTOR?
I haven't played Champions Online in a long time, but decided to log in today to do a quick alert because their just quick dumb fun.
Anyway, Champs "dilex" is still working. It's around 400, and I traded 30k "dil" (their version) and instantly got 89 zen.
I don't play the game enough to speak on depth on their economy, but I know they don't have fleet holdings. I wonder why their "dilex" still works, while STO's and NW's doesn't?
Skyforge probably had the best idea when it came to a single character doing everything eventually without getting rid of classes entirely (like Defiance did for instance, until that reboot version that killed it), changing class was a matter of using a dropdown menu which switched your loadout along with the class in one click. I actually liked the nodemap they had for that better than the rest of the game (which isn't really saying much since the game itself has serious issues).
Unfortunately, it was entirely (almost claustrophobically) lobby-based (there were also what they were calling "open map" sections, but they always were too tiny and repetitive to legitimately call them that, the biggest one was not even as big as Risa here) and once a field instance started no one else could get in so it was for the most part a solo or duo game. Beyond the tutorial story it was more or less a game of nothing but a grind of the equivalent of the same dozen or two soloable TFOs on endless repeat with only the difficulty changing.
On top of that, they wanted to have maps that "encouraged" you to change classes for various sections but apparently didn't think it through very well, so the quick-change class structure wasn't quite as free and open as they thought since the maps often required specific combat styles and near-perfect combo rotations (or overpowered-for-its-level gear) to make it through.
STO's mission-based format is a bit like a lobby but not obnoxiously so, and alt slots are plentiful and cheap to buy so the single class thing is not so big of a problem.
A question for the FF players: how linear is the campaign structure? Is it more go-your-own-path like STO and ESO or more linear like SWTOR?
So, in terms of the story, its pretty linear that you have to progress through the story if you want to go to new areas. For example, you have access to all the areas of the base game, but to access expansion areas, you have to not only have the expansion purchased, but you have to reach the point in the story that the game will allow you to move into said area. Once you do though, you can do some exploration, but certain areas even the new areas will remain inaccessible until you've reached a point in the story that enables you to go there.
There's actually a lot of story apart from the main scenario. There are 8 player raids that have a story associated with them that are like side post-game content that offers new gear, 24 player alliance raids that have their own story associated with them, and also relic weapons. Relic weapons are a unique strong weapon that players can upgrade by progressing the story associated with it, with the end result being a strong weapon that will be the best weapon they have at the start of the next expansion. However, the post-game stuff always comes out in planned smaller regular content updates, so players have some breathing room between releases, especially since new content always comes with a learning curve for boss mechanics.
I haven't played Champions Online in a long time, but decided to log in today to do a quick alert because their just quick dumb fun.
Anyway, Champs "dilex" is still working. It's around 400, and I traded 30k "dil" (their version) and instantly got 89 zen.
I don't play the game enough to speak on depth on their economy, but I know they don't have fleet holdings. I wonder why their "dilex" still works, while STO's and NW's doesn't?
I think to answer that question, you might have to examine what they sell in their respective stores.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
A question for the FF players: how linear is the campaign structure? Is it more go-your-own-path like STO and ESO or more linear like SWTOR?
Its linear, however class, or having certain classes, as well as having completed certain bits of side content, does have an impact as it is brought up. My main class is Machinist, but in a cutscene I was acknowledged as the Azure Dragoon, as I had played for most of the game as a Dragoon and have leveled that class up.
Also dialog choices also can have an impact on the cutscene. In one in Shadowbringers, while you and your companions are surrounded, one of your options is "Um... Kupo?" which prompts Thancred to deadpan you for it not being funny when we have to start fighting. Ultimately the destination is the same, but you can have some fun along the way.
Also in character creation your first class determines your starting city. As a Lancer I started in Gridania. A Gladiator would start in Ul'dah, and an Arcanist would start in Limsa Lominsa. So the story has 3 different beginnings based on starting city, but merges into one.
Also I believe in some cases your race also plays a part as someone would note if you're a Miqo'te or something. Its especially noticable early on in Shadowbringers since you're pulled into another world and, using Miqo'te as an example, they call you a Mystel instead, since all the same races exist there but are called something else, and you can show annoyance in response.
Also the player character is not voiced other than non talking stuff, so laughing and stuff. However it is indicated that your character DOES speak, despite no voiced lines. There's also jokes about having strong neck muscles from years of stoic nodding.
Another cool thing is that each race has its own personality traits. Vira tend to be rather subdued in their mannerisms, while Miqo'te are quite expressive. Not quite sure on the other races, but I'm pretty sure Hyur (pretty much humans) land somewhere in the middle in expressions.
I haven't played Champions Online in a long time, but decided to log in today to do a quick alert because their just quick dumb fun.
Anyway, Champs "dilex" is still working. It's around 400, and I traded 30k "dil" (their version) and instantly got 89 zen.
I don't play the game enough to speak on depth on their economy, but I know they don't have fleet holdings. I wonder why their "dilex" still works, while STO's and NW's doesn't?
Neverwinter's never worked, mostly because the Exchange also used Diamonds (Our Dilithium) rather than Gold (Our Energy Credits) so to speak. And then they made it worse as when they introduced Account-Refinement, that made the problem far worst as several could suddenly REFINE on the millions of millions of backlogged (Diamonds) they had on several characters.
I wouldn't want them to restrict special events though like bonus DIL weekends, or what have you as many still need or require those.
I mostly hope they are considering upgrading Fleet Tier III Holdings out to Tier IV, then maybe introduce a Ferengi Commerce Commission Holding in time.
A question for the FF players: how linear is the campaign structure? Is it more go-your-own-path like STO and ESO or more linear like SWTOR?
Its linear, however class, or having certain classes, as well as having completed certain bits of side content, does have an impact as it is brought up. My main class is Machinist, but in a cutscene I was acknowledged as the Azure Dragoon, as I had played for most of the game as a Dragoon and have leveled that class up.
Also dialog choices also can have an impact on the cutscene. In one in Shadowbringers, while you and your companions are surrounded, one of your options is "Um... Kupo?" which prompts Thancred to deadpan you for it not being funny when we have to start fighting. Ultimately the destination is the same, but you can have some fun along the way.
Also in character creation your first class determines your starting city. As a Lancer I started in Gridania. A Gladiator would start in Ul'dah, and an Arcanist would start in Limsa Lominsa. So the story has 3 different beginnings based on starting city, but merges into one.
Also I believe in some cases your race also plays a part as someone would note if you're a Miqo'te or something. Its especially noticable early on in Shadowbringers since you're pulled into another world and, using Miqo'te as an example, they call you a Mystel instead, since all the same races exist there but are called something else, and you can show annoyance in response.
Also the player character is not voiced other than non talking stuff, so laughing and stuff. However it is indicated that your character DOES speak, despite no voiced lines. There's also jokes about having strong neck muscles from years of stoic nodding.
Another cool thing is that each race has its own personality traits. Vira tend to be rather subdued in their mannerisms, while Miqo'te are quite expressive. Not quite sure on the other races, but I'm pretty sure Hyur (pretty much humans) land somewhere in the middle in expressions.
Thank you for the information, it sounds interesting. I have not tried the trial version because those tend to be annoying when they run out.
If I did start the game however, I tend to go for hybrid mage/fighter types if available (like the old Daggerfall Sorceress, not the ESO Magicka Sorc which actually is what Daggerfall called the Mage class) which looks like it would equate to Red Mage in FF which apparently starts out as Arcanist (and which probably could not even be reached with the trial version).
Race would probably be Au Ra or Miqo’te, though Elezen and Viera look interesting too.
I was only able to start ESO because of the very deep cuts in price during their Black Friday sale, something I don't think FF does (and managing two subs would be impossible so it would have to be ESO or FF, not both) so, sadly, it is unlikely I will ever play FF unless they go to some form of F2P.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A question for the FF players: how linear is the campaign structure? Is it more go-your-own-path like STO and ESO or more linear like SWTOR?
Its linear, however class, or having certain classes, as well as having completed certain bits of side content, does have an impact as it is brought up. My main class is Machinist, but in a cutscene I was acknowledged as the Azure Dragoon, as I had played for most of the game as a Dragoon and have leveled that class up.
Also dialog choices also can have an impact on the cutscene. In one in Shadowbringers, while you and your companions are surrounded, one of your options is "Um... Kupo?" which prompts Thancred to deadpan you for it not being funny when we have to start fighting. Ultimately the destination is the same, but you can have some fun along the way.
Also in character creation your first class determines your starting city. As a Lancer I started in Gridania. A Gladiator would start in Ul'dah, and an Arcanist would start in Limsa Lominsa. So the story has 3 different beginnings based on starting city, but merges into one.
Also I believe in some cases your race also plays a part as someone would note if you're a Miqo'te or something. Its especially noticable early on in Shadowbringers since you're pulled into another world and, using Miqo'te as an example, they call you a Mystel instead, since all the same races exist there but are called something else, and you can show annoyance in response.
Also the player character is not voiced other than non talking stuff, so laughing and stuff. However it is indicated that your character DOES speak, despite no voiced lines. There's also jokes about having strong neck muscles from years of stoic nodding.
Another cool thing is that each race has its own personality traits. Vira tend to be rather subdued in their mannerisms, while Miqo'te are quite expressive. Not quite sure on the other races, but I'm pretty sure Hyur (pretty much humans) land somewhere in the middle in expressions.
Thank you for the information, it sounds interesting. I have not tried the trial version because those tend to be annoying when they run out.
If I did start the game however, I tend to go for hybrid mage/fighter types if available (like the old Daggerfall Sorceress, not the ESO Magicka Sorc which actually is what Daggerfall called the Mage class) which looks like it would equate to Red Mage in FF which apparently starts out as Arcanist (and which probably could not even be reached with the trial version).
Race would probably be Au Ra or Miqo’te, though Elezen and Viera look interesting too.
I was only able to start ESO because of the very deep cuts in price during their Black Friday sale, something I don't think FF does (and managing two subs would be impossible so it would have to be ESO or FF, not both) so, sadly, it is unlikely I will ever play FF unless they go to some form of F2P.
So, FF typically does 50% off sales on the full game, but that was before they released Endwalker, the 4th expansion. Since the expansion dropped, the servers have had up to 2000 people in a queue for the world I play on, Faerie on Aether Data Center (a big server) during peak US times which usually is from like 2:30 pm pacific to around 9 pm pacific time week days, and a little earlier on the weekends. Free trial players cannot play during peak times & right now, registration for new accounts & purchasing of the game are both suspended to ease the amount of people with the game.
In regards to the Red Mage, that's a class that free trial players cannot pick up, as the class can only be picked up by people who have access to Stormblood (the 2nd expansion) or later. It's a class that requires a combat class that has reached level 50 also for, meaning that new players can't get it until they reach that point.
A class that someone on the free trial CAN get access to that's a magic user is the Summoner, which has the Arcanist as a base.
Champions' 'Dilex' still works because they actually have TRIBBLE worth BUYING for Qnite.
Why I'd like to see a two tongued approach (which should be obvious) as they add more Tier IV holdings, increase the cost of several individual items in DIL from those holdings by 25-35% at the next tier too.
It's actually not that difficult to do, just got to find stuff that people will want. They did a single add one R&D slot that cost a fair # Fleet Marks at Research, maybe adding Tier IV would add another this time that cost Fleet Credit & DIL for those who want it.
The logical choice is expanding Fleet Holdings once again, after they increase Tier III to IV and refresh some of the older maps with an update/refresh.
Thank you for the information, it sounds interesting. I have not tried the trial version because those tend to be annoying when they run out.
If I did start the game however, I tend to go for hybrid mage/fighter types if available (like the old Daggerfall Sorceress, not the ESO Magicka Sorc which actually is what Daggerfall called the Mage class) which looks like it would equate to Red Mage in FF which apparently starts out as Arcanist (and which probably could not even be reached with the trial version).
Race would probably be Au Ra or Miqo’te, though Elezen and Viera look interesting too.
I was only able to start ESO because of the very deep cuts in price during their Black Friday sale, something I don't think FF does (and managing two subs would be impossible so it would have to be ESO or FF, not both) so, sadly, it is unlikely I will ever play FF unless they go to some form of F2P.
As of right now I don't think FF14 is actually letting new accounts come in until they can get a handle on some population issues (They want to add more servers but Pandemic supply issues being a PITA on getting components). The base ARR casters are Taumaturge (evolves into Black Mage), Arcanist (evolves into Summoner and Scholar), and Conjurer (evolves into White Mage).
So, FF typically does 50% off sales on the full game, but that was before they released Endwalker, the 4th expansion. Since the expansion dropped, the servers have had up to 2000 people in a queue for the world I play on, Faerie on Aether Data Center (a big server) during peak US times which usually is from like 2:30 pm pacific to around 9 pm pacific time week days, and a little earlier on the weekends. Free trial players cannot play during peak times & right now, registration for new accounts & purchasing of the game are both suspended to ease the amount of people with the game.
I'm on Malboro over on Crystal. The queue times have dropped quite a bit, but right after Endwalker it was rediculus.
<Devil's Advocate>
I'm just gonna play "Devil's Advocate" here for a moment, I think the reason the Devs stopped making fleet holdings is actually twofold.
1. the reason Nagus stated, manpower, it takes a lot of dev hours to create a new holding. And for little direct profit (compared to dev time invested) on the company's bottom line.
2. For every fleet holding that is made the UI gets even more congested, additionally it raises the bar for new fleets to catch up. I don't think the devs want to discourage players from making new fleets by having so many fleet holdings.
I do not have any direct quotes from the devs but I highly suspect the above is the case.
</Devil's Advocate>
Personally, I do agree with the Nagus, the lack of fleet development has damaged the economy, along with Admirality, dilithium from every mission, and the constant Zen-costing sales and promotions.
This is actually a multi-faceted problem, which is easily explained: There is too much dilithium entering the economy and not enough leaving it.
(The dilithium exchange doesn't count as a proper dilithium sink as the dilithium isn't actually leaving the economy it is just shuffling between players.)
Adding a new fleet holding would solve the issue. Temporarily. Once the larger fleets started to max out the new holding we would be right back here complaining about the Dil exchange.
I'm not saying the devs shouldn't do it. But it cannot be the 'end all' solution we want. Any permanent dil-sink added to the game needs to be something that players would buy into over and over. Fleet holdings, equipment upgrades, and ships are generally one-and-done. Once someone has the shiny they usually aren't going to buy it again.
What we really need (though this is likely going to be an unpopular opinion) are affordable, and useful consumables to be sold for dilithium. Single-use Admirality ships come to mind off hand. I'm sure there are more possibilities to be had here given enough thought.
TL;DR: Point is, Fleet holdings would help, but would require significant persistent work by the devs. What would be more ideal is an attractive consumable that players would want to purchase again and again. Something that won't require constant dev time and would yield persistent results.
For the record, I did not make the above post today. A mod apparently used my account to bump this thread. That above post was not me and not made today by me.
Mods, please do not post using other people's accounts.
<Devil's Advocate>
I'm just gonna play "Devil's Advocate" here for a moment, I think the reason the Devs stopped making fleet holdings is actually twofold.
1. the reason Nagus stated, manpower, it takes a lot of dev hours to create a new holding. And for little direct profit (compared to dev time invested) on the company's bottom line.
2. For every fleet holding that is made the UI gets even more congested, additionally it raises the bar for new fleets to catch up. I don't think the devs want to discourage players from making new fleets by having so many fleet holdings.
I do not have any direct quotes from the devs but I highly suspect the above is the case.
</Devil's Advocate>
Personally, I do agree with the Nagus, the lack of fleet development has damaged the economy, along with Admirality, dilithium from every mission, and the constant Zen-costing sales and promotions.
This is actually a multi-faceted problem, which is easily explained: There is too much dilithium entering the economy and not enough leaving it.
(The dilithium exchange doesn't count as a proper dilithium sink as the dilithium isn't actually leaving the economy it is just shuffling between players.)
Adding a new fleet holding would solve the issue. Temporarily. Once the larger fleets started to max out the new holding we would be right back here complaining about the Dil exchange.
I'm not saying the devs shouldn't do it. But it cannot be the 'end all' solution we want. Any permanent dil-sink added to the game needs to be something that players would buy into over and over. Fleet holdings, equipment upgrades, and ships are generally one-and-done. Once someone has the shiny they usually aren't going to buy it again.
What we really need (though this is likely going to be an unpopular opinion) are affordable, and useful consumables to be sold for dilithium. Single-use Admirality ships come to mind off hand. I'm sure there are more possibilities to be had here given enough thought.
TL;DR: Point is, Fleet holdings would help, but would require significant persistent work by the devs. What would be more ideal is an attractive consumable that players would want to purchase again and again. Something that won't require constant dev time and would yield persistent results.
That second point is interesting.
Players say that we need new holdings because they act as a sink.
But imagine how big a sink fleets might be if creating and levelling one wasn't so burdensome. In fact, creating ever more holdings might well reduce the effectiveness of the system as a sink.
For the record, I did not make the above post today. A mod apparently used my account to bump this thread. That above post was not me and not made today by me.
Mods, please do not post using other people's accounts.
That is quite a accusation. @rattler2 heads up regarding this.
For the record, I did not make the above post today. A mod apparently used my account to bump this thread. That above post was not me and not made today by me.
Mods, please do not post using other people's accounts.
Sorry, @trekfangrrrl#6910, that was my fault, I cleaned out the spam queue earlier and that post was in there. For some stupid reason when you do that it sticks the restored posts onto the end of the thread they came from instead of with the timestamp when they were posted.
On the bright side, you won't have any more problems with the edit monster eating your post.
Just a thought we need a alliance starbase that allows the combining of kdf and fed fleets( fleet chooses name to keep or allow both titles depending on faction to exist. This new holding should really be a customizable feature that allows for fleet achievements to be displayed in the starbase. Unlockable customization through dilithium, and new special antiproton arrays+cannons that have phasers/disruptors/plasma/poloron all in one proc as well as the normal critD buff from antiproton. New alliance fleet ships, just variants of existing fleet ships with alliance materials and C-storeships for fleet modules and dilithium. The cudagrah would be player housing in the form of a captains room + holodeck RNR suite. The captains room would be a place to display achievements and the RNR holodeck is your own custom area, that you can speed dilithium to buy stuff to decorate etc, as well as I'm sure c-store exclusive locations.
I also think this patch should do a major balance pass of all ships, through the introduction of carrier specific gear or mechanic, new cruiser gear, introduction of a armor system that allows them to make more challenging content, without touching old easy content and all this new gear would have support in the new Alliance starbase. I know this is a dream patch, but players need more reasons to buy dilithium from other players, and players in general need more to spend their dilithium on. What better then space home maker.
How interesting. I thought that post was lost to the void long ago.
No matter, my opinions haven't changed.
Fleet development should continue, but I don't believe making the fleet system look like our current Reputation system is an ideal solution.
Regardless of what my opinions are. I doubt we will see any solution being introduced for some time. The developers need to first determine a proper course of action and then try to fit it into their (likely crowded) development schedule.
Just gonna have to sit back and ride this out for a while.
Comments
I haven't played in a couple of years but:
- There is different gear for different "jobs" (mage types, fighter types, rogue types, crafting types) - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/
- Gear is at fixed levels and the level is not upgradeable (unless that has changed)
- There is a lot more varied crafting available, and the the different mat grinding systems are more interesting (like mining and going fishing), but mat grinding is indeed grindy. Unlike STO you need to cook 10,000 meals instead of doing one daily XP project 100 times like STO allows.
- You'll need to grind mats and/or raids to gear up, and keep doing it as you out-level old gear. Like STO you'll also get gear as quest rewards.
One nice aspect is one single character can eventually learn everything -- you can level up the same character in every job, each job has its own level. When you equip a piece of job gear your job instantly switches to that job.
Story episodes: I don't have a good handle on that. Both have a lot. FF XIV has more fetch quest / kill 18 deathbunny filler quests mixed in to stretch out the real story content.
FF is fun. I'd recommend doing the free trial when you want a break from STO. Just be warned when that runs out you'll need to pay both the monthly sub and for content drops once the trial ends.
Which is why I was surprised that so many people defended the decision to take away the pass and reroll tokens. Because I immediately realised that it wouldn't have any positive impact, it'd just take away something from players.
More jobs, yes, and I had a lot of fun with that in FF. The different kinds of crafting and gathering is definitely more interesting and it even has a little bit of RPG / quest content attached along with all the grinding for mats and to level it up.
For combat classes job changes are still similar to creating a new alt as a (tac, sci, eng) and using their powers and kit modules, changing ship types (tac + cannons, cruiser +beams, carrier, science ship), changing boff powers and clicky consoles.
Cryptic If I remember correctly were upfront when they released the Legacy of Romulus dev blogs that the Romulans would be choosing either the Klingons or Federation as allies. They also said that they would remain independent with their own storyline (which ends right the original Romulan Featured series with Obisek wanting Reman freedom), their own ships & their own faction hub, though they could visit those of their allies. What they didn't want to do at the time was make it so that the player base would be fractured by giving them their own starbase & have to build that up. Instead, by giving them access to the Federation or Klingon starbases, it would help to bolster the ranks of the existing fleets.
The idea behind no more faction specific content was that they wanted to have the story unified so that everything that was happening in the story would be happening concurrently for the three factions. It's easier for them to do 1 storyline for the three factions than have to give 3 separate versions that tell the same story pretty much.
I think their plan was always to have the factions merge in order to go through one contiguous storyline, since the thing they've been building up for years was that the Iconians would be the enemy that they would have to fight against. It didn't make sense to have the Klingons & Federation fighting when the Iconians were the enemy that needed to be dealt with, even more than the Borg.
In regards to the whole PWE not wanting STO to be game, I feel that they were doing what they've been doing to keep STO funded. Remember that PWE is NOT a company like Square Enix that makes millions a year & has several hundred people each working to develop games for them. I think Perfect World's team sizes were like that of Cryptic, kept small so that they could keep costs down since they didn't charge for things like subscriptions, or even paid expansions.
Personal holdings essentially sound like another name for Player housing, which is something that they don't plan on doing. Even in FFXIV, player housing is something that remains limited in that game. Originally, the game only had 4 residential areas in which people had to fight over houses for. They've already prepared a 5th residential area that people can go see the layout now, but houses are NOT yet available for buying. That's coming in the next big content drop which will also start the a new chapter in the game's story. They don't add new items all to often to the houses, since they take time to develop.
With Gearbox, I'm sure the publishing company will want to see profits, but the merger isn't done yet. I figure the impact of the merger will likely start being felt once STO's anniversary comes and goes. We should start seeing the anniversary stuff towards the end of this month.
Now, addressing your other point in regards to people who don't want to pay a dime to this game, you do understand that some of us who don't pay anything in this game don't simply do it because we don't want to, right? Some of us actually CAN'T. I know this is weird coming from me since I play FFXIV, but for that game, my sub is paid for by close friends, so I'm able to enjoy the game with them. I'd love it if I could afford anything in STO that I wanted, but that isn't the case, so I had to rely on the Dil Ex for the longest time.
I don't plan on leaving this game though 100%. I still log into the game to partake in the special events like Episode releases, Red Alerts, Event Campaigns & seasonal events, as I don't want to really miss out on those rewards. However, with the Dil Ex taking as long as it does to complete transactions, my days of getting ships that way is likely numbered now. I'll just wait for the next campaign event & see what rewards they offer.
FF14 just finished off the saga that was started back in 1.0 when the game was totally different and actually punished players for playing too long. Someone in Japan got the idea that long term playing of MMOs was bad and engineered a punishment into 1.0. YoshiP came in later and decided to literally end the world to rebuild the game from the ground up. But the story wasn't scrapped. Its been continuing from there since A Realm Reborn launched. While each espansion and patch content has its own theme, shuch as Heavensward being focused on the events around Ishgard, and the patch content for Heavensward focuses on ending the Dragonsong War, its all part of one massive story arc, involving Hydalyn and Zodiark, that just wrapped up in Endwalker. At least 10 years of storytelling. So... FF14 has lightyears more story content than STO. Unlike most MMOs, FF14 doesn't have sets in the traditional sense. No real set bonuses. As dave mentioned, gear is based on level. But even if you outlevel gear, you can use it as cosmetic options, IE Transmog for those WoW veterans. STO would finish first, hands down. Including all the expansions for FF14, You're probably looking at a few months of playtime IMO, and that's if you have no life and just live on the game. STO... I've been able to plow through the majority of the story in a few weeks, and hit level cap probably within a week. You have NO idea. Gathering and Crafting is a lot more integrated and hands on than STO. And there's no timegate on the crafting either. It kinda goes like this: Gather raw materials (both Mining and Botany), refine materials (using Blacksmith, Armorsmith, Goldsmith, Leatherworker, Weaver, Alchemist), craft item using appropriate crafter.
Making a full set of gear for a combat class can draw upon multiple crafting classes because weapon, armor, and accessories.
Yes... who needs alt? One character... ALL classes!
Well... they did shave down the ARR patch content from the "100 quests of Hell" to about 75. And while there are some fetch quests and kill mob quests early on, the story does get more focus as times goes on, even if a fetch quest is involved there's usually story reasons for it. Not just "go get me 5 apples for no reason other than I want apples".
Well... you just need to pay for the expansions, which also include later patch content after the base expansion anyways.
Job changes in FFXIV is in no way the same as creating an alt in STO. I mean sure, there are gear that only certain roles are able to equip, meaning that if you want to play as a different role, you need to get equipment for that role. However, the beauty of the way equipment works in that game is that many classes share equipment sets. They split it up into Fending, Maiming, Casting, Healing, Striking, Aiming & Scouting (this last one is the only set that's unique right now). The fact that the classes share gear means that if you play say a Red Mage & take up the Summoner later, you'll have gear for both of them since they are both casters.
There's also the fact that you can do all of the classes on ONE character. In STO, if you want to play a different career, you need to create a new alt. STO though you're stuck as the species you create for the entire game as there is no change species token. In FFXIV, you can change your race if you have an item from the store, though like STO, you can also create an alt character as an alternative to paying since the item in question isn't cheap.
I'd also say that changing jobs in FFXIV comes with a lot more to it than changing ships, as there's only so much you can change with ships or even boffs in STO. Each job in FFXIV comes with its own unique set of skills & even playstyles. For me, I usually main a tank role & even within the Tanks, each one plays differently.
- Paladin: Specializing in self heals & damage via a couple of spells as well as Sword skills, it's by far the most self reliant of the Tanks.
- Warrior: This is the classic brute type tank, designed to be cleaving up enemies with Axes.
- Dark Knight: This class is all about using the darkness of one's own heart to attack enemies. It's the one class that's pretty reliant on healers since they don't get a good recovery move like the others.
- Gunbreaker: A class that utilizes a sword that can also utilize bullet attacks, slicing and blasting their way through enemies.
The fact that there's so much variety in FFXIV is what keeps me going back to that game. STO will still always be my first love though.
I can't interpret it any other way than intentional. Besides that if you are actively playing the game you have ZERO need for more dilithium ore.
All good points @rattler2, but you there's also one thing to highlight too when it comes to the story. There are points where the story in FFXIV will require you to enter say a dungeon or trial (the game's equivalent to TFOs) as part of the story. If you want to progress the story, you have to play it.
Before Shadowbringers came out, going through the dungeons & Trials require players to queue up for them with other players. As a result, you're going into the content with other players who may or may not be new. With the release of shadowbringers, they introduce what they call the trust system, a solo version where you can go into it instead with a party of NPCs that are main characters in the story.
This comes with it's own advantages & disadvantages though. On the plus side, you're going to be able to learn boss mechanics from the NPCs as they move out of the way of big attacks, so you're less likely to die, as well as be able to go at your own pace, or even go AFK for a moment without halting the dungeon progress, as the NPCs do not move without you. On the other hand, going in with the Trust means that you're going to complete it slower than you would with a party of players, since the NPCs focus on one enemy at a time. I have never tried playing through it as a healer, but I'm pretty sure that playing as a healer, you have to be on your toes with your own health since if you get KO'd, you have to start the fight all over.
STO did attempt the whole TFO as a part of the main episode chain before, but compared to the way FFXIV did it, STO just did it as a wrapper, saying Go and do this to beat it, without giving much in the way of a lead up as to why it's important. FFXIV makes it apart of the story so you get the sense that you're actually accomplishing something. I can only imagine what TFOs could be like if they played an important part in STO's story.
Unfortunately, it was entirely (almost claustrophobically) lobby-based (there were also what they were calling "open map" sections, but they always were too tiny and repetitive to legitimately call them that, the biggest one was not even as big as Risa here) and once a field instance started no one else could get in so it was for the most part a solo or duo game. Beyond the tutorial story it was more or less a game of nothing but a grind of the equivalent of the same dozen or two soloable TFOs on endless repeat with only the difficulty changing.
On top of that, they wanted to have maps that "encouraged" you to change classes for various sections but apparently didn't think it through very well, so the quick-change class structure wasn't quite as free and open as they thought since the maps often required specific combat styles and near-perfect combo rotations (or overpowered-for-its-level gear) to make it through.
STO's mission-based format is a bit like a lobby but not obnoxiously so, and alt slots are plentiful and cheap to buy so the single class thing is not so big of a problem.
A question for the FF players: how linear is the campaign structure? Is it more go-your-own-path like STO and ESO or more linear like SWTOR?
I haven't played Champions Online in a long time, but decided to log in today to do a quick alert because their just quick dumb fun.
Anyway, Champs "dilex" is still working. It's around 400, and I traded 30k "dil" (their version) and instantly got 89 zen.
I don't play the game enough to speak on depth on their economy, but I know they don't have fleet holdings. I wonder why their "dilex" still works, while STO's and NW's doesn't?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
So, in terms of the story, its pretty linear that you have to progress through the story if you want to go to new areas. For example, you have access to all the areas of the base game, but to access expansion areas, you have to not only have the expansion purchased, but you have to reach the point in the story that the game will allow you to move into said area. Once you do though, you can do some exploration, but certain areas even the new areas will remain inaccessible until you've reached a point in the story that enables you to go there.
There's actually a lot of story apart from the main scenario. There are 8 player raids that have a story associated with them that are like side post-game content that offers new gear, 24 player alliance raids that have their own story associated with them, and also relic weapons. Relic weapons are a unique strong weapon that players can upgrade by progressing the story associated with it, with the end result being a strong weapon that will be the best weapon they have at the start of the next expansion. However, the post-game stuff always comes out in planned smaller regular content updates, so players have some breathing room between releases, especially since new content always comes with a learning curve for boss mechanics.
I think to answer that question, you might have to examine what they sell in their respective stores.
Its linear, however class, or having certain classes, as well as having completed certain bits of side content, does have an impact as it is brought up. My main class is Machinist, but in a cutscene I was acknowledged as the Azure Dragoon, as I had played for most of the game as a Dragoon and have leveled that class up.
Also dialog choices also can have an impact on the cutscene. In one in Shadowbringers, while you and your companions are surrounded, one of your options is "Um... Kupo?" which prompts Thancred to deadpan you for it not being funny when we have to start fighting. Ultimately the destination is the same, but you can have some fun along the way.
Also in character creation your first class determines your starting city. As a Lancer I started in Gridania. A Gladiator would start in Ul'dah, and an Arcanist would start in Limsa Lominsa. So the story has 3 different beginnings based on starting city, but merges into one.
Also I believe in some cases your race also plays a part as someone would note if you're a Miqo'te or something. Its especially noticable early on in Shadowbringers since you're pulled into another world and, using Miqo'te as an example, they call you a Mystel instead, since all the same races exist there but are called something else, and you can show annoyance in response.
Also the player character is not voiced other than non talking stuff, so laughing and stuff. However it is indicated that your character DOES speak, despite no voiced lines. There's also jokes about having strong neck muscles from years of stoic nodding.
Another cool thing is that each race has its own personality traits. Vira tend to be rather subdued in their mannerisms, while Miqo'te are quite expressive. Not quite sure on the other races, but I'm pretty sure Hyur (pretty much humans) land somewhere in the middle in expressions.
Neverwinter's never worked, mostly because the Exchange also used Diamonds (Our Dilithium) rather than Gold (Our Energy Credits) so to speak. And then they made it worse as when they introduced Account-Refinement, that made the problem far worst as several could suddenly REFINE on the millions of millions of backlogged (Diamonds) they had on several characters.
I wouldn't want them to restrict special events though like bonus DIL weekends, or what have you as many still need or require those.
I mostly hope they are considering upgrading Fleet Tier III Holdings out to Tier IV, then maybe introduce a Ferengi Commerce Commission Holding in time.
Thank you for the information, it sounds interesting. I have not tried the trial version because those tend to be annoying when they run out.
If I did start the game however, I tend to go for hybrid mage/fighter types if available (like the old Daggerfall Sorceress, not the ESO Magicka Sorc which actually is what Daggerfall called the Mage class) which looks like it would equate to Red Mage in FF which apparently starts out as Arcanist (and which probably could not even be reached with the trial version).
Race would probably be Au Ra or Miqo’te, though Elezen and Viera look interesting too.
I was only able to start ESO because of the very deep cuts in price during their Black Friday sale, something I don't think FF does (and managing two subs would be impossible so it would have to be ESO or FF, not both) so, sadly, it is unlikely I will ever play FF unless they go to some form of F2P.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
So, FF typically does 50% off sales on the full game, but that was before they released Endwalker, the 4th expansion. Since the expansion dropped, the servers have had up to 2000 people in a queue for the world I play on, Faerie on Aether Data Center (a big server) during peak US times which usually is from like 2:30 pm pacific to around 9 pm pacific time week days, and a little earlier on the weekends. Free trial players cannot play during peak times & right now, registration for new accounts & purchasing of the game are both suspended to ease the amount of people with the game.
In regards to the Red Mage, that's a class that free trial players cannot pick up, as the class can only be picked up by people who have access to Stormblood (the 2nd expansion) or later. It's a class that requires a combat class that has reached level 50 also for, meaning that new players can't get it until they reach that point.
A class that someone on the free trial CAN get access to that's a magic user is the Summoner, which has the Arcanist as a base.
Why I'd like to see a two tongued approach (which should be obvious) as they add more Tier IV holdings, increase the cost of several individual items in DIL from those holdings by 25-35% at the next tier too.
It's actually not that difficult to do, just got to find stuff that people will want. They did a single add one R&D slot that cost a fair # Fleet Marks at Research, maybe adding Tier IV would add another this time that cost Fleet Credit & DIL for those who want it.
The logical choice is expanding Fleet Holdings once again, after they increase Tier III to IV and refresh some of the older maps with an update/refresh.
As of right now I don't think FF14 is actually letting new accounts come in until they can get a handle on some population issues (They want to add more servers but Pandemic supply issues being a PITA on getting components). The base ARR casters are Taumaturge (evolves into Black Mage), Arcanist (evolves into Summoner and Scholar), and Conjurer (evolves into White Mage).
I'm on Malboro over on Crystal. The queue times have dropped quite a bit, but right after Endwalker it was rediculus.
I'm just gonna play "Devil's Advocate" here for a moment, I think the reason the Devs stopped making fleet holdings is actually twofold.
1. the reason Nagus stated, manpower, it takes a lot of dev hours to create a new holding. And for little direct profit (compared to dev time invested) on the company's bottom line.
2. For every fleet holding that is made the UI gets even more congested, additionally it raises the bar for new fleets to catch up. I don't think the devs want to discourage players from making new fleets by having so many fleet holdings.
I do not have any direct quotes from the devs but I highly suspect the above is the case.
</Devil's Advocate>
Personally, I do agree with the Nagus, the lack of fleet development has damaged the economy, along with Admirality, dilithium from every mission, and the constant Zen-costing sales and promotions.
This is actually a multi-faceted problem, which is easily explained: There is too much dilithium entering the economy and not enough leaving it.
(The dilithium exchange doesn't count as a proper dilithium sink as the dilithium isn't actually leaving the economy it is just shuffling between players.)
Adding a new fleet holding would solve the issue. Temporarily. Once the larger fleets started to max out the new holding we would be right back here complaining about the Dil exchange.
I'm not saying the devs shouldn't do it. But it cannot be the 'end all' solution we want. Any permanent dil-sink added to the game needs to be something that players would buy into over and over. Fleet holdings, equipment upgrades, and ships are generally one-and-done. Once someone has the shiny they usually aren't going to buy it again.
What we really need (though this is likely going to be an unpopular opinion) are affordable, and useful consumables to be sold for dilithium. Single-use Admirality ships come to mind off hand. I'm sure there are more possibilities to be had here given enough thought.
TL;DR: Point is, Fleet holdings would help, but would require significant persistent work by the devs. What would be more ideal is an attractive consumable that players would want to purchase again and again. Something that won't require constant dev time and would yield persistent results.
Mods, please do not post using other people's accounts.
That second point is interesting.
Players say that we need new holdings because they act as a sink.
But imagine how big a sink fleets might be if creating and levelling one wasn't so burdensome. In fact, creating ever more holdings might well reduce the effectiveness of the system as a sink.
That is quite a accusation. @rattler2 heads up regarding this.
Sorry, @trekfangrrrl#6910, that was my fault, I cleaned out the spam queue earlier and that post was in there. For some stupid reason when you do that it sticks the restored posts onto the end of the thread they came from instead of with the timestamp when they were posted.
On the bright side, you won't have any more problems with the edit monster eating your post.
...THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!
I also think this patch should do a major balance pass of all ships, through the introduction of carrier specific gear or mechanic, new cruiser gear, introduction of a armor system that allows them to make more challenging content, without touching old easy content and all this new gear would have support in the new Alliance starbase. I know this is a dream patch, but players need more reasons to buy dilithium from other players, and players in general need more to spend their dilithium on. What better then space home maker.
No matter, my opinions haven't changed.
Fleet development should continue, but I don't believe making the fleet system look like our current Reputation system is an ideal solution.
Regardless of what my opinions are. I doubt we will see any solution being introduced for some time. The developers need to first determine a proper course of action and then try to fit it into their (likely crowded) development schedule.
Just gonna have to sit back and ride this out for a while.