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With the collapse of the DILEX, I can no longer defend this game's business model
thegrandnagus1
Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
Ever since the switch to F2P, I have always defended STO's business model as one of, if not "the" best in the MMO industry.
Yes, there are purchases, and yes there is gambling. But whenever a person tried to say the game "isn't really free" I have always pointed out that because of the dilex you can get anything you want for free as long as you are willing to put in the time to earn the dil to trade for zen.
Even with lockbox ships, the fact that these could be bought on the exchange for EC meant that if you were willing to grind dil, or even spend real money to buy keys to sell for EC, you could get these ships without actually gambling yourself.
Unfortunately, the recent collapse of the dilex has destroyed those arguments. You can no longer realistically trade dil for zen. And many lockbox ships are no longer available on the exchange, as the prices have inflated past the exchange limit.
As a LTS from beta, I've spent a lot on this game. I'm not quitting, and I will still play the few pieces of content that drop throughout the year. But unfortunately it's no longer a business model I can defend.
Yes, there are purchases, and yes there is gambling. But whenever a person tried to say the game "isn't really free" I have always pointed out that because of the dilex you can get anything you want for free as long as you are willing to put in the time to earn the dil to trade for zen.
Even with lockbox ships, the fact that these could be bought on the exchange for EC meant that if you were willing to grind dil, or even spend real money to buy keys to sell for EC, you could get these ships without actually gambling yourself.
Unfortunately, the recent collapse of the dilex has destroyed those arguments. You can no longer realistically trade dil for zen. And many lockbox ships are no longer available on the exchange, as the prices have inflated past the exchange limit.
As a LTS from beta, I've spent a lot on this game. I'm not quitting, and I will still play the few pieces of content that drop throughout the year. But unfortunately it's no longer a business model I can defend.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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I'm honestly surprised they haven't considered that.
Same boat man..
I have played this game for years and obtained everything I wanted by trading Dilithium for Zen and making up a percentage of the purchase with cash. I have many Promo/Lockbox ships that I obtained either for no money, or very little money. Yeah, it took time.. sure.. I got maybe 1 or 2 'Grand Prize' ships a year, but I got them. And of course, I always had the option to spend more if I wanted something faster, but the game had a good model for me. It let me get anything I wanted and decide exactly how much of the purchase I wanted to supplement with Cash. Now that the only way to get anything is 100% cash.. I'm done. I still log in, I do my daily stuff and chat a bit with fleet mates, but for all intents and purposes, I have stopped playing STO and it will likely remain that way. The fact that they sell power which cannot be obtained by any method other then spending money means the game is what is referred to as 'Pay2Win.' Yes, I know.. there is no real PvP so you're not 'winning' against other players, but it's a general label for games where higher levels of power or progress are paywalled and STO currently fits that description.
We have heard from the Devs that they have some great plan to fix it.. obviously, that has proven to not be true. They not only have shown no interest in fixing this problem, but have continued to exacerbate it with the constant barrage of lock box and promo items combined with sales. Simply put, the 'Play2Earn' aspects of Star Trek Online are sadly dead.. and it's a huge loss for the game.
I'd agree if there was a required monthly sub like WoW or Elder Scrolls, but there really is zero cost to play all story content and TFOs, just not with the cosmetics you want.
I'm fine with putting money into the game because I enjoy it and want them to continue adding more content of all kinds. I'm fine with people who don't support the game (except by being in game to fill out queues) being second-class citizens. Let them eat cake
That doesn't mean I don't support efforts to add dil and EC sinks if Cryptic ever gets around to it, I just don't feel the business model is wrong / bad / evil because dil > zen sales are now increasingly backlogged.
What I disagree with is the methods currently employed to achieve that objective. We have seen very expensive bundles introduced to the game that many (myself included) initially supported as a method of replacing Gamble Mechanics. Instead, we have seen the Gamble Boxes remain along side the several hundred dollar packs all coupled with the removal of the ability to earn anything through game play.
I have financially supported this game since 2014 because I liked what they were doing. The game felt fair to everyone, it felt like everything was obtainable to everyone and that big spenders only gained the ability to get things faster. I was fine with that, I didn't mind waiting and spending less so I went that avenue. Now, all methods other then paying through the nose are null and void.
Rather you are a pure free to play or a whale.. this is a bad thing for the game and it's future. The fact that it's not being addressed is frankly ridiculous and negligent on the part of the developers.
Yes I'd agree with you as well. Today people have more toons than they did 2, 4, or 6 years ago. So while they can refine a bit more DIL, many like myself also use that DIL on every toon often for upgrades, or several other things. Still people can sell DIL if they want, it's just now there's more sellers than buyers, so got to be patient and wait several days; perhaps up to a week or so.
Still think it be wise to increase all Fleet Tier 3 Holdings out to Tier 4, expanding one a year as well as something like the suggestion below.
Keep in mind that at the point the Dil Exchange crashed, PWE and by extension Cryptic was deep in the throws of an acquisition, that we did not know about. There was likely a policy of "Touch everything very gently and try not to break anything until the check clears". Which is kind of understandable in that sort of situation. The real question is now that Cryptic is administratively under Gearbox, the corporate org charts are stabilizing, and people are moving forward into 2022 under new ownership, what solutions they might come up with?
So the fact that they have done nothing other then a few short run vanity bits for dill sales a couple times... Tells me things are running exactly as they intend.
Perhaps that can be blamed on them trying to make the books look as good as possible as they where up for sale.
I'm pretty sure they are going to leave it as is until after the new owners have taken over... and I don't believe the sale finalizes until Feb sometime.
We can hope the new owners see the value in the model as it was running... and instruct Cryptic to do the things required. Who knows though... I'm not sure Cryptic really knows what exactly the direction will be at this point.
Like the Nagus I have been of like mind defending STOs model. I too believe it to be the best in the business. Yes if you have $300 ship packs someone is footing the bill even if you pay for it in months of daily grind. Still that was an option... nothing paywalled. That isn't really true in the games current state. I mean you can still farm Dil... and you can still sit and wait a month for your Dil to get converted. For now anyway...
The danger for STO now is that many of us are going into maintenance mode. I'm not leaving, I'll log and do whatever the next event is. I'm not play for hours though... I'm probably not going to bother working the exchange or chatting in public chats. If many of the long time long hour players do the same... their whales are going to have fewer and fewer things to do. (or people to show off for) STO has been attracting new players surprisingly (to me anyway) I'm not sure how many of them end up staying and becoming the hard core background noise that keeps whales playing though.
No point in belabouring in great detail what they could do to fix the exchange... they know. Running it aground was part of the plan... I just hope they know how to right the ship if the new folks give the go ahead. In the mean time plenty of games I haven't touched this year... lots of best of lists to find right now to see what I missed.
Not sure if I'm a fan of this. At this point all I see this accomplishing is increasing my own grind and dilithium costs to compensate for a pretty casual gang of fleet players. They are the only ones left.
Another reason I'm not a fan is that if what I grind in-game isn't enough to cover costs for these new tiers then it's back to Zen to dil again for Fleet use. That ship has definitely sailed. The Colony holding was enough for a lifetime on it's own.
I really think Fleets have already done their part in helping provide balance to the dilex at this point.
I don't see much happening with fleets until other aspects of the game improve...
All I've really wanted for a couple years now is to get together for some challenging and inspirational gameplay. The kind that isn't too popular with pugs right now. The kind that makes you carefully check your gear before hand and makes you glad that you did. Sadly this isn't a realistic wish at this time and is something that continues to get more infrequent.
Still waiting for some of the proceeds of these well priced uber bundles to be returned to the game in the form of new and challenging content that inspires players to be the best that they can be. This is the sort of thing that helps balance the dilex.
If you get people having enough fun they might not even wait for upgrade weekends for some items. Having fun energizes things... even spending.
The apathetic game play currently being promoted exacerbates dilex issues and is short sighted at best imho as the only thrill is the next shiny or saving up for a new gizmo with very little in the way of personal or team accomplishment.
Like some other players I log in, do my thing, and fulfill my responsibilities but in many respects I'm left scratching my head.
I truly hope the new folks can up their game, not my costs.
I understand this point, but with respect.. I don't accept it. The Dilithium Exchange rate has been a problem for a very long time, people started sending up red flags years ago that the value of Zen was far outstripping the value of Dilthium and that the continued existence of the exchange was untenable. They were met with silence and the usual level of developer 'hand wave' it's just 'a minority on the forums' B.S. We are in this situation because the developers simply don't listen. This all started long before the Gearbox acquisition, but I will concede that the acquisition might have prevented any real action over the last few months.
This happens every time this issue comes up. People that are not fleet leaders proposing to solve the problem by trying to tax fleet leaders. Adding Fleet Holdings is not a fix to this problem, and even if it was, it's not permanent. Eventually, the holdings get filled and we're back here again. Adding fleet holdings drains Dilithium from fleet leaders and does nothing to the average player. A new fleet holding will not fix this issue, it's been explained over and over but people don't listen. They go with this 'idea' because it sounds like an easy fix when it's really just a bad idea.
It feels that way, because that's how it is. Which is why, like you, I have moved on to other games. I have found many other games refreshing in the way they're not constantly hounding me to buy something or giving me events that will never be repeated. It's a nice change of pace from how Cryptic does things.
They neglected the value aspect, the online "massive" multiplayer experience, which proper MMOs and other online games do provide to keep the time spent in game with the items, progression, learning, and skill acquired always enjoyable.
Long ago I've stopped spending a penny in this game seeing its obvious direction and stagnation. I have fun elsewhere and continue to seek it elsewhere, and my bit of optional cash there feels well deserved to those developers who created something incredible even if it's not without its large share of problems that come with online massive multiplayer requirements.
STO is at the point where it's hard to justify continuing the minimal grind to squeeze out enjoying whatever's left of it on a gameplay background that's next to void.
Folk asking for a quick fix need to step back and take a reality check. A 'quick fix' was never possible, especially with the time-frame certain folk expect. Whilst, yes, the Dil-Ex maxing has been an issue for a time, with Gearbox acquiring PWE most likely the reason for the apparent 'lack of effort', ideas have been floated around and as Kael says REPEATEDLY, it'll take time to program whatever 'panacea' they have already chosen.
There is a case to be made for doing something for the longer term players such as proper EXPLORATION @ambassadorkael#6946 , and we need to 'advance time' in-game to allow for it before the latest 'Big Bad', but I'm still happy with the content that is pumped out. Seems people think that producing more episodes that in most other years is still 'lack of content' and that over 100+ hours of episodic content is 'lack of content', I mean, Christ, this out-strips most AAA games ever produced!
Saying that, there is a deliberate need to slow things down. We're coming to the end of the run of T6 updates, within the next 2 years at current pace. February's 'Minimum Requirements' means they're working on fully updating the game to 64Bit, probably meaning a huge engine upgrade (which would explain the mass push on Mudd's Bundles). With all the new TV content being pushed, there is no longer a 'foreseeable' limit on storylines Cryptic can now work on.
Going back to 'player holdings', the most obvious appartment idea is a sound investment. Moving further on, they could introduce Ships which require 'investment' to improve it's abilities further, but on a 'per ship' basis, unlike the endeavour system, but they should do this after completing the T6 updates. Adding 'Starfleet' approved modular design ethics so folk don't make absurdly stupid sized parts is also an ovious way to go. I'm not calling this T7, but it's a conversation that probably is happening.
The DilEx issue hasn't altered my continued enjoyment of the game and it's easier and faster than ever to be 'competitive'. We get 3 chances per year, at least, to get a T6 ship, so the game is still extremely accessible to F2P players and equipment choices are so varied, you effectively don't need ANY Zen. I really can't agree with most of Nagus' argument because of this.
A player does not need lockbox ship or any lockbox content to play STO. The same can be said for Zen store items. All the gear you need can be obtained by just playing the game. Joining a fleet opens up additional opportunities to get excellent gear for free. All it requires is to spend time just playing the game.
I consider all the lockbox items and Zen store items as more premium and cosmetic content that should be paid for to support the game. It is not needed, but adds some color and additional areas to spark interest. I feel if one wants the premium content, they should expect to pay something for it.
I have not used the dilithium exchange tor zen. I find I use all my dilithium up supporting my fleet, upgrading gear, or spending in the reputations store to get the different sets of gear there.
I really do not experience FOMO. If there is an event offering a reward that interests me, I do it. Otherwise I sit it out. I find most event rewards as a nice to have, but not essential or exciting. I do find it is great T6 ships are offered as event rewards a few times a year. Those T6 ships require no purchase, just do the event.
Same thing with storylines. There was that recent livestream by some trek actor, that featured one of STO's producers or w/e his job title is, and the Cryptic guy was talking how doing anything plot related from the new shows has been massively difficult due to the fact they are so narrative based, and have like no time gaps between episodes. Which means theres pretty much no lose ends to pick up on in STO. I can't really think of anything from Lower Decks, Picard, or DSC S3/4, thats really a lose end to pick up besides maybe the machine race from Picard. the new shows have given us a lot of ships and gadgets for sure, but if they had more story potential I would think we would have seen more by now rather then a handful of DSC content updates, that then dropped back into the cross-show Klingon Civil War stuff.
Windows 7 has been killed by Microsoft folks. Officially supporting a OS no longer even supported by the company that made it is silly. The technical angle of supporting a dead OS is one component, however there is also a legal issue with doing so. Win7 is dead anyone still using it should move on. Companies are starting to block support for it with good reason.
Don’t worry, everyone gets it save for one person that keeps posting a wild theory as a fact.
We all know that there is no new engine coming, only one person thinks otherwise and they base that theory on absolutely nothing.
It also has nothing to do with the Dilithium exchange except for the fact that they are putting as much effort into this mythological engine revamp as they are into fixing the Dilithium exchange…
None.
But that has more to do with them rebranding the same stuff and re-selling it under a slightly different name or with some very minor tweaks (Legendary packs, Mudd packs, and so on). Which of course did play a role in the crashing of the DilEX.
Even worse is that it's a bad deal for those who already have something - but a restricted version of that something! - because they supported the game in the past.
If I have a certain ship, say a Voth Rampart cruiser, on one toon... I can now pay the same insane amount of money it already cost me if I want to use it on other characters.
They're basically asking me to pay twice because they're so late with giving this specific product the same characteristics as almost all other ships: account-wide usability. It feels unfair. I have tons of lockbox ships, I've paid large amounts to support the game when I got them - at the very least they should give people a way to now get the full product (i.e., including account-wide use) without having to buy the exact same product again. And being stuck with a character-bound, valueless copy on one toon.
I've already adapted my spending. I would've gotten the Saturn class for example, even if I had to burn a couple of hundred euro's on it. It would've been no problem for me. But now I'm not going to get it. Why would I, when I know that a better version (i.e., an account-wide unlocked one) will probably end up in the C-store sooner or later?
Offering promo ships as account-wide unlocks was a good idea. What wasn't good, is how they entirely forgot to offer a good deal to those who already paid more or less the same price for an inferior product (cause being restricted in use).
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
We've asked for "unlock tokens" for lock box and promo pack ships in the past. Cryptic should consider offering them for at least all of the ships that have been added to the Mudd's choice packs.
It also acts as a motivational black hole if effort within the game cannot be converted into items purchased with Zen..
IMO a solution for the imbalance of the DilEx is needed. (a.k.a. Dilithium drain required)
But, like others, I have never begrudged the game making money, and back when they actually put effort into providing value for your money I have quite happily paid cash for my Zen in large quantities over the years (5 x 10th Anniversary pack, 5 x Romulan Legacy, 5 x Gamma Vanguard etc.).
That largely stopped when the lockbox approach gained precedence, and pretty much died altogether with the Mudd bundles and the way they are structured, along with the heavily 'padded' and often mediocre legendary and anniversary packs that followed the 10th. I have not bought any Zen in some time now and cannot see that changing again without a drastic improvement in the cost/value on offer and a reduced focus on massive bundles that are priced out of too many players reach - but even with a change in ownership I do not hold out much hope of things changing for the better.
They've chosen 75 days of event grinding as the time to gain a promo pack ship.
And that was a great event with a generous reward. They deserve credit for that.
With the collapse of the ability to earn the most desirable items through game play, perhaps more events of this type are the answer. Since they're determined to ram events down our throats anyway, maybe it's time to up the rewards in order to give people a way to earn more desirable options.
A new event currency or prestige type reward might not be a bad idea, especially if they're going to continue to ignore the exchange issue. That currency should be usable to obtain lockbox/promo/lobi rewards.. that would be a nice addition.
If you want the new shiny today you pay cash, if you can wait then you can pay time instead.
This part of the idea I hate with the fire of a thousand suns.
Being punished for not logging in is too far in my opinion. If they want to give daily rewards to people for logging in, that's fine.. I get it. Taking away things I have 'earned' because I am not currently active in the game would make me avoid the system entirely.
I like a lot of your idea and find it really well thought out, but this part is a huge negative for me. Players do not like feeling like they are being punished and having things removed from them definitely creates a feeling of punishment.